[ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning

[d57heinz]

well eth did not roll back the chain either.  To me rolling back the chain would be going back to the block before the dao attack.  restoring the dao eth and then moving forward.  Obvious this cant happen as exchanges and all that transacted after would be screwed.  Thats a roll back to me.  This is more of an attempt to stay on what most see as the good side.  Look at the hashrate and you can see the consensus still stands.  I will not mine etc if it paid 100x eth prices.  As i know that this is only alive to make a mockery of the consensus mechanism.  I cant see how btc will ever grow/fork if this is how forks are treated.  Problem we have is the network needs to be decentralized.  NOT the community that runs the network.   If this doesnt stop it will all implode.  We cant have a coin for every person on the planet.  What use is that?  Its absurd and at some point cant we all come to some agreement to stop making new coins and just work on the ones we have already.  Stop thinking that since you have more time vested this is "your" baby now.> Ya im talking to you coders!  Its far past time to get along around here.  If this community wasnt so damn broken it wouldnt be such an easy target for hackers.  I dont know what the answer is but im at least thinking about it.  

Best Regards
d57heinz

[d57heinz]

The way i see it.  And i wonder if iceb and friends are having the same discussion on bitfinex threads.  I mean i look at bfx as a doa.  People dumped way too much into a place they didnt control the keys of.  hacker got into it now we see the bailout.  Socialized losses.  No difference whatsoever.. Wheres all the fireworks about that.. Maybe i missed it or i havent seen it because ive smartened up and not keep large amount on exchanges.(btw i only put 10 eth into doa:) ). i say if icebreaker is to have his way then some should lose all on bfx and those not hacked should have access to pre hack funds.. Anyway.. I leave those that have nothing better to do to chew on this for a while..

best Regards
d57heinz

btw i support your position thevictimofuktyrrany.  Follow the "good" fork and consensus and lets see where it leads.. If ice and company had it their way its a failure already..  No harm in trying and btc is its own chain again not effected by this whatsoever.

LOL, as if I'm advocating a BTC hard fork to roll back and bail out Bitfinex losses?  Where did you get that idea (and pass it over 'ere).  

Slight difference: Bitfinex claimed to be insured and protected by known-good top-shelf security.  DAO?  Not so much....

You obviously have no idea what my opinion wrt Bitfinex is, yet don't hesitate to put conclusory words in my mouth and hold me accountable for them.

That's called a strawman.

I believe anyone risking BTC on any exchange, in order to possibly accrue reward from trading, has no right to expect ex post facto asset commingling and resultant socialized losses.

You'd know that if you weren't a noob and unfamiliar with my posting history, in which I put >1 exchange operator on full blast for pulling a Bitfinex (before it was cool).

Fuck you for making up stuff I don't agree with and attributing it to my paradigm.

I accept your apology for being a sorry sack of shit.    

ahh must of hit some nails on the head ehh.  Come back so angry.. Maybe you need to relax.  http://www.floatingstl.com/  no i dont bother to read your history but thank you for clarifying.  I didnt mean to imply btc was going to be rolled back at all.. I know that is not possible.  well so we think lol.  You just havent had the right person get fucked yet.  Well anyway this is all fun and games dont get your panties in a bunch.  Also dont invest more than you can afford to lose;)

Best Regards
d57heinz

[Perryll]

In Reply:

Answering silly rebuttals is making me yawn, maybe I should have gone on holiday this August

The Fork in the Ethereum blockchain is a Change

Therefore my words: "I prefer too back new innovation and discoveries" is being consistent with supporting the fork in the blockchain.

Therefore, the charge against me of logical fallacies, appears to be in somebody's imagination

Secondly the full paragraph you are quoting is:

"But, when it comes to my money and my time: I prefer too back new innovation and discoveries.

Some of these, may turn out be crap, but I'm certain their going to be winners amongst in that group."

Therefore, you comprehension is failing, because as sentence makes clear - this is not about the "Old Hat" policy of zero-bailouts, but a personal preference in trying out new features that appear in new Alts.

Turning to the guy using Latin:

argumentum ad populum= mass adoption is what every crypto currency is trying to achieve (popularity).

argumentum ad ignorantiam = ignorance requires trust, which needs history or proof of trustworthiness. Allowing 3.5 million ETH to be stolen is not going allow people to "ignorantly" trust the Ethereum Foundation and they can never achieve mass adoption of the crypto currency.

Therefore, doing the exact opposite of what you are arguing could make ETH the biggest crypto currency in world!

My comprehension despite your badly written English is actually perfectly fine. The logical fallacies have been explained to you, already.

The two Ethers can exist. Either could turn out to be crap, or both(probably both). ETH is still in infancy. Hell, even BTC is.

You have your personal preference and that's perfectly fine, but it changes nothing. ETH wrote one thing and did another. ETC followed the original plan. If you cannot accept that then I think you're the one having trouble comprehending things.

The way i see it.  And i wonder if iceb and friends are having the same discussion on bitfinex threads.  I mean i look at bfx as a doa.  People dumped way too much into a place they didnt control the keys of.  hacker got into it now we see the bailout.  Socialized losses.  No difference whatsoever.. Wheres all the fireworks about that.. Maybe i missed it or i havent seen it because ive smartened up and not keep large amount on exchanges.(btw i only put 10 eth into doa:) ). i say if icebreaker is to have his way then some should lose all on bfx and those not hacked should have access to pre hack funds.. Anyway.. I leave those that have nothing better to do to chew on this for a while..

best Regards
d57heinz

btw i support your position thevictimofuktyrrany.  Follow the "good" fork and consensus and lets see where it leads.. If ice and company had it their way its a failure already..  No harm in trying and btc is its own chain again not effected by this whatsoever.

LOL, as if I'm advocating a BTC hard fork to roll back and bail out Bitfinex losses?  Where did you get that idea (and pass it over 'ere).   

Slight difference: Bitfinex claimed to be insured and protected by known-good top-shelf security.  DAO?  Not so much....

You obviously have no idea what my opinion wrt Bitfinex is, yet don't hesitate to put conclusory words in my mouth and hold me accountable for them.

That's called a strawman.

I believe anyone risking BTC on any exchange, in order to possibly accrue reward from trading, has no right to expect ex post facto asset commingling and resultant socialized losses.

You'd know that if you weren't a noob and unfamiliar with my posting history, in which I put >1 exchange operator on full blast for pulling a Bitfinex (before it was cool).

Fuck you for making up stuff I don't agree with and attributing it to my paradigm.

I accept your apology for being a sorry sack of shit.   

ahh must of hit some nails on the head ehh.  Come back so angry.. Maybe you need to relax.  http://www.floatingstl.com/  no i dont bother to read your history but thank you for clarifying.  I didnt mean to imply btc was going to be rolled back at all.. I know that is not possible.  well so we think lol.  You just havent had the right person get fucked yet.  Well anyway this is all fun and games dont get your panties in a bunch.  Also dont invest more than you can afford to lose;)

Best Regards
d57heinz

BTC would lose support. There would be a fork of some kind, surely. That's what open source and decentralized really means.

[Herp]

In Reply:

Answering silly rebuttals is making me yawn, maybe I should have gone on holiday this August

The Fork in the Ethereum blockchain is a Change

Therefore my words: "I prefer too back new innovation and discoveries" is being consistent with supporting the fork in the blockchain.

Therefore, the charge against me of logical fallacies, appears to be in somebody's imagination

Secondly the full paragraph you are quoting is:

"But, when it comes to my money and my time: I prefer too back new innovation and discoveries.

Some of these, may turn out be crap, but I'm certain their going to be winners amongst in that group."

Therefore, you comprehension is failing, because as sentence makes clear - this is not about the "Old Hat" policy of zero-bailouts, but a personal preference in trying out new features that appear in new Alts.

Turning to the guy using Latin:

argumentum ad populum= mass adoption is what every crypto currency is trying to achieve (popularity).

argumentum ad ignorantiam = ignorance requires trust, which needs history or proof of trustworthiness. Allowing 3.5 million ETH to be stolen is not going allow people to "ignorantly" trust the Ethereum Foundation and they can never achieve mass adoption of the crypto currency.

Therefore, doing the exact opposite of what you are arguing could make ETH the biggest crypto currency in world!

My comprehension despite your badly written English is actually perfectly fine. The logical fallacies have been explained to you, already.

The two Ethers can exist. Either could turn out to be crap, or both(probably both). ETH is still in infancy. Hell, even BTC is.

You have your personal preference and that's perfectly fine, but it changes nothing. ETH wrote one thing and did another. ETC followed the original plan. If you cannot accept that then I think you're the one having trouble comprehending things.

The way i see it.  And i wonder if iceb and friends are having the same discussion on bitfinex threads.  I mean i look at bfx as a doa.  People dumped way too much into a place they didnt control the keys of.  hacker got into it now we see the bailout.  Socialized losses.  No difference whatsoever.. Wheres all the fireworks about that.. Maybe i missed it or i havent seen it because ive smartened up and not keep large amount on exchanges.(btw i only put 10 eth into doa:) ). i say if icebreaker is to have his way then some should lose all on bfx and those not hacked should have access to pre hack funds.. Anyway.. I leave those that have nothing better to do to chew on this for a while..

best Regards
d57heinz

btw i support your position thevictimofuktyrrany.  Follow the "good" fork and consensus and lets see where it leads.. If ice and company had it their way its a failure already..  No harm in trying and btc is its own chain again not effected by this whatsoever.

LOL, as if I'm advocating a BTC hard fork to roll back and bail out Bitfinex losses?  Where did you get that idea (and pass it over 'ere).   

Slight difference: Bitfinex claimed to be insured and protected by known-good top-shelf security.  DAO?  Not so much....

You obviously have no idea what my opinion wrt Bitfinex is, yet don't hesitate to put conclusory words in my mouth and hold me accountable for them.

That's called a strawman.

I believe anyone risking BTC on any exchange, in order to possibly accrue reward from trading, has no right to expect ex post facto asset commingling and resultant socialized losses.

You'd know that if you weren't a noob and unfamiliar with my posting history, in which I put >1 exchange operator on full blast for pulling a Bitfinex (before it was cool).

Fuck you for making up stuff I don't agree with and attributing it to my paradigm.

I accept your apology for being a sorry sack of shit.   

ahh must of hit some nails on the head ehh.  Come back so angry.. Maybe you need to relax.  http://www.floatingstl.com/  no i dont bother to read your history but thank you for clarifying.  I didnt mean to imply btc was going to be rolled back at all.. I know that is not possible.  well so we think lol.  You just havent had the right person get fucked yet.  Well anyway this is all fun and games dont get your panties in a bunch.  Also dont invest more than you can afford to lose;)

Best Regards
d57heinz

BTC would lose support. There would be a fork of some kind, surely. That's what open source and decentralized really means.

ETC will have no choice but to fork as well pretty soon.

[peonminer]

Etherum lol the biggest scam of the 21st century.

[suchmoon]

well eth did not roll back the chain either.  To me rolling back the chain would be going back to the block before the dao attack.  restoring the dao eth and then moving forward.  Obvious this cant happen as exchanges and all that transacted after would be screwed.  Thats a roll back to me.  This is more of an attempt to stay on what most see as the good side.  Look at the hashrate and you can see the consensus still stands.  I will not mine etc if it paid 100x eth prices.  As i know that this is only alive to make a mockery of the consensus mechanism.  I cant see how btc will ever grow/fork if this is how forks are treated.  Problem we have is the network needs to be decentralized.  NOT the community that runs the network.   If this doesnt stop it will all implode.  We cant have a coin for every person on the planet.  What use is that?  Its absurd and at some point cant we all come to some agreement to stop making new coins and just work on the ones we have already.  Stop thinking that since you have more time vested this is "your" baby now.> Ya im talking to you coders!  Its far past time to get along around here.  If this community wasnt so damn broken it wouldnt be such an easy target for hackers.  I dont know what the answer is but im at least thinking about it.  

Best Regards
d57heinz

Consensus doesn't mean that everybody MUST agree. It's a voluntary agreement. ETH and ETC each have their own consensus and are successfully building their respective chains. That's how crypto works. If someone wants to fork BTC right now - they can go ahead and do it. And what hackers have to do with the "community"? If there is a vulnerability and money to be gained by exploiting it - someone will do it eventually, no matter what the community is or does.

[bitpop]

Pretty funny, bitfinex will be dumping eth and coinbase had to buy etc

[iCEBREAKER]

The way i see it.  And i wonder if iceb and friends are having the same discussion on bitfinex threads.  I mean i look at bfx as a doa.  People dumped way too much into a place they didnt control the keys of.  hacker got into it now we see the bailout.  Socialized losses.  No difference whatsoever.. Wheres all the fireworks about that.. Maybe i missed it or i havent seen it because ive smartened up and not keep large amount on exchanges.(btw i only put 10 eth into doa:) ). i say if icebreaker is to have his way then some should lose all on bfx and those not hacked should have access to pre hack funds.. Anyway.. I leave those that have nothing better to do to chew on this for a while..

best Regards
d57heinz

btw i support your position thevictimofuktyrrany.  Follow the "good" fork and consensus and lets see where it leads.. If ice and company had it their way its a failure already..  No harm in trying and btc is its own chain again not effected by this whatsoever.

LOL, as if I'm advocating a BTC hard fork to roll back and bail out Bitfinex losses?  Where did you get that idea (and pass it over 'ere).  

Slight difference: Bitfinex claimed to be insured and protected by known-good top-shelf security.  DAO?  Not so much....

You obviously have no idea what my opinion wrt Bitfinex is, yet don't hesitate to put conclusory words in my mouth and hold me accountable for them.

That's called a strawman.

I believe anyone risking BTC on any exchange, in order to possibly accrue reward from trading, has no right to expect ex post facto asset commingling and resultant socialized losses.

You'd know that if you weren't a noob and unfamiliar with my posting history, in which I put >1 exchange operator on full blast for pulling a Bitfinex (before it was cool).

Fuck you for making up stuff I don't agree with and attributing it to my paradigm.

I accept your apology for being a sorry sack of shit.    

ahh must of hit some nails on the head ehh.  Come back so angry.. Maybe you need to relax.  http://www.floatingstl.com/  no i dont bother to read your history but thank you for clarifying.  I didnt mean to imply btc was going to be rolled back at all.. I know that is not possible.  well so we think lol.  You just havent had the right person get fucked yet.  Well anyway this is all fun and games dont get your panties in a bunch.  Also dont invest more than you can afford to lose;)

Best Regards
d57heinz

Attributing to me a pro-socialized losses position wrt Bitfinex I never took is bound to cause annoyance.

If you wish to celebrate your strawman-at-best trolling-at-worst reaction creation, be my guest.   

Meanwhile, my actual position is that bailouts are wrong, whether for an exchange or The Dao.

[roselee]

PETITION CALLING FOR MEMBERS OF THE ETHEREUM FOUNDATION/TEAM AND OTHERS (WHITE HACKERS) TO RETURN ETC TO DAO HOLDERS ADDRESSES.

SEE POST BELOW & SIGN THE PETITION.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1576396.msg15827434#msg15827434

https://www.change.org/p/ethereum-foundation-members-of-ethereum-team-white-hats-to-return-etc-to-dao-holders

how is it going?

[roselee]

PETITION CALLING FOR THE ETHEREUM FOUNDATION (WHITE HACKERS) TO RETURN ETC TO DAO HOLDERS ADDRESSES.

SEE POST BELOW & SIGN THE PETITION.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1576396.msg15827434#msg15827434

https://www.change.org/p/ethereum-foundation-ethereum-foundation-to-return-etc-to-dao-holders

LOL Dream oooooonnnnn

its just a fair demand i would say.
the white hat attackerrs never intendet to keep that etc or they would be as criminal as the black hat attacker in there own perspectiv ?

[tylerderden]

Yeah Mr heinzketchup guy, you fail to see the point (as expected being pro eth no matter what) I don't like people who say one thing and do another, especially after taking a shit load of other people's money. That's called a scam no matter how you word it. Bailouts due to bad programming are OK with you? Lol, well that's how you end up being a bagholder. The other thing that many of you refuse to grasp is that the blockchain is the technology that allows cryptocurrency to function, expecting everyone to just say oh shit people will lose money let's just throw out the whole integrity of the system and save them is a very naive position to have in this "experiment"  and this whole bit about eth being a threat to bitcoin? Baahaahaa this is where you really fail to grasp what myself and others are getting at, I'm not loyal to any cryptocurrency, and I am not into taking a side on something self serving to benefit my "investment" I have equal amounts of eth and etc that I got cheap when the premine was sold off, the etc was free. I've made plenty of money in crypto, I could care less about the price of either. Your entitled to your opinion and so am I, eth (foundation and devs) have proven themselves to be untrustworthy and willing to try and control the blockchain for their own benefit. You have been around, you know this is not a good thing just as much as I do.

[Zaducis]

I think we can all see what is coming.  ETH is dead.  ETC will go back to being the only chain (like it was before the hard fork). 

Sure it will take time because there is a lot of big money in ETH they won't give up easily but it is just a matter of time. 

Even the foundation will grudgingly slide back to the original chain (and probably quietly admit they screwed up).

It is like someone has started draining the value out of ETH and putting it directly into ETC.  Nobody is more surprised than me at this.

Crypto is nothing if not constantly surprising us.

That can't happen, because it is mathematically impossible

Furthermore, when ETH goes over to POS in 7 months, well, stuff looks very bad for ETC.

There is no firm schedule for the PoS on ETH yet. I think the PoW will last for another 12 months at least.

[bitpop]

Why would ethtards want pos where the whales get richer? It makes no sense, it reminds me of gawtards

[roselee]

PETITION CALLING FOR THE ETHEREUM FOUNDATION (WHITE HACKERS) TO RETURN ETC TO DAO HOLDERS ADDRESSES.

SEE POST BELOW & SIGN THE PETITION.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1576396.msg15827434#msg15827434

https://www.change.org/p/ethereum-foundation-ethereum-foundation-to-return-etc-to-dao-holders

Why post that on this ANN, there is ANN for the DAO.

Why do so many people keep posting stuff on Ethereum ANN, about ETC?

beouse its  a free world ?
the title is "welcome to the beginning"
not welcome to all that agree with every thing we do

[thevictimofuktyranny]

PETITION CALLING FOR THE ETHEREUM FOUNDATION (WHITE HACKERS) TO RETURN ETC TO DAO HOLDERS ADDRESSES.

SEE POST BELOW & SIGN THE PETITION.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1576396.msg15827434#msg15827434

https://www.change.org/p/ethereum-foundation-ethereum-foundation-to-return-etc-to-dao-holders

Why post that on this ANN, there is ANN for the DAO.

Why do so many people keep posting stuff on Ethereum ANN, about ETC?

beouse its  a free world ?
the title is "welcome to the beginning"
not welcome to all that agree with every thing we do

I'm just curious, are you ever going to post something useful to the Ethereum Foundation's supported ETH?

[frostminer]

Why would ethtards want pos where the whales get richer? It makes no sense, it reminds me of gawtards

Better give the money to the big mining farms and pools, right?


Its really not much difference.
The ones with MUCH resources will ALWAYS be the ones to  benefit.


With PoS they just buy coins.

With PoW they buy gpus.



A home miner maybe has 1-3 gpus's.
While serious miner has 100s.

[roselee]

PETITION CALLING FOR THE ETHEREUM FOUNDATION (WHITE HACKERS) TO RETURN ETC TO DAO HOLDERS ADDRESSES.

SEE POST BELOW & SIGN THE PETITION.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1576396.msg15827434#msg15827434

https://www.change.org/p/ethereum-foundation-ethereum-foundation-to-return-etc-to-dao-holders

Why post that on this ANN, there is ANN for the DAO.

Why do so many people keep posting stuff on Ethereum ANN, about ETC?

beouse its  a free world ?
the title is "welcome to the beginning"
not welcome to all that agree with every thing we do

I'm just curious, are you ever going to post something useful to the Ethereum Foundation's supported ETH?

hmm is that the key to be alowed here ? to post something useful for the ethereum foundation?
hmmm doesnt say it in the title .

and like i said the title is not Welcome only if you agree with us.
or it does not say elite memebers only or it does not say promotion threat for etH or no ETC holders wanted.

or stay out of here if you have a brain and use it.

[thevictimofuktyranny]

Why would ethtards want pos where the whales get richer? It makes no sense, it reminds me of gawtards

Better give the money to the big mining farms and pools, right?


Its really not much different.
The ones with MUCH resources will ALWAYS be the ones to  benefit.


With PoS they just buy coins.

With PoW they buy gpus.



A home miner maybe has 1-3 gpus's.
While serious miner has 100s.

Not really,

Non-commercial mining is about accumulation for events e.g. Block Halvings or Changes like going over too POS or implementation of New Features.

As long as you know there is going to be Events by the development team for a Crypto-Currency - your net Alt Coin valuation will show healthy profits or increases in valuation.

For example: With single R9 290 overclocked too 1100 MHZ, mining Ethereum from the beginning would have netted 240 plus ETH.

However, most of those 240 ETH would have been mined last year, before everyone started buying new GPUs.

Therefore, had you mined and sold last year you would have made a large loss, when compared to the price this year.

A commercial farm, has too sell a fixed %, therefore commercial farms have made much bigger losses than everybody else, when they do this comparison: on the ETH they sold last year.

This observation applies to all POW Cryptos, look at BTC sold off by commercial farms between Janurary 2015 to June 2015.

Yelp, lots of BTC commercial farm owners must be crying themselves to sleep this year!

Consequently, it is a balance system.

The advantage of non-commercial miners is: accumulation when the price is an undervaluation. This advantage is reduced considerably, for commercial farm owners.

Secondly, the free mining software has been very good for a very long-time on ETH.

The differential between private mining software and the free mining software has been well within an acceptable tolerance of a 10% differential.

The Ethereum Foundation has produced a much fairer outcome between the commercial farm owners and non-commercial miners.

[estenity]

the loss at Bitfinex has been globalized to 36 % of all assets of the exchange.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-07/first-bitcoin-bail-all-bitfinex-users-lose-36-shared-loss-after-historic-hack

[oaliddy]

the loss at Bitfinex has been globalized to 36 % of all assets of the exchange.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-07/first-bitcoin-bail-all-bitfinex-users-lose-36-shared-loss-after-historic-hack

Bad solution better than no solution