[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[child_harold]

1) so it takes 4x as long to mix? (how long is that?)

Depends on how many people are currently also anonymizing, how many coins you are mixing, etc. The more people there are using it the faster it is. Could take couple of hours, or could take a day. The denomination sizes will be changed (larger denom sizes will be removed) so I think it will make the mixing faster.

2) and tx fees maybe are 4x? (iirc a DS payment costs ~$0.11, so would this mean $0.44?)

Fees are random (this changed just recently), and I guess depend on how many coins you are mixing as well. Maybe someone else will know this one for sure. But obviously you're more likely to hit a fee in 8 tries than just 2.

3) blockchain bloat? I thought MN mixes occurred off-blockchain, no?

Currently it has to store the transactions after each mixing round. Haven't seen any discussion about this but I think it's because people can close their wallets after mixing some rounds while there are still more rounds to go. If the transactions weren't recorded after each round, you'd have to start all over from the beginning (and also those mixing with you) if you close the wallet before it has gone through all desired rounds. This could be something where more optimization can be done in the future.

WOW!

Thank you for your time and consideration.
I will muse your reply in my sleep (post-hence)

Be seeing you.

EDIT: a transition to an 8 chain default would seem to have a negative impact on user experience based upon this analysis. Waiting 24hrs seems excessive.

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[Ignition75]

I'd be for that but not sure how that would work with exchanges and pools.

QT client default ON, darkcoind default OFF.

Then you wouldn't be able to say it's automatic or mandatory if there would still be an option for those to get around having to do it from the start.

I think just having DS on by default in the QT client would greatly speed the mixing process. How many regular users are going to mess about with it or run the daemon instead? Why would they? DRK is a private coin, if you don't care about privacy there's BTC.

i like to have choices and the way Darksend is setup right now it gives me choices. What yr proposing (or whats being proposed) is basicly converting Darksend into an Apple
rolemodel with very few choices... i dont like it.

I understand your desire to have choices, but comparing DRK to Apple is fighting talk.  

Default on in the QT client benefits all DS users and doesn't do anyone any harm, if you want to use Darkcoin transparently (say you're just interested in IX and don't care about privacy) you could click a button and do so. Seems reasonable to me?

What seems odd to me is having it OFF by default. It suggests a lack of confidence in the process. Like buying a V10 Ferrari and having to go out of your way to fire up the other 9 cylinders.

Crypto will never be as big as Apple whilst the majority of Linux developers call the general public "stupid" for not being able to run a computer via a command line.  It requires a complete paradigm shift that's going to take a while to set in.

Apple are there already, which is why they are the worlds most valuable company 

[tungfa]

Coinomi Universal Wallet now supports DRK ….>
(Android)

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.coinomi.wallet
 

[wozzek23]

Crypto will never be as big as Apple whilst the majority of Linux developers call the general public "stupid" for not being able to run a computer via a command line.  It requires a complete paradigm shift that's going to take a while to set in.

While I fully understand your point that came after the "whilst" I can't resist! You will enter the history, along the lines of:

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943
"The cinema is an invention without any future." -- Luis Lumière.

[patrolman]

1) so it takes 4x as long to mix? (how long is that?)

Depends on how many people are currently also anonymizing, how many coins you are mixing, etc. The more people there are using it the faster it is. Could take couple of hours, or could take a day. The denomination sizes will be changed (larger denom sizes will be removed) so I think it will make the mixing faster.

2) and tx fees maybe are 4x? (iirc a DS payment costs ~$0.11, so would this mean $0.44?)

Fees are random (this changed just recently), and I guess depend on how many coins you are mixing as well. Maybe someone else will know this one for sure. But obviously you're more likely to hit a fee in 8 tries than just 2.

3) blockchain bloat? I thought MN mixes occurred off-blockchain, no?

Currently it has to store the transactions after each mixing round. Haven't seen any discussion about this but I think it's because people can close their wallets after mixing some rounds while there are still more rounds to go. If the transactions weren't recorded after each round, you'd have to start all over from the beginning (and also those mixing with you) if you close the wallet before it has gone through all desired rounds. This could be something where more optimization can be done in the future.

WOW!

Thank you for your time and consideration.
I will muse your reply in my sleep (post-hence)

Be seeing you.

EDIT: a transition to an 8 chain default would seem to have a negative impact on user experience based upon this analysis. Waiting 24hrs seems excessive.

If I'm not mistaken, 8 mixing rounds could be done in as few as 8 blocks. 8 blocks is about 20 minutes. One current complaint is that there are not enough users anonymising funds and therefore wait times can be a little longer than expected, especially when anonymising larger amounts. The problem with larger amounts is being addressed by reducing the number of different mixing inputs, so that those wanting to anonymise significant quantities don't necessarily have to wait around for others to anonymise significant quantities of DRK at the same time. A transition to an 8-chain default would mean more users anonymising funds at any given moment, meaning less waiting.

[patrolman]

Crypto will never be as big as Apple whilst the majority of Linux developers call the general public "stupid" for not being able to run a computer via a command line.  It requires a complete paradigm shift that's going to take a while to set in.

While I fully understand your point that came after the "whilst" I can't resist! You will enter the history, along the lines of:

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943
"The cinema is an invention without any future." -- Luis Lumière.

"By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's." -- Paul Krugman

 

[Ignition75]

Crypto will never be as big as Apple whilst the majority of Linux developers call the general public "stupid" for not being able to run a computer via a command line.  It requires a complete paradigm shift that's going to take a while to set in.

While I fully understand your point that came after the "whilst" I can't resist! You will enter the history, along the lines of:

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943
"The cinema is an invention without any future." -- Luis Lumière.

Do you remember the "We will never need more than 640kb of ram comment?"

I'm really showing my age now 

[thelonecrouton]

EDIT: a transition to an 8 chain default would seem to have a negative impact on user experience based upon this analysis. Waiting 24hrs seems excessive.

Not neccessarily true. On testnet DRK is cheap, we play with lots of it, for a user on mainnet with say a few hundred DRK, the process could be very swift.

And if DS was on by default it would be very swift indeed.

[thelonecrouton]

I understand your desire to have choices, but comparing DRK to Apple is fighting talk.  

Default on in the QT client benefits all DS users and doesn't do anyone any harm, if you want to use Darkcoin transparently (say you're just interested in IX and don't care about privacy) you could click a button and do so. Seems reasonable to me?

What seems odd to me is having it OFF by default. It suggests a lack of confidence in the process. Like buying a V10 Ferrari and having to go out of your way to fire up the other 9 cylinders.

Crypto will never be as big as Apple whilst the majority of Linux developers call the general public "stupid" for not being able to run a computer via a command line.  It requires a complete paradigm shift that's going to take a while to set in.

Apple are there already, which is why they are the worlds most valuable company  

Apple's paper marketcap is bigger than every traded company in Russia combined - ie, it's hugely, vastly, ridiculously, comically, hideously overinflated.  

[patrolman]

Speaking of Apple, there was an interesting flash crash today: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-01/how-apple-lost-one-american-airlines-market-cap-under-minute

[GhostPlayer]

Crypto will never be as big as Apple whilst the majority of Linux developers call the general public "stupid" for not being able to run a computer via a command line.  It requires a complete paradigm shift that's going to take a while to set in.

While I fully understand your point that came after the "whilst" I can't resist! You will enter the history, along the lines of:

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943
"The cinema is an invention without any future." -- Luis Lumière.

Do you remember the "We will never need more than 640kb of ram comment?"

I'm really showing my age now 

Acorn Archimedes, ZX Spectrum, Commodore 64, Amiga 2000, i386, i486, P, PII, PIII...  and so on  

[Ignition75]

Crypto will never be as big as Apple whilst the majority of Linux developers call the general public "stupid" for not being able to run a computer via a command line.  It requires a complete paradigm shift that's going to take a while to set in.

While I fully understand your point that came after the "whilst" I can't resist! You will enter the history, along the lines of:

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943
"The cinema is an invention without any future." -- Luis Lumière.

Do you remember the "We will never need more than 640kb of ram comment?"

I'm really showing my age now 

Acorn Archimedes, ZX Spectrum, Commodore 64, Amiga 2000, i386, i486, P, PII, PIII...  and so on  

I jumped in at Commodore 64 and took the Atari ST route to my first 286 

[wozzek23]

Crypto will never be as big as Apple whilst the majority of Linux developers call the general public "stupid" for not being able to run a computer via a command line.  It requires a complete paradigm shift that's going to take a while to set in.

While I fully understand your point that came after the "whilst" I can't resist! You will enter the history, along the lines of:

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943
"The cinema is an invention without any future." -- Luis Lumière.

Do you remember the "We will never need more than 640kb of ram comment?"

I'm really showing my age now 

http://www.timepassfun.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/First-Ever-Hard-Disk-Drive-5MB-Storage.jpg

[Longenecker]

FYI:

http://www.reddit.com/r/DRKCoin/comments/2nyifp/darkcoin_seriosuly_flawed_zero_anonymity_and/

[GhostPlayer]

Acorn Archimedes, ZX Spectrum, Commodore 64, Amiga 2000, i386, i486, P, PII, PIII...  and so on  

I jumped in at Commodore 64 and took the Atari ST route to my first 286  

How I wished I had crossed paths with the ST. Oh man... To this day of of the most steady MIDI clocks ever built !

[RenegadeMan]

Crypto will never be as big as Apple whilst the majority of Linux developers call the general public "stupid" for not being able to run a computer via a command line.  It requires a complete paradigm shift that's going to take a while to set in.

While I fully understand your point that came after the "whilst" I can't resist! You will enter the history, along the lines of:

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943
"The cinema is an invention without any future." -- Luis Lumière.

"By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's." -- Paul Krugman

 

That one was an absolute classic. But all of these examples of closed minded people not realising the unlimited extent of human ingenuity and how technology transforms sit in the shadow of this all-time visionary's far-sighted prediction:

"Everything that can be invented has been invented." — Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899.

[MyFarm]

FYI:

http://www.reddit.com/r/DRKCoin/comments/2nyifp/darkcoin_seriosuly_flawed_zero_anonymity_and/

To IranianFromHell666,

For every confirmed exploit you find that Evan confirms, I will provide .25 BTC (I know others are willing to put some up too).

For every confirmed exploit you find that you help fix, I will up that to .5 BTC.

[tungfa]

FYI:

http://www.reddit.com/r/DRKCoin/comments/2nyifp/darkcoin_seriosuly_flawed_zero_anonymity_and/

To IranianFromHell666,

For every confirmed exploit you find that Evan confirms, I will provide .25 BTC (I know others are willing to put some up too).

For every confirmed exploit you find that you help fix, I will up that to .5 BTC.

tx for stepping up Farm
but i think this is just the usual "concerned trolling" !
this has been around and just the name IranianFromHell666 sais it all !
 

[TheWastedYears]

FYI:

http://www.reddit.com/r/DRKCoin/comments/2nyifp/darkcoin_seriosuly_flawed_zero_anonymity_and/

To IranianFromHell666,

For every confirmed exploit you find that Evan confirms, I will provide .25 BTC (I know others are willing to put some up too).

For every confirmed exploit you find that you help fix, I will up that to .5 BTC.

tx for stepping up Farm
but i think this is just the usual "concerned trolling" !
this has been around and just the name IranianFromHell666 sais it all !
 

He apparently describes one bug, is there any truth to his claim?

[Jestah]

He apparently describes one bug, is there any truth to his claim?

Not until I see Evan's response.  If he did find a bug, it will be fixed in short order I'm certain.