Eligius: 0% Fee BTC, 105% PPS NMC, No registration, CPPSRB

[Hektur]

Wizkid has too good of a reputation to blow it on some baseless accusation.  If he has proof, he has proof.

We believe in bitcoin because that by using bitcoin, there's finally no need to build your finance system on someone's 'reputation'.
Math and 50%+1 democracy works transparently here.
If you still trust 'reputation', you are not really a bitcoiner.

You have to trust the pool operator to not cancel all withdrawals such as 50BTC has done and keep the BTC for himself.  So, YES, you do have to have a certain amount of trust.  But at least I don't screw around with the system  and claim I'm innocent.

[1714971996]

1714971996

[1714971996]

1714971996

[CanaryInTheMine]

you just keep talking and digging a bigger hole buddy...
be a man, suck it up and go honest.

How can anyone prove that eligius not erase my block log from the website block list?
You trust eligius more than me, just because that eligius is the 2nd oldest pool?
We used to be as you, until this event.

Huh. The person who purportedly withheld shares, the only possible motivation for which would be to make Elgius look bad is now trying to... make Eldigus look bad.

I for one would never have predicted this in a million years and am shocked.

SHOCKED I SAY.

If I really wants to make eligius "bad", The right way is to use 10 btc to hire a buck of hacker in china to DDOS that website, instead of risking my 200+ BTC on pretending to be a normal miner.
Holding block is easy to be caught, just a "SELECT user, power, hisLucky WHERE hisLucky < 0.xxx*poolLucky and power > yyy" is enough.
We of course know eligius's crew is not fool.

[capa]

I'd like to see the BTC 200 from Eligius and 300 from Blockwitholder put in escrow and a trusted 3rd party audit carried out.

I'd rather this was done than some witch hunt / trial by media.

Agreed! I was just about to move my TH's to Eligius, but seeing this information has me a bit worried about doing so.

So you would prefer to have a pool owner that does not protect the pool?  

You trust the pool owner to control the BTC 99% of the time but do not in this case?  Either you trust the pool owner or not.  ABSOLUTELY NO need for escrow in this situation.  

It's not a case of trust, it's about doing the right thing. Behaving in an honest and open fashion.  The innocent party has nothing to fear from my suggestion. Your rapid defense of Eligius may be admirable, but in this it is misguided.

[thejewelrytech]

I am the owner of 17JkL94B2ngJg4QQZuiozDQjnxXB6B7yTc , 1Gu8zxRi8cyENV8CQe52D7QEsiZ7ruT73u.
First of all, your PR is very good at dealing with such "incident", to make this thing clear, I'll past the timeline and post we have:

In 5.16, I post my ticket.
In 5.21, you replied to request signature for my address, I replied.
In 5.23, you found my signature is wrong. after investigate, I found that I add a extra space on somewhere, then I re-sign the text.
Then, a week passed. After I said that if there's no response, I will post it on society. Finally, you announced.
Then I give you some option.
Then you keep slience and post this.

The last shared submitted on these address is in first week of May, and you keep slience, until I warn you twice.

For your " demanding 1164%-APY interest", Let me paste my last post here:

===============
Hi,

This may be the last time I ask for your response.
You need to choose one of these two options in 72 hours, or we'll 'escalate' this case to the whole bitcoin society, and your local law enforcement agencies may also be involved later.

1. Pay all unpaid bitcoin before 6/15.
2. Pay under a installment plan: pay 10% per week, or pay 5% a week, with a extra 5% interest.
===================

Thats all, 5% interest. If you can pay me in 10 week, you can still pay nothing extra!!!

And for my "hacking your site if you dont pay", I post my origional words here:

==================
2. No one wants to risk its money (or hash power) to behave maliciously, under the design of bitcoin protocol, since it will for sure bring negative benefit. If I want to act "maliciously", I can pay just even a small proportion of 200btc to a professional hacker, and I believe he can tear your site for weeks. it may be a much better idea than messing your share system up with legal traffic.
==================

May be my english is poor, But I think you know what "IF" means. I just said that assume that I'm a bad guy and want to break your site, it's a better idea to hire a creaker than risk my power of calculation.

Overall, I think that you cannot prove that I was guilty, and you are innocent mathematically. The only word makes you look like innocent is like "I am the 2nd oldest pool, trust me".

Even if it was unintentional you fucked up at everyone elses expense. Other people paid for your mistake in coding. You should return ALL the BTC you've mined.

If you accidentally steal (or even just receive) money from a bank, you are legally required to return it.

Please return all the BTC you mined whilst withholding blocks. It was my understanding this happened by accident (in coding a custom mining client), but that wasn't my mistake, yet you have my money.

How can anyone prove that eligius not erase my block log from the website block list?
You trust eligius more than me, just because that eligius is the 2nd oldest pool?
We used to be as you, until this event.

Your thinly Veiled threats speak very much of your Guilt and Character and of a kid who got his hand caught in the cookie jar.........
Whizkid history on this forum speaks for itself about his character!!! A person who has dedicated his time FREE OF CHARGE never ever asking for a millibit from anyone!!! dedicating  0% fee pool for the public. His actions speaks  volumes about his character for beyond being the second  oldest pool? He's A completely SELFLESS INDIVIDUAL!! All the hard work he has done for the community and has never once asked for anything in return? Speaks for itself! If he wanted coin he could easily have mandated a % fee and yet he asks for NOTHING even after people urge him too make donations mandatory!
 If he was someone who was blinded by GREED he would  of made donations mandatory from the start! and He spends countless hours fixing and updating things for EVERYBODY out of the Goodness of his Heart and yet asks nothing in return?A THANK YOU is good enough for him. Wow  8)That alone speaks a thousand words about his character and what kind of person he is! A completely selfless individual who doesn't just think about himself who puts others before himself! Shoot the man has even put the community before his own wifey countless late nights updating and protecting the site for the betterment of EVERYBODY! Not for Himself!
His actions speak of Integrity of a First Class Individual and anyone who has been mining here knows that If whiz says it happened? You can bet the House rest assured that it's TRUE!!!
 

[Brucexie]

I am the owner of 17JkL94B2ngJg4QQZuiozDQjnxXB6B7yTc , 1Gu8zxRi8cyENV8CQe52D7QEsiZ7ruT73u.
First of all, your PR is very good at dealing with such "incident", to make this thing clear, I'll past the timeline and post we have:

In 5.16, I post my ticket.
In 5.21, you replied to request signature for my address, I replied.
In 5.23, you found my signature is wrong. after investigate, I found that I add a extra space on somewhere, then I re-sign the text.
Then, a week passed. After I said that if there's no response, I will post it on society. Finally, you announced.
Then I give you some option.
Then you keep slience and post this.

The last shared submitted on these address is in first week of May, and you keep slience, until I warn you twice.

For your " demanding 1164%-APY interest", Let me paste my last post here:

===============
Hi,

This may be the last time I ask for your response.
You need to choose one of these two options in 72 hours, or we'll 'escalate' this case to the whole bitcoin society, and your local law enforcement agencies may also be involved later.

1. Pay all unpaid bitcoin before 6/15.
2. Pay under a installment plan: pay 10% per week, or pay 5% a week, with a extra 5% interest.
===================

Thats all, 5% interest. If you can pay me in 10 week, you can still pay nothing extra!!!

And for my "hacking your site if you dont pay", I post my origional words here:

==================
2. No one wants to risk its money (or hash power) to behave maliciously, under the design of bitcoin protocol, since it will for sure bring negative benefit. If I want to act "maliciously", I can pay just even a small proportion of 200btc to a professional hacker, and I believe he can tear your site for weeks. it may be a much better idea than messing your share system up with legal traffic.
==================

May be my english is poor, But I think you know what "IF" means. I just said that assume that I'm a bad guy and want to break your site, it's a better idea to hire a creaker than risk my power of calculation.

Overall, I think that you cannot prove that I was guilty, and you are innocent mathematically. The only word makes you look like innocent is like "I am the 2nd oldest pool, trust me".

Even if it was unintentional you fucked up at everyone elses expense. Other people paid for your mistake in coding. You should return ALL the BTC you've mined.

If you accidentally steal (or even just receive) money from a bank, you are legally required to return it.

Please return all the BTC you mined whilst withholding blocks. It was my understanding this happened by accident (in coding a custom mining client), but that wasn't my mistake, yet you have my money.

How can anyone prove that eligius not erase my block log from the website block list?
You trust eligius more than me, just because that eligius is the 2nd oldest pool?
We used to be as you, until this event.

Your thinly Veiled threats speak very much of your Guilt and Character and of a kid who got his hand caught in the cookie jar.........
Whizkid history on this forum speaks for itself about his character!!! A person who has dedicated his time FREE OF CHARGE never ever asking for a millibit from anyone!!! dedicating  0% fee pool for the public. His actions speaks  volumes about his character for beyond being the second  oldest pool? He's A completely SELFLESS INDIVIDUAL!! All the hard work he has done for the community and has never once asked for anything in return? Speaks for itself! If he wanted coin he could easily have mandated a % fee and yet he asks for NOTHING even after people urge him too make donations mandatory!
 If he was someone who was blinded by GREED he would  of made donations mandatory from the start! and He spends countless hours fixing and updating things for EVERYBODY out of the Goodness of his Heart and yet asks nothing in return?A THANK YOU is good enough for him. Wow  8)That alone speaks a thousand words about his character and what kind of person he is! A completely selfless individual who doesn't just think about himself who puts others before himself! Shoot the man has even put the community before his own wifey countless late nights updating and protecting the site for the betterment of EVERYBODY! Not for Himself!
His actions speak of Integrity of a First Class Individual and anyone who has been mining here knows that If whiz says it happened? You can bet the House rest assured that it's TRUE!!!
 

Oh, you give me an idea.
To hire a PR professional to dress up myself as a selfless man, after being trusted, then start to steel 200+ btc from miner.
200+ btc is about 120K USD, which is enough to hire such part-time expert in mid euro, india, or china.
So it is really profitable.
If you are educated to think independently, my word is for your consider.

[Hektur]

To hire a PR professional to dress you up as a selfless man right there is deceitful because it shows that you weren't really one to start with and you need coaching to instruct you on how to pass off as one.  If you were a honest individual then you wouldn't need to hire a PR guy nor need the coaching.  It all comes from one's upbringing and moral grounds on how to respect other people and their property.

[Tigggger]

So if I understand this story correctly, you weren't witholding blocks deliberately you had faulty hardware.

BTCGuild (eleuthria) informed you of this after he noticed what was happening and your hardware was then fixed to work properly

The btc that eligius is witholding is from the period before btcguild when your hardware was faulty.

If this is the case I think he's correct, your hardware would never have solved a block and therefore isn't eligble for pooled rewards.

[Littleshop]

I'd like to see the BTC 200 from Eligius and 300 from Blockwitholder put in escrow and a trusted 3rd party audit carried out.

I'd rather this was done than some witch hunt / trial by media.

Agreed! I was just about to move my TH's to Eligius, but seeing this information has me a bit worried about doing so.

So you would prefer to have a pool owner that does not protect the pool?  

You trust the pool owner to control the BTC 99% of the time but do not in this case?  Either you trust the pool owner or not.  ABSOLUTELY NO need for escrow in this situation.  

It's not a case of trust, it's about doing the right thing. Behaving in an honest and open fashion.  The innocent party has nothing to fear from my suggestion. Your rapid defense of Eligius may be admirable, but in this it is misguided.

It is not a defense.  It is a point.  They normally have control over your money.  You trust them simply by joining their pool.  If you do not trust them for your mining proceeds you should not be in the pool. 

[ratty]

If he is guilty by math, can someone that has access to the data submit a proof? Even if we believe the data to be unmodified, I have yet to see an explanation as to how they know for sure they are guilty and not simply unlucky!
Then there's the other obvious question, why not just block them instead of allowing them to continue to mine and not pay them? But that is a separate issue and I don't want that to distract from the bigger problem of it not being explained how they know the perpetrator wasn't unlucky.

If someone did post the proof, then I apologize, I read every post slowly and was unable to find it. There are lots of discussion of the theory, but nothing like "they submitted X shares, and solved Y, at 1/3 what you would expect to be solved", or "we remined some of his shares, and he had been given solveable ones" , or "on date Z we can prove the pool sent his miners a solveable share and it didn't solve it".
So far this is looking up in the air to me.

I'm just curious, how do you detect it, and know they aren't just unlucky in ever finding a block?

Just curious, how can you be confident this was a hack?  I mean what is the probability that they've just had bad luck and never got a winning answer but have genuinely been playing fairly?  

Reason I ask is if it was bad luck you're inadvertently screwing over a genuine miner to subsidize others. (Although is surprising someone would leave that much BTC in an online account!)

I'm guessing you're very sure about this but would like to know how you're so sure.

and the luck is really bad now:
Round Luck:   37.4%

According to: http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/blocks.php

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1Gu8zxRi8cyENV8CQe52D7QEsiZ7ruT73u

found two blocks and is owed 103 BTC.

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/17JkL94B2ngJg4QQZuiozDQjnxXB6B7yTc

found five blocks and is owed 122 BTC.

These stats do not seem out of the ordinary.

Maybe wizkid can enlighten us as to how he has deduced that these addresses below to the block withholder.

To be clear, I'm not on anyone's side here and have suffered a 50 BTC loss from eligius' bad luck. I'd just like to know all of the facts and how wizkid came to his conclusions.

We would like some answers please, instead all I see are pitchforks and speculation on how guilty people act psychologically.

[Raize]

I am the owner of 17JkL94B2ngJg4QQZuiozDQjnxXB6B7yTc , 1Gu8zxRi8cyENV8CQe52D7QEsiZ7ruT73u.

Can you provide us with cryptographic proof of ownership?

[vancsj]

Nice catch first of all. I appreciate the due diligence.

I have what may be a stupid question(who knows).

You say there is no way the attacker can profit, but I was wondering by withholding are they possibly withholding shares of a certain difficulty range and mining at several pools with difficulty ranges for each to look like they are mining at each pool to get credit for their hash rate at each pool?

I don't even know if this is possible and I've been drinking a little, but it came to me while reading your post....

Anyway again nice catch.....

No they can't, the pool will check that:)

[bitcoindaddy]

I can think of no faster way to undermine faith in a pool than for them to threaten to withhold a miner's funds.

[Henchman24]

I can think of no faster way to undermine faith in a pool than for them to threaten to withhold a miner's funds.

Each to his own, I suppose.  I'd be much more wary of a pool owner that continued to give away our btc to what would seem to be a fraudulent miner.

[Brucexie]

So if I understand this story correctly, you weren't witholding blocks deliberately you had faulty hardware.

BTCGuild (eleuthria) informed you of this after he noticed what was happening and your hardware was then fixed to work properly

The btc that eligius is witholding is from the period before btcguild when your hardware was faulty.

If this is the case I think he's correct, your hardware would never have solved a block and therefore isn't eligble for pooled rewards.

I have solved my issue at the beginning of the May, then we move to eligius for test, After we see block found by them, we move back to BTCguild.
You can see my block which was mined after May 1st on their list.
Is it clear?

[hardhouseinc]

Oh so now you are on BTCGuild trying to hose us over too?
No wonder the luck over there is PURE CRAP lately....
I hope BTCGuild catches and somehow perma-bans you too.

[Brucexie]

I am the owner of 17JkL94B2ngJg4QQZuiozDQjnxXB6B7yTc , 1Gu8zxRi8cyENV8CQe52D7QEsiZ7ruT73u.

Can you provide us with cryptographic proof of ownership?

No need, because whatever the end of this story is like, The speaking user "Brucexie" on bitcointalk cannot directly get even a cent from it.

17JkL94B2ngJg4QQZuiozDQjnxXB6B7yTc and 1Gu8zxRi8cyENV8CQe52D7QEsiZ7ruT73u will take all.

You can treat me as a volunteer if you don't believe.

[Brucexie]

Oh so now you are on BTCGuild trying to hose us over too?
No wonder the luck over there is PURE CRAP lately....
I hope BTCGuild catches and somehow perma-bans you too.

Now all payment to these 2 addresses is strictly monitored under its admin, after that incident.
We just mailed to BTCGuild to confirm that our incoming is deserved.

[RealMalatesta]

So if I understand this story correctly, you weren't witholding blocks deliberately you had faulty hardware.

BTCGuild (eleuthria) informed you of this after he noticed what was happening and your hardware was then fixed to work properly

The btc that eligius is witholding is from the period before btcguild when your hardware was faulty.

If this is the case I think he's correct, your hardware would never have solved a block and therefore isn't eligble for pooled rewards.

I have solved my issue at the beginning of the May, then we move to eligius for test, After we see block found by them, we move back to BTCguild.
You can see my block which was mined after May 1st on their list.
Is it clear?

Okay, so maybe a very stupid question. I am a small miner with some few TH/s. My miners are controlled through my desktop PC. There I have my wallet, and from my wallet, I transfer the  BTC to a more secure offline wallet.

Does it work similar when you have a 100+ TH/s operation? How does the setting look like?

[Tigggger]

So if I understand this story correctly, you weren't witholding blocks deliberately you had faulty hardware.

BTCGuild (eleuthria) informed you of this after he noticed what was happening and your hardware was then fixed to work properly

The btc that eligius is witholding is from the period before btcguild when your hardware was faulty.

If this is the case I think he's correct, your hardware would never have solved a block and therefore isn't eligble for pooled rewards.

I have solved my issue at the beginning of the May, then we move to eligius for test, After we see block found by them, we move back to BTCguild.
You can see my block which was mined after May 1st on their list.
Is it clear?

So you are saying that you only mined on eligius AFTER the hardware was fixed, and you were finding blocks and should be paid.

Eligius are saying that you mined with faulty hardware, weren't finding blocks, and therefore shouldn't be paid.

More detailed information would be needed to decide who is right, namely the dates, hashrate, shares and blocks found. GigaVPS has posted some numbers which seem to show that things aren't that bad statistically speaking.

[Brucexie]

So if I understand this story correctly, you weren't witholding blocks deliberately you had faulty hardware.

BTCGuild (eleuthria) informed you of this after he noticed what was happening and your hardware was then fixed to work properly

The btc that eligius is witholding is from the period before btcguild when your hardware was faulty.

If this is the case I think he's correct, your hardware would never have solved a block and therefore isn't eligble for pooled rewards.

I have solved my issue at the beginning of the May, then we move to eligius for test, After we see block found by them, we move back to BTCguild.
You can see my block which was mined after May 1st on their list.
Is it clear?

Okay, so maybe a very stupid question. I am a small miner with some few TH/s. My miners are controlled through my desktop PC. There I have my wallet, and from my wallet, I transfer the  BTC to a more secure offline wallet.

Does it work similar when you have a 100+ TH/s operation? How does the setting look like?

We do nearly the same thing.
But does this have anything related with this unpaid issue?