Eligius: 0% Fee BTC, 105% PPS NMC, No registration, CPPSRB

[sconklin321]

Why is the Eligius payout queue so ridiculously obtuse? Other pools don't have this problem.

Other pools hold the coins you earn and distribute them as you hit your payout threshold, the only time eligius does this is when it is in failsafe mode to prevent mining from shutting down.  Here they payout out people using the generation transaction, much like p2pool does, only eligius doesn't pay you each block, but when you've hit the payout threshold, you enter the payout queue.  The payout queue is then paid from the person who hasn't received a payout the longest, then the next, etc. until it has paid out 25 BTC + transaction fees.  Whoever is left gets pushed to the next block etc.  Right now it looks like you need to be 2 1/2 days old to hit the current payout block.

[baddw]

Why is the Eligius payout queue so ridiculously obtuse? Other pools don't have this problem.

It is a feature, not a bug.  Eligius is the only pool where the coins will show up in your wallet as "mined" and not transferred in.  This means that Eligius never holds the funds in a centralized location that can be hacked (well, not "never", but it tries hard to avoid it).  Eligius is what it is.  It is the fairest pool around.  In order to do that, the creators had to get creative.  If you don't like it, mine somewhere else.

[crashoveride54902]

It's called The Tragedy of the Commons.  A seminal paper was written in Science in 1968 by Garrett Hardin.  It happens with fishing, timber, open range grazing, and now bitcoin mining.

You are a peer to all the other miners.  To everyone else, you are one of the greedy others who is stealing their profits.

I don't know of anyone who has purchased mining equipment after the Batch #2 Avalons who has achieved breakeven, even though everyone has made ROI, whatever their own ROI number is.

well you don't know me but my knc jup has ROI'd and that was bought 2nd hand for around 25.4btc and the 2nd jup. i bought a cpl months ago is about to ROI too...but my 3rd nov jup i lost track on when it'll ROI if it will...but i'll just keep a mining

It's great to hear that you have made breakeven.  I looked at some Avalon modules today, and they are selling for almost 2X the expected return.  I don't know a way to buy more mining hardware and make money today.  I turned my Avalons off the first week in June.

well i've made profit off it now...nuff to buy more hw and the vicious cycle continues...buying 2nd hand is bout the only way to actually make money and even then you need to find a good deal which there isn't very many...like i bought 2 gridseeds for 30 bucks cause the guy thought they were broken...1 was fine other was broken as he said but taking off heatsink n moving black fan wire fixed it...think it was grounding something out...so that too ROI'd for me just gotta wait patiently for the good deals to roll around...but if you count my being scamed then i haven't ROI'd as i lost 21 coins

oh well i'm having fun and enjoy playing around with the mining hw i get

[organofcorti]

Why is the Eligius payout queue so ridiculously obtuse? Other pools don't have this problem.

It is a feature, not a bug.  Eligius is the only pool where the coins will show up in your wallet as "mined" and not transferred in.  This means that Eligius never holds the funds in a centralized location that can be hacked (well, not "never", but it tries hard to avoid it).  Eligius is what it is.  It is the fairest pool around.  In order to do that, the creators had to get creative.  If you don't like it, mine somewhere else.

If you mean the reward method is fairer than other reward methods then that's not really correct. I'm sure both Luke-jr and wk will both agree that PPS, PPLNS and DGM will all provide fair rewards to miners too.

[xstr8guy]

Why is the Eligius payout queue so ridiculously obtuse? Other pools don't have this problem.

It is a feature, not a bug.  Eligius is the only pool where the coins will show up in your wallet as "mined" and not transferred in.  This means that Eligius never holds the funds in a centralized location that can be hacked (well, not "never", but it tries hard to avoid it).  Eligius is what it is.  It is the fairest pool around.  In order to do that, the creators had to get creative.  If you don't like it, mine somewhere else.

I don't. And I do.

[baddw]

Why is the Eligius payout queue so ridiculously obtuse? Other pools don't have this problem.

It is a feature, not a bug.  Eligius is the only pool where the coins will show up in your wallet as "mined" and not transferred in.  This means that Eligius never holds the funds in a centralized location that can be hacked (well, not "never", but it tries hard to avoid it).  Eligius is what it is.  It is the fairest pool around.  In order to do that, the creators had to get creative.  If you don't like it, mine somewhere else.

If you mean the reward method is fairer than other reward methods then that's not really correct. I'm sure both Luke-jr and wk will both agree that PPS, PPLNS and DGM will all provide fair rewards to miners too.

Maybe "fair" was the wrong word.  In the long run, all of those methods will tend to converge on the same payout per hashrate.  

However, PPS has the least variance (which is a desirable trait), and CPPSRB is the only known-to-me version of PPS where a 0% fee is possible. 0% fees is its own kind of "fair" in that the pool operator is not profiting unduly -- although of course they should be entitled to cover their costs and to make a fair profit -- my point is that 0% is *inarguably* fair to miners, if perhaps making it harder for the pool operators.  Anything over 0% is, at the very least, arguable (although I don't see how anyone could *convincingly* argue that a 1% fee is unfair -- but a 1% fee pure-PPS pool would never survive).

CPPSRB has other "fairness" attributes too.  With backpay, you have the potential to earn full PPS for every share you've ever submitted.  PPLNS throws away shares after a given time frame; you will never earn anything for them.  I suppose that if the "N" in PPLNS is large enough, you get kind of the same thing (since shelved shares that are old enough are unlikely to ever be paid out).

[ProfMac]

Why is the Eligius payout queue so ridiculously obtuse? Other pools don't have this problem.

It is a feature, not a bug.  Eligius is the only pool where the coins will show up in your wallet as "mined" and not transferred in.  This means that Eligius never holds the funds in a centralized location that can be hacked (well, not "never", but it tries hard to avoid it).  Eligius is what it is.  It is the fairest pool around.  In order to do that, the creators had to get creative.  If you don't like it, mine somewhere else.

I don't. And I do.

I'm always curious.  What is it that you don't like about Eligius?

[organofcorti]

CPPSRB has other "fairness" attributes too.  With backpay, you have the potential to earn full PPS for every share you've ever submitted.  PPLNS throws away shares after a given time frame; you will never earn anything for them.  I suppose that if the "N" in PPLNS is large enough, you get kind of the same thing (since shelved shares that are old enough are unlikely to ever be paid out).

No, even if "N" is relatively small, you cant still expect to be paid the same as PPS for every share. A larger "N" just reduces variance. I'm not sure what "N" would equate with CPPSRB in terms of variance.

Over time both CPPSRB and PPLNS will converge to the expected value per share. I'm not sure what the difference in variance between the two is.

[crashoveride54902]

doesn't matter where you mine on a pool...in time it'll all be about the same...unless you wanna try n pool hop to try n get lucky streaks here and there but even then i doubt you'll get any better...and might even hurt yerself in the process...just pick a pool your happy with and go with...doesn't matter where but i love eligius

[sconklin321]

Why is the Eligius payout queue so ridiculously obtuse? Other pools don't have this problem.

It is a feature, not a bug.  Eligius is the only pool where the coins will show up in your wallet as "mined" and not transferred in.  This means that Eligius never holds the funds in a centralized location that can be hacked (well, not "never", but it tries hard to avoid it).  Eligius is what it is.  It is the fairest pool around.  In order to do that, the creators had to get creative.  If you don't like it, mine somewhere else.

I don't. And I do.

I'm always curious.  What is it that you don't like about Eligius?

From the sound of it, he doesn't like the security of not having to trust the pool op to not run away with your coins since it sounds like he's complaining about the length of the queue.  Usually it takes me more than 2 1/2 or 3 days to hit my payout so I get paid within a block or 2.  Even if it took longer, I wouldn't mind, especially since it's not like my coin is sitting in a wallet the WK can run off with (I'd trust him to not run off with it, even if it was in a wallet because time and again when the pool goes into failsafe, he makes a manual payout, usually within a couple of days and has never run off with anyone's BTC).  I've mined at ghash when I was new, but have connection issues.  I've also mined at P2Pool, but don't like the extreme variance that can occur there.  The only other pool I've mined at regularly that I would consider an option is BTCGuild, again though, eleuthria is another pool op that I think I can trust 100% with my coin. 

Now that I've gone off on a rant, I'd have to guess it's the 2 1/2 to 3 days between payments to mine a free pool.

[sconklin321]

Is there a problem with the signature verification on the stats configuration page?  I keep trying to make updates and it's not accepting my signature from Armory.

[xstr8guy]

Sorry, I don't mean to rag on Eligius. I think it's a fine pool and I agree that WK is 100% trustworthy. And my concerns aren't so much about the payout queue. But it is obviously concerning to a lot of people who post in this thread, lol.

What does concern me is the stability of the pool and the stats not working consistently. I certainly understand the problems that DDoS attacks can cause pools but it seems to affect Eligius more severely than it does some other pools.

[sconklin321]

Sorry, I don't mean to rag on Eligius. I think it's a fine pool and I agree that WK is 100% trustworthy. And my concerns aren't so much about the payout queue. But it is obviously concerning to a lot of people who post in this thread, lol.

What does concern me is the stability of the pool and the stats not working consistently. I certainly understand the problems that DDoS attacks can cause pools but it seems to affect Eligius more severely than it does some other pools.

I definitely understand people's concern, and understand exactly what you mean.  Sorry, when you commented on the payout queue being obtuse after everyone else was asking about payments, I took that to mean that you were looking for a faster queue.  As far as the stats go, I know I personally have never noticed my shares not counting if they were accepted, regardless of the stats situation.  I've always been paid for what I was expecting.  I am one of those people that like to update the stats page frequently, but when its down, it doesn't bother me because I know the pool is still working.  As long as I'm still getting credit, I personally could care less what the stats page says is going on.

[un_ordinateur]

CPPSRB has other "fairness" attributes too.  With backpay, you have the potential to earn full PPS for every share you've ever submitted.  PPLNS throws away shares after a given time frame; you will never earn anything for them.  I suppose that if the "N" in PPLNS is large enough, you get kind of the same thing (since shelved shares that are old enough are unlikely to ever be paid out).

No, even if "N" is relatively small, you cant still expect to be paid the same as PPS for every share. A larger "N" just reduces variance. I'm not sure what "N" would equate with CPPSRB in terms of variance.

Over time both CPPSRB and PPLNS will converge to the expected value per share. I'm not sure what the difference in variance between the two is.

CPPSRB and PPLNS are very similar. CPPSRB is usually presented as a variant of PPS, but it could as well be presented as a "PPLUNS: Pay per last unpaid N shares".

The difference is mostly for occasionnal miners I believe. In PPLNS, your reward are ONLY affected by the luck as you are mining/shortly after. If you submitted a share just before a luck round: cool! you get great rewart. If you submit it before an unlucky round, boo, you get nothing. After a while, your share is "lost", and any change in luck will nut change it.

In CPPSRB, even if you submit a share just before an unlucky round, and it gets shared, if it is lucky later on, even when you are not mining, it will be payed.

Of course both methods converge to fair PPS value. However, in PPLNS, only luck shortly after you have mined affect your payout, whereas in CPPSRB, any future luck even if you were not mining during the lucky round, will help your payout to converge.

[Bitskint]

I am Happy with Eligius, so do not hop around.

And even happier now that damned Hangover is gone 

[panpine]

I have just started mining on eligius and 13 hours no block , bad luck or some eligius frontend problem ?

[Bitskint]

I have just started mining on eligius and 13 hours no block , bad luck or some eligius frontend problem ?

Bad luck - though there is a block  we done within that time ***555 about 9 hours or so ago

[PlanetCrypto]

Yes this block has been/is a bitch.

I track Round Luck Since Last Payout.
For me that was on 2014-06-27 13:49:44 or about 71 hours ago at the time of this post.
RLSLP has dropped to 99.36%, had been >100% prior to this block.
As soon as this block is solved, RLSLP will exceed 100% again.

On a different topic, am VERY pleased with Eligius for a plethora of reasons and can't imagine mining anywhere else.
Thanks WK.

[amaclin]

I have just started mining on eligius and 13 hours no block , bad luck or some eligius frontend problem ?

68.168.105.168:8333 not responding
192.3.11.20:8333 not responding
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/pushtxn.php not working

 

[rkinnin]

I have just started mining on eligius and 13 hours no block , bad luck or some eligius frontend problem ?

68.168.105.168:8333 not responding
192.3.11.20:8333 not responding
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/pushtxn.php not working

 

I would agree...

The "Estimated Position in Payout Queue" just has not moved at all from my side and I have not seen any updates since at least 10pm EDT last night.