[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[UdjinM6]

Smooth. You say you own some Dash, then you must think there are good points. Care to name any?

I only own a small amount at the moment, so I wouldn't represent my holdings a serious investment position.

Asking about good points is a fair question, though. In no particular order:

Releases tend to, you know, get released. The last major release was a significant upgrade and seemed to have relatively few roll out problems. That speaks to the ability of the team to deliver.

It has low inflation, so in a weak market (one driven more by supply considerations than consistent demand) on might expect less price weakness from dumping of new supply than otherwise. I'm not sure about this though, as one can look to something like Nxt which has zero inflation and has still performed terribly, and Dash hasn't retained value all that well either. Nxt lacks Dash's structural incentive to hold though so that may make a difference (you can stake, but the rewards are negligible).

The InstantX system, while flawed, is like most "zero conf" systems in that is sufficient for casual transitions, and is deployed. If there were actually a lot of routine commerce going on with Dash that would be very nice. There isn't, but the feature being there means one obstacle has been removed.

Likewise Darksend is also not perfect, but again for a degree of casual privacy it exists and mostly works. This could until recently be viewed as a clear improvement on Bitcoin, although JoinMarket has come on the scene and is probably about as good as Darksend (which is to say both are flawed, but the flaws are different), so I'm not sure this is true any more. Darksend is still a bit more mature, as JoinMarket hasn't been integrated into any wallets yet, though I do expect that to happen.

In general, I don't like the idea of investing in what is basically a one-man asset, but as leaders go, Evan seems to do a good job and I would rate his day-to-day leadership as apparently favorable (I don't see everything "behind the scenes" of course so I can't say absolutely this is true). I think Dash would do well to develop a broader team of visible people with both leadership and technical skills though.

The idea of (large) coin holders voting to allocate a budget is worth experimenting with.

It has a high market cap ranking which has its own value in terms of visibility.

As a hedge it may be mathematically worth owning some even if you don't think it will succeed (though you do need to believe there is at least some change it will appreciate in value, which I do). There aren't really any other vehicles with directly comparable properties.

That's a well-weighted position. Thank you.

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[bigrcanada]

Smooth. You say you own some Dash, then you must think there are good points. Care to name any?

I only own a small amount at the moment, so I wouldn't represent my holdings a serious investment position.

Asking about good points is a fair question, though. In no particular order:

Releases tend to, you know, get released. The last major release was a significant upgrade and seemed to have relatively few roll out problems. That speaks to the ability of the team to deliver.

It has low inflation, so in a weak market (one driven more by supply considerations than consistent demand) on might expect less price weakness from dumping of new supply than otherwise. I'm not sure about this though, as one can look to something like Nxt which has zero inflation and has still performed terribly, and Dash hasn't retained value all that well either. Nxt lacks Dash's structural incentive to hold though so that may make a difference (you can stake, but the rewards are negligible).

The InstantX system, while flawed, is like most "zero conf" systems in that is sufficient for casual transitions, and is deployed. If there were actually a lot of routine commerce going on with Dash that would be very nice. There isn't, but the feature being there means one obstacle has been removed.

Likewise Darksend is also not perfect, but again for a degree of casual privacy it exists and mostly works. This could until recently be viewed as a clear improvement on Bitcoin, although JoinMarket has come on the scene and is probably about as good as Darksend (which is to say both are flawed, but the flaws are different), so I'm not sure this is true any more. Darksend is still a bit more mature, as JoinMarket hasn't been integrated into any wallets yet, though I do expect that to happen.

In general, I don't like the idea of investing in what is basically a one-man asset, but as leaders go, Evan seems to do a good job and I would rate his day-to-day leadership as apparently favorable (I don't see everything "behind the scenes" of course so I can't say absolutely this is true). I think Dash would do well to develop a broader team of visible people with both leadership and technical skills though.

The idea of (large) coin holders voting to allocate a budget is worth experimenting with.

It has a high market cap ranking which has its own value in terms of visibility.

As a hedge it may be mathematically worth owning some even if you don't think it will succeed (though you do need to believe there is at least some change it will appreciate in value, which I do). There aren't really any other vehicles with directly comparable properties.

 Now that we are being civil,  you bring valid and worth while points... Things I too agree with.  I too believe that DASH is not perfect and is far from 100% complete. But I would say that there are very hard working people working on it.   That's a start. 

[dihydrogenmonoxide]

Smooth. You say you own some Dash, then you must think there are good points. Care to name any?

[...]

Releases tend to, you know, get released. The last major release was a significant upgrade and seemed to have relatively few roll out problems. That speaks to the ability of the team to deliver.

[...]

Thanks for the appreciation, we had a hard time improving our test and release process - and there is still room for improvements.

The last rollout was indeed very smooth (no pun intended) and we are looking forward to continue to deliver high quality releases.

Holger (aka flare)

[bigrcanada]

Hi Ceti, good afternoon...I find it's important that when there are those that point out things about others...when they themselves have those similar faults, that we point them out.  I want no grudges with others on these forums myself.  I do not believe in the constant aggressive and abusive trolling that certain members part take in.  It hurts everyone...

And though there are those that think this kind of activity might in some way be a method of influencing potential investors and or the curious in a negative way....its proven ineffective in the long run.    IMHO

[TanteStefana2]

Has anything changed? First post says there will be 14-18 mil coins? I was sure there would be about 20 mil. And now 14?

On this page it still says ~22M: https://www.dashpay.io/specifications/

It is impossible to say what the final number of coins will be.  Dash has a flexible reward system.  If mining wanes because it's unprofitable, the rewards go up according the the formula posted on the OP.  The Budget system could lower that, but a lot of the estimate is based on the lowest rewards possible and a possible "high maximum" which is a complete guess.

The reason for this system was to be sure that if interest in mining waned, the reward would go up and make it interesting to miners again before hash drops so much as to make the system vulnerable.  Everything in Dash is kind of on a checks and balance system, it's flexible.  That's why it's always been hard to answer the question "how many coins will be mined?"  To get more of a handle on that, Evan implemented the 7% drop in rewards every year (including minimum rewards) So now we at least have a probable range of final number of coins around 150 years from now.  It was also a minimal change to the system as far as the near term user's experience.

Even so, as long as Dash is around, it'll probably be making rewards 1000 years from now, at the duff or micro duff level, thus still creating dash, so technically, we still can't say how many

Originally, Evan had no estimates on total number of coins, but the community kept asking.  So he calculated 100 years out, and estimated an average hash rate that he thought would be good and wrote a "maximum" 81 or so million.  Then people started realizing it was not calculable and demanded he change it so there was a limit.  So Evan created the 7% drop each year, as it was minimally invasive and that "calculated" out for Evan at 22 million coins.  I argued that it would probably hug the minimal reward and be more like 16 million.  They felt that the hash rate would probably not stay so strong.  I think my predictions have been more accurate   But in the end, there is and can not be that accurate an answer so there is no point to changing the original estimate.  You'll have to wait 150 years to see for yourself.

[DrkLvr_]

so technically, we still can't say how many

If you are following the conversation you will know that this is the latest information:

Well, at least you've counted the emission from launch until now twice. 13.6 is the total for the entire series, so the 6.6 (or at least the part of it that was created according to the current formula) is already included

No, I didn't.
13.6 is the total for the serie from the first decline (when reward become 5*13/14) till infinity (not till 2050 because we used to say "total supply").
I can't count the emission when there were bugs. That's why I counted total supply as current emission (6kk) + supply from the first decline till infinity. So only the part of this year from decline till now was counted twice and that's 0.7kk approx (min).

P.S. "// yearly decline of production by 7.1% per year, projected 21.3M coins max by year 2050." - here goes "max"

Yeah, sorry, I corrected my post while you were replying, here's my adjusted version for readability:

Instead of the current supply, you would have to add the supply at block height 210240 to the series, which is 5 million according to

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/block.dws?00000000000ae5b7e33558e0601f8f1c5cacc6dbc48ac5f90289d71609fa6355.htm

So that would bring the lower bound to approx. 18.6. Theoretically 10% of the future supply may not get issued since it it reserved for the bugeting system and if there are no proposals, those 10% would not get created. But even then, total supply would be above 14.

The minimum will appear to be 18.6 millions, while the first page state 14-18 million.  As normal there is no clarification about this from the Dash developers because they do not answer questions when they do not like the answers

[afbitcoins]

Smooth. You say you own some Dash, then you must think there are good points. Care to name any?

I only own a small amount at the moment, so I wouldn't represent my holdings a serious investment position.

Asking about good points is a fair question, though. In no particular order:

Releases tend to, you know, get released. The last major release was a significant upgrade and seemed to have relatively few roll out problems. That speaks to the ability of the team to deliver.

It has low inflation, so in a weak market (one driven more by supply considerations than consistent demand) on might expect less price weakness from dumping of new supply than otherwise. I'm not sure about this though, as one can look to something like Nxt which has zero inflation and has still performed terribly, and Dash hasn't retained value all that well either. Nxt lacks Dash's structural incentive to hold though so that may make a difference (you can stake, but the rewards are negligible).

The InstantX system, while flawed, is like most "zero conf" systems in that is sufficient for casual transitions, and is deployed. If there were actually a lot of routine commerce going on with Dash that would be very nice. There isn't, but the feature being there means one obstacle has been removed.

Likewise Darksend is also not perfect, but again for a degree of casual privacy it exists and mostly works. This could until recently be viewed as a clear improvement on Bitcoin, although JoinMarket has come on the scene and is probably about as good as Darksend (which is to say both are flawed, but the flaws are different), so I'm not sure this is true any more. Darksend is still a bit more mature, as JoinMarket hasn't been integrated into any wallets yet, though I do expect that to happen.

In general, I don't like the idea of investing in what is basically a one-man asset, but as leaders go, Evan seems to do a good job and I would rate his day-to-day leadership as apparently favorable (I don't see everything "behind the scenes" of course so I can't say absolutely this is true). I think Dash would do well to develop a broader team of visible people with both leadership and technical skills though.

The idea of (large) coin holders voting to allocate a budget is worth experimenting with.

It has a high market cap ranking which has its own value in terms of visibility.

As a hedge it may be mathematically worth owning some even if you don't think it will succeed (though you do need to believe there is at least some change it will appreciate in value, which I do). There aren't really any other vehicles with directly comparable properties.

Thanks for sharing some positives smooth. I'd also add the new budget system and governance as things I like myself

[TanteStefana2]

....please explain me how.....

I find it amusing that trolls claim the system is broken, yet they don't understand how the network actually works.

Try looking at the open source code. Why not even launch your own implementation and try to break it - or should that be, confirm it is broken  

No, break it here!!!  Go on, there's a nice reward waiting for you!  Go get it!!!

Anyway, this is Day 5 (or is it 6?) that I've been trying to upgrade to Windows 10!  Ugh!  Pain in my assets!

[smoothie]

Has anything changed? First post says there will be 14-18 mil coins? I was sure there would be about 20 mil. And now 14?

On this page it still says ~22M: https://www.dashpay.io/specifications/

Yes
it would be nice if one of the devs could explain this.

Devs here don't explain anything. Just lies from these devs... lies and changes. From 84 million coins to 20-22 mllion to 14 now

BEware the deceivers 

Now THAT is a LIE. If you want to read DASH devs are the best in crypto when it comes to explaining. They do not reply to trolls.
 I welcome you to my ignore list!

Yes i understood very early that to disagree here means troll  No one answers questions from Dash.. always only changes to benefit the developers

Exactly what I've been saying for a few months now ^

If you disagree with the Dash peeps you are a "troll".

[AzzAz]

Has anything changed? First post says there will be 14-18 mil coins? I was sure there would be about 20 mil. And now 14?

On this page it still says ~22M: https://www.dashpay.io/specifications/

Yes
it would be nice if one of the devs could explain this.

Devs here don't explain anything. Just lies from these devs... lies and changes. From 84 million coins to 20-22 mllion to 14 now

BEware the deceivers 

Now THAT is a LIE. If you want to read DASH devs are the best in crypto when it comes to explaining. They do not reply to trolls.
 I welcome you to my ignore list!

Yes i understood very early that to disagree here means troll  No one answers questions from Dash.. always only changes to benefit the developers

Exactly what I've been saying for a few months now ^

If you disagree with the Dash peeps you are a "troll".

Troll answers to troll :-)
Yes smoothie, you are a troll

[smoothie]

Has anything changed? First post says there will be 14-18 mil coins? I was sure there would be about 20 mil. And now 14?

On this page it still says ~22M: https://www.dashpay.io/specifications/

Yes
it would be nice if one of the devs could explain this.

Devs here don't explain anything. Just lies from these devs... lies and changes. From 84 million coins to 20-22 mllion to 14 now

BEware the deceivers  

Now THAT is a LIE. If you want to read DASH devs are the best in crypto when it comes to explaining. They do not reply to trolls.
 I welcome you to my ignore list!

Yes i understood very early that to disagree here means troll   No one answers questions from Dash.. always only changes to benefit the developers

Exactly what I've been saying for a few months now ^

If you disagree with the Dash peeps you are a "troll".

Troll answers to troll :-)
Yes smoothie, you are a troll

Your definition of the word "troll" is so watered down to the point that TROLL is defined as:

1. Someone who disagrees with you.

2. Someone who posts something you don't like.

3. Someone who questions (in a logical and rational manner) the dash developer/community.

It's like the word Christian so many people say they are Christian these days but it is so watered down.

It's looking more like a Religion here than anything else. Honest perspective.

Your usage of the word "TROLL" is so watered down there is no meaning to it anymore.

To the point that the people who are using the word TROLL fall within to the set of parameters defined by their own sub conscience and are therefore TROLLs as well.

[qwizzie]

....please explain me how.....

fud fud fud

No, break it here!!!  Go on, there's a nice reward waiting for you!  Go get it!!!

Anyway, this is Day 5 (or is it 6?) that I've been trying to upgrade to Windows 10!  Ugh!  Pain in my assets!

You are upgrading to Windows 10?

Wow uh you realize how many privacy issues are integrated into Windows 10?

To all thinking about installing Windows 10 :

Just make sure you dont use the default Express Setup, if you choose Custom Setup every privacy-sensitive part can be set to "off" during installation
(with "off" i mean no privacy-sensitive data to be sent to Microsoft)

http://www.howtogeek.com/224352/what%E2%80%99s-the-difference-between-windows-10%E2%80%99s-express-or-custom-setup/
  

[the-baker]

It is impossible to say what the final number of coins will be.  Dash has a flexible reward system.  If mining wanes because it's unprofitable, the rewards go up according the the formula posted on the OP.  The Budget system could lower that, but a lot of the estimate is based on the lowest rewards possible and a possible "high maximum" which is a complete guess.

Still, those are the boundaries between which the actual number of coins will be. So if we know the minimum reward is 5 and the maximum is 25, the final number will be somewhere between 18.6 and 73.3 million. I think there's a limit of 20 million (or something in that region) defined somewhere in the code, so the upper boundary is actually lower, but the 14 million from the OP don't really work out.

[TanteStefana2]

You are upgrading to Windows 10?

Wow uh you realize how many privacy issues are integrated into Windows 10?

You got something to hide, or?

You try playing steam games on linux?  Some work, most don't  Also, though I'm satisfied with windows 7, I don't want to be like my programmer sister and husband.  Sister wants to go back to Windows 3.1 and Husband never wants to leave XP.  I just want to keep up with newer popular operating systems.  And 10 has good reviews, so why not

For security, there's linux, even linux tails.

[eduffield]

It is impossible to say what the final number of coins will be.  Dash has a flexible reward system.  If mining wanes because it's unprofitable, the rewards go up according the the formula posted on the OP.  The Budget system could lower that, but a lot of the estimate is based on the lowest rewards possible and a possible "high maximum" which is a complete guess.

Still, those are the boundaries between which the actual number of coins will be. So if we know the minimum reward is 5 and the maximum is 25, the final number will be somewhere between 18.6 and 73.3 million. I think there's a limit of 20 million (or something in that region) defined somewhere in the code, so the upper boundary is actually lower, but the 14 million from the OP don't really work out.

I just updated the OP and the website, I'm not entirely sure where 14M came from but it's completely wrong. I did a projection and it comes out to about 18.9M here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RpLd87PTs65sz8USrrXwGRoVGVbzaC-nunErEtGSJoE/edit#gid=0

* 6.1M includes coins created through the end of this year
** 2017 is calculated to have 5.5DASH per block (which is what we've been averaging this year)
*** 2018+ assumes the reward will be pegged to 5DASH per block (which is likely)

According to this calculation, we should stop coin emission near 2300  

[kointrend]

Dash to speak and exhibit at the 3rd Latin American Bitcoin Conference - Mexico



We are very excited to announce that we will be speaking and exhibiting at the, highly renowned, 3rd Latin American Bitcoin Conference
this December in Mexico City. Last year the event took place in Rio de Janeiro. Past speakers of this event include Erik Vorhees,
Andreas Antonopolus, Tony Gallipi and many others important members of the industry.

Please check the details at: www.labitconf.com

At laBITconf Dash will be an exhibitor with its own booth. We will be presenting Dash to business representatives, industry experts
and potential end users, and giving an update about Evolution as we prepare for the Miami keynote. We will be sponsoring a booth
to exhibit Dash and talk directly to as many people as possible.

Anyone from the community that is able to come out and help with the conference please let us know on the forums or Slack.
See you in Mexico!




https://dashtalk.org/threads/dash-to-speak-and-exhibit-at-the-3rd-latin-american-bitcoin-conference-mexico.6505/

Andreas Antonopolus will be there too.

https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/660835429881503745

[smoothie]

If you're worried about Windows 10 snooping around too much, this is for you: http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

Thanks for the correction Evan, trolls were going on overdrive by what was probably a typo/brainfart/failed copypaste  

Right but because Windows 10 is closed source you can't know for sure that there isn't any hidden processes logging your information.

Looks like Windows/Microsoft is going the way of helping governments spy on its citizens.

Might as well go buy a cabin in the woods, buy a typewriter and make some wooden shoe boxes to put things in to send to your friends.

After checking the public records for your ownership of your property and recorded address with your full name....

The powers that be will fly over your house or drive by it with body heat detection/scanner (etc) that can see what you are doing through concrete/wood walls of your "cabin".  

LOL

Go back to the drawing board and come up with a better "solution" 

[tungfa]

Blockchain Weekly Recap 10-31-2015

http://dcebrief.com/blockchain-weekly-recap-10-31-2015/

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Does anyone talk about Dash here anymore? 

[Bridgewater]

It doesn't matter wether you have something to hide or not privacy is important. If you have nothing to hide do you walk around naked all the time, can you email me a copy of your bank statements. You have nothing to hide.

sorry ranting. grr, that nothing to hide line really winds me up. privacy is important and I will avoid windows 10 as long as i can. try linux its much better.

I think the lack of privacy is much more fundamental and impactful than the description of walking around naked, curtains on windows, or even Snowden's comparison to free speech.

"You don't need privacy if you have nothing to hide" is a socialistic trap that, when taken to its logical extreme, will reveal a belief that there exists no such thing as free will and individuality--or worse, a motive to cripple those things (admitting they exist) and enslave.

Guess how much innovation and free-market capitalism will occur when you cannot make deals anymore.  

Without privacy, you can have no gainful interaction with other individuals, i.e. contracts, which are the essence of commerce and civilized society itself.

They can yell "you have nothing to hide" and "because terrorism" 'till the cows come home. There is never an excuse to destroy money, limit productivity and demonize risk-taking.  The more they try, the more inspiration Dash and other projects like it will have to restore individual power by offering truly fungible money and other decentralized freedoms.