Bitcoin Forum
December 10, 2016, 08:55:21 AM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Poll
Question: How would you rate Bitcoin Savings & Trust?
5 - Excellent
4 - Very Good
3 - Good
2 - Fair
1 - Poor
No comment just show me the results.

Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

Pages: « 1 ... 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 [62] 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Bitcoin Savings and Trust | Home | Closed  (Read 774501 times)
CecilNiosaki
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 205


View Profile
July 03, 2012, 04:09:01 PM
 #1221

Quote


Speaking of business, how does he, as a single person, manage both the investment side of things as well as the other side of his business, and still have time to post/chat on IRC? You can't tell me that his work is easier than MtGox, BitInstant, or Bitcoinica (either before or after its demise), and yet, that's the scale of how many Bitcoins he is dealing with.


Likely the same way that I, as an Online Community Manager, have time to do analytics on forums, develop marketing and social media strategies, and more all while having the time to chat with players in-game and through IRC and other medias. Ironically, it doesn't take that much time to write on IRC, and I think it's rather silly that you're going to try to use that.
1481360121
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481360121

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481360121
Reply with quote  #2

1481360121
Report to moderator
1481360121
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481360121

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481360121
Reply with quote  #2

1481360121
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481360121
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481360121

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481360121
Reply with quote  #2

1481360121
Report to moderator
1481360121
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481360121

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481360121
Reply with quote  #2

1481360121
Report to moderator
1481360121
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481360121

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481360121
Reply with quote  #2

1481360121
Report to moderator
copumpkin
Donator
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 266


I'm actually a pineapple


View Profile
July 03, 2012, 04:10:08 PM
 #1222

pirate, just had an idea, why don't you start an account, where, people can send any amount of money to, as donations basically, it becomes part of the pool. Let that be a non-stop recurring interest account.
Love it!
Oh HELL no! Pirate should NEVER be trusted with money destined for charity. That would be like the pension funds that invested in Madoff.
This is an operation being run more responsibly than many brick-and-mortar firms. Dwolla could certainly learn a thing or two. I also have my suspicions that this service may be a primary reasons the exchange rates have been mostly stable since March, making Bitcoin that much more attractive to non-tech businesses. Tip o' th' hat to the Pirate.
My God, Vandroiy was right with the Eve comparison. In Eve, the biggest scam of all time was also considered by many to be the most reputable business there was. Now, before you say that this doesn't prove anything, it actually brings up a good point: Why hasn't anything ever gone wrong with his business? Sure, there have been some minor payout issues, but that's not his business.

Speaking of business, how does he, as a single person, manage both the investment side of things as well as the other side of his business, and still have time to post/chat on IRC? You can't tell me that his work is easier than MtGox, BitInstant, or Bitcoinica (either before or after its demise), and yet, that's the scale of how many Bitcoins he is dealing with.

Speaking of scale, while I normally could care less that people are falling for a ponzi, this has gotten to the scale where if something bad happened, it would STILL directly affect me, even though I'm not invested in Pirate. I decided to remain silent before, but this has gone too far. It's now at the point where the only way to ensure that you aren't exposed to Pirate is to drop Bitcoin entirely, and as a supporter of Bitcoin, I despise that staying out of Bitcoin is the only rational thing to do as long as Pirate is around.

People tried this before and it didn't really catch on much, but if you really think it's going to crash, go short on him. So many people believe strongly in him that I'm sure you'll find a counterparty who is willing to take regular insurance payments from you in exchange for coverage if things go south. My issues with CDSes don't really apply to high-profile people like you, because there's no doubt that you aren't pirateat40 and you have little power to cause him to default. So look for a counterparty for a large OTC CDS Smiley Have fun!

You can be like one of the protagonists of http://www.amazon.com/Big-Short-Doomsday-Thorndike-Nonfiction/dp/141043026X, fighting the bubble and making money on the way down.
Vandroiy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1036


View Profile
July 03, 2012, 04:28:55 PM
 #1223

copumpkin: I'm just having a lengthy discussion why shorting BS&T doesn't work properly. The offers in the past were not true shorts or had other issues. I know people who would short the living hell out of BS&T, and this is not an understatement.


No one is going to convince anyone else.

I know for a fact that the little flamewar triggered multiple withdrawals, independent on the rate changes. We just need to keep going until the kill switch is flipped.

Chilling new deposits alone should bring the thing down, that's why it's essential we do not leave this thread here alone. I think we're pretty close to the limit. Heck, there are some large asks and sales on Gox today, could be the remainder of the active wallet on its way to Malaysia.


At Goat insurance... gmaxwell showed me a post where Goat offered 200 BTC for evidence pointing him to child pornography or something. Claim it a joke or whatever; gmaxwell was not amused, I trust him, post was edited later, Goat is blacklisted.
Maged
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260


View Profile
July 03, 2012, 04:30:41 PM
 #1224

Pretty strong words Maged. Have anything to back them up?
Stop being like that. I've already brought up new points, in addition to the existing ones. However, if you'd prefer, I can play this game your way: What's wrong with strong words, especially when the evidence backs it up? What's wrong with rational thinking?
Quote
Speaking of business, how does he, as a single person...

Likely the same way that I, as an Online Community Manager, have time to do analytics on forums, develop marketing and social media strategies, and more all while having the time to chat with players in-game and through IRC and other medias. Ironically, it doesn't take that much time to write on IRC, and I think it's rather silly that you're going to try to use that.
Except he clearly has enough time to do all of that, which I don't dispute. In fact, he's doing just about all of that already! I fail to see how that leaves him with enough time to do sales, especially since I believe that he said that they are in-person exchanges?
People tried this before and it didn't really catch on much, but if you really think it's going to crash, go short on him. So many people believe strongly in him that I'm sure you'll find a counterparty who is willing to take regular insurance payments from you in exchange for coverage if things go south. My issues with CDSes don't really apply to high-profile people like you, because there's no doubt that you aren't pirateat40 and you have little power to cause him to default. So look for a counterparty for a large OTC CDS Smiley Have fun!

You can be like one of the protagonists of http://www.amazon.com/Big-Short-Doomsday-Thorndike-Nonfiction/dp/141043026X, fighting the bubble and making money on the way down.
Again, I could care less about Pirate. I don't want to go long or short with him. I'm much more concerned about how his default will effect Bitcoin, both in terms of the price, but also in terms of how its perceived. At that point, I'm also concerned about how it'll affect the reputation of the forum. If someone as big and reputable as Pirate can get away with this, why should any reputation here be trusted?
Maged, if you want we could do some sort of insurance or bet on pirate defaulting. That way you can stay in BTC.

BTC is an experiment and well... this is how it goes:)
That doesn't help me if BTC is worth 50% of what it was before he defaulted.

John (John K.)
Global Troll-buster and
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1092


Will read PM's. Have more time lately


View Profile
July 03, 2012, 04:30:46 PM
 #1225

copumpkin: I'm just having a lengthy discussion why shorting BS&T doesn't work properly. The offers in the past were not true shorts or had other issues. I know people who would short the living hell out of BS&T, and this is not an understatement.


No one is going to convince anyone else.

I know for a fact that the little flamewar triggered multiple withdrawals, independent on the rate changes. We just need to keep going until the kill switch is flipped.

Chilling new deposits alone should bring the thing down, that's why it's essential we do not leave this thread here alone. I think we're pretty close to the limit. Heck, there are some large asks and sales on Gox today, could be the remainder of the active wallet on its way to Malaysia.
Why Malaysia?  Shocked

My BTC Tip Jar: 1Pgvfy19uwtYe5o9dg3zZsAjgCPt3XZqz9 , GPG ID: B3AAEEB0 ,OTC ID: johnthedong
Escrow service is available on a case by case basis! (PM Me to verify I'm the escrow!)

exahash
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 276



View Profile
July 03, 2012, 04:39:31 PM
 #1226

Chilling new deposits alone should bring the thing down, that's why it's essential we do not leave this thread here alone. I think we're pretty close to the limit.

Based on what?

copumpkin
Donator
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 266


I'm actually a pineapple


View Profile
July 03, 2012, 04:41:06 PM
 #1227

That doesn't help me if BTC is worth 50% of what it was before he defaulted.

Sure it does. Insure yourself for twice as much as you'd normally do Smiley
Vandroiy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1036


View Profile
July 03, 2012, 04:46:32 PM
 #1228

I think we're pretty close to the limit.
Based on what?

Well, there are few indicators of further growth in the scheme, the rule and rate change, and the reaction yesterday looked pretty erratic. When the flamewar broke loose, Pirateat40 quickly posted he'd be at DefCon or something, which I doubt he will. All of it looks like he has been preparing for shutdown since things went rough yesterday.

Sure, it depends on how many withdrawals we can trigger. One coin too little, it keeps going; one too many, it's over. We can just guess how close we are, but if I have to guess, we're close.
bitclown
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 186


View Profile
July 03, 2012, 04:47:20 PM
 #1229

People tried this before and it didn't really catch on much, but if you really think it's going to crash, go short on him.

Maged, if you want we could do some sort of insurance or bet on pirate defaulting.

It doesn't surprise me that Pirate's victims are so obsessed with gambling... Undecided
Philj
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 386



View Profile
July 03, 2012, 04:47:28 PM
 #1230

Please quote for me where he states he will continue this forever.  Its you lovely people that keep making this estimations about what will happen "if things keep going the way they are". 

I don't want to be a dick but Actually I could if I weren't typing  this on a Kindle. He says he imagines this can go on for a very long time(he sees no end in sight) in the thread where we can ask Pirate questions (a day in the life of ...).



He told me personally this could go on as long as bitcoin was healthy.

Pics or it didn't happen!

And what is healthy? Bitcoin was healthy when it was $0.00001 per BTC
Vandroiy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1036


View Profile
July 03, 2012, 04:58:59 PM
 #1231

Goat: betting on the default? Bring it on! But it's hard to find a trustworthy third party.

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=433 sounds like a possible option. I wouldn't trust the site with a lot, but it would be a start. Yet look at it, 10:1, with half a coin to win? Come on. Why didn't you start raising that already?

If you trust that I'm just wrong, but not a scammer, I might be able to arrange a bet on a similar time-scale with someone who can place more serious amounts. Smiley
hazek
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078


View Profile
July 03, 2012, 05:06:09 PM
 #1232

Chilling new deposits alone should bring the thing down, that's why it's essential we do not leave this thread here alone. I think we're pretty close to the limit.

Based on what?



Rates dropping, limits increasing, ect ect

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
copumpkin
Donator
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 266


I'm actually a pineapple


View Profile
July 03, 2012, 05:06:38 PM
 #1233

People tried this before and it didn't really catch on much, but if you really think it's going to crash, go short on him.

Maged, if you want we could do some sort of insurance or bet on pirate defaulting.

It doesn't surprise me that Pirate's victims are so obsessed with gambling... Undecided

What? It's the standard market response.
waltmarkers
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 104


View Profile
July 03, 2012, 05:10:51 PM
 #1234

so now does pirate's business model include buying bitcoins constantly? haven't found any answer yet around here... beginning at the lows last winter, did he perhaps even rescue Bitcoin singlefootedly?  Shocked
I pretty sure that the last thing the pirate does is buying bitcoins Smiley

He obviously lends them out to some other people at higher interests, without being nosy on where they get the bitcoins from.
Ot it's a ponzi...
Either of the two - feel free to choose your believes, I'm still not quite sure about mine Smiley


Isn't it clear what he does? He's said as much on other threads. People lend him bitcoins that he then sells for hard currency locally at a (significant) markup. Whoever buys those coins more than likely sends them to a third party, who converts them back to fiat (possibly another fiat).

Pirate moves his currency back into bitcoins. More than likely Pirate is never in fiat more than a day or two, leaving him minimally exposed to bitcoin / fiat pair volatility risk.

Pirate's customer has a steady need to send currency through bitcoins on a regular basis, for payment for some ongoing good or service. These customers are paying a significant premium for this service, likely 10% or more. That's why Pirate can afford to pay 7 points per week. As long as pirate's customers' business grows (or they move more bitcoins through him) he can afford to keep paying 7% indefinitely. It is likely that at some point he may have to close to new deposits (as he has done in the past).

Bitcoin is a easy way to move large amounts of currency without the use of banks or walking large amounts of cash through airports. Hell, it's better than diamonds or art. Sure is more liquid.

He's doing exactly what he says he does, arbitrage with a very short term loan (The loan is as fast as he can turn hard currency to bitcoin).

(If I've stepped a little too close to home, please let me know and I'll edit / delete my post.)

I reiterate my previous theory. As he moves more money his counter party demands a lower margin (but still insane for banking). BTC is not subject to AML/KYC for in person transactions like art, jewelry or annuities/life insurance. He could COMPLETELY LEGALLY take a suitcase full of cash, and give his customer bitcoins EVERY WEEK.  FYI 1,239,316.26 BTC were sent in the last 24 hours. That's $8 Million USD today!

He then can go to his bank, with said suitcase full of cash and deposit it. Most likely he has set up an LLC or some other business account. Sure, they'll flag it and ask him where he got it. He'll say I sell bitcoins. The bank will record that on the ticket and make the deposit.His buyer or buyers don't come in to it at all. They could be selling perfectly legal items or not, it doesn't matter. Because bitcoin is not a prepaid access under the FinCEN regulations and he is not a broker dealer according to FINRA he's AML exempt. This will go away when FinCEN and FINRA correct their regulations to include bitcoin.
Tomatocage
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526

brb keeping up with the Kardashians


View Profile
July 03, 2012, 05:12:03 PM
 #1235

Chilling new deposits alone should bring the thing down, that's why it's essential we do not leave this thread here alone. I think we're pretty close to the limit.

Based on what?



Rates dropping, limits increasing, ect ect

But a Ponzi has no limits.

THIS SPOT FOR RENT* | GPG ID: 4880D85C | 1% Escrow | 8% IPO/ICO Escrow services Temporarily Closed | Bitcointalk is the ONLY place where I use this name (No Skype/IRC/YIM/AIM/etc) | 13CsmTqGNwvFXb7tD9yFvJcEYCDTB8wQTS | Beware of these SCAM sites! | *Sponsored Link
Maged
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260


View Profile
July 03, 2012, 05:14:03 PM
 #1236

@ Maged,

Pirate taking the coin off the table will not make the price drop. People will have to buy more to replace it.
Now THAT'S something I'd bet against.

Most of the time, when bitcoins are stolen, the thief won't sell most of the bitcoins. However, what would happen if Pirate wanted to be different? Let me put it this way: Pirate currently has enough bitcoins to clear the entire MtGox orderbook that is currently visible.

copumpkin
Donator
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 266


I'm actually a pineapple


View Profile
July 03, 2012, 05:18:02 PM
 #1237

Pirate currently has enough bitcoins to clear the entire MtGox orderbook that is currently visible.

Can you define what you mean by the visible orderbook?
waltmarkers
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 104


View Profile
July 03, 2012, 05:20:51 PM
 #1238

There is another easy way to see what is going on...someone trace some coins they deposited with him a few months ago. If he's selling coins in person, they would have made one move from you to a known pirate wallet, then a consolidation, then a move to his customer's wallet, then his customer would be sending them to another counterparty. All coins would move at least twice in the week that you deposited them, likely in the first few days. Then, they might sit for a few weeks and move again.

Now, most of these addresses would likely only be used once...so, someone would have to spend some serious time on the block chain.

If GLBSE didn't mix coins, people in the pass throughs could look themselves.
copumpkin
Donator
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 266


I'm actually a pineapple


View Profile
July 03, 2012, 05:21:16 PM
 #1239

Pirate currently has enough bitcoins to clear the entire MtGox orderbook that is currently visible.

Can you define what you mean by the visible orderbook?

gox has a dark order book so the market is not scared when large trades happen. or this is the way it used to be done.

It doesn't do that anymore, and it'd take some serious effort (more coins than will ever exist) to clear the visible one:

Quote
[13:20:52] <gribble> There are currently 26449801 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 1328905.42752 USD in total.
copumpkin
Donator
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 266


I'm actually a pineapple


View Profile
July 03, 2012, 05:22:13 PM
 #1240

a known pirate wallet

wat.
Pages: « 1 ... 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 [62] 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!