Sportsbet.io's English Premier League Football Pool Discussion Thread

[Hhampuz]

I think VAR is great and in a few years it will play a key role but then thing I don't understand is why they don't have the TV on the sideline that the ref can look at. As it stands now someone that sits in the VAR room can't (no matter how much they look at video) see the same things that the ref on the pitch can. They should relay information and let the head ref take a look at rather than telling him what they see. Not sure if this is only in PL as I don't follow a lot of other leagues but yeah, just my 2 satoshis on the whole VAR debate.

[hilariousetc]

I think VAR is great and in a few years it will play a key role but then thing I don't understand is why they don't have the TV on the sideline that the ref can look at. As it stands now someone that sits in the VAR room can't (no matter how much they look at video) see the same things that the ref on the pitch can. They should relay information and let the head ref take a look at rather than telling him what they see. Not sure if this is only in PL as I don't follow a lot of other leagues but yeah, just my 2 satoshis on the whole VAR debate.

They do have it there as far as I'm aware, but I think they only consult it when it's deemed absolutely necessary, which is seemingly hardly ever. It seemed to happen a lot more in the EUROs and World Cup as the refs were trotting to the sidelines quite a lot in the games I remember watching. I would argue the opposite though and I think checking it is a waste of time and just adds to the farce. There's already a handful of officials viewing it and if they can't make their mind up then that should tell you everything. Let them make the decisions to speed things up. The ref will already have his view/opinion from what he saw but VAR is there to try make up for things the officials miss, which can be quite a lot as they can't see everything but that's just a part of the game and at this point I'd prefer it if most things were just left to them. There's already a huge issue in football with the ball being out of play almost as much as it's in and when we're having to take time out for VAR decisions it's just adding to that and even more so if we're having the refs run over to the sideline to watch ten replays.

[DeathAngel]

Like any new technology it takes time to be perfect. VAR will get better, I don’t see many decisions that are wrong just lots of fans moaning who get affected by VAR decisions. Those decisions in the Liverpool vs Wolves game were correct.

[Hhampuz]

I think VAR is great and in a few years it will play a key role but then thing I don't understand is why they don't have the TV on the sideline that the ref can look at. As it stands now someone that sits in the VAR room can't (no matter how much they look at video) see the same things that the ref on the pitch can. They should relay information and let the head ref take a look at rather than telling him what they see. Not sure if this is only in PL as I don't follow a lot of other leagues but yeah, just my 2 satoshis on the whole VAR debate.

They do have it there as far as I'm aware, but I think they only consult it when it's deemed absolutely necessary, which is seemingly hardly ever. It seemed to happen a lot more in the EUROs and World Cup as the refs were trotting to the sidelines quite a lot in the games I remember watching. I would argue the opposite though and I think checking it is a waste of time and just adds to the farce. There's already a handful of officials viewing it and if they can't make their mind up then that should tell you everything. Let them make the decisions to speed things up. The ref will already have his view/opinion from what he saw but VAR is there to try make up for things the officials miss, which can be quite a lot as they can't see everything but that's just a part of the game and at this point I'd prefer it if most things were just left to them. There's already a huge issue in football with the ball being out of play almost as much as it's in and when we're having to take time out for VAR decisions it's just adding to that and even more so if we're having the refs run over to the sideline to watch ten replays.

I get what you are saying but I don't mean they should look at offsides and stuff like that - more things that happen which they can't see. Like foul play that is obvious but for some reason no refs can see it and so then instead of someone in a room making the decision it would be better, IMO, if the head ref gets to see it from one of the cameras. But I've found that I'm quite alone in my opinion of liking VAR 

[buwaytress]

Well, what do you know, I actually climbed into 20th spot. Still exactly 30.5 points from #1, but at least I know I can keep in touch (I'm being Watford here and insisting maths is still on my side haha).

19.5 points from 5th spot too, so I shouldn't be TOO discouraged.

@hilarious: re referee interfering with play, I absolutely am in favor for a consistent approach. Like you said, we've seen the dropball happen before, so let's make it happen every time ref gets in the way. The purist in me says football goes on no matter what (and as a Pool fan who lost to a beach ball goal, I can stand by that decision 100% because football is about flow) BUT if we want to prevent unfair goals, which is the whole point of VAR review, then yeah let's be consistent.

[hilariousetc]

Like any new technology it takes time to be perfect. VAR will get better, I don’t see many decisions that are wrong just lots of fans moaning who get affected by VAR decisions.

Fans are bound to whinge when things don't go their way but I'm a neutral so the outcomes don't really effect me but the time-wasting in games due to VAR and goals being disallowed over other minor things is annoying to watch. I don't think there's much they can do to improve VAR directly unless they have the cameras running up and down the pitch with the action but it's the other rules and regulations that need to be changed really and how they're enforced with VAR. My main gripe is them checking every goal needlessly and the pedantic examining of offsides. Don't check for everything and give the teams three appeals only. This will speed the game up and likely lead to only the right or at least most important calls being asked to be examined. Even the Ifab general secretary has said that VAR isn't really being used how it was intended:

Football’s law-makers have suggested that the Premier League are not using the Video Assistant Referee (VAR) system correctly by reiterating that it should only be used to correct “clear and obvious” errors, and should not be relied upon to try and pinpoint marginal offside calls that require lengthy stoppages to identify.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/premier-league-var-wrong-offside-review-ifab-goals-replays-a9264306.html

Those decisions in the Liverpool vs Wolves game were correct.

Maybe, but I'd really love to see an image of the above without the hand and from an angle that is looking straight down the line. That knee could be playing him on but regardless these sorts of calls in my opinion should go under clear and obvious, which this obviously isn't. There's also the Van Dijk handball:

https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/29/referee-var-not-give-virgil-van-dijk-handball-liverpool-vs-wolves-11973534/?ito=cbshare

According to Sky Sports, VAR checked the replay and claimed the ‘evidence is inconclusive’. But according to beIN Sports, the match referee Anthony Taylor told Wolves’ technical staff that Van Dijk’s handball was ‘too far back in the move’ to be considered.

I'm not sure how far back something counts but I've seen games pulled back by ridiculous amounts to give a decision that disallowed a goal. Can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head in the Premier League but the one in the Portugal game was a shocker and there's been a fair few in the Champion's League but I know those aren't relevant to this argument as the PL implements VAR differently.

@hilarious: re referee interfering with play, I absolutely am in favor for a consistent approach. Like you said, we've seen the dropball happen before, so let's make it happen every time ref gets in the way. The purist in me says football goes on no matter what (and as a Pool fan who lost to a beach ball goal, I can stand by that decision 100% because football is about flow) BUT if we want to prevent unfair goals, which is the whole point of VAR review, then yeah let's be consistent.

I don't know why they even brought that change in. It just slows things down. If it hits the ref then it hits the ref. Just play on. Players know where the ref is or at the very least just adapt to it if it accidentally hits him. What if the ball hits a tuft of grass or a divot on the field that sends the ball to the opposite player? Drop ball for that as well? Shit happens. The governing bodies know that there's a huge problem with the flow of the game and the issue of the ball being out of play along with players time wasting and yet the changes they've made have only added to that considerably.

[Mbitr]

Nice short and sensible article on VAR here

https://www.givemesport.com/1533656-var-chaos-five-ways-the-premier-league-can-fix-ridiculous-offside-calls?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=web-view&utm_campaign=organic-social

I’ve always thought the cricket way is the best, having 1-2 reviews that only the captain can call .
Souness’s call is pretty good too.
But we must keep VAR and it will improve over time

[cryptofrka]

...

Yep, all valid points. I'm also not for measuring pubic hair when determining if a player is onside or not. Let the referee check, if they are not sure they can either allow the goal or stay with their initial decision.
Disallowing goals when unsure is a step backwards. When we will have clear and 100% exact images, 1mm offside is offside. Now, when we can't be sure, attackers cannot be blamed for VAR inefficiency.

I think VAR is great and in a few years it will play a key role but then thing I don't understand is why they don't have the TV on the sideline that the ref can look at. As it stands now someone that sits in the VAR room can't (no matter how much they look at video) see the same things that the ref on the pitch can. They should relay information and let the head ref take a look at rather than telling him what they see. Not sure if this is only in PL as I don't follow a lot of other leagues but yeah, just my 2 satoshis on the whole VAR debate.

They do, just not in England. England's football association decided they want a 'VAR room' that will decide instead of a referee on the pitch.

[tomahawk9]

The FA really needs to change its VAR rules.

Nah, i actually like it. I like how they stay consistent, if Pukki's goal vs Spurs was ruled out because of milimiters, then the same should apply to Neto's goal.

I don't think it is consistent though. Sure, they seem to be disallowing a lot of goals for the same thing, but there was one instance a while back where a goal was deemed offside but it actually wasn't. <snip>

I was referring to both goals that were dissallowed just last weekend (:  But you're right, before the last Matchweek the VAR have had some pretty awful performances with extremely dubious calls in pretty much every single league where it's been implemented.

Sure, it would have been great to rule out Maradona's Hand of God back in the day but many seem to think that ruling goals offside for millimetres is overkill and unnecessary.

I honestly think this is exactly what the VAR was made for: to correct those tiny little things the human eye simply cannot see.

pube-hair offside and it's just killing the game.

LOL 

Goal-line technology seems to have got it right and its instantaneous. The ball goes over the line and the ref gets a buzz to alert him straight away. If it doesn't go over the ref knows and the game continues without any stoppages.

Goal-line technology is automated, that's why the images come out in almost real-time, while VAR is managed by a group of people. Maybe if football players were to use some kind of sensors in their boots and on their shirts, there wouldn't be that much delay.

[LTU_btc]

Yesterday in City - Sheffield game was another VAR contraversy when Sheffield goal was cancelled after minor offside. When it's question of milimetres it really looks ridiculous when VAR start to draw all these lines. Who can guarantee that these lines is 100% accurate when there is no straight camera angle and it's not in the same line as players. Maybe they need to use 360 degree camera for VAR, which is used in LaLiga or NBA for replays - https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/tech-news-la-liga-amps-football-viewing-experience-360-degree-videos-thanks-intel-true-view
But I don't understand why there is no big VAR scandals in other major leagues, when in EPL we have VAR contraversy almost each weekend. Yes, shit happens there too, but it's very rare comapred with EPL. Is it all about competence of refrees and VAR room?

I don't know why they even brought that change in. It just slows things down. If it hits the ref then it hits the ref. Just play on. Players know where the ref is or at the very least just adapt to it if it accidentally hits him. What if the ball hits a tuft of grass or a divot on the field that sends the ball to the opposite player? Drop ball for that as well? Shit happens. The governing bodies know that there's a huge problem with the flow of the game and the issue of the ball being out of play along with players time wasting and yet the changes they've made have only added to that considerably.

I agree. Refere in such cases always been considered as part of pitch, same like tuft of grass and if ball hits him, game continues like nothing didn't happened. I can't understand why they changed this rule.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Guys, round 21st is starting from tomorrow. Make sure you work out with you picks. Yesterday was a boring day and so will be today I guess since no football until tomorrow. I already done my picks. Norwich vs Palace, Watford vs Wolves, Burnley vs Villa, West Ham vs Bournemouth and Arsenal vs Utd seems tricky ones. I am having this feeling that this round will not be an easy one for most of the teams and for the pool too.


By the way, this is what I got from superbru for the last round:




I am wondering what tomahawk9 received from them since they had a really good round. 😀

[Trofo]

By the way, this is what I got from superbru for the last round:




I am wondering what tomahawk9 received from them since they had a really good round. 😀

That message only looks at percentage of correct results. Unfortunately, I often have very good percentage of correct results, even close scores but I can't get exact score in Premier League and they are the ones that are making the difference. This week for instance 4 close scores and 4 results while 0 correct scores which makes great 8/10 in the message and really bad result in our pool

[hilariousetc]

Sure, it would have been great to rule out Maradona's Hand of God back in the day but many seem to think that ruling goals offside for millimetres is overkill and unnecessary.

I honestly think this is exactly what the VAR was made for: to correct those tiny little things the human eye simply cannot see.

Well you can certainly make a case for that, but I've always had an issue with the off-side rule. It's meant to stop goal hanging, not miss-timed runs by millimetres or a split-second. My main issue though is it slowing down the game and drastically so. The governing bodies know there's a huge issue with the amount of time the ball is actually in play and they're currently looking at ways to prevent that, but VAR is the biggest waste of time now. I can't see them ever changing the off side rule, but they can stop looking at every goal and just go to an appeal system. I think that would speed things up. I don't have a problem with VAR but just use it when it's needed or called for by the players and everything will run a lot smoother.

Goal-line technology seems to have got it right and its instantaneous. The ball goes over the line and the ref gets a buzz to alert him straight away. If it doesn't go over the ref knows and the game continues without any stoppages.

Goal-line technology is automated, that's why the images come out in almost real-time, while VAR is managed by a group of people. Maybe if football players were to use some kind of sensors in their boots and on their shirts, there wouldn't be that much delay.

I think this would all be going overkill really. I'd rather have VAR scrapped than having sensors in boots and stuff. I think it would be very hard to implement as well. It's pretty easy to do with stationery goalposts but not so much players. The only way you can effectively police offside is with more cameras and better cam technology. Maybe instead of cameras running up and down the pitch they can use some sort of overhead one but it would have to keep in line with the action unless they can develop ones that can view the entire pitch at once. Maybe they'll be using CIA satellites next to zoom in on the action from above  .

[big_daddy]

Do not forget to pick your scores tomorrow, I’ve just picked mine

good luck wish you all the best in the 2020 year

[BitSat19]

Do not forget to pick your scores tomorrow, I’ve just picked mine

good luck wish you all the best in the 2020 year

Thanks for reminder Happy new year to all fellows 

[Mbitr]

Wakey wakey  all . Get your picks in !!
Happy new year folks and may it be full of good fortune.

[Trofo]

Happy New Year to ye all, and may there be many forgotten picks or last minute changes from correct score to loosing one 

I know I am prone to that last minute changes and they are almost always worse picks then I had before so one of my NY resolutions is to stick with first choice.

[DeathAngel]

Happy New Year to ye all, and may there be many forgotten picks or last minute changes from correct score to loosing one 

I know I am prone to that last minute changes and they are almost always worse picks then I had before so one of my NY resolutions is to stick with first choice.

Happy NY, my predictions are in & I’m just sitting down to watch Brighton vs Chelsea. I hope for a better 2020 in my predictions than I did in 2019

[hilariousetc]

I've got a feeling this is going to be another disastrous wooden spoon round for me. I've mostly gone for draws as I can't split most of these games except for the Liverpool and Man City matches which I've gone with obvious home wins. Gone for both 1-1s in the games currently playing now and Aston Villa are currently 2-0 up away and Chelsea 1-0 up away. Hopefully Brighton will equalise in the Chelsea game and that one will come in for me but I doubt it. Only game I'll bother watching today is the Arsenal / Man U game which I've gone for another draw. There's the huge West Bromwich Albion - Leeds United game in the Championship as well which will decide 1st position. Hoping Leeds get promoted this year as they've been out of the Prem League for far too long and it's looking pretty strong with 9 points between the automatic promotion places as it stands.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

^^
Draws are always risky and I rarely go with Draws. When I do I actually give up on that match which means anything which I get from that match is a bonus for me. This Burnley match was tricky and I was having hard time to select a winner. And now looking at the match they way it's progressing, it's very much clear that I was with the wrong team. Villa will win the match or the worse will be a draw for them. Scoring 3 goals in less than 15 minutes (possibly including the extra times) is something very unreal to expect from Burnley.