Bitcoinica - Advanced Bitcoin Trading Platform

[Matthew N. Wright]

I think zhoutong is not honest with us. We need to take actions.
A lot of defrauded traders.

What's your proof / thought process?

[joe82]

read the thread lol.
a lot of defrauded traders.

Wrong execution/slippages about 10%/wrong closed trades e.t.c.

 

[zhoutong]

There's nothing wrong with the ask ticks unless you have stop orders being executed incorrectly.

Forced liquidations should take place at $5.47. Only the execution under $4.5 was incorrect.

[joe82]

There's nothing wrong with the ask ticks unless you have stop orders being executed incorrectly.

Forced liquidations should take place at $5.47. Only the execution under $4.5 was incorrect.

Forced liquidation took place when mtgox price was 5.13. You liquidated me at 5.47.
Nothing correct in this action.

[zhoutong]

There's nothing wrong with the ask ticks unless you have stop orders being executed incorrectly.

Forced liquidations should take place at $5.47. Only the execution under $4.5 was incorrect.

Forced liquidation took place when mtgox price was 5.13. You liquidated me at 5.47.
Nothing correct in this action.

Refer to our open interest chart and you'll know that we had huge amounts of positions to liquidate at that time. Our algorithm decided that 5.47 is the equilibrium price. And the market reaches that level after a few seconds.

We have lost thousands of dollars due to slippage because of the uncollectible negative balances. If we could reduce slippage, we would definitely do.

[fydel]

Zhoutong, please give more details!

Please explain why you are offering ZERO SPREADS for the bad ticks to all customers instead of giving a full refund to those who suffered most?

Thats smells like the beginning of the end. No refunds. Zero spreads. More customers for you. More profit when close bitcoinica down and run away with all our money. That is quite easy to anticipate.

Biconica will soon be the next Bitcoin7!! It's a shame.

Take out your money, people or you will loose it all.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Zhoutong, please give more details!

Please explain why you are offering ZERO SPREADS for the bad ticks to all customers instead of giving a full refund to those who suffered most?

Thats smells like the beginning of the end. No refunds. Zero spreads. More customers for you. More profit when close bitcoinica down and run away with all our money. That is quite easy to anticipate.

Biconica will soon be the next Bitcoin7!! It's a shame.

Take out your money, people or you will loose it all.

I'm not going to ignore common sense (if you show any), but you don't know how wrong you are and I can't tell you how wrong you are because it would involve telling you things you have no business knowing at this point in time.

I am willing to stake my reputation on it though. Zhou is not trying to scam anyone, and he is and only has been interested in the betterment of mankind. He has had many chances to collaborate with larger businesses, run his own exchange, etc, but he has at every turn shown that he cares more about being fair to the public and equalizing the volatility than making a quick buck.

The nature of Bitcoinica however is a risky one and I am sure there are things that even he is not going to be able to foresee. Let him explain himself, and better yet, wait for news in general. Your claims of him running off with people's money are so laughable to anyone who actually knows what's going on. Take a seat, son.

[zhoutong]

Zhoutong, please give more details!

Please explain why you are offering ZERO SPREADS for the bad ticks to all customers instead of giving a full refund to those who suffered most?

Thats smells like the beginning of the end. No refunds. Zero spreads. More customers for you. More profit when close bitcoinica down and run away with all our money. That is quite easy to anticipate.

Biconica will soon be the next Bitcoin7!! It's a shame.

Take out your money, people or you will loose it all.

We have refunded everyone who genuinely suffered. (They are the people who were forced to sell below $4.5. That's our fault.)

We don't give refunds to people who were forced to buy at high prices, because they should be liquidated anyway. (Even if we re-enable their positions, they will still be liquidated immediately.)

There're some people out there who got confused.

[fydel]

OK.

Position #10654 liquidated @ 4.4749 (Forced)

Only 160$ refund. No coins back. Please explain that.

[zhoutong]

OK.

Position #10654 liquidated @ 4.4749 (Forced)

Only 160$ refund. No coins back. Please explain that.

If not wrong, it's a 200 BTC position (with huge leverage!). We accidentally forced you to sell it at 12% below market price, and we compensated at least 16%.

You could buy back at $5.27 and still make a profit.

EDIT: Why do you anticipate BTC refund when Bitcoinica loaned you the money to purchase the Bitcoins in the first place?

[fydel]

If I am making up the problem as you say there should be no problem in simply restoring my position.

EDIT: If the bad ticks had not happend I would have had more than 300$. Now I only have 160$ and you blaming me for using a high leverage.

[zhoutong]

If I am making up the problem as you say there should be no problem in simply restoring my position.

EDIT: If the bad ticks had not happend I would have had more than 300$. Now I only have 160$ and you blaming me for using a high leverage.

We can restore your position. But you must return the $160 compensation first. Now you have withdrew everything.

Your original unrealized profit is $105 at correct price, and the liquidation resulted in a $59 loss. Where is the $300?

[echris1]

zhoutong, I keep seeing the bitcoin buy interest rate go from 0 to .14 pips.  How does this affect the interest earned on deposited bitcoins?  If the rate goes to 0 right before an interest payout, does that mean no interest?  I'm guessing this is somehow tied to your reserve requirements, but it is very unclear how these rate changes effect interest paid.

[randomguy7]

Zhoutong, how is the progress of fixing the failed deposits? My deposit from a week ago still doesn't show up and I've not yet received an answer to my email, too.

[beardman]

Zhoutong, please give more details!

Please explain why you are offering ZERO SPREADS for the bad ticks to all customers instead of giving a full refund to those who suffered most?

Thats smells like the beginning of the end. No refunds. Zero spreads. More customers for you. More profit when close bitcoinica down and run away with all our money. That is quite easy to anticipate.

Biconica will soon be the next Bitcoin7!! It's a shame.

Take out your money, people or you will loose it all.

We have refunded everyone who genuinely suffered. (They are the people who were forced to sell below $4.5. That's our fault.)

We don't give refunds to people who were forced to buy at high prices, because they should be liquidated anyway. (Even if we re-enable their positions, they will still be liquidated immediately.)

There're some people out there who got confused.

This makes more sense in regards to your post in the speculation forum, as you merely said liquidated shorts, not shorts liquidated below 4.5.

Actually, I wouldn't have been liquidated at all had I not had stops set up, and would have most of my money at this point. It's almost like you're telling me I shouldn't take measures to manage my risk because huge slippage should be expected. I got liquidated because I had buy orders set up for after my short had been covered, which then executed and then were liquidated pretty much immediately afterward because suddenly my order that would have maybe been 2:1 turned into leverage perhaps 10:1, and then with the spread and slippage, put me into a liquidation position.

I would say a loss of 96% is genuinely suffering when I "should have" lost ~35%, or even 75% if my second buy order to set up a long position hadn't executed and there had only been the problem of slippage. Implement stop limits and then people won't have legitimate complaints about slippage. I don't want, nor expect, reimbursement for my full position, or what could have been my profit had my short been covered in a reasonable manner and my long instated where I wished. All I want is the 61% percent of my loss that shouldn't have been, and stop-limits. I will never put more money in Bitcoinica until I see stop-limits, I really don't see what is preventing you from doing that.

These losses I'm calculating are assuming a 10 cent slippage by the way.

Edit: It also tried to execute a sell I had set up at 4.74, but luckily (or not, at least I would have gotten compensation for that), the slippage and long position buy meant I didn't have enough margin to do it.

[marks1976]

Well it appears I joined the boat today.  No understanding why.  The price has not moved in several days so I am not understanding why my positions sold off and liquidated.  The funny thing is I had more of my own bitcoins deposited in there than I actually purchased so to have a balance of $0 is quite impossible.  I guess this is how you recoup money that was stolen from you weeks before.  You promised to take care of everything when that happened because you had a very profitable year.  I see where the profits came from stealing from all the little people.

[fcmatt]

Well it appears I joined the boat today.  No understanding why.  The price has not moved in several days so I am not understanding why my positions sold off and liquidated.  The funny thing is I had more of my own bitcoins deposited in there than I actually purchased so to have a balance of $0 is quite impossible.  I guess this is how you recoup money that was stolen from you weeks before.  You promised to take care of everything when that happened because you had a very profitable year.  I see where the profits came from stealing from all the little people.

You really need to give a lot more details then you did for the forum to get on your side.

[zhoutong]

Well it appears I joined the boat today.  No understanding why.  The price has not moved in several days so I am not understanding why my positions sold off and liquidated.  The funny thing is I had more of my own bitcoins deposited in there than I actually purchased so to have a balance of $0 is quite impossible.  I guess this is how you recoup money that was stolen from you weeks before.  You promised to take care of everything when that happened because you had a very profitable year.  I see where the profits came from stealing from all the little people.

All I saw about your account is that you liquidated your own position and withdrew everything. Why you say that we are stealing from you?

[marks1976]

Well it appears I joined the boat today.  No understanding why.  The price has not moved in several days so I am not understanding why my positions sold off and liquidated.  The funny thing is I had more of my own bitcoins deposited in there than I actually purchased so to have a balance of $0 is quite impossible.  I guess this is how you recoup money that was stolen from you weeks before.  You promised to take care of everything when that happened because you had a very profitable year.  I see where the profits came from stealing from all the little people.

All I saw about your account is that you liquidated your own position and withdrew everything. Why you say that we are stealing from you?

I did not log into my account today.  I received an email stating my withdrawal is complete.  When I never logged in so I went to check my account and all funds had been withdrawn.  I sent this issue to the support dept. a couple of hours ago when I received the emails.  The transactions appear as they do for the others listed here.

[rjk]

Well it appears I joined the boat today.  No understanding why.  The price has not moved in several days so I am not understanding why my positions sold off and liquidated.  The funny thing is I had more of my own bitcoins deposited in there than I actually purchased so to have a balance of $0 is quite impossible.  I guess this is how you recoup money that was stolen from you weeks before.  You promised to take care of everything when that happened because you had a very profitable year.  I see where the profits came from stealing from all the little people.

All I saw about your account is that you liquidated your own position and withdrew everything. Why you say that we are stealing from you?

I did not log into my account today.  I received an email stating my withdrawal is complete.  When I never logged in so I went to check my account and all funds had been withdrawn.  I sent this issue to the support dept. a couple of hours ago when I received the emails.  The transactions appear as they do for the others listed here.

Lesson to be learned for everyone: Bitcoinica offers 2 factor authentication. Use it!