Bitcoin Savings and Trust | Home | Closed

[pirateat40]

My misunderstanding then.  I was under the impression that once coins were in, they were in, and it was only in the later rounds of funding that the election would take place.

No, at anytime if a lender is in a higher place (by account age) they you can force lenders out.

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[PatrickHarnett]

My misunderstanding then.  I was under the impression that once coins were in, they were in, and it was only in the later rounds of funding that the election would take place.

No, at anytime if a lender is in a higher place (by account age) they you can force lenders out.

No problem. 

Back at day job, but at least I'm still enjoying summer.

[notme]

The result of a little scheme where I gathered the first 51% of the lenders and got em all to vote for the status quo.

I wish i could limit votes to members of btclending.

Why not put the poll behind the login on btclending.com, and limit it to one vote per account?

[pirateat40]

The result of a little scheme where I gathered the first 51% of the lenders and got em all to vote for the status quo.

I wish i could limit votes to members of btclending.

Why not put the poll behind the login on btclending.com, and limit it to one vote per account?

I just thought to eliminate the risk of people thinking I was swaying the vote I'd just do it on the forums.  In all honesty when I did the poll I got a lot of comments from my lenders asking why I would change things.  Enough that I think if we did another vote we would end up with the same outcome or more.

[BTCurious]

Amazing, I'm still in! Apparently I'm not a "new lender" anymore.
I do understand the reasons for doing it the way you do, but for me it does feel fairer to just bump out the latest deposits, not the latest accounts. In the end it's your decision though.

[pirateat40]

Amazing, I'm still in! Apparently I'm not a "new lender" anymore.
I do understand the reasons for doing it the way you do, but for me it does feel fairer to just bump out the latest deposits, not the latest accounts. In the end it's your decision though.

Satoshi could come in and wipe all of you guys out.

[copumpkin]

Amazing, I'm still in! Apparently I'm not a "new lender" anymore.
I do understand the reasons for doing it the way you do, but for me it does feel fairer to just bump out the latest deposits, not the latest accounts. In the end it's your decision though.

Satoshi could come in and wipe all of you guys out.

Alright guys, game's over, I'm digging up my stash of nazi gold.

[coin_toss]

What has happened, exactly?

One of my early lenders just pushed out some new people.

You mean they deposited after you have updated the OP to 0BTC?

Yea, forcing out new people like a freight train going through a parking lot.

In that case, what if early adopters keep deposit more BTC even when you have 0BTC storage left?
Would that mean more late adopters getting kicked out???

That's how it works. I don't think it's fair either.

Perhaps it is not fair, but the point of a business is not fairness but to make money. I am a late adopter but i totally support early adopters being able to do this - early adopters should be rewarded for the risk they took. It also gives me an incentive not to withdraw my Bitcoins, so that one day i will become an early adopter. Plus it makes Pirate's life easier if he has fewer people to deal with, meaning he can in theory devote more time to finding more clients etc - which is good for everybody.

[pirateat40]

What has happened, exactly?

One of my early lenders just pushed out some new people.

You mean they deposited after you have updated the OP to 0BTC?

Yea, forcing out new people like a freight train going through a parking lot.

In that case, what if early adopters keep deposit more BTC even when you have 0BTC storage left?
Would that mean more late adopters getting kicked out???

That's how it works. I don't think it's fair either.

Perhaps it is not fair, but the point of a business is not fairness but to make money. I am a late adopter but i totally support early adopters being able to do this - early adopters should be rewarded for the risk they took. It also gives me an incentive not to withdraw my Bitcoins, so that one day i will become an early adopter. Plus it makes Pirate's life easier if he has fewer people to deal with, meaning he can in theory devote more time to finding more clients etc - which is good for everybody.

Wow, the first public NON ATTACK on me. 

[copumpkin]

What has happened, exactly?

One of my early lenders just pushed out some new people.

You mean they deposited after you have updated the OP to 0BTC?

Yea, forcing out new people like a freight train going through a parking lot.

In that case, what if early adopters keep deposit more BTC even when you have 0BTC storage left?
Would that mean more late adopters getting kicked out???

That's how it works. I don't think it's fair either.

Perhaps it is not fair, but the point of a business is not fairness but to make money. I am a late adopter but i totally support early adopters being able to do this - early adopters should be rewarded for the risk they took. It also gives me an incentive not to withdraw my Bitcoins, so that one day i will become an early adopter. Plus it makes Pirate's life easier if he has fewer people to deal with, meaning he can in theory devote more time to finding more clients etc - which is good for everybody.

Wow, the first public NON ATTACK on me.  

Here, I'll chime in, then. I think you're doing an excellent job with this whole endeavor, and for what it's worth, I voted "do whatever you want" on the earlier poll on this matter. I trust your judgment, regardless of whether or not it benefits me (even though it usually does).

I do understand the unease of lenders who are worried about getting kicked out, but it uncertainty in lending isn't unique to you. Most real-world lending situations allow borrowers to pay back money early. This is often inconvenient for lenders, especially when it happens, for example, in mortgages, when borrowers refinance their homes at the worst possible times, but it's just the reality of the lending business. There are lending contracts (bonds and such) that don't allow people to repay early, but otherwise it's usually at the borrower's discretion. It'd probably lead to more good-will in the long term for lenders to keep their dealings to themselves, so the people they eject aren't aware of their reasons for ejection (it's human nature to feel a bit rejected if you know someone else kicked you out of the cool kids' club), but we're mostly mature adults around here, so I hope most people can handle that. They'd better be able to, when I finish digging up this nazi gold

So anyway, keep it up! I appreciate everything you've done for me and am sure everybody else does too (or would, if they could get over being butt-hurt over the "unfairness" and realize that you gave them free money at rates higher than anyone else does). If you had to return my principal today, I'd still feel remarkably lucky to have been able to participate and even better to have made a handsome reward in doing so. Thank you!

(where's a brown-nosed smiley when you need one, anyway?)

[PatrickHarnett]

Wow, the first public NON ATTACK on me. 

I wasn't a first-adopter, but risked some coins to someone I didn't know.  I now have quite a bit tied up and look forward to the interest payments.  Long may it last.

Thanks P@40 from the starfish.

[pirateat40]

Oh my, thanks guys!

[chungenhung]

If you think about it, early adopters/investors always takes on a greater risk, and thus demand a greater reward.
Any early investor in early startup companies can become filthy rich, or lose everything.
Think of those early investors in Google, Microsoft, Apple, they all become millionaires.
But, the not so fortunate ones who invested in other bunch of companies that go belly up during the .com bubble burst.

[pirateat40]

I am late to the party but I am also okay with how things are going. It took me a while to figure out the system but that's fine.

I had some coins get sent back. How do I know when it is okay to send them again?

Thx

Check back tomorrow around 10 AM CST.

[BTCurious]

It also gives me an incentive not to withdraw my Bitcoins, so that one day i will become an early adopter.

This doesn't actually work. It's the age of your account that counts.

[payb.tc]

It also gives me an incentive not to withdraw my Bitcoins, so that one day i will become an early adopter.

This doesn't actually work. It's the age of your account that counts.

it would work if people before him quit, moving him up the ladder.

the freight train through the car park wasn't me by the way.

[brendio]

Here's a suggestion against my own best interests: Given the level of supply of willing lenders, have you considered adopting a market-based mechanism for determining the interest rate, either on btclending.com or GLBSE? Lenders could bid on the interest rate they're prepared to accept and you pay the minimum interest rate required to obtain the necessary funds you require. myc4 works sort of like this.

[ineededausername]

Here's a suggestion against my own best interests: Given the level of supply of willing lenders, have you considered adopting a market-based mechanism for determining the interest rate, either on btclending.com or GLBSE? Lenders could bid on the interest rate they're prepared to accept and you pay the minimum interest rate required to obtain the necessary funds you require. myc4 works sort of like this.

No, no, you're not supposed to talk about that! Shhh!

[BTCurious]

If he offers to borrow at average market price, then he doesn't have a large amount of people wanting to get in anymore. By doing it this way, he can guarantee having even large orders filled on very short notice.

[copumpkin]

Here's a suggestion against my own best interests: Given the level of supply of willing lenders, have you considered adopting a market-based mechanism for determining the interest rate, either on btclending.com or GLBSE? Lenders could bid on the interest rate they're prepared to accept and you pay the minimum interest rate required to obtain the necessary funds you require. myc4 works sort of like this.

No, no, you're not supposed to talk about that! Shhh!

There are benefits to working with a handful of high-net-worth investors rather than a load of small ones with varying interest rates, though. Even ignoring the limited partnership regulatory issues and the rules preventing them from advertising to the public, I'm sure many hedge funds would still seek out large private investors simply because it makes book-keeping easier and it's probably easier to get large investors to agree to part with their money for a couple of years. Actually, I'm not so sure that things would stay the same with no regulation, but I'd expect some would Next, we need to see what the money management landscape looks like in a land with no regulation!

Not that pirateat40 is a hedge fund, since his risk/reward structure is almost inverted, but there are some similarities