28nm ** 1T ** 900W【JingTian miner】 in production !!!

[JointDoctor]

I´m a little bit confused.... how many representatives for the JingTian miner is on bitcointalk?

(Seeksilence, skyfromwell and JT miner)

It is confusing, but I think at least three different Chinese companies are currently offering similar 1TH products that all seem to be using the Bitmine A1 chips.

There´s more like 4+ different companies selling these 1TH miners. They´re all using the same blade design, A1 chips, raspberries, etc... the only difference between them is the casing and the color of the cables (From what have been revealed so far).

Yes,... and pricing from $5000 to $8000

Generally funny, I have ordered miners from Bitmine, already two months late. Now i can get faster from Chinese manufacturers than directly from Bitminy. Crazy.

As low as 4200 USD right now to be correct. 
And hey, the Bitmine situation is truly fucked up.. sorry for your loss.

[1714304472]

1714304472

[1714304472]

1714304472

[skyfromwell]

I´m a little bit confused.... how many representatives for the JingTian miner is on bitcointalk?

(Seeksilence, skyfromwell and JT miner)

Yes. Those are from my company.

[JointDoctor]

I´m a little bit confused.... how many representatives for the JingTian miner is on bitcointalk?

(Seeksilence, skyfromwell and JT miner)

Yes. Those are from my company.

Alright, thanks for making that official 
How about the pictures from the demonstration you held, will they be uploaded soon?

[skyfromwell]

I´m a little bit confused.... how many representatives for the JingTian miner is on bitcointalk?

(Seeksilence, skyfromwell and JT miner)

It is confusing, but I think at least three different Chinese companies are currently offering similar 1TH products that all seem to be using the Bitmine A1 chips.

There´s more like 4+ different companies selling these 1TH miners. They´re all using the same blade design, A1 chips, raspberries, etc... the only difference between them is the casing and the color of the cables (From what have been revealed so far).

The one you see here is original and others are copycats.

There are major differences:

1. Our system as CK already saw it, is made with high quality part. So you can overclock using ours, but DON'T try that with copycats.
Unless you don't mind to turn your system into a toast.

2. Our system you can go around 1.2T.

3. You know we are designed for rigs.

4. The MCU enabled with communication boards are original created by us. And copycats are all following up.

Copycat system a little bit cheaper because they don't spend on research but also they don't use high quality parts.

[skyfromwell]

I´m a little bit confused.... how many representatives for the JingTian miner is on bitcointalk?

(Seeksilence, skyfromwell and JT miner)

Yes. Those are from my company.

Alright, thanks for making that official 
How about the pictures from the demonstration you held, will they be uploaded soon?

I will let someone put more pictures here.

I need to pick up my system now. LOL. I will try to do a good over clock then report to your guys.

[bobsag3]

I´m a little bit confused.... how many representatives for the JingTian miner is on bitcointalk?

(Seeksilence, skyfromwell and JT miner)

Yes. Those are from my company.

Alright, thanks for making that official 
How about the pictures from the demonstration you held, will they be uploaded soon?

I will let someone put more pictures here.

I need to pick up my system now. LOL. I will try to do a good over clock then report to your guys.

Im looking forward to the OC guide- Do you think a EVGA 1300W g2 is enough to overclock, or should we get something higher?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438011

[QuestionTime]

It is as simple as that.

Bitmine and Innosilicon worked together to produce the chips, so both of them have rights to produce/resell the chips.

But even as Bitmine had an early start on availability of chips and great cheap costs, they FAILED to deliver their system successfuly and on time.

So AFTER my systems of 60T RUNNING over 1 month, and start to sell to public, Bitmine's system still NOT seeying anywhere.

From pespective of marketing strategy, this accusation is just a tactic to slow down our sales.

I agree. Both Bitmine and Bitmine and Innosilicon worked together to develop the chips, and no-one has posted any proof as to exactly what legal rights Innosilicon has to resell the chips, but it's certainly plausible that they do have some resale agreement based on the contract between the two companies. Innosilicon could have paid for part of the development in order to be able to retain some ownership of the IP.

It sounds like QuestionTime is simply spreading FUD to try to show down a potential competitor to Bitmine. Either post proof to back up your claims of IP theft or STFU.

If you check the news http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=863, you should know bitmine is just in co-operation with some Chinese company. They just bought the chip from the Chinese company and name it as "Coincraft A1" chip. The Chinese company can also sell the A1 chip. They can call it any name they want like "ABC A1" chip. So the question comes: Does the "Coincraft A1" chip means "A1" chip？I don't think so. This is something like Mcdonalds can make their hamburger and KFC can make their own too.

We do NOT buy chips from bitmine and have no business with them.

From that link:

Designed from scratch, Bitmine’s Coincraft A1 is a third generation Bitcoin Mining IC developed by Bitmine in co-operation with a team of expert engineers from Innosilicon.

Doesn't say bitmine bought the chip from a Chinese company.

I'm assuming that the R&D funds came from bitmine and it's customers and that Innosilicon was contracted by bitmine for R&D, ergo, bitmine retains IP rights of the A1 chip. Unless the use of the A1 chip in these Chinese 28nm miners has been authorised by bitmine, what we're seeing here is corporate theft and entities being in possession of or receiving these miners, liable for a criminal offence.

Precisely, we are the owner of the IP inside the A1 chip and the major contributor to the know-how of the inner workings that led to its development. We are aware of things like the one happening here and we even made a press release news concerning this matter:

http://bitmine.ch/?p=5178

Whoever purchases these does that on its own risk and may be liable in its own country since we hold IP on that.

Yes, that's China.

Authorised distributors of bitmine tech: http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=5204 - unless the chips were sourced from one of these guys or bitmine themselves it's corporate theft.

Bitmine have already made themselves quite clear on the issue and until they've made a statement retracting the previous statement it's much more likely the the statement was deleted/moderated rather than retracted. Furthermore, we have yet to hear anything from Innosilicon to suggest that they have obtained the rights from bitmine to produce these chips for sale.

Certainly it's plausible Innosillion also have the rights to sell the chip, but it is also certainly plausible Innosilicon does not have the rights to sell the chip. In the absence of an official statement from Innosilicon contradicting the official statement from bitmine and the presence of the well known culture of rampant IP theft that goes on in China, on the balance of probabilities, it is much more likely the Chinese machines using 28nm A1 chips from Innosilicon are the product of stolen property and therefore illegal to receive and/or possess in most common law jurisdictions.

Customers have the right to purchase goods that are 100% legitimately manufactured. I would not want to buy a car that has been assembled from stolen parts.

[seeksilence]

All time total payout: 321.92650637 BTC + 24.80077329 BTC Unpaid Balance  

--------------------------------------------------------
Recent summary:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5571215#msg5571215
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5572959#msg5572959

for @QuestionTime : We reserve our right to take legal action for your libel!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5579060#msg5579060

Bitmine and Innosilicon worked together to produce the chips, so both of them have rights to produce/resell the chips.

[QuestionTime]

I want one of these but don't have enough BTC left, spent it all on Ants!

Smart man Better price performance, delivering now, and manufactured from 100% legally obtained parts.

[QuestionTime]

All time total payout: 321.92650637 BTC + 24.80077329 BTC Unpaid Balance  

--------------------------------------------------------
Recent summary:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5571215#msg5571215
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5572959#msg5572959

for @QuestionTime
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5579060#msg5579060

Bitmine and Innosilicon worked together to produce the chips, so both of them have rights to produce/resell the chips.

If you check the news http://bitmine.ch/?page_id=863, you should know bitmine is just in co-operation with some Chinese company. They just bought the chip from the Chinese company and name it as "Coincraft A1" chip. The Chinese company can also sell the A1 chip. They can call it any name they want like "ABC A1" chip. So the question comes: Does the "Coincraft A1" chip means "A1" chip？I don't think so. This is something like Mcdonalds can make their hamburger and KFC can make their own too.

We do NOT buy chips from bitmine and have no business with them.

From that link:

Designed from scratch, Bitmine’s Coincraft A1 is a third generation Bitcoin Mining IC developed by Bitmine in co-operation with a team of expert engineers from Innosilicon.

Doesn't say bitmine bought the chip from a Chinese company.

I'm assuming that the R&D funds came from bitmine and it's customers and that Innosilicon was contracted by bitmine for R&D, ergo, bitmine retains IP rights of the A1 chip. Unless the use of the A1 chip in these Chinese 28nm miners has been authorised by bitmine, what we're seeing here is corporate theft and entities being in possession of or receiving these miners, liable for a criminal offence.

Precisely, we are the owner of the IP inside the A1 chip and the major contributor to the know-how of the inner workings that led to its development. We are aware of things like the one happening here and we even made a press release news concerning this matter:

http://bitmine.ch/?p=5178

Whoever purchases these does that on its own risk and may be liable in its own country since we hold IP on that.

Yes, that's China.

Bitmine doesn't think so. Until Innosilicon produces a statement contradicting bitmine's statement, it's bitmine's statement which carries weight.

[Easy2Mine]

Does Jing Tian miner means "Today's miner" ?

I am interessted in your miners, but 8000 dollar is way too high.
For example, a november KnC was priced at $ 5,585.24 ships to The Netherlands.
They were doing average 670 GH/s, with the new firmware they a doing 700+.
For example I use 670 GH/s.
$ 5,585.24/670 GH/s=8,336179104477612 $ per GH/s delivered end november and begin december.
Your miners are 8 dollars per GH/s delivered at mid March.

You called your competitors copycats, but why are their websites registered before yours and launched before yours?
They also start to bulk ship at mid March, but at 19999 renminbi (Yuan), which is  $ 3266,22 and on par or a bit cheaper than BITMAIN Antminer S1 per Dollar per GH/s.

Your product doesn't have any advantage  over the other manufacturers.
I am not attacking you, but I am stuck wit questions.
Can you please answer them?

[nexus99]

3000 is the sweet spot for device.

[skyfromwell]

I´m a little bit confused.... how many representatives for the JingTian miner is on bitcointalk?

(Seeksilence, skyfromwell and JT miner)

Yes. Those are from my company.

Alright, thanks for making that official 
How about the pictures from the demonstration you held, will they be uploaded soon?

I will let someone put more pictures here.

I need to pick up my system now. LOL. I will try to do a good over clock then report to your guys.

Im looking forward to the OC guide- Do you think a EVGA 1300W g2 is enough to overclock, or should we get something higher?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438011

Bob, it is not problem of the power. It is the problem with the system you got. LOL.

Don't over-clock it. The one who sell to you using cheap components in the board, so over-clock is NOT going to work there.

[skyfromwell]

Does Jing Tian miner means "Today's miner" ?

I am interessted in your miners, but 8000 dollar is way too high.
For example, a november KnC was priced at $ 5,585.24 ships to The Netherlands.
They were doing average 670 GH/s, with the new firmware they a doing 700+.
For example I use 670 GH/s.
$ 5,585.24/670 GH/s=8,336179104477612 $ per GH/s delivered end november and begin december.
Your miners are 8 dollars per GH/s delivered at mid March.

You called your competitors copycats, but why are their websites registered before yours and launched before yours?
They also start to bulk ship at mid March, but at 19999 renminbi (Yuan), which is  $ 3266,22 and on par or a bit cheaper than BITMAIN Antminer S1 per Dollar per GH/s.

Your product doesn't have any advantage  over the other manufacturers.
I am not attacking you, but I am stuck wit questions.
Can you please answer them?

It is simple.

Our first 1300 systems are being purchased by the mining facility. You can see the video on Youtube posted here. That is why we act late for sell publicly. And the website stuff.
Also the price is no longer 8K, but around 5.5K now.
About the 19999 RMB, that is a market trick, the true story is whatever system you bought from them, they will mine freely for first 10 days before ship to you. But even that, they barely make even at that price level (even considering cheap components).
But why they do that?

1. They want to kill all competitors off.

2. If they can do that, they will be the only A1 system maker in China so they can go back to push the chip prices down.

But so far, they didn't sell too much, and chip makers are not back down. So every interesting ahead...

[bobsag3]

I´m a little bit confused.... how many representatives for the JingTian miner is on bitcointalk?

(Seeksilence, skyfromwell and JT miner)

Yes. Those are from my company.

Alright, thanks for making that official  
How about the pictures from the demonstration you held, will they be uploaded soon?

I will let someone put more pictures here.

I need to pick up my system now. LOL. I will try to do a good over clock then report to your guys.

Im looking forward to the OC guide- Do you think a EVGA 1300W g2 is enough to overclock, or should we get something higher?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438011

Bob, it is not problem of the power. It is the problem with the system you got. LOL.

Don't over-clock it. The one who sell to you using cheap components in the board, so over-clock is NOT going to work there.

Please stop telling me what I do or dont have. These are not knockoffs- I have been running them OC for weeks now, and they also look identical to all the other units me and my assosiates purchased. Same design, PCBs chips, etc as the legitimate ones. Oh, and and the PCBs + parts numbers match up with the ones your selling directly.

[nexus99]

Does Jing Tian miner means "Today's miner" ?

I am interessted in your miners, but 8000 dollar is way too high.
For example, a november KnC was priced at $ 5,585.24 ships to The Netherlands.
They were doing average 670 GH/s, with the new firmware they a doing 700+.
For example I use 670 GH/s.
$ 5,585.24/670 GH/s=8,336179104477612 $ per GH/s delivered end november and begin december.
Your miners are 8 dollars per GH/s delivered at mid March.

You called your competitors copycats, but why are their websites registered before yours and launched before yours?
They also start to bulk ship at mid March, but at 19999 renminbi (Yuan), which is  $ 3266,22 and on par or a bit cheaper than BITMAIN Antminer S1 per Dollar per GH/s.

Your product doesn't have any advantage  over the other manufacturers.
I am not attacking you, but I am stuck wit questions.
Can you please answer them?

It is simple.

Our first 1300 systems are being purchased by the mining facility. You can see the video on Youtube posted here. That is why we act late for sell publicly. And the website stuff.
Also the price is no longer 8K, but around 5.5K now.
About the 19999 RMB, that is a market trick, the true story is whatever system you bought from them, they will mine freely for first 10 days before ship to you. But even that, they barely make even at that price level (even considering cheap components).
But why they do that?

1. They want to kill all competitors off.

2. If they can do that, they will be the only A1 system maker in China so they can go back to push the chip prices down.

But so far, they didn't sell too much, and chip makers are not back down. So every interesting ahead...

3K is the magic number for sales.

[seeksilence]

Your miner is not from us and it is not the same as JTminer. Basically, the JTminer with smaller size is much stable and can do overclock. Please ask the suggestion from who you bought it if you want to do overclock. We are not responsible for what is not from us. Thanks.

Recent summary:
Advantage and difference from other miner:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5571215#msg5571215
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5580260#msg5580260
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5580260#msg5580260

---------------------------------------------
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5572959#msg5572959
Bitmine and Innosilicon worked together to produce the chips, so both of them have rights to produce/resell the chips.

for @QuestionTime : We reserve our right to take legal action for your libel!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5579060#msg5579060

I´m a little bit confused.... how many representatives for the JingTian miner is on bitcointalk?

(Seeksilence, skyfromwell and JT miner)

Yes. Those are from my company.

Alright, thanks for making that official  
How about the pictures from the demonstration you held, will they be uploaded soon?

I will let someone put more pictures here.

I need to pick up my system now. LOL. I will try to do a good over clock then report to your guys.

Im looking forward to the OC guide- Do you think a EVGA 1300W g2 is enough to overclock, or should we get something higher?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438011

Bob, it is not problem of the power. It is the problem with the system you got. LOL.

Don't over-clock it. The one who sell to you using cheap components in the board, so over-clock is NOT going to work there.

Please stop telling me what I do or dont have. These are not knockoffs- I have been running them OC for weeks now, and they also look identical to all the other units me and my assosiates purchased. Same design, PCBs chips, etc as the legitimate ones. Oh, and and the PCBs + parts numbers match up with the ones your selling directly.

[QuestionTime]

Your miner is not from us and it is not the same as JTminer. Basically, the JTminer with smaller size is much stable and can do overclock. Please ask the suggestion from who you bought it if you want to do overclock. We are not responsible for what is not from us. Thanks.

Recent summary:
Advantage and difference from other miner:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5571215#msg5571215
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5580260#msg5580260
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5580260#msg5580260

---------------------------------------------
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5572959#msg5572959
Bitmine and Innosilicon worked together to produce the chips, so both of them have rights to produce/resell the chips.

for @QuestionTime : We reserve our right to take legal action for your libel!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5579060#msg5579060

I´m a little bit confused.... how many representatives for the JingTian miner is on bitcointalk?

(Seeksilence, skyfromwell and JT miner)

Yes. Those are from my company.

Alright, thanks for making that official  
How about the pictures from the demonstration you held, will they be uploaded soon?

I will let someone put more pictures here.

I need to pick up my system now. LOL. I will try to do a good over clock then report to your guys.

Im looking forward to the OC guide- Do you think a EVGA 1300W g2 is enough to overclock, or should we get something higher?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438011

Bob, it is not problem of the power. It is the problem with the system you got. LOL.

Don't over-clock it. The one who sell to you using cheap components in the board, so over-clock is NOT going to work there.

Please stop telling me what I do or dont have. These are not knockoffs- I have been running them OC for weeks now, and they also look identical to all the other units me and my assosiates purchased. Same design, PCBs chips, etc as the legitimate ones. Oh, and and the PCBs + parts numbers match up with the ones your selling directly.

JT, it seems like a Chinese manufacturer has ripped off your designs and is selling them as their own. Wait.. where have I seen that before  

Libel? It sounds like you have a statement from Innosillicon contradicting bitmine's claims. Please do share.

[silver71]

Your miner is not from us and it is not the same as JTminer. Basically, the JTminer with smaller size is much stable and can do overclock. Please ask the suggestion from who you bought it if you want to do overclock. We are not responsible for what is not from us. Thanks.

Recent summary:
Advantage and difference from other miner:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5571215#msg5571215
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5580260#msg5580260
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5580260#msg5580260

---------------------------------------------
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5572959#msg5572959
Bitmine and Innosilicon worked together to produce the chips, so both of them have rights to produce/resell the chips.

for @QuestionTime : We reserve our right to take legal action for your libel!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470386.msg5579060#msg5579060

I´m a little bit confused.... how many representatives for the JingTian miner is on bitcointalk?

(Seeksilence, skyfromwell and JT miner)

Yes. Those are from my company.

Alright, thanks for making that official  
How about the pictures from the demonstration you held, will they be uploaded soon?

I will let someone put more pictures here.

I need to pick up my system now. LOL. I will try to do a good over clock then report to your guys.

Im looking forward to the OC guide- Do you think a EVGA 1300W g2 is enough to overclock, or should we get something higher?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438011

Bob, it is not problem of the power. It is the problem with the system you got. LOL.

Don't over-clock it. The one who sell to you using cheap components in the board, so over-clock is NOT going to work there.

Please stop telling me what I do or dont have. These are not knockoffs- I have been running them OC for weeks now, and they also look identical to all the other units me and my assosiates purchased. Same design, PCBs chips, etc as the legitimate ones. Oh, and and the PCBs + parts numbers match up with the ones your selling directly.

JT, it seems like a Chinese manufacturer has ripped off your designs and is selling them as their own. Wait.. where have I seen that before  

Libel? It sounds like you have a statement from Innosillicon contradicting bitmine's claims. Please do share.

What is actually Innosilicon's current position on this matter is this, and I quote from their web :
"Innosilicon Announce its 28nm Bitcoin Mining IP core in Production
Innosilicon is proudly announcing that BitMine AG, a leading bitcoin mining system supplier, has licensed its ultra low power Hash IP Core for production at GF 28nm HPP process. This IP is designed from scratch using patent pending, customized VLSI computational Marco cells developed to squeeze the best possible power efficiency in 28nm. Its ultra high power efficiency and thermal reliability allows BitMine AG to pack just the right amount of innovative hash horse power inside a A1 CoinCraft ASIC. The availability of this 28nm hardened IP core instantly raised the bar in a crowded 28nm bitcoin mining ASIC field."

This might mean, that :

a) Bitmine.ch has patented (patent pending), their HPP proces (sublicenced from GF and forked), based on their Bitcoin Mining IP core
b) Innosilicon has given permission to Bitmine.ch to use their ultra-low-power Hash IP core for 28 nm DIE for chips produced by Innosilicon for Bitmine, and probably given only to Bitmine and nobody else.
c) Who did customized VLSI computational Marco cell (power train in 28 nm) - Synapse, Verisilicon, Innosilicon, Bitmine or GlobalFoundries is not known to me at this point. Also not known if this customized VLSI method is patented by someone.

Even though somebody could obtain licence from Innosilicon for power layer, other layers are still not Innosilicon property, so without Bitmine's sublicence on final design, full tapeout of cloned chips is not possible.

It has nothing to do with BRANDNAME - "COINCRAFT A1" as s BRAND, but with TOPOGRAPHIC DESIGN OF INTEGRATED CIRCUITS, which is SEPARATE LEVEL OF INTELECTUAL PROPERTY PROTECTION FROM BRAND(NAME) PROTECTION, patent pending according to Madrid Convention of the World Intelectual property organisation. Patents are accesible from WIPO portal, and they are many, and non of which are the property JingTian.

[nexus99]

I think the that the typical consumer is really only going to care about:

1) When can I get it?
2) How much does it cost?
3) Will it do what I need it to?