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Author Topic: btc-arbs.com - Update: dead HYIP, Refund progress: BTC-arbs still doing refunds  (Read 254175 times)
dyask
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April 03, 2014, 02:25:28 AM
 #301

I'm out for now.  Too many weird things recently.  If they prove their legitimacy, I'll get back in, but now they're just too sketchy for me.  I might look into bitcoin-trader.biz (they do arbitrage too, and are significantly more trustworthy) when the price of bitcoin goes back up.

bitcointrader.biz demands a great deal more trust as once you deposit you can't pull out for 120 days.   To me that makes it much more likely to be a scam.  
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April 03, 2014, 02:36:15 AM
 #302

I'm out for now.  Too many weird things recently.  If they prove their legitimacy, I'll get back in, but now they're just too sketchy for me.  I might look into bitcoin-trader.biz (they do arbitrage too, and are significantly more trustworthy) when the price of bitcoin goes back up.

bitcointrader.biz demands a great deal more trust as once you deposit you can't pull out for 120 days.   To me that makes it much more likely to be a scam.  

So because they demand more trust, they're less likely to be a scam? Wait, or, more likely? I'm confused.
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April 03, 2014, 03:17:29 AM
 #303

I'm out for now.  Too many weird things recently.  If they prove their legitimacy, I'll get back in, but now they're just too sketchy for me.  I might look into bitcoin-trader.biz (they do arbitrage too, and are significantly more trustworthy) when the price of bitcoin goes back up.

bitcointrader.biz demands a great deal more trust as once you deposit you can't pull out for 120 days.   To me that makes it much more likely to be a scam.  

So because they demand more trust, they're less likely to be a scam? Wait, or, more likely? I'm confused.

No ... Turning over your money for 120 days requires a lot more trust and leaves them a lot more room to just take off at some point.   Anyway I looked at the bitcointrader.biz several times, but personal it feels more like a scam to me than btc-arbs.com does and that is saying a lot.   
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April 03, 2014, 03:27:53 AM
 #304

I'm out for now.  Too many weird things recently.  If they prove their legitimacy, I'll get back in, but now they're just too sketchy for me.  I might look into bitcoin-trader.biz (they do arbitrage too, and are significantly more trustworthy) when the price of bitcoin goes back up.

bitcointrader.biz demands a great deal more trust as once you deposit you can't pull out for 120 days.   To me that makes it much more likely to be a scam.  

So because they demand more trust, they're less likely to be a scam? Wait, or, more likely? I'm confused.

No ... Turning over your money for 120 days requires a lot more trust and leaves them a lot more room to just take off at some point.   Anyway I looked at the bitcointrader.biz several times, but personal it feels more like a scam to me than btc-arbs.com does and that is saying a lot.   

I haven't actually done basically any research myself yet, just heard about it.  "They are significantly more trustworthy" was probably an overstatement.  Sorry about that!

Contract game: XBTcontracts
dyask
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April 03, 2014, 05:31:29 AM
 #305

I'm out for now.  Too many weird things recently.  If they prove their legitimacy, I'll get back in, but now they're just too sketchy for me.  I might look into bitcoin-trader.biz (they do arbitrage too, and are significantly more trustworthy) when the price of bitcoin goes back up.

bitcointrader.biz demands a great deal more trust as once you deposit you can't pull out for 120 days.   To me that makes it much more likely to be a scam.  

So because they demand more trust, they're less likely to be a scam? Wait, or, more likely? I'm confused.

No ... Turning over your money for 120 days requires a lot more trust and leaves them a lot more room to just take off at some point.   Anyway I looked at the bitcointrader.biz several times, but personal it feels more like a scam to me than btc-arbs.com does and that is saying a lot.   

I haven't actually done basically any research myself yet, just heard about it.  "They are significantly more trustworthy" was probably an overstatement.  Sorry about that!

No need to be sorry, just my gut feelings which could be wrong.   I was just put off by share concept and the fact that they also do mining, just doesn't make sense to me.   
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April 03, 2014, 09:45:21 AM
 #306

I'm out for now.  Too many weird things recently.  If they prove their legitimacy, I'll get back in, but now they're just too sketchy for me.  I might look into bitcoin-trader.biz (they do arbitrage too, and are significantly more trustworthy) when the price of bitcoin goes back up.

bitcointrader.biz demands a great deal more trust as once you deposit you can't pull out for 120 days.   To me that makes it much more likely to be a scam.  

So because they demand more trust, they're less likely to be a scam? Wait, or, more likely? I'm confused.

No ... Turning over your money for 120 days requires a lot more trust and leaves them a lot more room to just take off at some point.   Anyway I looked at the bitcointrader.biz several times, but personal it feels more like a scam to me than btc-arbs.com does and that is saying a lot.  

Have to strongly disagree with you on this one - I've played traditional HYIPs (aka ponzis) for years and btc-arbs definitely has a much higher chance of being a straight up ponzi than Bitcoin Trader. Why?

1) Bitcoin Trader started off as invite only and to this day they do not advertise on any of the HYIP-related forums. Btc Arbs on the other hand advertises on the biggest HYIP blog of them all - MNO:

http://money-news-online.com/blog/2014/02/18/18022014-btcarbs-review-daily-news-hyip-industry/

You will notice even the reviewer on MNO says not to listen to the statements about doing BTC arbitrage as it is commonplace in the HYIP industry to pretend to conduct some real business activity (forex trading is often used).

A true HYIP/Ponzi requires constant money coming in - Btc Arbs is clearly more reliant on new funds coming in than Bitcoin Trader.

In fact, there has been talk that Bitcoin Trader will eventually have to stop new deposits (as arbitrage trading has limitations as to how much money you can realistically move around).

2) Bitcoin Trader has posted losing (i.e. negative return) days. I don't believe Btc Arbs has ever posted a losing day.

3) Mining. The fact that Bitcoin Trader is also involved in mining adds to their legitimacy and provides a safety net of sorts as they have other sources of income (i.e. not only reliant on new money coming in).

4) Fiat conversion. Another safety net for Bitcoin Trader. You make a deposit and it is calculated in USD. Your returns are in USD. This provides stability. Btc Arbs is only dealing in BTC, so they are susceptible to the wild price fluctuations of BTC. For example, say you deposited a large amount of BTC a few weeks back. If they convert it now to supply fiat to their trading activities, they would be getting a considerable amount less would they not?

5) The owner of Bitcoin Trader does not hide his identity and if you have a 20k or greater deposit you can actually meet with him in person and discuss other opportunities with him. The odds are high that he is a legitimate Bitcoin entrepreneur, while nothing is known at all about BTC Arbs' owner.

I spent a good deal of time researching both of these programs and I ended up going with Bitcoin Trader only. I check this thread periodically to see if any new info has surfaced that increases the chances of Btc Arbs being legit as I would love to diversify and put some money with them as well. As of now, I don't feel confident in doing so.

Hope this helps anyone who is considering these two programs. If anyone does decide to join Bitcoin Trader, please use my referral link:

https://bitcoin-trader.biz/
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April 03, 2014, 11:50:40 AM
 #307


As far as I'm concerned, it is hard to take the opinion of anyone that posts referral links.   You have tainted motives.

 
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April 03, 2014, 12:06:00 PM
 #308


4) Fiat conversion. Another safety net for Bitcoin Trader. You make a deposit and it is calculated in USD. Your returns are in USD. This provides stability.


Not if you want to withdraw in bitcoin.

I find this one of the biggest showstoppers for bitcoin trader site.

hypersire
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April 03, 2014, 12:32:20 PM
 #309


As far as I'm concerned, it is hard to take the opinion of anyone that posts referral links.   You have tainted motives.

 

Not at all, I couldn't care less if you sign up to Bitcoin Trader or not. Like I said, I've been involved in these things for a long time and I know what to look for so I am just pointed out the facts. If someone found my info useful and would like to join up under me then great. If not, no skin off my back.

Just don't post that BTC Arbs looks more legitimate than Bitcoin Trader because that is certainly untrue.
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April 03, 2014, 01:28:29 PM
 #310

I'm out for now.  Too many weird things recently.  If they prove their legitimacy, I'll get back in, but now they're just too sketchy for me.  I might look into bitcoin-trader.biz (they do arbitrage too, and are significantly more trustworthy) when the price of bitcoin goes back up.

bitcointrader.biz demands a great deal more trust as once you deposit you can't pull out for 120 days.   To me that makes it much more likely to be a scam.  

So because they demand more trust, they're less likely to be a scam? Wait, or, more likely? I'm confused.

No ... Turning over your money for 120 days requires a lot more trust and leaves them a lot more room to just take off at some point.   Anyway I looked at the bitcointrader.biz several times, but personal it feels more like a scam to me than btc-arbs.com does and that is saying a lot.   

Have to strongly disagree with you on this one - I've played traditional HYIPs (aka ponzis) for years and btc-arbs definitely has a much higher chance of being a straight up ponzi than Bitcoin Trader. Why?

1) Bitcoin Trader started off as invite only and to this day they do not advertise on any of the HYIP-related forums. Btc Arbs on the other hand advertises on the biggest HYIP blog of them all - MNO:

http://money-news-online.com/blog/2014/02/18/18022014-btcarbs-review-daily-news-hyip-industry/

You will notice even the reviewer on MNO says not to listen to the statements about doing BTC arbitrage as it is commonplace in the HYIP industry to pretend to conduct some real business activity (forex trading is often used).

A true HYIP/Ponzi requires constant money coming in - Btc Arbs is clearly more reliant on new funds coming in than Bitcoin Trader.

In fact, there has been talk that Bitcoin Trader will eventually have to stop new deposits (as arbitrage trading has limitations as to how much money you can realistically move around).

2) Bitcoin Trader has posted losing (i.e. negative return) days. I don't believe Btc Arbs has ever posted a losing day.

3) Mining. The fact that Bitcoin Trader is also involved in mining adds to their legitimacy and provides a safety net of sorts as they have other sources of income (i.e. not only reliant on new money coming in).

4) Fiat conversion. Another safety net for Bitcoin Trader. You make a deposit and it is calculated in USD. Your returns are in USD. This provides stability. Btc Arbs is only dealing in BTC, so they are susceptible to the wild price fluctuations of BTC. For example, say you deposited a large amount of BTC a few weeks back. If they convert it now to supply fiat to their trading activities, they would be getting a considerable amount less would they not?

5) The owner of Bitcoin Trader does not hide his identity and if you have a 20k or greater deposit you can actually meet with him in person and discuss other opportunities with him. The odds are high that he is a legitimate Bitcoin entrepreneur, while nothing is known at all about BTC Arbs' owner.

I spent a good deal of time researching both of these programs and I ended up going with Bitcoin Trader only. I check this thread periodically to see if any new info has surfaced that increases the chances of Btc Arbs being legit as I would love to diversify and put some money with them as well. As of now, I don't feel confident in doing so.

Hope this helps anyone who is considering these two programs. If anyone does decide to join Bitcoin Trader, please use my referral link:

https://bitcoin-trader.biz/?ref=lbritish

Great info, thanks for that.




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dyask
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April 03, 2014, 02:03:26 PM
 #311


As far as I'm concerned, it is hard to take the opinion of anyone that posts referral links.   You have tainted motives.

 

Not at all, I couldn't care less if you sign up to Bitcoin Trader or not. Like I said, I've been involved in these things for a long time and I know what to look for so I am just pointed out the facts. If someone found my info useful and would like to join up under me then great. If not, no skin off my back.

Just don't post that BTC Arbs looks more legitimate than Bitcoin Trader because that is certainly untrue.

 Angry  Hey I have as much right to my opinion as you do to yours!

I did look seriously at Bitcoin Trader and got very bad vibes from it.  
  * Not allowing people to get money back in less than 120 day.  That is seriously shady.
  * Converting everything in to shares, is at best poor management at worst deceptive.
  * I personally seen scams where mining is presented as part of the operation.   In fact that seems too common in bitcoin.
  * Bernie Madoff was a public figure that didn't hide, didn't stop him from running a scam.  

I'm trying to be objective, that is why I don't even offer referrals.   If you didn't care, then you wouldn't offer it.   Likely you have very little at risk and just want referrals to make a little bit without risk.    

My trust level of Btc-arbs isn't that high, but is higher than that of Bitcoin Trader. 
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April 03, 2014, 02:28:41 PM
 #312

Just don't post that BTC Arbs looks more legitimate than Bitcoin Trader because that is certainly untrue.

Agree with you, much more legitimate!

And the lock-in period is what all legitimate investment firms are doing. How can any have any financial security needed for medium or long-term planning?

But to withdraw all deposits after one day is a new trend in the HYIP arena. That can also be researched on the famous blog mentioned earlier: money-news-online.com/blog
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April 03, 2014, 02:47:12 PM
 #313

Just don't post that BTC Arbs looks more legitimate than Bitcoin Trader because that is certainly untrue.

Agree with you, much more legitimate!

And the lock-in period is what all legitimate investment firms are doing. How can any have any financial security needed for medium or long-term planning?

But to withdraw all deposits after one day is a new trend in the HYIP arena. That can also be researched on the famous blog mentioned earlier: money-news-online.com/blog

Another good point Sunny1! This withdraw anytime thing is a new gimmick in the HYIP industry that started late last year.

Here is an example of the ramifications of this. I was involved in another BTC Arbitrage HYIP called Bitcoinrain (AKA Mercado Bitcoin) from 2012-2013. Everything was going great, then one day the admin claimed the web site was hacked. Thousands of BTC were lost.

As it turns out, the "hack" mysteriously happened after one member tried to withdraw 1,200 BTC. Everything is documented here:

http://bitcoinscammers.com/mercadobitcoin-com-br/

So I personally don't consider a no lock in period a good thing at all - quite the opposite actually.
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April 03, 2014, 04:52:58 PM
 #314

Is it possible to track incuming and outgoing transactions realted to the deposit-address which has been created by btc-arbs once you started a deposit-procedere?


I am going to collect some facts to show why that could be ponzi.

-> I wanted to start deposit of 500$ via bank wire. That was on  03-30-2014. I clicked on bank wire, got message "We will contact ya within 24 hours with further information" (or similar message, cant remember). No answer till today.
-> No correct caclulations. I have "earned" more coins than calculated. Not much more, but theres a deviation. (Other user reports correct working calculations) And i really did correct calculations.
-> No presence on social networks or forums.
-> Squishy, vague answers when you ask "are you ponzi, explain why not" on support-site.
-> Some little issues with percentage table on results-site, percentage on wrong day.
-> Possible issues with 2FA. (To be verfied)
-> An issue with wrong withdrawal, but turned out well after a new try.
-> No reports on VIP-partys in Geneva
-> Anonymous whois
-> Neither logical explanation for necessity of 10 employees nor how to pay them
-> No marketing, rather sitting in the background.
-> Some vague statements on future plans or tasks requested by community
-> Questionable meetings with leaders of bitcoin industry (lol)
-> Bear a likeness to another ponzi site.
-> "Bank wire" appears only on deposit-site, not on mainpage.

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dyask
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April 03, 2014, 08:38:36 PM
 #315

Just don't post that BTC Arbs looks more legitimate than Bitcoin Trader because that is certainly untrue.

Agree with you, much more legitimate!

And the lock-in period is what all legitimate investment firms are doing. How can any have any financial security needed for medium or long-term planning?

But to withdraw all deposits after one day is a new trend in the HYIP arena. That can also be researched on the famous blog mentioned earlier: money-news-online.com/blog
Like what legitimate investment firm?  Name one.  It is total nonsense for any kind of trading.   
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April 03, 2014, 08:48:09 PM
 #316

-> No correct caclulations. I have "earned" more coins than calculated. Not much more, but theres a deviation. (Other user reports correct working calculations) And i really did correct calculations.

You must have messed up, because it works for me.  Make sure that you're truncating the result with just four decimal points for the interest.  And make sure that you have the deposits and withdrawals marked on the right day (according to BTC Arbs).

Contract game: XBTcontracts
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April 03, 2014, 08:53:32 PM
 #317

I don't understand why if they are a legitimate company they would go to such lengths to hide who they are?
Its interesting too the heat map of where most of the traffic is coming from - http://btc-arbs.com.hypestat.com/
42+ percent comes from Russia.  I also noticed the Perfect Money deposit account is NOT Verified.

 
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April 03, 2014, 09:38:53 PM
 #318

I don't understand why if they are a legitimate company they would go to such lengths to hide who they are?
Its interesting too the heat map of where most of the traffic is coming from - http://btc-arbs.com.hypestat.com/
42+ percent comes from Russia.  I also noticed the Perfect Money deposit account is NOT Verified

Hide themselves in the hacker infested bitcoin world?   Doesn't seem any different that most bitcoin sites.   However that doesn't mean they are good or bad.   There have also been plenty of very public scams.   

Frankly I don't see the point of comparing btc-arbs and bitcoin trader sites.   They both could be scams or they both could be fine.   Comparing them doesn't prove anything because you can't be 100% sure either is completely safe. 

However I'm 100% sure that when someone posts a huge argument supporting one site or other with a referral link, there is a good chance the intensions are just getting referrals. 
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April 04, 2014, 02:28:05 AM
 #319

Quote from: Creature13 on Today at 03:53:48 AM
Thank you for your message. A member of our administrative team will get back to you within the next 24 hours.

But no one ever gets back to me. I've listed email address and phone number in the message body. I am getting very unhappy with this situation. If anyone has contact information other than that Contact Us form, please let me know.
There was an email posted a few pages back, I believe it was something like admin@btc-arbs.com or something.  I also sent an contact form with a few questions that was never answered either.

I don't know much about using 2FA, but there is a chance you are doing it wrong?


==========================================================================

Thanks. I will give that email a shot. You are correct. I very well may be doing it wrong. That's why I need help and why I've been submitting forms for weeks.

I'll see if I get any help via email. maybe the form is broken.

Thanks again,
c13

I'll try to open a support ticket about this issues, about the "forget password" issues, using my account, and see what they will say.


I got the reply, here it is >> I copy and paste:


From   administrator
Sent on   April 02nd 2014
I believe the forgot password function does work, just some people have email accounts that send our messages to their spam folder.

Regardless... this is the Bitcoin industry, if people aren't bright enough to remember their passwords, Bitcoin is something they should probably stay away from.


-------------------
Qwiner on 02/04/2014 05:10:40
so please tell me,

How can users recover their account if they happen to lost or forget their password?
>> because the FORGET PASSWORD function is not working >> as ALL users of btc-arbs are saying that your site never respond to users via email. >>

----------------------------------
administrator on 01/04/2014 18:20:21
We are in the midst of improving our outside of the site contact functions. I anticipate posting improvements in the near future. One of the issues with e-mail is we get a crazy amount of spam through it.

Adam


----------------------------------
Qwiner on 01/04/2014 07:37:38
Hi,

I have heard a lot of errors about your site, in relation to your FORGOT PASSWORD + CONTACT US function. Many of the users are complaining that they use those functions, and fill out the form. But the queries were never answered.

I do understand that when users have queries, btc-arbs will always answer user's queries through user's SUPPORT ZONE.
Is there an alternative way for user to contact btc-arbs, without accessing their account? eg. when users have forgotten their password. As btc-arbs never answer user's queries through the user's email.

If so, this means that, at btc-arbs.com, means that if forget your password, U will lost your account forever?

Reply



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TheAwer
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April 04, 2014, 03:00:27 AM
 #320

---snip---

From   administrator
Sent on   April 02nd 2014
I believe the forgot password function does work, just some people have email accounts that send our messages to their spam folder.

Regardless... this is the Bitcoin industry, if people aren't bright enough to remember their passwords, Bitcoin is something they should probably stay away from.


---snip---

Is that a new letter you got back?  Kind of confusing when you just edit a quote without any other information...

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