[ANN] AIRcoin

[tx42]

Anyone managed to get in contact with the kids via email? Supply needs to be cut ASAP. Even without their useless market bot, the price will slowly go up if X11+DGW+CGA-style reward is implemented.

Air devs are pretty much the biggest flakes in altcoin history. And that is saying something.

[Juicemixer]

Am I the only one that noticed the bot is still running? Or atleast a bot. Doesn't have to be their bot. It's either that or someone with a severe case of ADD can't decide whether to sell one stack of coins or two stacks of coins 1 sat apart so he keeps making new orders.

Either way that damn thing needs to stop one upping my buy orders. I'm on to you Mr. bidding at 0.00999999

[ISAWHIM]

Anyone managed to get in contact with the kids via email? Supply needs to be cut ASAP. Even without their useless market bot, the price will slowly go up if X11+DGW+CGA-style reward is implemented.

You are an idiot... It is NOT the existing miners dumping. x11 doesn't do shit! All x11 coins are getting dumped too... show me one coin "rising", that isn't a pump.

Go take your steam-engine technology and mine coal to power you shrinking market of GPU-miners. You want to take this coin down to CPU-only style coins? How well are those doing? Oh yea, they all pumped, dumped and died.

You know why LTC is still rising, because it is ASIC friendly. You know why BTC went up 10x again... Oh yea, because it was ASIC friendly. Why do you think everyone is dumping? To get more ASIC's.

Not sure if you noticed, but GPU sales are shit right now. They are over-priced, power-hungry, expensive to operate, and killing coins. Why do you think they mine and dump.. to pay bills. You know what x11 will be? 10,000 new clone-coins. Take your miners available now, and divide that by 10,000. How many does that leave mining each new coin? Oh yea, and they will hop too, and dump. Just like they are doing now to the x11 coins that have begun being cloned.

You want to keep the coins limited, then mine them, and buy more. The wales have all dumped, there is no-where for this coin to go, except up.

I offered to buy every single coin, even the entire premine. (Not at a price you would have liked, but I had it up for days.) I am still mining it.

You want out... take the loss and cash-out. The sooner you are out, the sooner the price goes up. You want it higher to cash out, screw you. Hold it like an investor. That was the purpose of the coin. Everyone treated it like a pump-n-dump, and if you are bitching, then you are one of those dumpers. I'll am sorry your plan was thwarted and you didn't get a chance to dump at 0.0020, or 0.0019, or 0.0018... 0.0003... If you are holding to invest, then you wouldn't care that it is lower, you would be happy, and buying more, like me.

If you were that hard-up for cash, like I was just recently, you take the loss. You want a pump and dump, then go trade any other coin. Why didn't you cash-out and get DRK? It's just flying up the charts! (That was irony, because it isn't, it is being pumped and dumped like the rest.)

When will you see a big return? When BTC and LTC rise in a big hike... That is the only time any of these coins have real returns. Until that happens, everyone is just swapping debt, playing with the same $1000 in every coin. Trading it up and down until someone cashes-out permanently, and then the price drops permanently, everyone then trading the same $500 up and down, until some of that is permanently removed.

You want x11, then you should be mining an x11 coin. Don't force that toxic shit down our throats.

[hughjays77]

I didnt know Hirocoin & Darkcoin [x11's] are dead. 

[ISAWHIM]

I didnt know Hirocoin & Darkcoin [x11's] are dead. 

I didn't say they were dead. (Though, in time, they will be. I said GPU sales were shit, and decaying. Unless you count people buying old, soon to be dead, GPU's from ebay. There have been hundreds of millions of ASIC's made, and it will soon be billions now. Most in China, which is why China blew the market up. Only a few million GPU's, most still sitting on shelves or in warehouses.)

My reply was about "Hurry and save us from hoppers and dumpers, switch to x11 and DGW"... Which x11 or DGW does not do crap for. The coins that use it are being dumped, just like any other coin, and have all been pumped, just like any other coin. Hoppers left, and are leaving steady miners holding the bags and the overly-high diffs that reward little. When the diff drops, thus the reward has eventually settled-in, and the price is nice and high still, they mine for a few blocks until the diff rockets, cash-out, and leave again. (Only now they have other x11 coins to hop to. The more you make, the more they hop.)

They didn't hop before because the "tuning" for x11 is not the same for scrypt, and there are only a limited few who the x11 even works for. Thus, the decaying miners on those coins, as they spread the miner-base across, 2, 3, 4, 10, 100 new coins.

But anyways... Those coins too are being manipulated. All coins are.

The complaint I had about AIR, was that they were manipulating AIR to manipulate AIR for gains. When they said they were going to be getting GAINS from trading OTHER COINS, to build the pool for AIR. However, it seems like they were just taking gains from AIR to put into AIR, which is an endless battle. Because you can't BUY all the old air, plus all the new air coming in, to manipulate it UP, by buying only SOME of the old AIR at the top.

The only way to make it rise, is by adding NEW BTC to the BUYING list. Otherwise you just flat-line it, as the exchange takes fractions of your trade-supply. Until you have zero spread and can not trade up or down anymore. (Add that to the people who had no intention of investing, and have permanently removed BTC, and you get a flatline that levels down. THUS, you need marketing to have a MARKET to manipulate. There is no MARKET to manipulate yet. They were just manipulating US. We are not the market.)

I don't care if you are an economic genius... (Geniuses are not always right, or successful, or good at making money. Idiots can make money.) You need more than bots and formulas and your own house to play in, to make money. You have to step outside and work.

They have agreed to focus on what is needed next. Let them do that. Until then, let the market do what the market does. At the moment, like all the other markets that are not being artificially pumped, that thing being done is falling. (A result of impatient people selling themselves short, and new investors getting great deals to buy-in where they can't mine.)

[JTB800]

The complaint I had about AIR, was that they were manipulating AIR to manipulate AIR for gains. When they said they were going to be getting GAINS from trading OTHER COINS, to build the pool for AIR. However, it seems like they were just taking gains from AIR to put into AIR, which is an endless battle. Because you can't BUY all the old air, plus all the new air coming in, to manipulate it UP, by buying only SOME of the old AIR at the top.

Exactly ISAWHIM! That is precisely why I bought the coin to begin with. I thought that they were buying (and selling) other coins. What happened to that? I had no problem with them using the system on their own coin, but just not to help miners get out of the initial dumping. And, before anyone jumps on me, yes I publicly said this as it was happening, not just afterwards.

But, the main attraction to me was the potential profit of using other coins for a trading system to help the AIR coin. It seemed like a solid plan and I am unclear how it got derailed. They seemed to listen to the miners who professed "concern" every time the coin dipped in price. Any semi-logical deduction would realize that the miners just wanted out at a high price, but this seemed to escape the developers thought process.

And, of course, let's not give the impression that the devs are blameless here. They went along with the miners and encouraged this mindset that AIR would only go up (more or less). Meanwhile a coin that used a solid trading system on OTHER coins and utilized any profits toward the AIR coin (or whatever coin) would almost assuredly offer much larger upside potential. Of course, the volatility may be much greater in bursts, but medium term the possible benefits could be enormous.

It's a shame to see that these guys just imploded before our very eyes. I doubt highly that they can get their act together (based on their idiocy up to this point -- including their last "update"), but as a coin holder, I sure hope they do. 

[sussex]

It's a shame to see that these guys just imploded before our very eyes. I doubt highly that they can get their act together (based on their idiocy up to this point -- including their last "update"), but as a coin holder, I sure hope they do. 

I was lucky, I saw the dev's "atom bomb" within minutes of it being posted and had dumped within 30 seconds, I got out with a 0.5 BTC loss which I recouped within 24 hrs on black and dark.

A few saw what was coming within 48-72 hrs of launch (but didn't get out, unfortunately), even predicting with some accuracy the exhaustion of the BTC pool.

The devs clearly don't have the faintest clue about PR (despite their claims of having media experts on hand) which is why no effort was expended on marketing and why they didn't see the impact their update would have. A typical case of geeks needing to get out more.

This coin needs taking in hand, Alexander is not up to some aspects of a coin dev's job, and it now needs a public face since the coin cannot be trusted without one.

The media aspects of a coin launch are at least as important as the technicals and in this the devs failed horribly, they could have minimised the damage caused had they thought about their announcement for just five seconds, but instead they detonated it - madness.

I very much doubt I will buy any air again, I may mine a bit if it is profitable to do so.

The failure of this coin wasn't the fault of the miners, it was the fault of the devs. A worthwhile media presence would likely have prevented much dumping by miners enabling the BTC pool to be used as intended, which I was also under the impression was being financed by trading in other alts...................

[hughjays77]

They are not dead. x11, script-Jane, Script -N etc are the future for several other reasons

Milliions, Billions of ASIC's. You cant be serious.  You can barely get your usable bitcoins ASIC's delivered in 12-16 weeks or ordering and Script ASIC's are from unreliable Chinese factories with long delivery times for qty orders over 5 units or so. Many delivered do not work properly kind of like riser cables. I should advise you that I have been ordering many products 'directly' from CHina for over 6 years [ thats like a 60yrs in chinese wholesaling time ]

btw GPU sales are still very brisk on EBAY which in economic market terms is still the big dog in establishing where the damand and supply lines intersect.

Even with some of the above, I am fine with X11 and I believe the Dev's should switch as soon as possible.



 

I didnt know Hirocoin & Darkcoin [x11's] are dead. 

I didn't say they were dead. (Though, in time, they will be. I said GPU sales were shit, and decaying. Unless you count people buying old, soon to be dead, GPU's from ebay. There have been hundreds of millions of ASIC's made, and it will soon be billions now. Most in China, which is why China blew the market up. Only a few million GPU's, most still sitting on shelves or in warehouses.)

My reply was about "Hurry and save us from hoppers and dumpers, switch to x11 and DGW"... Which x11 or DGW does not do crap for. The coins that use it are being dumped, just like any other coin, and have all been pumped, just like any other coin. Hoppers left, and are leaving steady miners holding the bags and the overly-high diffs that reward little. When the diff drops, thus the reward has eventually settled-in, and the price is nice and high still, they mine for a few blocks until the diff rockets, cash-out, and leave again. (Only now they have other x11 coins to hop to. The more you make, the more they hop.)

They didn't hop before because the "tuning" for x11 is not the same for scrypt, and there are only a limited few who the x11 even works for. Thus, the decaying miners on those coins, as they spread the miner-base across, 2, 3, 4, 10, 100 new coins.

But anyways... Those coins too are being manipulated. All coins are.

The complaint I had about AIR, was that they were manipulating AIR to manipulate AIR for gains. When they said they were going to be getting GAINS from trading OTHER COINS, to build the pool for AIR. However, it seems like they were just taking gains from AIR to put into AIR, which is an endless battle. Because you can't BUY all the old air, plus all the new air coming in, to manipulate it UP, by buying only SOME of the old AIR at the top.

The only way to make it rise, is by adding NEW BTC to the BUYING list. Otherwise you just flat-line it, as the exchange takes fractions of your trade-supply. Until you have zero spread and can not trade up or down anymore. (Add that to the people who had no intention of investing, and have permanently removed BTC, and you get a flatline that levels down. THUS, you need marketing to have a MARKET to manipulate. There is no MARKET to manipulate yet. They were just manipulating US. We are not the market.)

I don't care if you are an economic genius... (Geniuses are not always right, or successful, or good at making money. Idiots can make money.) You need more than bots and formulas and your own house to play in, to make money. You have to step outside and work.

They have agreed to focus on what is needed next. Let them do that. Until then, let the market do what the market does. At the moment, like all the other markets that are not being artificially pumped, that thing being done is falling. (A result of impatient people selling themselves short, and new investors getting great deals to buy-in where they can't mine.)

[ISAWHIM]

They are not dead. x11, script-Jane, Script -N etc are the future for several other reasons

Milliions, Billions of ASIC's. You cant be serious.  You can barely get your usable bitcoins ASIC's delivered in 12-16 weeks or ordering and Script ASIC's are from unreliable Chinese factories with long delivery times for qty orders over 5 units or so. Many delivered do not work properly kind of like riser cables. I should advise you that I have been ordering many products 'directly' from CHina for over 6 years [ thats like a 60yrs in chinese wholesaling time ]

btw GPU sales are still very brisk on EBAY which in economic market terms is still the big dog in establishing where the damand and supply lines intersect.

Even with some of the above, I am fine with X11 and I believe the Dev's should switch as soon as possible.

Then go mine an x11 coin... (Seems like one a week now, and soon one a day will appear. If it works for you, then join that party.)

Not all ASIC's are from China, most ship in days and arrive in a week. Sounds like you just have crappy China distributors. Oh, and China to China shipping only takes a week. There are now over 20 decent farms, and seven major ones, with several thousands of ASIC's in them.

Ebay is not a reliable source of anything. As for your ignorance to the GPU's manufactured, and GPU sales, and those scrypts being the "future". Well, I'll just let that future speak for itself. At the moment, it is saying "Yea right". They are all experimental scrypts, which still favor NEW GPU's. So that defeats the whole purpose of the fight. Those promoting it are promoting their own death. They are the ones with old-hardware farms that will just be beat-out by new hardware-farms. The only reason it looks like they are remotely winning, is because NO ONE IS BUILDING NEW HARDWARE FARMS. (How ironic... Invent a stupid scrypt, announce it keeps away snakes, they look around, don't see snakes. Then everyone realizes there are no snakes in Ireland.)

So you degrade the card to do nothing, increase the number for hashes, then say... Look, it is running cooler. Yea, because it is doing less. (While the devs have the unhindered programs that actually run 100% on the machines in there farms, while they cash-out on you, running at 80%.)

Work = Power... if it pulls less power, it is doing less. Period. Doesn't matter what number you fictitiously create to measure it. In the end, it still pulls more power than any ASIC, and THAT is what you are paying for every month. That is why they will die as mining tools in the future. So essentially turning them into a half-assed ASIC is actually defeating the purpose. It costs less to produce that hash, so you sell for less. You have saved nothing. You could have sold that card and made more to buy a real ASIC, that actually saves you money to operate.

But I digress.

You obviously have no idea what the hell you are talking about. You buy crap from China in bulk.

The KGW is formulated backwards, and DGW is equally as screwed-up. They both favor hoppers and large-hashing-miners, while screwing the steady miners. That is why they keep pushing it, because THEY HAVE FARMS that take advantage of those exploits. Even though having KGW and DGW are better than not having it at all. (It just makes them more efficient at the rape.) Not to mention, each set of "lucky hashes", makes the coin think the hash-rate just shot up, so it adjusts up and stays up when it should not be up in the first place.

What the coin is made of, in a few months, will not even matter, unless it keeps miners on it steady. Once there is a market, the market will be the biggest determining factor of growth, unless the miners all leave. If they leave then there becomes an abundance of coins in fewer miners hands, and they can easily cash-out for gross gains. If they get raped by a farm, then only that one person can cash-out for gross gains, against us and the market, keeping miners off the coin.

The coin needs to be distributed across as many hands as possible, as borderline as possible, with a greater volume being held for futures. While the new coins are not spread so thin, that they can not compete with the volume of held coins, and all become losses. That is why the super-halving by difficulty makes it impossible to keep-up, with the majority already being held in the future. (Now throw halving on top of that, and reward manipulation that only favors those who held for the future, and you get sudden death.)

Technically, the rewards should start small, and get larger with more miners, but not so large that the more miners have the same as those few who mined early. Also not so small that they could never actually make a gain on a sale, without grossly over-rewarding those who raped the coin in the early days.

Unfortunately, there are not many hands here, or a decent supportive market, due to the premine and unproven statements from anonymous strangers who intended to manipulate MINERS earnings, as well as the MARKETS earnings. We already have a mining manipulator, it is called difficulty adjustments and halving. We already have market manipulators, they are called people and bots. What we don't have a lot of, at the moment, is trust. That is the only thing that builds a market. Otherwise you just another coin, created by anyone, with any purpose and no direction we can actually follow. People hide for a reason. The intentions are becoming clearer as assumptions rise, since that is all anyone has, and all that is offered.

It's this simple... Do what is needed, or the coin dies. Don't do what is actually needed, and it dies faster. Do what you want, and you can swim in your coins alone, all day long.

So far, they have chosen to "Do what is needed."...

I am satisfied with that. It already drove-off most of those who never had any intentions of sticking around past the first pump. We can all move forward now. That has come and gone. Would you rather it happened a month from now, and left you stuck with more that could not be sold. At the moment, the diff is low enough that you can earn back any losses in a few days. (Well, unless another hired farm is pointed at the coin, blasting the diff up into oblivion again, which will boot all the miners back off the coin. Unless our steady volume is higher than the farms volume.)

[sha0908]

I like this coin very much!!!!:)

This coin potential is really great and I think has a great appreciation of space
You deserve

[hughjays77]

I hope you didnt expect me to read all of that
ASICs were never & will never be the future. Scriptcoins will be defunct yr end. GPU effeciency is the future. Good luck scrypt farms.

They are not dead. x11, script-Jane, Script -N etc are the future for several other reasons

Milliions, Billions of ASIC's. You cant be serious.  You can barely get your usable bitcoins ASIC's delivered in 12-16 weeks or ordering and Script ASIC's are from unreliable Chinese factories with long delivery times for qty orders over 5 units or so. Many delivered do not work properly kind of like riser cables. I should advise you that I have been ordering many products 'directly' from CHina for over 6 years [ thats like a 60yrs in chinese wholesaling time ]

btw GPU sales are still very brisk on EBAY which in economic market terms is still the big dog in establishing where the damand and supply lines intersect.

Even with some of the above, I am fine with X11 and I believe the Dev's should switch as soon as possible.

Then go mine an x11 coin... (Seems like one a week now, and soon one a day will appear. If it works for you, then join that party.)

Not all ASIC's are from China, most ship in days and arrive in a week. Sounds like you just have crappy China distributors. Oh, and China to China shipping only takes a week. There are now over 20 decent farms, and seven major ones, with several thousands of ASIC's in them.

Ebay is not a reliable source of anything. As for your ignorance to the GPU's manufactured, and GPU sales, and those scrypts being the "future". Well, I'll just let that future speak for itself. At the moment, it is saying "Yea right". They are all experimental scrypts, which still favor NEW GPU's. So that defeats the whole purpose of the fight. Those promoting it are promoting their own death. They are the ones with old-hardware farms that will just be beat-out by new hardware-farms. The only reason it looks like they are remotely winning, is because NO ONE IS BUILDING NEW HARDWARE FARMS. (How ironic... Invent a stupid scrypt, announce it keeps away snakes, they look around, don't see snakes. Then everyone realizes there are no snakes in Ireland.)

So you degrade the card to do nothing, increase the number for hashes, then say... Look, it is running cooler. Yea, because it is doing less. (While the devs have the unhindered programs that actually run 100% on the machines in there farms, while they cash-out on you, running at 80%.)

Work = Power... if it pulls less power, it is doing less. Period. Doesn't matter what number you fictitiously create to measure it. In the end, it still pulls more power than any ASIC, and THAT is what you are paying for every month. That is why they will die as mining tools in the future. So essentially turning them into a half-assed ASIC is actually defeating the purpose. It costs less to produce that hash, so you sell for less. You have saved nothing. You could have sold that card and made more to buy a real ASIC, that actually saves you money to operate.

But I digress.

You obviously have no idea what the hell you are talking about. You buy crap from China in bulk.

The KGW is formulated backwards, and DGW is equally as screwed-up. They both favor hoppers and large-hashing-miners, while screwing the steady miners. That is why they keep pushing it, because THEY HAVE FARMS that take advantage of those exploits. Even though having KGW and DGW are better than not having it at all. (It just makes them more efficient at the rape.) Not to mention, each set of "lucky hashes", makes the coin think the hash-rate just shot up, so it adjusts up and stays up when it should not be up in the first place.

What the coin is made of, in a few months, will not even matter, unless it keeps miners on it steady. Once there is a market, the market will be the biggest determining factor of growth, unless the miners all leave. If they leave then there becomes an abundance of coins in fewer miners hands, and they can easily cash-out for gross gains. If they get raped by a farm, then only that one person can cash-out for gross gains, against us and the market, keeping miners off the coin.

The coin needs to be distributed across as many hands as possible, as borderline as possible, with a greater volume being held for futures. While the new coins are not spread so thin, that they can not compete with the volume of held coins, and all become losses. That is why the super-halving by difficulty makes it impossible to keep-up, with the majority already being held in the future. (Now throw halving on top of that, and reward manipulation that only favors those who held for the future, and you get sudden death.)

Technically, the rewards should start small, and get larger with more miners, but not so large that the more miners have the same as those few who mined early. Also not so small that they could never actually make a gain on a sale, without grossly over-rewarding those who raped the coin in the early days.

Unfortunately, there are not many hands here, or a decent supportive market, due to the premine and unproven statements from anonymous strangers who intended to manipulate MINERS earnings, as well as the MARKETS earnings. We already have a mining manipulator, it is called difficulty adjustments and halving. We already have market manipulators, they are called people and bots. What we don't have a lot of, at the moment, is trust. That is the only thing that builds a market. Otherwise you just another coin, created by anyone, with any purpose and no direction we can actually follow. People hide for a reason. The intentions are becoming clearer as assumptions rise, since that is all anyone has, and all that is offered.

It's this simple... Do what is needed, or the coin dies. Don't do what is actually needed, and it dies faster. Do what you want, and you can swim in your coins alone, all day long.

So far, they have chosen to "Do what is needed."...

I am satisfied with that. It already drove-off most of those who never had any intentions of sticking around past the first pump. We can all move forward now. That has come and gone. Would you rather it happened a month from now, and left you stuck with more that could not be sold. At the moment, the diff is low enough that you can earn back any losses in a few days. (Well, unless another hired farm is pointed at the coin, blasting the diff up into oblivion again, which will boot all the miners back off the coin. Unless our steady volume is higher than the farms volume.)

[ISAWHIM]

I hope you didnt expect me to read all of that
ASICs were never & will never be the future. Scriptcoins will be defunct yr end. GPU effeciency is the future. Good luck scrypt farms.

No, I didn't expect you to read all of that.

Your reply satisfies the contents stated in the TLDR post.

Not sure if you are trolling now, or being comical, or actually believe what you just said.

[ISAWHIM]

To satisfy and appease the public, could the AIRteam add a page to the wallet, which contains the following...

A display which shows the contents/balances of the five premined blocks, visible at all times to every wallet holder. With an integrated "expenses" list below, that justifies each removed transaction. Bonus for a "user approval request", for removal/spending of coins from said balances, to pay debts. With the additional option to possibly "Donate", BTC or LTC in exchange for those coins directly. (Thus giving you the ability to pay for services in BTC or LTC, while keeping those AIR off the markets, where they would otherwise be "dumped", by the people you would normally have paid for those services. With the concept that the "Donated" values of AIR-holdings, be forcefully higher than any market-price, to also reduce temptation to dump, by those who donated for the possession of them.)

At the moment, the only way to alleviate the large values, would be to "revalue" AIR, so it was only a fraction of what it is now. This could only be done by moving all decimals of all values, over to the left, by four or five positions. Thus turning the holdings from 2,500,000 into only 250.0000 or 25.00000, which would also turn block-rewards from 3.720 into 0.00037200 or 0.00003720... Then you could SLOWLY allow reward to increase with hash-rate, instead of decrease. (Because as hash-rate increases, it is divided among more users, so there will still be less per user, but reduce the "fat wallets", of those who were "early miners". They will still be exponentially fat wallets, but not exponentially fat, by as much.) This would also require the full mined cap to be tripled, but with the decimals moved, that would not be much change, except that your premine would now be effectively 1/3 of 0.25%.

Thus... with 10 miners, they could earn about 0.00003720 per block... (/10 = 0.0000037200 per miner)
But... with 100 miners, they would earn about 0.00037200 per block... (/10/100 = 0.0000003720 per miner)

As opposed to now... (With the current steady value, but with the above stated decimal offset.)
10 miners get 0.00003720 / 10 = 0.0000037200
100 miners get (0.00003720/10) / 100 = 0.0000000372 {The /10 is for the diff-adjust}

That was just an example, but you get the idea. (Extra decimals added to show off-chart values.)

BTW, it took almost a whole 24 hours for the KGW to finally match the hash-rate of the miners. So for essentially 24 hours, the 110MHs network was mining with reward as if they were 220MHs, thus, getting nearly half the reward for mining... (Average of 75% of what they deserved.) If another 110MHs jumps on the net now, they would get a HUGE chunk of that low-diff, then leave once the KGW eventually moved up, and leave us mining all day long again, for 75%, while that miner had just gotten about 200% for a few hours of work. With that much hashing-power they would not need to mine in a pool.)

I could prepare a more formal structure, as a true proposal, if needed. However, I do hope you see what I was getting-at.

This reduces holder-dump damage, and miner-dump damage, and also network-reduction or network-increase damages, which lead to the aforementioned in "exponential decreasing earnings, while exponential inflated holdings" both exist at once, on the same chart.

P.S. This has other advantages too... (But too complex to get into on the forums. You may already see them. )

[Juicemixer]

You can already tell someone has figured out the mining game of this coin. One day the net hash is over 200Mhz. The next day it's sub 100Mhz and taking up to five minutes for a block to show.

I always wondered if low retarget time could fix that problem. Something around five minutes to retarget difficulty. Multipools might still try to jump in every five minutes but at least they won't be screwing over the dedicated miners so much.

I also think that ASICs are not as bad as most people think them to be. It's almost like a group of people have created a stigma about ASICs being bad to save their own interest. Kind of like how in the 1950s people that had a lot to lose for pot being legal went into great lengths to spread false negative information of it's use. They even made a movie called Reefer Madness that depict pot smokers going wild crazy and running around like maniacs committing unsightly things. Will ASICs destroy the using of GPUs to mine? Not all of them, but I do find it strange the people that outcry the most are the ones that have the mining market cornered with their expensive mining rigs.

[kache]

You can already tell someone has figured out the mining game of this coin. One day the net hash is over 200Mhz. The next day it's sub 100Mhz and taking up to five minutes for a block to show.

I always wondered if low retarget time could fix that problem. Something around five minutes to retarget difficulty. Multipools might still try to jump in every five minutes but at least they won't be screwing over the dedicated miners so much.

I also think that ASICs are not as bad as most people think them to be. It's almost like a group of people have created a stigma about ASICs being bad to save their own interest. Kind of like how in the 1950s people that had a lot to lose for pot being legal went into great lengths to spread false negative information of it's use. They even made a movie called Reefer Madness that depict pot smokers going wild crazy and running around like maniacs committing unsightly things. Will ASICs destroy the using of GPUs to mine? Not all of them, but I do find it strange the people that outcry the most are the ones that have the mining market cornered with their expensive mining rigs.

This is the perfect example of why ASICs are one of the worst things that can happen to a coin:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2182nb/kncminers_ceo_sam_cole_dumping_bitcoins_worth/

[kache]

To satisfy and appease the public, could the AIRteam add a page to the wallet, which contains the following...

A display which shows the contents/balances of the five premined blocks, visible at all times to every wallet holder. With an integrated "expenses" list below, that justifies each removed transaction. Bonus for a "user approval request", for removal/spending of coins from said balances, to pay debts. With the additional option to possibly "Donate", BTC or LTC in exchange for those coins directly. (Thus giving you the ability to pay for services in BTC or LTC, while keeping those AIR off the markets, where they would otherwise be "dumped", by the people you would normally have paid for those services. With the concept that the "Donated" values of AIR-holdings, be forcefully higher than any market-price, to also reduce temptation to dump, by those who donated for the possession of them.)

At the moment, the only way to alleviate the large values, would be to "revalue" AIR, so it was only a fraction of what it is now. This could only be done by moving all decimals of all values, over to the left, by four or five positions. Thus turning the holdings from 2,500,000 into only 250.0000 or 25.00000, which would also turn block-rewards from 3.720 into 0.00037200 or 0.00003720... Then you could SLOWLY allow reward to increase with hash-rate, instead of decrease. (Because as hash-rate increases, it is divided among more users, so there will still be less per user, but reduce the "fat wallets", of those who were "early miners". They will still be exponentially fat wallets, but not exponentially fat, by as much.) This would also require the full mined cap to be tripled, but with the decimals moved, that would not be much change, except that your premine would now be effectively 1/3 of 2.5%.

Thus... with 10 miners, they could earn about 0.00003720 per block... (/10 = 0.0000037200 per miner)
But... with 100 miners, they would earn about 0.00037200 per block... (/10/100 = 0.0000003720 per miner)

As opposed to now... (With the current steady value, but with the above stated decimal offset.)
10 miners get 0.00003720 / 10 = 0.0000037200
100 miners get (0.00003720/10) / 100 = 0.0000000372 {The /10 is for the diff-adjust}

That was just an example, but you get the idea. (Extra decimals added to show off-chart values.)

BTW, it took almost a whole 24 hours for the KGW to finally match the hash-rate of the miners. So for essentially 24 hours, the 110MHs network was mining with reward as if they were 220MHs, thus, getting nearly half the reward for mining... (Average of 75% of what they deserved.) If another 110MHs jumps on the net now, they would get a HUGE chunk of that low-diff, then leave once the KGW eventually moved up, and leave us mining all day long again, for 75%, while that miner had just gotten about 200% for a few hours of work. With that much hashing-power they would not need to mine in a pool.)

I could prepare a more formal structure, as a true proposal, if needed. However, I do hope you see what I was getting-at.

This reduces holder-dump damage, and miner-dump damage, and also network-reduction or network-increase damages, which lead to the aforementioned in "exponential decreasing earnings, while exponential inflated holdings" both exist at once, on the same chart.

P.S. This has other advantages too... (But too complex to get into on the forums. You may already see them. )

As I said above: X11 + DGW (Dark Gravity Wave, very fast retargets) + Cryptographic Anomaly-type rewards (higher difficulty = higher hashrate = lower rewards) would solve the issue completely for the time being, allowing the coin to recover.

[Mortimer452]

You can already tell someone has figured out the mining game of this coin. One day the net hash is over 200Mhz. The next day it's sub 100Mhz and taking up to five minutes for a block to show.

I always wondered if low retarget time could fix that problem. Something around five minutes to retarget difficulty. Multipools might still try to jump in every five minutes but at least they won't be screwing over the dedicated miners so much.

I also think that ASICs are not as bad as most people think them to be. It's almost like a group of people have created a stigma about ASICs being bad to save their own interest. Kind of like how in the 1950s people that had a lot to lose for pot being legal went into great lengths to spread false negative information of it's use. They even made a movie called Reefer Madness that depict pot smokers going wild crazy and running around like maniacs committing unsightly things. Will ASICs destroy the using of GPUs to mine? Not all of them, but I do find it strange the people that outcry the most are the ones that have the mining market cornered with their expensive mining rigs.

It's kindof a known issue with KGW, I have dealt with this on other coins as well.  KGW really only works on coins that already have a pretty big network hashrate, it does not do well with coins where the "normal" net hash is only 100-500MH.  It ramps up the diff pretty well when the hashrate increases rapidly, but does not bring it back down fast enough.

[ISAWHIM]

As I said above: X11 + DGW (Dark Gravity Wave, very fast retargets) + Cryptographic Anomaly-type rewards (higher difficulty = higher hashrate = lower rewards) would solve the issue completely for the time being, allowing the coin to recover.

No-one is hopping to an x11 coin in the first place. That is like saying "Snapping your fingers keeps dragons away".

Now that more junk coins are using x11, you will now see what hoppers do. (Those who can even get x11 to work. Which is not the majority.)

(higher difficulty = higher hashrate = lower rewards) You idiot, all coins do that now! That is part of the issue. The issue is that difference is exponentially decreasing rewards, which is too excessive for any form of stability. (Except in slow-growth, with a majority of steady-rising hashing-power. Which at the moment, and historically, has been ZERO of the coins.)

Anyways, enough with the crap about x11. If they want x11 then can make AIRx11coin, and call it A11Rcoin.

The KGW is fine, the formula just needs to be inverted to the way it reacts, and tuned to smaller time-spans. Which is essentially all DGW has done, and then renamed it, like it was some new invention.

At the moment, without a market, it doesn't matter if we make 0.1 coin a day or 500 coins a day. What matters is the actual issues that is PREVENTING a market from forming.

1: Premine excessive (Also not needed apparently.)
2: Interference with our direct value, by market manipulation on a market that doesn't exist yet.
3: Potential interference with our earnings as miners, by mining-reward manipulation without proposed limits to that manipulation.
4: Excessive low-valued holdings that can be sold below any new miners value at exponential gains. (That is every market though.)
5: Trust in "Anonymous strangers", who refuse to provide any proof of anything ever proposed. (Trade skills, Market skills, Economy skills, Identity)
6: Fear. (Silence in time of distress, failure to resolve, failure to produce, lack of intelligent reply, poor understanding of the reality behind the formulas they use, regulation without question, broken promises.)

Most of that is easy to wash away. Disclosure, Bots and PDF's won't fix any of that. Nor will x11.

You want me to write a full detailed proposal, for agreement of existing investment holders? I will be more than happy to setup a full formal proposal for step-by-step changes, for discussion, for acceptance with the intention of getting this coin off the floor and moving forward. You need a face, I have one to show. (I actually volunteered that as a service once before, in our skype chats, with AIRteam other investors.)

The only reason I am even still buying and mining, is because x11 was not introduced and there is still potential, and there is still time to achieve that potential. However, that window is closing, and no "marketing stunt" will reverse that in the current state the coin is in, with issues #1-#6 stated above.

Exactly what are you doing to "help your investment"? (x11 won't do shit for your investment if there is no-one to buy.)

P.S. Buy-orders BTC volume is down to 1 BTC now that I removed my BTC from the list. (It is still there, ready to snipe, just wanted to show you how much of a "not-me" market is there. Add the 1.5BTC that AIRteam has of yours, and that is still only 2.5BTC. How is x11 going to "solve" that? It will not. Nor will a bot. At the most, a bot can absorb the last 1BTC on the chart.)

[Real_GM]

While ASIC vs X11 debate is a valid one, I think it is currently irrelevant to AIRcoin.

The only reason why we invested/mined AIR is because of the "investment pool".  The hashing algorithm is just a side note. 

As other critics have mentioned, one of the major reason why it failed is because of the lack of marketing.  While large dump of miners did attributed to the downfall of AIR, it is because it wasn't marketed well enough to attract other BTC holders to invest in the coin.

While it could be painful, what the dev should have done is really pump AIR up and earn enough BTC from the initial rise and use them to "play" the market for gains.  Of course, after the initial pump and dump many people will be hurting, but perhaps the sheer volume and publicity would have generated enough attention for many people to hold their coins.

The Devs were just a bit too naive thinking that the word "investment" can have enough power to lure more people in.

Nonetheless, I still believe the idea can work, but the coin needs to start/restart with a huge bang.

[ISAWHIM]

Nonetheless, I still believe the idea can work, but the coin needs to start/restart with a huge bang.

That was one of the "other gains" of potential from the proposal. (A decimal-shift and full reward adjustment and premine-value reduction via a "cap-adjustment", would have warranted a full reset of the charts on the exchange.)

We already know the value, and have a "minimum" entrance level now... This would be the ideal time for that "reset", with the adjustments. Provided with a reset of the forum-pages to reflect the changes which would not be relevant to the old coins attributes.

Then you release the market, and hype it up. Not now... It will just be a wasted investment. (Wasted investment in marketing.)

By the way... "Investment" actually keeps people away... The word is related to more scams than good.
- IPO (95% Scam)
- HYIP (100% Scam {Another word for Pyramid, created by business men/scammers of today})
- Stocks/Bonds/Commodities (Though the word is assumed... When actually mentioned, it hurts image.)
- Investment Risk Management Services (Honest service but invokes honest fear, as it was intended to do.)
- Retirement Investing
- Time-share Investment (Another 75% scam)

It is a word that is better left to casual discussion, not quoted within text or "plans". Alternative words are usually used, that imply investment, for that reason. That, or left open for natural assumption of the obvious. That is why they don't use it unless you are well established, and already successful in a market. (Thus, a real poor marketing decision for a day-1 release statement or profile.)

That image too, is easy to wash-away. (Though I am sure they don't have a clue how to do that, or will wash then rinse and repeat, out of habit.)