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Question: How would you rate Bitcoin Savings & Trust?
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Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

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Author Topic: Bitcoin Savings and Trust | Home | Closed  (Read 774575 times)
notme
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February 03, 2012, 01:25:32 PM
 #521

This is likely a scam, put me on the list... Lol.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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February 03, 2012, 01:50:25 PM
 #522

This is likely a scam, put me on the list... Lol.
many peeps made very sound returns from Mr Mad for up to 20 years & there's no claw back with BTC  Grin

it wouldn't take very long at these rates of return to get one's investment back & so then to be just playing with the house's BTC or more accurately other later investor's BTC  Wink

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pirateat40
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February 03, 2012, 03:52:44 PM
 #523

having just come across this thread a day or 2 ago & read it all through I feel it's about time for the fortnightly 'why this looks so obviously dodgy' post again, so here goes, it's similarity to a Madoff ponzy scheme in that it's very hard to get in to, by referral only, peeps clamoring to invest & singing it & it's maker's praises, pays above average returns, set up & run by a person of high reputation (Mr Mad was prior head of the NY stock Xe), suspected of making these great & regular returns by doing something not quite kosher, feeder funds appearing & referral bonuses, no oversight & doesn't allow due diligence (this understandable in the circumstances), marked communal hostility to any nae sayers (FO Troll etc), a clever humorous & self depreciating strategy of drawing in investors with reverse psychology, building an on-call extra large fund that could be draw down for that fateful day when one sails off in to the Caribbean sunset

ARRRRRG... My booty has been plundered!  

Hayday of pirating appears to be 1600 - 1750, so though it still goes on probably being born 300+ or 400 years too late would be more accurate & funtimes, the later ones mostly ending up on the gibbet - though free-booting in the US independence & civil wars many found rewarding

PMing you now to ask to be added to the waiting list for new accounts & hope that you won't make me walk the plank so that your motley crew of jolly backers can keel-haul me  Tongue

edit: an ever expanding need for more funds to be deposited (bigger volume new clients) but playing hard to get (some funds returned, no new accounts atm) as this can easily be done with existing peeps wanting more of those big returns, preferring large investors to the small fry (Mr Mad liked Hedge funds & banks more towards the end)

if this is as profitable for Pirate as for the investors why hasn't he amassed enough funds by now to be self financing & so keep 100% of the profit, also knowing & being trusted by rl peeps with $10,000s of cash to move around wouldn't some of those be interested in fully funding his ops, it's not like buying BTC anonymously via cash is so hard from the States atm afaik - perhaps they could sell something on TSR to raise a few, a BTC back to cash op might make more sense, in fairness I can see some scenarios where certain peeps would have a lot of cash & just want no hassle BTC regularly so I'm keeping an open mind on all the above synchronicity for the moment. I'll PM P@40 after I've meditated upon it with some Cuba libres, perhaps after all my freely given analysis & input he'll fast track my account  Wink


Woot!  Man you make it sound so good... I want an account now!

Oh BTW, my name and the reference in my profile "200 years too late" are all Jimmy Buffett related.

Arrrr matey, thanks for your post, it was a truly enjoyable read. Smiley

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February 03, 2012, 04:01:55 PM
 #524

lol

Just a shot over your bows matey, it's how I do DD, if it were to cause a run on the FPS&T bank then it's a shaky business model that a single post from a non client can bring it down/rock it such or it's rats disembarking the sinking ship & either way I'd like to know first before I'm invited on board or not as the case may be

Rule Britannia & all that, Pip pip

Otoh

... so you'll fast track my account then, yep  Wink


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pirateat40
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February 03, 2012, 04:14:43 PM
 #525

lol

Just a shot over your bows matey, it's how I do DD, if it were to cause a run on the FPS&T bank then it's a shaky business model that a single post from a non client can bring it down/rock it such or it's rats disembarking the sinking ship & either way I'd like to know first before I'm invited on board or not as the case may be

Rule Britannia & all that, Pip pip

Otoh

... so you'll fast track my account then, yep  Wink



Oh, well hmmm.... Sure I can get you into this rare investment opportunity but its very exclusive and I'm doing you a favor here by just requiring a 200 BTC non-refundable sign up fee.  Trust me you will make that back in a week.  Oh and did I mention you need to jump on this now... I have so many waiting on the list.  Lets get this on the DL after all, I LIKE You.

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February 03, 2012, 04:17:03 PM
 #526

lol

Just a shot over your bows matey, it's how I do DD, if it were to cause a run on the FPS&T bank then it's a shaky business model that a single post from a non client can bring it down/rock it such or it's rats disembarking the sinking ship & either way I'd like to know first before I'm invited on board or not as the case may be

Rule Britannia & all that, Pip pip

Otoh

... so you'll fast track my account then, yep  Wink



Oh, well hmmm.... Sure I can get you into this rare investment opportunity but its very exclusive and I'm doing you a favor here by just requiring a 200 BTC non-refundable sign up fee.  Trust me you will make that back in a week.  Oh and did I mention you need to jump on this now... I have so many waiting on the list.  Lets get this on the DL after all, I LIKE You.

If I were you, Otoh, I'd take it Wink

(BFL)^2 < 0
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February 03, 2012, 04:23:49 PM
 #527

lol

Just a shot over your bows matey, it's how I do DD, if it were to cause a run on the FPS&T bank then it's a shaky business model that a single post from a non client can bring it down/rock it such or it's rats disembarking the sinking ship & either way I'd like to know first before I'm invited on board or not as the case may be

Rule Britannia & all that, Pip pip

Otoh

... so you'll fast track my account then, yep  Wink



Oh, well hmmm.... Sure I can get you into this rare investment opportunity but its very exclusive and I'm doing you a favor here by just requiring a 200 BTC non-refundable sign up fee.  Trust me you will make that back in a week.  Oh and did I mention you need to jump on this now... I have so many waiting on the list.  Lets get this on the DL after all, I LIKE You.

If I were you, Otoh, I'd take it Wink

PM-ing P@40 right now, even worst case I'll get something back from writing an expose of how I got you all got plundered so, that & shorting at 10:1 on Bitcoinica when I publish it

PS Pirate - I've edited you in a 50' luxury pirate yacht (with secret underwater lasers) in my first post so that you can scour the Carib for Tod/Tom Williams & avenge all those who've been scammed of their BTC - hence the delay in PM-ing, I'm now right on it...

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copumpkin
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February 03, 2012, 04:24:07 PM
 #528

ARRR
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February 03, 2012, 04:28:28 PM
 #529

PM-ing P@40 right now, even worst case I'll get something back writing an expose of how I got plundered so

Is it still considered plundering if you ask for it?

Coming Soon!™ © imsaguy 2011-2013, All rights reserved.

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February 03, 2012, 05:18:40 PM
 #530

PM sent, though after I just googled DL - you can keep that DL shit dood  Undecided

Screen shots upcoming just as soon as P@40 gives me an OK to deposit, ID & P/W to join ur crazy BTC privateering venture

Mt.Gox BTC Code good to go, check

this needs to be in the next few hours as Cuba libres are now kicking in

suerte companieros


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February 03, 2012, 05:44:09 PM
 #531

 Cry P@40 won't let me jump the queue for new accounts sob, therefor no immediate screneies of my mega BTC upload to Pirate Inc, so I shall just lurk around this thread now until a potential future departure date

a still small voice floats out from Made-offs distant VIP prison cell ~ yes, yes - ur doing it right don't you accepts him after that parlee (but don't forget to buy that boat & install yourself at ur anon private island before being outed/going AWOL - if only, in my time, BTC how I wish, it'd all have been so simple then)

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runlinux
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February 03, 2012, 05:45:07 PM
 #532

its ok.

i have been in queue for a month now...

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February 03, 2012, 05:50:03 PM
 #533

it's np my BTC are doing fine in other happy hunting grounds atm & opps for you Yanks out there, in my last thread the sob = as in *cries & not one of ur anachronism insults btw, gosh one has to be so internationally internetally culturally aware nowadays

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February 03, 2012, 05:58:05 PM
 #534

it's np my BTC are doing fine in other happy hunting grounds atm & opps for you Yanks out there, in my last thread the sob = as in *cries & not one of ur anachronism insults btw, **** one has to be so internationally internetally culturally aware nowadays

You said the g*** word Sad

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February 03, 2012, 06:33:21 PM
 #535

"gosh a slang word that is used as an exclamation, or to denote surprise
"oh my gosh!" "Gosh, how did you do that?""

u guys are just taking the piss now - though I had to google P@40's tgif just now so what do I know

@ recess - nope or ur mom would be too jealous, she hated it when I did that to ur gramps too fyi

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February 04, 2012, 01:40:13 AM
 #536

having just come across this thread a day or 2 ago & read it all through I feel it's about time for the fortnightly 'why this looks so obviously dodgy' post again, so here goes, it's similarity to a Madoff ponzy scheme in that it's very hard to get in to, by referral only, peeps clamoring to invest & singing it & it's maker's praises, pays above average returns, set up & run by a person of high reputation (Mr Mad was prior head of the NY stock Xe), suspected of making these great & regular returns by doing something not quite kosher (front trading his stock broking clients), feeder funds appearing & referral bonuses, no oversight & doesn't allow due diligence (this understandable in the circumstances), marked communal hostility to any nae sayers (FO Troll etc), a clever humorous & self depreciating strategy of drawing in investors with reverse psychology, building an on-call extra large fund that could be drawn down for that fateful day when one sails off on a spanking new 50 foot yacht (with a not so ironic little skull & cross bones pendent) in to the Caribbean sunset - I have too much imagination, I know  Smiley

ARRRRRG... My booty has been plundered!  

Hayday of pirating appears to be 1600 - 1750, so though it still goes on probably being born 300+ or 400 years too late would be more accurate & funtimes, the later ones mostly ending up on the gibbet - though free-booting in the US independence & civil wars many found rewarding

PMing you now to ask to be added to the waiting list for new accounts & hope that you won't make me walk the plank so that your motley crew of jolly backers can keel-haul me  Tongue

edit: an ever expanding need for more funds to be deposited (bigger volume new clients) but playing hard to get (some funds returned, no new accounts atm) as this can easily be done with existing peeps wanting more of those big returns, preferring large investors to the small fry (Mr Mad liked Hedge funds & banks more towards the end)

if this is as profitable for Pirate as for the investors why hasn't he amassed enough funds by now to be self financing & so keep 100% of the profit, also knowing & being trusted by rl peeps with $10,000s of cash to move around wouldn't some of those be interested in fully funding his ops, it's not like buying BTC anonymously via cash is so hard from the States atm afaik - perhaps they could sell something on TSR to raise a few, a BTC back to cash op might make more sense, in fairness I can see some scenarios where certain peeps would have a lot of cash & just want no hassle BTC regularly so I'm keeping an open mind on all the above synchronicity for the moment. I'll PM P@40 after I've meditated upon it with some Cuba libres, perhaps after all my freely given analysis & input he'll fast track my account  Wink


As nobody has bothered to reply to this i will take it on myself to do so.

You raise a number of good arguments supporting your apparent view that Pirate is running a ponzi scheme. Your main arguments seem to be:
- There are a number of similarities between the Madoff ponzy scheme and Pirate's loan program.
- If pirate is making as much money as he claims, why doesn't he use his own money and be fully self-financed?
- If pirate is truly dealing with real life people with large amounts of cash why don't they just finance him?

You conclude that pirate is one day going to close up shop, take everyone's money, and sail off into the sunset.

I will leave aside your third point, which you have already answered yourself when you say 'I can see some scenarios where certain peeps would have a lot of cash & just want no hassle BTC regularly.' As for your first 2 points:

The existance of similarities between a ponzi scheme and pirate's loan program is of only small significance. This kind of evidence is not really evidence at all. It is like saying Bitcoin has gone up 4000% in two years, and it rewards early adopters, therefore it is a ponzi. I'm sure you can see the weakness in this kind of argument. It is good to be skeptical of things that sound too good to be true, but you need to be careful not to be so blinded by skepticism that you miss out on legitimate opportunities.

As for why pirate doesn't simply use his own money, my understanding is that pirate IS using his own money - but his clients require so many bitcoins that his own resources are not enough. If he is dealing with people with large amounts of cash, then it makes sense that he would not always have enough resources on his own and would need to borrow some from us.

The two main reasons why I trust pirate are as follows:

Pirate has revealed information rendering himself 100% identifiable. Thus there is no sailing off into the sunset anonymously (of course he will not be identifiable to you, so you will have to take my word for it). What this means is that if pirate were to run off with everyone's money it would result in both criminal (ie fines and prison time) and civil (ie recovering the money owed) legal proceedings.

Pirate has launched a business known as GPUMAX, which is still in beta but early indications are that it will be very successful. This is not a sham business created merely to encourage trust by his investors, as it is obvious to anyone who has been accepted into GPUMAX that there has been an enormous amount of work gone into the site and business model. By sailing off into the sunset with everyone's money he would lose this business, which in my opinion has the potential to be far more profitable than his loaning program.

Obviously there is some level of risk in investing with pirate. For me, the risk is about the same level as investing in bitcoins to begin with. Remember, the government could decide tomorrow to declare bitcoins illegal, in which case the bitcoin price will crash as people rush to get their coins out. You will need to make your own assessment of the risk and decide whether you want to go ahead and invest anyway.
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February 04, 2012, 01:57:55 AM
 #537

having just come across this thread a day or 2 ago & read it all through I feel it's about time for the fortnightly 'why this looks so obviously dodgy' post again, so here goes, it's similarity to a Madoff ponzy scheme in that it's very hard to get in to, by referral only, peeps clamoring to invest & singing it & it's maker's praises, pays above average returns, set up & run by a person of high reputation (Mr Mad was prior head of the NY stock Xe), suspected of making these great & regular returns by doing something not quite kosher (front trading his stock broking clients), feeder funds appearing & referral bonuses, no oversight & doesn't allow due diligence (this understandable in the circumstances), marked communal hostility to any nae sayers (FO Troll etc), a clever humorous & self depreciating strategy of drawing in investors with reverse psychology, building an on-call extra large fund that could be drawn down for that fateful day when one sails off on a spanking new 50 foot yacht (with a not so ironic little skull & cross bones pendent) in to the Caribbean sunset - I have too much imagination, I know  Smiley

ARRRRRG... My booty has been plundered!  

Hayday of pirating appears to be 1600 - 1750, so though it still goes on probably being born 300+ or 400 years too late would be more accurate & funtimes, the later ones mostly ending up on the gibbet - though free-booting in the US independence & civil wars many found rewarding

PMing you now to ask to be added to the waiting list for new accounts & hope that you won't make me walk the plank so that your motley crew of jolly backers can keel-haul me  Tongue

edit: an ever expanding need for more funds to be deposited (bigger volume new clients) but playing hard to get (some funds returned, no new accounts atm) as this can easily be done with existing peeps wanting more of those big returns, preferring large investors to the small fry (Mr Mad liked Hedge funds & banks more towards the end)

if this is as profitable for Pirate as for the investors why hasn't he amassed enough funds by now to be self financing & so keep 100% of the profit, also knowing & being trusted by rl peeps with $10,000s of cash to move around wouldn't some of those be interested in fully funding his ops, it's not like buying BTC anonymously via cash is so hard from the States atm afaik - perhaps they could sell something on TSR to raise a few, a BTC back to cash op might make more sense, in fairness I can see some scenarios where certain peeps would have a lot of cash & just want no hassle BTC regularly so I'm keeping an open mind on all the above synchronicity for the moment. I'll PM P@40 after I've meditated upon it with some Cuba libres, perhaps after all my freely given analysis & input he'll fast track my account  Wink


As nobody has bothered to reply to this i will take it on myself to do so.

You raise a number of good arguments supporting your apparent view that Pirate is running a ponzi scheme. Your main arguments seem to be:
- There are a number of similarities between the Madoff ponzy scheme and Pirate's loan program.
- If pirate is making as much money as he claims, why doesn't he use his own money and be fully self-financed?
- If pirate is truly dealing with real life people with large amounts of cash why don't they just finance him?

You conclude that pirate is one day going to close up shop, take everyone's money, and sail off into the sunset.

I will leave aside your third point, which you have already answered yourself when you say 'I can see some scenarios where certain peeps would have a lot of cash & just want no hassle BTC regularly.' As for your first 2 points:

The existance of similarities between a ponzi scheme and pirate's loan program is of only small significance. This kind of evidence is not really evidence at all. It is like saying Bitcoin has gone up 4000% in two years, and it rewards early adopters, therefore it is a ponzi. I'm sure you can see the weakness in this kind of argument. It is good to be skeptical of things that sound too good to be true, but you need to be careful not to be so blinded by skepticism that you miss out on legitimate opportunities.

As for why pirate doesn't simply use his own money, my understanding is that pirate IS using his own money - but his clients require so many bitcoins that his own resources are not enough. If he is dealing with people with large amounts of cash, then it makes sense that he would not always have enough resources on his own and would need to borrow some from us.

The two main reasons why I trust pirate are as follows:

Pirate has revealed information rendering himself 100% identifiable. Thus there is no sailing off into the sunset anonymously (of course he will not be identifiable to you, so you will have to take my word for it). What this means is that if pirate were to run off with everyone's money it would result in both criminal (ie fines and prison time) and civil (ie recovering the money owed) legal proceedings.

Pirate has launched a business known as GPUMAX, which is still in beta but early indications are that it will be very successful. This is not a sham business created merely to encourage trust by his investors, as it is obvious to anyone who has been accepted into GPUMAX that there has been an enormous amount of work gone into the site and business model. By sailing off into the sunset with everyone's money he would lose this business, which in my opinion has the potential to be far more profitable than his loaning program.

Obviously there is some level of risk in investing with pirate. For me, the risk is about the same level as investing in bitcoins to begin with. Remember, the government could decide tomorrow to declare bitcoins illegal, in which case the bitcoin price will crash as people rush to get their coins out. You will need to make your own assessment of the risk and decide whether you want to go ahead and invest anyway.

Thank you for a well reasoned response. To answer the question about him using his own money for business instead of the (more expensive) money from his lenders, he's commented several times that he's going to keep doing this until it stops being (as) profitable for him. Once he reaches a point where his business is fully self-sustaining and he has enough disposable income to finance all his operations, the lending program will obviously just stop. For now, he gets more benefit from borrowing our coins than using his own money, but he's made no guarantee that will continue forever, and when (not if: these interest rates simply aren't sustainable in the long run) it stops he'll just return our money and we'll have made a lot of money. Sure, he'll have made a crapton of it, but people enter business agreements because they're mutually beneficial Smiley

This is all assuming he's honest, of course. If you're really wondering what sort of person he is, come to IRC and stick around a bit. He talks a decent amount and has been around for ages.
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February 04, 2012, 02:41:11 AM
 #538

Wait,


 Are people questioning Pirate's 'Dis-Honesty' and saying he has 'impeccable references?'

Is he turning out to be an honest and respectable Pirate that likes Jimmy Buffet ?


Pirate say it ain't so. You are a bad pirate, right?



Corporations have been enthroned, An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. ~Abe Lincoln 1ApJdWUdSWYw8n8HEATYhHXA9EYoRTy7c4
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February 04, 2012, 03:12:33 AM
 #539

Wait,


 Are people questioning Pirate's 'Dis-Honesty' and saying he has 'impeccable references?'

Is he turning out to be an honest and respectable Pirate that likes Jimmy Buffet ?


Pirate say it ain't so. Your a bad pirate, right?




It seems I've drifted from my pirate ways.  I shall come back tomorrow with sword in hand and deal with these scallywags.  Arrrrrr

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February 05, 2012, 05:20:41 AM
 #540

Sent you a PM

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