Buy the DIP, and HODL!

[JayJuanGee]

For sure, there may well be hardly any advantage to DCA over extended periods of time, if a guy has a large lump sum amount in his possession, even though there may be some preference to invest it in gradual ways, such as $1,923 per week for 26 weeks, and even that might be a questionable tactic if it is unclear if the BTC price might be able to stay down for the next 26 weeks.  I doubt that plugging DCA into any situation is really going to resolve the issue, especially if there are questions about how to deal with a bunch of cash that is right in our bank right now.  If the scenario was different, such as having the $50k coming to us over an extended period, then we may want to invest all of the amount of the $50k as it comes in.. even though surely many of us would also need to attempt to account for other income and/or expenses that we have every month, so if the $50k is extra money coming in there might not necessarily be any value to spread out the investment into bitcoin, except maybe over a few weeks in the case of $10k coming in at one time or some kind of a situation like that.

After I thought more carefully and adjusted to your opinion, I found a more appropriate way to buy bitcoin if I have extra money or ready money of 50k dollars with a single purchase is better.

I am not even suggesting that there is any right answer, and you would not necessarily need to move from one extreme of spreading it out on a weekly basis for 7 years to the other extreme buying all of it right away.

One of the powers of having such a large sum is that it provides a lot more options to a person.. especially for someone who might otherwise have to save up for 7 years or more to accumulate that quantity of value in one place.

For sure, we likely realize that historically, there has been quite a bit of value that has come from frontloading into bitcoin, whenever we can, yet even frontloading has not always been the most optimal or the most profitable, even though DCA may well end up rising to the level of frontloading, especially if a DCA accumulator ends up employing a philosophy of investing as aggressively into bitcoin as he is able to accomplish without feeling that he is running too much risk of fucking things up, so such a guy might especially buy bitcoin at no matter what for quite a bit of time with whatever cashflow he has as it comes in, yet if he is usually accustomed to buying bitcoin with $100 to $150 per week, he might find himself with some additional considerations if he were to suddenly receive a lump sum that might be either many weeks of his usual DCA or it might even rise to the level of years of his DCA, so then he is left with a situation that is slightly different from his usual circumstances, and sure he could come to the conclusion just to throw the whole lump sum into bitcoin at whatever price might be happening at the  moment, and sure maybe that might end up being a reasonably good way of dealing with the dilemma rather than considering either DCA and/or buying on dips as ways to potentially defer some of his buying in ways that might be better ways of hedging. .especially if the amount is way higher than his usual amount.. and perhaps the size of his stash and his other personal factors might also affect how he might choose to deploy the extra funds that he suddenly finds within his discretion regarding how to deploy them.

I could be that at this particular time in BTC's cycle there might not be much advantage to either spreading out a lump sum through DCA or through buying on dips.  I will concede that.

There may be several factors that may be better used in a lump sum.

One of them is the cost savings for paying fees at the time of execution and also from that point of view DCA is not very appropriate for spreading the budget over a long period of time if we have funds early with a large amount.

If we have a lump sum amount available for us, we can choose our timeline for deploying that, and yeah we can divide that lump sum into various categories.

Let's take your $50k example, and let's just presume that we already have a guy that has been buying bitcoin fairly aggressively for 2-3 years at somewhere between $100 per week and $150 per week, so he has an average around $126 per week, so we could say to our selves that we already know that we likely are going to continue to have $100 to $150 coming in every week that we can DCA, so that amount does not need to directly impact our decision, except that we already know that we have an income.. .. yet maybe we still want to divide the $50k into a few categories. ... I am just giving these as examples to make them unequal amounts in order to suggest that you can do whatever you want, but you just come up with something that is tailored to your situation and is sufficient comfortable to you, even if it might seem a bit arbitrary or strange to others.  ..and yeah, as I already mentioned, right now there might not currently be much value to delay investing all or almost all of the $50k into BTC right now, if right now, we were suddenly to come across $50k.

Here is another scenario:

1) You decide that you are going to invest $20k right away, which to you means investing $4k every 2 days for the next 10 days...which will not affect your regular DCA of $126-ish per week.

once the 10 days are completed you are going to

2) invest $14k right over the following 21 days, meaning that you are going to invest $2k every 3 days for the next 21 days, which will not affect your regular DCA of $126-ish per week..

After the 31 days have passed,

3) With about $6k of the amount, you decide that you are going to largely triple your regular DCA to right around $400 per week for the next 26 weeks

that ONLY leaves you $10k remaining out of the $50k

4) you decide that you are going to set up 10 buy the dip orders starting from $100k down to $75k, which means that you would buy $1k of BTC every time that the BTC price drops an additional $2,500 starting at $100k.

Yes, I know that some of the deferred buys seem a bit retarded, so amounts could be adjusted to make them feel less retarded, especially for a person who may want to error on the side of investing most (if not all) of the hypothetical $50k sooner rather than later. One of the things about having some orders that might not fill is to know and/or accept that money would end up not getting invested if the BTC price does not drop, and so surely it could feel like too much non-working cash to have $10k (1/5 of the total amount) set aside  for buying on dips that might not happen... yet each person is going to come to differing conclusions, and maybe some people will consider that amount to be zero and others might be willing to set aside $5k (1/10 of the total amount) for buying on dips, but not $10k (1/5 of the total amount).  The weighing of the trade offs for the answers to these balancing questions are somewhat personalized, and sure maybe for some folks the answers are more obvious than others, and sometimes there might be needs to practice for a while in order to better be able to answer the questions in a way that is sufficiently comfortable.

I think that my main point is attempting to show some value in considering all three of the buying options, even if we still might be inclined to believe that BTC prices are currently postured for up, we might still see some value in structuring some of our buys over time rather than putting everything in at one time.. and we can still error on the side of front-loading, even if we are also holding some value back too.  Part of the value of getting a lump sum is having some benefits in considering options that might not have had otherwise been available.

That's what is interesting to conclude, when we have money we must have a good strategy and planning, input from your ideas will be very useful for many investors who want to take a stand in the choices they want to plan.

It is also true, if DCA for Discretionary income is certainly very good to plan in Bitcoin accumulation and very different from having a large budget at once. Buying at dips may be good if we already have btc or a satisfaction stage but I think new investors who want to invest in bitcoin always say dips are the best time regardless of whether they have done DCA or not.

To me, it seems that newer investors have to figure out ways to practice in their ways of allocating in order to figure out their own balances, and the balances do not really become very clear without a bit of ongoing practice, and surely the $50k at once scenario  is not very usual for someone who might usually be in the practice of DCA investing at $100 to $150 per week, yet there surely could be some scenarios where that person gets some smaller amount like $2k or $4k, and they are faced with a similar kind of dilemma, even though the lump sum amount is smaller... and surely any time that the guy gets extra income that extra income could be considered in terms of whether it could be added to the DCA over a period of time, or should there be an immediate buying or might there be some value to holding back some of the amounts for possible BTC price dips that may or may not end up happening.

Yeah, we know that generally newbies should be erroring in the side of just buying regularly and right away, yet if the longer the newbie is buying regular and right away, the more potential that his already accumulated stack size (and perhaps even his having has shored up his back up funds) may well end up affecting his ways of considering his options when he ends up coming across some extra funds from time to time.  The answer not necessarily obvious, and even someone who had been accumulating for a while might end up making mistakes with the lump sum, even though he had been practicing for a while and even though he was considering that he knew how to treat any additional funds that come in, yet when push comes to shove, there might be times in which, even an experienced DCA investor, may well need to reconsider both what he has been doing and how some new funds might be treated in order to bring more balance to his already existing situation.

In recent times, I had to make some tweaks to my own system.   I was attempting to help a friend in real life to set up some hardware wallets and also to adjust some of his own practices in regards to the kinds of coins that he was holding and also how he was preparing for his future, and after I was speaking with him I ended up reviewing some of my own set up and realizing that my set up was not even how I had remembered it to be, and I had made some mistakes in moving some funds around because I had assumed certain things about my own set up  that were not actually in place, and so largely the situation had been resolved, but not completely.. but at least I have a plan to resolve (and rebalance)  that might take a bit of time to get back into balance, yet I am not too worried about it, since it was not really any kind of major oversight, because I was able to adjust it before it ended up potentially playing out in a way that would have ended causing more difficulties for me at a later time...so part of the point is that any of us can have mistakes and oversights, yet hopefully our mistakes and oversights end up playing out as minor inconveniences rather than really affecting us in negative ways based on our own sloppiness.

Actually, it is very disturbing to the peace of mind, meaning if investor A has never bought bitcoin and is just waiting for the dips, isn't he always wasting time watching the chart every day? It seems more boring compared to long-term planning for 7 years with a determination of $50k to be spread over 7 years with a routine execution of $126 every week.

Of course, with me, you are preaching to the choir if you are asserting that it is better to get started rather than trying to strategize an entry point, especially in bitcoin.  I don't have any problem with the idea of preparing for both up and down, yet my own conclusion is that no one is prepared for UP if they either don't have any coins or they don't have enough coins, which is part of the justification to just keep buying BTC no matter what for at least a whole cycle before assessing if you are sufficiently prepared for UP.. unless you happened to have had front loaded your BTC investment, and there is no way to prepare for up by waiting.. waiters are ONLY preparing for down that may or may not end up happening.;.so yeah, both preparing for up and being sufficiently prepared for up tends to take a long time.  There might be circumstances in which a person lump summing into bitcoin would be sufficiently prepared for up, yet it seems to me that even those who lump sum into bitcoin would likely be better served by also supplementing their lump sum investment with various additional BTC purchases over time.. but yeah, it is difficult to overly generalized when a person has sufficiently prepared for up, since those end up largely being self-assessments regarding if a person has enough or better yet more than enough BTC in light of their own personal factors..

[edited out]

I think I get your point and I have been calculating this some time ago about traders and investors who will make more profit in a long period of time like 4-5 years or more and initially I thought traders will make more profit than investors not until I realized that a trader can not make profit or gain continuously in this interval of time in fact as a matter of fact some time dey incur more loss than profit in a week and sometimes they waste their strength and energy carrying out analysis that are not sure or certain and sometimes I see them as people who just earn and useless because once they make profit the next time is to use it to trade again which we know the possiblity of making it again is not known.

However, it is possible that a trader can make more profit than an investor in short period because our intention as an investor is not even to hold for a short period of time so we shouldn't even compare investor and trader for a short period of time and again any investor who is holding for a short period is not much different from a trader. But when you hold for a long period of time properly definitely it will show your wallet when the time comes.

We are supposed to be talking about investing in this thread, and I have some difficulties for you or anyone else to be considering the possibility that a person could invest into bitcoin for less than 4 years and still be considered as an investor rather than a trader.  So in that regard anyone trying to play bitcoin prices less than 4 years would have to be a trader rather than an investor, and the ONLY exception would be if such persons came into bitcoin with an intention of 4-10 years or longer then something came up with their health or some other life emergency kind of a situation that ended up causing them to get out of bitcoin in part or in total due to such unexpected circumstances.

Of course, if they are already old and knowing that they don't really have enough liquidity to be able to stay in bitcoin for at least 4 years, and if they still got into bitcoin they would be trading/gambling rather than investing, and even if they end up being correct and profitable in less than 4 years, that does not convert them into an investor merely because their trade/gamble played out in a successful way. .. They might even end up becoming so successful that they end up converting into an investor.  

Let's say that in late-2022, an elderly person has around $200k total net worth, and such elderly person has to draw down on that networth by $20k to $35k every year just to pay for various basics, and so they want to keep some reserves and not to be overly risky with the places that they have their money.  

Yet in late 2022, this person learned about bitcoin and gained confidence in bitcoin and decided to put right around $130k of the networth into bitcoin, and BTC prices were right around $18k, so the person bought right around 7.22 BTC  with the $130k, and so yeah, that was a very risky move since the person needed the money within a year or two, yet the trade/ gamble ended up paying off quite well, and perhaps the person continues cashing out from his bitcoin starting in early 2024, maybe there was an initial cashing out of 0.72 BTC ($43k), when the BTC price was around $60k and so then now, such person still might have right around 6.5 BTC even having had cashed out some of the BTC within the yearly budget of $20k to $35k, and that arrangement ended up starting out as a trade but converted into an investment.. because now the person realizes that he probably can continue to withdraw bitcoin on a regular basis and largely sustain his living standard off of his BTC.

I think that your mixing up of ideas of profits can largely contribute towards your wanting to trade rather than invest, which surely I would not recommend, yet guys have to figure out how they are going to end up getting into bitcoin and various other personally related goals that they have, since sometimes building up an initial BTC investment stash may well help to inform how to go forward, and I really doubt that trading is a good way to build up a BTC stash, and it is surely outside of the scope of this thread.

There also can be a bit of a fantasy for a trader to convert into an investor, even though sometimes traders do figure out ways to convert into investors, and so the situations of individuals tend to vary so much that it can be quite difficult to really figure out how they might balance out their income in terms of how much they should invest into bitcoin, and it can be quite tempting to try to play BTC prices in regards to waves, yet that still is not what we are talking about in this thread.

I am not proclaiming that rich people don't do DCA, and in fact I agree with you for the reasons that I already stated that there could be a lot of cashflow management reasons to employ DCA, yet if rich people get lump sum amounts coming available to them and they have already decided to invest into bitcoin, then they may well not be advantaged by spreading out their amount rather than front loading into BTC.   Sure, if we have had a lot of BTC price rise in recent times, there may end up being a mixed strategy to account for dips rather than buying all right away,  so there could be structures to buy dip and also DCA to spread out, yet they also may want to buy some right away just in case a dip does not happen... and surely other particulars regarding the extent to which they have other BTC or if they have other investments and perhaps other personal factors would help them to figure out how they might want to tailor their entrance into bitcoin, the extent to which they might front load and invest right away or to defer by buying dips and/or DCA.

DCA (Dollar Cost Averaging) is one of the most effective strategies for investing, so this effective strategy is used by everyone from wealthy investors to those with relatively little money. It is different for those who don't know about DCA investment till now but those who know about DCA investment strategy should definitely invest in DCA strategy instead of investing in other strategies.

The difference between a rich investor and a middle class investor is that the rich investor gets investment opportunities with large amount of money regularly but the middle class investor doesn't get that much investment opportunity but they do it consistently.

Earlier usually investors used to invest in different strategies such as they first confirmed the amount of money they would invest and after confirming they pooled the money first. When they accumulated a large amount of money, they would use that money to buy bitcoins at a certain price in the market and they would wait for a positive change in this price and when they would get a profit. However, the biggest disadvantage of this earlier investment strategy was that investors could not consistently invest in this method, which resulted in many investment opportunities being missed. But when the DCA investment strategy became known to everyone, gradually everyone came to know about this investment strategy and understood its performance. Now investors don't focus on pooling all the money, they buy bitcoins with the amount that comes to them, thus gradually they maintain the consistency of investment and move forward.

How this investment is effective I am telling here, there is always volatility in the Bitcoin market so the market sometimes goes down and sometimes goes up. 

Suppose an investor buys bitcoin four times in a month but it can be seen that within this one month the market of bitcoin will change significantly whether it is a positive change or a negative change. As a result, investors will have the opportunity to buy bitcoins during these few changes in price, thereby reducing the risk of their money and increasing the potential for profit. That is why DCA investment strategy is considered as an effective investment strategy and is generally used by both wealthy and ordinary investors.

I am not sure if I agree with all of your characterizations or description of history, even though some folks might  have been learning that it is better to invest in bitcoin rather than trying to trade it, and DCA happens to be a pretty decent way for each person to adjust his weekly investment amount in accordance with his budget and how aggressive that he would like to be in terms of ongoingly accumulating bitcoin.

Not everyone is going to get smarter merely because they are buying bitcoin every week, and so there can be some advantage to trying to learn more about bitcoin as we are building our BTC portfolio on a weekly basis, and I suppose that investing into bitcoin every week can motivate people to learn about bitcoin, since they are investing into it regularly... yet it can also take time to learn about bitcoin too, and people sometimes are not even sure how to deal with their BTC going up a lot in value, so even if we try to prepare in theory, it still can be difficult to see that level of profits in our bitcoin holdings, which also can end up contributing to some folks selling too much bitcoin too soon, and I am not even sure how to help people to save themselves from themselves, yet DCA can sometimes help to just figure out a position size and then also potentially create some good cash management practices or even projecting out various BTC price scenarios  so that when outrageous scenarios end up happening, there had already been some preparation, since the preparation could prepared for base case as compared with worse case and best case scenarios.. and by the way, even preparation might not help people in terms of not selling too much too soon and those kinds of common mistakes.

Investing short-term means exposing yourself to more risk, because you will never achieve success from this investment and never reach your goals. Even if you buy a little bit of Bitcoin, if the investment is for a long time, the portfolio will be much bigger. An Austrian Bitcoiner says that investing in Bitcoin for a long time i.e. 10 years using the DCA method will change your life i.e. Bitcoin will change your life.

Although there are traders who are actually successful in trading short-term with or without leverage, it's not for PLEBS like US. I discourage fellow plebs from "trading", but if you truly believe that you could profit as a day-trader, then to measure your success rate, make a pretend purchase in Bitcoin with 100% of your trading capital. Check if you outperformed Bitcoin every year. Because if you didn't, then you merely wasted your time and probably shortened your life-span from the mental stress and loss of sleep.

The human mind is wired to be curious, so the moment you mentioned that there are traders who are actually successful trading short term, there are people here whose curiosity would have been aroused and they will start searching for the answers of how those supposed successful traders did it. You know where such search will lead them to and what the outcome would be and I need not tell you that they will abandon this idea of buy the dip and HODL to start experimenting with trading until they are frustrated and possible leave Bitcoin or realize that long term is the real way to peace of mind and safety of their investment. This is the reason I try to block any trading idea from sitting well in my heart to avoid this temptation and it is good we use every opportunity we have to encourage people to think long term.

You might be correct that the solution is just to force yourself into the idea of not selling any bitcoin and keep buying no matter what.. .and then maybe after a whole cycle or two, the situation might start to become more clear.. And even with you, Moreno233, by your forum registration date, you will be coming on a full cycle in August, so some of us might really come to figure out where we are at, and sometimes by the times we start to get to having had been in bitcoin for a whole cycle, we might already start to realize that we need more than a whole cycle and that we may well need a couple of cycles before we start to consider that we might be able to change our ongoing BTC accumulation strategies.

Although there are traders who are actually successful in trading short-term with or without leverage, it's not for PLEBS like US. I discourage fellow plebs from "trading", but if you truly believe that you could profit as a day-trader, then to measure your success rate, make a pretend purchase in Bitcoin with 100% of your trading capital. Check if you outperformed Bitcoin every year. Because if you didn't, then you merely wasted your time and probably shortened your life-span from the mental stress and loss of sleep.

I agree that trading which tends to be short term is not suitable for everyone - that's why some say that "10% of traders are successful" and that's the truth, because I've been in trading and I can say that it's riskier, more stressful, and you will lose sleep because you need to monitor the market and see if your position is right.

So it's more advisable to get involved in bitcoin investment which is more potentially profitable and recommended, especially for beginners, because everyone can get involved in Bitcoin investment, you don't need to learn technical analysis or whatever, all you need is to allocate your discretionary income and invest with DCA or lump sum. You can invest regularly and hold it for the long term. It's that simple - you don't need to sacrifice your precious sleep time just to monitor the market.

I doubt that profitable traders are even close to 10%, especially in something like bitcoin and especially if we might compare performance to traders versus investors into bitcoin.

 I am considering that probably less than 1% of traders of BTC would have had been able to beat a straight forwards DCA strategy, especially if we were to be looking at 8-10 years or more.  They fuck around and talk about profits, and yeah in the short term they might have some lovely stories, but carry out their strategy in the long term and it would be a pretty rare trader who actually were able to beat a straight forward BTC DCA approach. .and whatever system they used ended up being luck rather than replicable..  They frequently talk a BIG game, though.

[Wind_FURY]

Although there are traders who are actually successful in trading short-term with or without leverage, it's not for PLEBS like US. I discourage fellow plebs from "trading", but if you truly believe that you could profit as a day-trader, then to measure your success rate, make a pretend purchase in Bitcoin with 100% of your trading capital. Check if you outperformed Bitcoin every year. Because if you didn't, then you merely wasted your time and probably shortened your life-span from the mental stress and loss of sleep.

I agree that trading which tends to be short term is not suitable for everyone - that's why some say that "10% of traders are successful" and that's the truth, because I've been in trading and I can say that it's riskier, more stressful, and you will lose sleep because you need to monitor the market and see if your position is right.

So it's more advisable to get involved in bitcoin investment which is more potentially profitable and recommended, especially for beginners, because everyone can get involved in Bitcoin investment, you don't need to learn technical analysis or whatever, all you need is to allocate your discretionary income and invest with DCA or lump sum. You can invest regularly and hold it for the long term. It's that simple - you don't need to sacrifice your precious sleep time just to monitor the market.

I doubt that profitable traders are even close to 10%, especially in something like bitcoin and especially if we might compare performance to traders versus investors into bitcoin.

 I am considering that probably less than 1% of traders of BTC would have had been able to beat a straight forwards DCA strategy, especially if we were to be looking at 8-10 years or more.  They fuck around and talk about profits, and yeah in the short term they might have some lovely stories, but carry out their strategy in the long term and it would be a pretty rare trader who actually were able to beat a straight forward BTC DCA approach. .and whatever system they used ended up being luck rather than replicable..  They frequently talk a BIG game, though.

10% is a more generalized estimate from what I have read from doing simple searches on the internet. But if it's actually a mere 1% or less, then that would truly be very surprising and makes the HODLers' debate more practical, and that would STILL be a very BIG understatement.

Those who truly outperform Bitcoin consistently every year, perhaps they probably also short sell Bitcoin during the bearish cycle?

Plus for HODLers, we also probably should learn short selling to use as a hedge against our own Bitcoin investments during bear markets?

[JayJuanGee]

Although there are traders who are actually successful in trading short-term with or without leverage, it's not for PLEBS like US. I discourage fellow plebs from "trading", but if you truly believe that you could profit as a day-trader, then to measure your success rate, make a pretend purchase in Bitcoin with 100% of your trading capital. Check if you outperformed Bitcoin every year. Because if you didn't, then you merely wasted your time and probably shortened your life-span from the mental stress and loss of sleep.

I agree that trading which tends to be short term is not suitable for everyone - that's why some say that "10% of traders are successful" and that's the truth, because I've been in trading and I can say that it's riskier, more stressful, and you will lose sleep because you need to monitor the market and see if your position is right.

So it's more advisable to get involved in bitcoin investment which is more potentially profitable and recommended, especially for beginners, because everyone can get involved in Bitcoin investment, you don't need to learn technical analysis or whatever, all you need is to allocate your discretionary income and invest with DCA or lump sum. You can invest regularly and hold it for the long term. It's that simple - you don't need to sacrifice your precious sleep time just to monitor the market.

I doubt that profitable traders are even close to 10%, especially in something like bitcoin and especially if we might compare performance to traders versus investors into bitcoin.

 I am considering that probably less than 1% of traders of BTC would have had been able to beat a straight forwards DCA strategy, especially if we were to be looking at 8-10 years or more.  They fuck around and talk about profits, and yeah in the short term they might have some lovely stories, but carry out their strategy in the long term and it would be a pretty rare trader who actually were able to beat a straight forward BTC DCA approach. .and whatever system they used ended up being luck rather than replicable..  They frequently talk a BIG game, though.

10% is a more generalized estimate from what I have read from doing simple searches on the internet. But if it's actually a mere 1% or less, then that would truly be very surprising and makes the HODLers' debate more practical, and that would STILL be a very BIG understatement.

Those who truly outperform Bitcoin consistently every year, perhaps they probably also short sell Bitcoin during the bearish cycle?

Plus for HODLers, we also probably should learn short selling to use as a hedge against our own Bitcoin investments during bear markets?

Yes, a lot of folks fantasize about how they could get rich quicker than everybody else, yet with bitcoin even though the bearmarkets can seem torturous, it still has not been necessary to fuck around trying to trade, since you can get astronomically rich by merely having had invested steadily.

Let's take the person who had invested $100 per week into bitcoin for the past 11.5 years.  He would have invested $61.3k and accumulated 70 BTC.  Do you need more bitcoin than that?  Do you need more profits than that, even if you believe some of the traders could have had done better, I doubt it.. they lie about their results. .that is how gamblers are.

Maybe you prefer to ONLY go back 10 years, and such person would have invested $52.6k and  accumulated 35.11, so of course, the shorter the period of time then the lower the quantity of BTC accumulated.

You are not going to know if your bitcoin is going to perform greatly merely from one or two cycles, and also if you had not been persistent, consistent, regular and perhaps whiimpy then you are also going to have had less superior results, and you likely need more time for the investment to compound upon itself. 

The guy who had only been investing $100 for the past 8 years would have invested about $42k, yet would have ONLY accumulated about 5 BTC.  Still good results, but still likely needing more time for the continued building of the investment or for further time to run for additional compounding to take place, and yeah, the future is also not guaranteed, so each of us can ONLY do our best in terms of how aggressive we are going to be or how consistent, persistent and regular in our BTC accumulation, and hopefully not fucking around too much waiting rather than investing with as much aggressiveness as we are able to achieve without recking ourselves.

[Barikui1]

The guy who had only been investing $100 for the past 8 years would have invested about $42k, yet would have ONLY accumulated about 5 BTC.  Still good results, but still likely needing more time for the continued building of the investment or for further time to run for additional compounding to take place, and yeah, the future is also not guaranteed, so each of us can ONLY do our best in terms of how aggressive we are going to be or how consistent, persistent and regular in our BTC accumulation, and hopefully not fucking around too much waiting rather than investing with as much aggressiveness as we are able to achieve without recking ourselves.

You are 100% right about this and I also share the same sentiment as you sir, because one thing I have come to understand is that in as much as we are want to increase our stash of Bitcoin desperately, it is very important not to invest more than your capabilities, like investing what is going to give you some troubles in financing most of your daily needs, so cutting your coat according to your size financially is very important as a Bitcoin investor, because buying and accumulating Bitcoin is one thing and holding without tempering with it in the future is another thing altogether which will determine how profitable and successful you might be in the future, so it's very true that as we are accumulating Bitcoin, we should try all our possible best not to wreck ourselves in the process as most traders normally does, thinking that they can outsmart the market.

[Wind_FURY]

Although there are traders who are actually successful in trading short-term with or without leverage, it's not for PLEBS like US. I discourage fellow plebs from "trading", but if you truly believe that you could profit as a day-trader, then to measure your success rate, make a pretend purchase in Bitcoin with 100% of your trading capital. Check if you outperformed Bitcoin every year. Because if you didn't, then you merely wasted your time and probably shortened your life-span from the mental stress and loss of sleep.

I agree that trading which tends to be short term is not suitable for everyone - that's why some say that "10% of traders are successful" and that's the truth, because I've been in trading and I can say that it's riskier, more stressful, and you will lose sleep because you need to monitor the market and see if your position is right.

So it's more advisable to get involved in bitcoin investment which is more potentially profitable and recommended, especially for beginners, because everyone can get involved in Bitcoin investment, you don't need to learn technical analysis or whatever, all you need is to allocate your discretionary income and invest with DCA or lump sum. You can invest regularly and hold it for the long term. It's that simple - you don't need to sacrifice your precious sleep time just to monitor the market.

I doubt that profitable traders are even close to 10%, especially in something like bitcoin and especially if we might compare performance to traders versus investors into bitcoin.

 I am considering that probably less than 1% of traders of BTC would have had been able to beat a straight forwards DCA strategy, especially if we were to be looking at 8-10 years or more.  They fuck around and talk about profits, and yeah in the short term they might have some lovely stories, but carry out their strategy in the long term and it would be a pretty rare trader who actually were able to beat a straight forward BTC DCA approach. .and whatever system they used ended up being luck rather than replicable..  They frequently talk a BIG game, though.

10% is a more generalized estimate from what I have read from doing simple searches on the internet. But if it's actually a mere 1% or less, then that would truly be very surprising and makes the HODLers' debate more practical, and that would STILL be a very BIG understatement.

Those who truly outperform Bitcoin consistently every year, perhaps they probably also short sell Bitcoin during the bearish cycle?

Plus for HODLers, we also probably should learn short selling to use as a hedge against our own Bitcoin investments during bear markets?

Yes, a lot of folks fantasize about how they could get rich quicker than everybody else, yet with bitcoin even though the bearmarkets can seem torturous, it still has not been necessary to fuck around trying to trade, since you can get astronomically rich by merely having had invested steadily.

Let's take the person who had invested $100 per week into bitcoin for the past 11.5 years.  He would have invested $61.3k and accumulated 70 BTC.  Do you need more bitcoin than that?  Do you need more profits than that, even if you believe some of the traders could have had done better, I doubt it.. they lie about their results. .that is how gamblers are.

Maybe you prefer to ONLY go back 10 years, and such person would have invested $52.6k and  accumulated 35.11, so of course, the shorter the period of time then the lower the quantity of BTC accumulated.

You are not going to know if your bitcoin is going to perform greatly merely from one or two cycles, and also if you had not been persistent, consistent, regular and perhaps whiimpy then you are also going to have had less superior results, and you likely need more time for the investment to compound upon itself. 

The guy who had only been investing $100 for the past 8 years would have invested about $42k, yet would have ONLY accumulated about 5 BTC.  Still good results, but still likely needing more time for the continued building of the investment or for further time to run for additional compounding to take place, and yeah, the future is also not guaranteed, so each of us can ONLY do our best in terms of how aggressive we are going to be or how consistent, persistent and regular in our BTC accumulation, and hopefully not fucking around too much waiting rather than investing with as much aggressiveness as we are able to achieve without recking ourselves.

  👍

Those are very good points ser.

Plus for those newbies/normies who recently started their Bitcoin journey, not at two digits, three digits, four digits, BUT five digits, they could make an argument that they're ROI would be much larger if they buy and HODL an altcoin - OK, they could have those profits like if they bought Bitcoin at three digits, BUT long term, their profits would STILL have to be held in the hardest money on Earth, Bitcoin.

Newbies, HODLing your wealth in an altcoin/shitcoin simply is NOT worth that RISK. Buy a Hardware Wallet, or set up an offline computer, then HODL your precious Bitcoins in COLD STORAGE.

[BitBakerr1]

Bitcoin is not a get rich quick scheme. You must wait a long time to succeed from Bitcoin. If you ask Bitcoin to give you quick profits like Altcoins, then you will be wrong. Because Altcoins are like gambling. It is absolutely impossible to say when it will happen. You may win from Altcoins at some point but your money is at risk. Here the chances of losing your money are higher. In the long run, it may not give you a big benefit or you may lose everything.

It is true that Bitcoin is not a get rich quick scheme but Bitcoin investment will guarantee you maximum success if you can be patient for long time. I never want to compare alt coins with bitcoin or make any comments about those coins. And the question to you is how many people have you seen who have succeeded in investing in alt coins. Bitcoin's price drops, but it quickly rises again. Ask those who are experienced and knowledgeable about investing and they will always tell you to prioritize Bitcoin as your investment. Bitcoin investment requires patience and consistency because if you have patience then you will be able to hold your investment long term and if you have consistency in investment you will be able to buy bitcoins regularly.

You are right, however I want to make a point here, when some newbies come across investing in Bitcoin in this thread they really don't understand that you people are talking about long term Bitcoin investment and not Bitcoin trading and they get confuse on the particular strategy to use in investing in Bitcoin, as long as I'm concern when it comes to bitcoin investment going for a Long term holding is more better and less risky, I know some newbies here where introduce into Bitcoin through the strategy of trading Bitcoin, I'm not saying trading Bitcoin is not profitable but is risky and should be done with just 1 percent of your discretionary income if you most trade and then you can use the remaining part of your discretionary income to invest in long term, another reason why I think long term Bitcoin investment is better than trading is that, since Bitcoin is $100k and let say you started accumulating with $100k weekly or monthly for 10 to 20 years and eventually now bitcoin hits $1 million in price do you think someone who has been trading for 30 years will be more successful in the Bitcoin investment journey knowing fully well that some times the trader was losing money too, so long term Bitcoin investment is the best and newbies should take note.

[fredericktaylor]

Bitcoin is not a get rich quick scheme. You must wait a long time to succeed from Bitcoin. If you ask Bitcoin to give you quick profits like Altcoins, then you will be wrong. Because Altcoins are like gambling. It is absolutely impossible to say when it will happen. You may win from Altcoins at some point but your money is at risk. Here the chances of losing your money are higher. In the long run, it may not give you a big benefit or you may lose everything.

It is true that Bitcoin is not a get rich quick scheme but Bitcoin investment will guarantee you maximum success if you can be patient for long time. I never want to compare alt coins with bitcoin or make any comments about those coins. And the question to you is how many people have you seen who have succeeded in investing in alt coins. Bitcoin's price drops, but it quickly rises again. Ask those who are experienced and knowledgeable about investing and they will always tell you to prioritize Bitcoin as your investment. Bitcoin investment requires patience and consistency because if you have patience then you will be able to hold your investment long term and if you have consistency in investment you will be able to buy bitcoins regularly.

You are right, however I want to make a point here, when some newbies come across investing in Bitcoin in this thread they really don't understand that you people are talking about long term Bitcoin investment and not Bitcoin trading and they get confuse on the particular strategy to use in investing in Bitcoin, as long as I'm concern when it comes to bitcoin investment going for a Long term holding is more better and less risky, I know some newbies here where introduce into Bitcoin through the strategy of trading Bitcoin, I'm not saying trading Bitcoin is not profitable but is risky and should be done with just 1 percent of your discretionary income if you most trade and then you can use the remaining part of your discretionary income to invest in long term, another reason why I think long term Bitcoin investment is better than trading is that, since Bitcoin is $100k and let say you started accumulating with $100k weekly or monthly for 10 to 20 years and eventually now bitcoin hits $1 million in price do you think someone who has been trading for 30 years will be more successful in the Bitcoin investment journey knowing fully well that some times the trader was losing money too, so long term Bitcoin investment is the best and newbies should take note.

Trading in Bitcoin and gambling are the same because it is impossible to tell when you will make a profit by trading or gambling.

You may win from trading at times but your money is at risk.
Because trading makes people gain temporarily and not for future.

In my opinion, why risk your hard earned money by trading.  Invest in Bitcoin, but for the long term.
Before investing for long term you must adopt certain strategies.

A portion of your earnings should be kept aside, for a long time as financial difficulties may arise temporarily.
You will no doubt invest in Bitcoin, but only for the long term. So Bitcoin long term investment will guarantee you maximum success.

[Samlucky O]

For sure, there may well be hardly any advantage to DCA over extended periods of time, if a guy has a large lump sum amount in his possession, even though there may be some preference to invest it in gradual ways, such as $1,923 per week for 26 weeks, and even that might be a questionable tactic if it is unclear if the BTC price might be able to stay down for the next 26 weeks.  I doubt that plugging DCA into any situation is really going to resolve the issue, especially if there are questions about how to deal with a bunch of cash that is right in our bank right now.  If the scenario was different, such as having the $50k coming to us over an extended period, then we may want to invest all of the amount of the $50k as it comes in.. even though surely many of us would also need to attempt to account for other income and/or expenses that we have every month, so if the $50k is extra money coming in there might not necessarily be any value to spread out the investment into bitcoin, except maybe over a few weeks in the case of $10k coming in at one time or some kind of a situation like that.

In terms of investment, there are two issues: limitations and possibilities of the DCA method and the one-time investment method. Just as the DCA method has advantages, the one-time investment method also has advantages. Generally, one-time investments are large amounts. Let's say a person invests 60,000 taka as a one-time investment, if the price of Bitcoin is 30,000 to 40,000, then the total profit of that person is higher. On the other hand, if the DCA method is invested, the impact of market fluctuations is less. Let's say a person invests 10,000 dollars in the first month, and the price of BTC is 25,000 dollars per unit, then he owns 0.40 BTC. Again, if he invests 10,000 dollars in the next month, and the price of BTC is 23,000 dollars per unit, then he will own 0.434 BTC. Thus, if he invests 10,000 dollars in the next month, and the price of BTC is 24,000 dollars per unit, then he will own 0.417 dollars. Then his total investment in three months is 30,000 and he has received a total of 1.251 BTC. So I think if a person does not want to analyze the market and wants peace of mind with low risk, then he should follow the DCA method, and if someone wants to make quick profits, then he should give more priority to one-time investments.

i find it difficult to grasp your explanation properly base on your way of narration and or description, but i think you are emphasising more on  lump sum investment than DCA which you describe as "One-time investment" to be a good investment strategy over the DCA in the sense that sometimes you buy high and buy low sometimes, making the profit to varies. but what i. and it is also important to note that lump sum is good but that doesnt mean DCA is not good. as a matter of fact both are good, but don't let your likeness for one over the other makes you see the other as not relevant. both strategy are good investment strategy if used properly.

[MusaPk]

Good explanation, it is a precise calculation and does not deviate at all. I agree with you that lump sum is a strategy for those who have extra money or in large amounts so that investors can act with a single purchase with the amount of money they have.

DCA is suitable for the long term with net income after adjustments to living expenses or discretionary income. So the steps taken by investors with the DCA strategy will take a long time, either 5 years or 10 years.

But from what has been explained with detailed calculations, of course large money is better to use the Lump sum strategy, in addition to saving purchase fees, Lump sum also saves time but the determination of the execution price will fall at one price only.

However, with DCA we may spend a lot of fees on each purchase, but our entry will not be fixed at one price because the purchase spread lasts for a long time.

The benefits are not much different, but that is a good difference and may be a good choice to apply along with following up on purchases for the next 10 years.

We read everywhere on Bitcointalk that DCA is best way to invest in Bitcoin. To understand exactly what DCA is and how it benefits us, we have to put some effort by calculating results of DCA on previous Bitcoin prices. There are different tools which can help you in calculating results of DCA, three of them are:

https://dcabtc.com/     

https://costavg.com/   

https://dcacryptocalculator.com/     

We can cross check results of DCA on these three sites listed above. With DCA we can go bullish in buying Bitcoin when we have extra cash or if we see that price has taken dip. One thing is also very clear that whether we go for Lump Sum or DCA, it must be for long term i.e. for 5 years or more.

[Btcdeybodi]

Newbies, HODLing your wealth in an altcoin/shitcoin simply is NOT worth that RISK.

Good advice to newbies because most of them feels that there are shitcoins that are more volatile than bitcoins and tends to invest on them for short term gains but it will be stupid for a newbie to take because of short terms gains and risks their money on some fucking worthless shitcoins that can dump drastically within the shortest period of time and they lose their money. Often times, newbies are advised not to invest in shitcoins but some of them pay deaf ears and after they must have learnt their lessons, they come about seeking for the best investment advice. Newbies should learn to say NO to shitcoins and embrace long term HODLing in bitcoins.
 

[Dump3er]

I doubt that profitable traders are even close to 10%, especially in something like bitcoin and especially if we might compare performance to traders versus investors into bitcoin.

 I am considering that probably less than 1% of traders of BTC would have had been able to beat a straight forwards DCA strategy, especially if we were to be looking at 8-10 years or more.  They fuck around and talk about profits, and yeah in the short term they might have some lovely stories, but carry out their strategy in the long term and it would be a pretty rare trader who actually were able to beat a straight forward BTC DCA approach. .and whatever system they used ended up being luck rather than replicable..  They frequently talk a BIG game, though.

10% is a more generalized estimate from what I have read from doing simple searches on the internet. But if it's actually a mere 1% or less, then that would truly be very surprising and makes the HODLers' debate more practical, and that would STILL be a very BIG understatement.

Those who truly outperform Bitcoin consistently every year, perhaps they probably also short sell Bitcoin during the bearish cycle?

Plus for HODLers, we also probably should learn short selling to use as a hedge against our own Bitcoin investments during bear markets?

Yes, a lot of folks fantasize about how they could get rich quicker than everybody else, yet with bitcoin even though the bearmarkets can seem torturous, it still has not been necessary to fuck around trying to trade, since you can get astronomically rich by merely having had invested steadily.

Let's take the person who had invested $100 per week into bitcoin for the past 11.5 years.  He would have invested $61.3k and accumulated 70 BTC.  Do you need more bitcoin than that?  Do you need more profits than that, even if you believe some of the traders could have had done better, I doubt it.. they lie about their results. .that is how gamblers are.

Maybe you prefer to ONLY go back 10 years, and such person would have invested $52.6k and  accumulated 35.11, so of course, the shorter the period of time then the lower the quantity of BTC accumulated.

You are not going to know if your bitcoin is going to perform greatly merely from one or two cycles, and also if you had not been persistent, consistent, regular and perhaps whiimpy then you are also going to have had less superior results, and you likely need more time for the investment to compound upon itself.  

The guy who had only been investing $100 for the past 8 years would have invested about $42k, yet would have ONLY accumulated about 5 BTC.  Still good results, but still likely needing more time for the continued building of the investment or for further time to run for additional compounding to take place, and yeah, the future is also not guaranteed, so each of us can ONLY do our best in terms of how aggressive we are going to be or how consistent, persistent and regular in our BTC accumulation, and hopefully not fucking around too much waiting rather than investing with as much aggressiveness as we are able to achieve without recking ourselves.

Those who truly outperform Bitcoin consistently every year, perhaps they probably also short sell Bitcoin during the bearish cycle?

If the discussion about those hyperactive, serious and educated and educated traders, then I would say yes they use shorts as well. But this doesn't protect them from the tails of probability distributions. So many professionals got crushed short selling bitcoin. The term short squeeze comes from somewhere because there is one guy who is bigger than the other and just takes him off the chess board like a pawn. Trading can be treacherous because in times of low volatility when bitcoin is going steadily sideways with small ups and downs, everyone thinks they are a master at trading because it is a question of time when the threshold is reached again that your trade is in profit and you can realize a gain. But these movements don't go on forever and if there is any asset that can brutally test the tails of risk distributions, then it is bitcoin. It can go for a moonshot, and it can drop like a rock and those who claim they know or can predict when these events are happening, I doubt it.

When there are 10,000 traders, of course some of them get a short position right and then it pays off big time when they just opened it and bitcoin is about to crash 50%. Those are the guys who post on Twitter how genius they are.

I rather underscore what JJG has said here or what he has demonstrated with his examples. I doubt that more than 1% of traders outperformed the numbers provided. Most of those examples are around 10,000% profit. Come on, what is a trader supposed to do to reach those levels? Consistency in bitcoin has beaten everyone trying to time the market or trade frequently. Taking outliers as counter examples to DCA makes no sense because people are interested in the discussion whether trading in general put people ahead of HODLers who DCA. And that is an uncompromising no.

In DCA, of course depending on where you are on your accumulation timeline, but in general every movement the market makes is good for the HODLer. This is not the same for the trader unless they play around with shorts. But the trader loses bitcoin trading. The HODLer adds bitcoin constantly, sometimes less, sometimes more depending on the price. The bitcoin stash of the HODLer DCAing will grow no matter what. The trader's stash shrinks with every mistake they make.

As always in life, you got this one lucky dude who for reasons unknown to themselves makes the right call at the right time 10 times in a row. Then they write a book about it, 100,000 people buy the book and try to copy the "strategy" only to find out it doesn't work because it is no strategy.

[JayJuanGee]

The guy who had only been investing $100 for the past 8 years would have invested about $42k, yet would have ONLY accumulated about 5 BTC.  Still good results, but still likely needing more time for the continued building of the investment or for further time to run for additional compounding to take place, and yeah, the future is also not guaranteed, so each of us can ONLY do our best in terms of how aggressive we are going to be or how consistent, persistent and regular in our BTC accumulation, and hopefully not fucking around too much waiting rather than investing with as much aggressiveness as we are able to achieve without recking ourselves.

You are 100% right about this and I also share the same sentiment as you sir, because one thing I have come to understand is that in as much as we are want to increase our stash of Bitcoin desperately, it is very important not to invest more than your capabilities, like investing what is going to give you some troubles in financing most of your daily needs, so cutting your coat according to your size financially is very important as a Bitcoin investor, because buying and accumulating Bitcoin is one thing and holding without tempering with it in the future is another thing altogether which will determine how profitable and successful you might be in the future, so it's very true that as we are accumulating Bitcoin, we should try all our possible best not to wreck ourselves in the process as most traders normally does, thinking that they can outsmart the market.

It is not necessarily going to be easy making it through one or two whole bitcoin cycles, continue to accumulate bitcoin and not get distracted by various diversions along the way, including making sure that we are holding a sufficient percentage of our BTC privately so that we don't end up getting rug pulled by some exchange (or other 3rd party).

Although there are traders who are actually successful in trading short-term with or without leverage, it's not for PLEBS like US. I discourage fellow plebs from "trading", but if you truly believe that you could profit as a day-trader, then to measure your success rate, make a pretend purchase in Bitcoin with 100% of your trading capital. Check if you outperformed Bitcoin every year. Because if you didn't, then you merely wasted your time and probably shortened your life-span from the mental stress and loss of sleep.

I agree that trading which tends to be short term is not suitable for everyone - that's why some say that "10% of traders are successful" and that's the truth, because I've been in trading and I can say that it's riskier, more stressful, and you will lose sleep because you need to monitor the market and see if your position is right.

So it's more advisable to get involved in bitcoin investment which is more potentially profitable and recommended, especially for beginners, because everyone can get involved in Bitcoin investment, you don't need to learn technical analysis or whatever, all you need is to allocate your discretionary income and invest with DCA or lump sum. You can invest regularly and hold it for the long term. It's that simple - you don't need to sacrifice your precious sleep time just to monitor the market.

I doubt that profitable traders are even close to 10%, especially in something like bitcoin and especially if we might compare performance to traders versus investors into bitcoin.

 I am considering that probably less than 1% of traders of BTC would have had been able to beat a straight forwards DCA strategy, especially if we were to be looking at 8-10 years or more.  They fuck around and talk about profits, and yeah in the short term they might have some lovely stories, but carry out their strategy in the long term and it would be a pretty rare trader who actually were able to beat a straight forward BTC DCA approach. .and whatever system they used ended up being luck rather than replicable..  They frequently talk a BIG game, though.

10% is a more generalized estimate from what I have read from doing simple searches on the internet. But if it's actually a mere 1% or less, then that would truly be very surprising and makes the HODLers' debate more practical, and that would STILL be a very BIG understatement.

Those who truly outperform Bitcoin consistently every year, perhaps they probably also short sell Bitcoin during the bearish cycle?

Plus for HODLers, we also probably should learn short selling to use as a hedge against our own Bitcoin investments during bear markets?

Yes, a lot of folks fantasize about how they could get rich quicker than everybody else, yet with bitcoin even though the bearmarkets can seem torturous, it still has not been necessary to fuck around trying to trade, since you can get astronomically rich by merely having had invested steadily.

Let's take the person who had invested $100 per week into bitcoin for the past 11.5 years.  He would have invested $61.3k and accumulated 70 BTC.  Do you need more bitcoin than that?  Do you need more profits than that, even if you believe some of the traders could have had done better, I doubt it.. they lie about their results. .that is how gamblers are.

Maybe you prefer to ONLY go back 10 years, and such person would have invested $52.6k and  accumulated 35.11, so of course, the shorter the period of time then the lower the quantity of BTC accumulated.

You are not going to know if your bitcoin is going to perform greatly merely from one or two cycles, and also if you had not been persistent, consistent, regular and perhaps whiimpy then you are also going to have had less superior results, and you likely need more time for the investment to compound upon itself. 

The guy who had only been investing $100 for the past 8 years would have invested about $42k, yet would have ONLY accumulated about 5 BTC.  Still good results, but still likely needing more time for the continued building of the investment or for further time to run for additional compounding to take place, and yeah, the future is also not guaranteed, so each of us can ONLY do our best in terms of how aggressive we are going to be or how consistent, persistent and regular in our BTC accumulation, and hopefully not fucking around too much waiting rather than investing with as much aggressiveness as we are able to achieve without recking ourselves.

  👍      Those are very good points ser.

Plus for those newbies/normies who recently started their Bitcoin journey, not at two digits, three digits, four digits, BUT five digits, they could make an argument that they're ROI would be much larger if they buy and HODL an altcoin - OK, they could have those profits like if they bought Bitcoin at three digits, BUT long term, their profits would STILL have to be held in the hardest money on Earth, Bitcoin.

People are retarded if they are distracted into shitcoins, and this has been a phenomena that has existed through quite a bit of bitcoin's history, even going back to 2014 there were various shitcoins coming onto the scene including Ethereum sparking the proliferation of more and more shitcoins, and now various Ethereum competitors sparking new waves of shitcoins, including shitcoins being built on and pegged to bitcoin through NFTs, ordinals, runes, inscriptions etc.. .. so there are frequently going to be distractions, and surely some of the distractions are going to have had shocking levels of returns for some (non-insider) normie folks who time their entrance and their exit - but who the fuck should want to be spending his time trying to both figure out which shitcoin to get into and how to attempt to time their entrance/exit including surely some folks get distracted into trying to either be insiders or to be connected sufficiently to insiders in order to attempt to get the scoop on some shitcoin prior to other more gullible (and less informed) normies.  

Personally, I consider it a BIGASS waste of time to be trying to play the various roulette wheels of potentially 20k different shitcoins and to choose which one might have more pumpamentals than others including wasting time following supposed influencer groups or in some other way trying to get some kind of an inside scoop on some scammy project, whether it is Trump coin or some other bullshit unethical piece of crap project.  

Sure guys are going to still want to spend time on shitcoins, and my own suggestion has been that if they can at least limit their time, energies and money to less than 10% of what they put into bitcoin, then at least they might have some chances of moderating their level of distractedness, yet surely it can be difficult to save a gambler/trader from himself, since each gambler/trader has a right to figure out his strategy and even to learn that he is not smarter than everyone else when he ends up going down the trader/gambler path and figuring that he is going to be in the 1%-ish or whatever who ends up actually beating bitcoin in real terms rather than baloney made up spin numbers that they shitcoiners/gamblers frequently present to show their supposed outperformance of bitcoin blah blah  blah.

Newbies, HODLing your wealth in an altcoin/shitcoin simply is NOT worth that RISK. Buy a Hardware Wallet, or set up an offline computer, then HODL your precious Bitcoins in COLD STORAGE.

There is nothing wrong with getting started by holding bitcoin on exchanges and learning about bitcoin while building up a stash of bitcoin, and of course, the larger the bitcoin stash, then the more need to learn how to hold those bitcoin in self-custody.. so each person likely needs to figure out his bitcoin value (quantity) threshold prior to moving coins off of exchanges, how to store, including hardware wallets, some of which are better than others in terms of their being open source and having proven track records, yet even with fairly easy self-custody methods, there still can be some key management practices that need to be learned including saving back up keys and not just remembering their pin number on their hardware wallet.. .. and sometimes guys will overcomplicate their own self-custody and end up locking themselves out of their own coins or otherwise contributing to vulnerabilities without realizing it.  

Sometimes people can be very smart, but still make really stupid mistakes without realizing their mistake(s) until it is too late, so surely it could take a while to learn some of the BTC storage methods and to put good private key management (and UTXO management) practices into place... so surely many guys have seen that I frequently assert to get started in bitcoin right away and to learn as you go, yet each person also has to figure out their own levels of risk in terms of how much BTC that they are willing to keep on exchanges and with third parties before learning self-custody for themselves.  Some guys might be inspired and able to figure out their self-custody by the times they have ONLY $500 in value in bitcoin, and others, might get to $5k in value, and surely there are some folks who might hold more value on exchanges, and surely many of us realize that the higher the value held on exchanges, then the more motivated we should be to both figure out self-custody, but also to put self-custody into practice for something like 90% of our bitcoin holdings.

Bitcoin is not a get rich quick scheme. You must wait a long time to succeed from Bitcoin. If you ask Bitcoin to give you quick profits like Altcoins, then you will be wrong. Because Altcoins are like gambling. It is absolutely impossible to say when it will happen. You may win from Altcoins at some point but your money is at risk. Here the chances of losing your money are higher. In the long run, it may not give you a big benefit or you may lose everything.

It is true that Bitcoin is not a get rich quick scheme but Bitcoin investment will guarantee you maximum success if you can be patient for long time. I never want to compare alt coins with bitcoin or make any comments about those coins. And the question to you is how many people have you seen who have succeeded in investing in alt coins. Bitcoin's price drops, but it quickly rises again. Ask those who are experienced and knowledgeable about investing and they will always tell you to prioritize Bitcoin as your investment. Bitcoin investment requires patience and consistency because if you have patience then you will be able to hold your investment long term and if you have consistency in investment you will be able to buy bitcoins regularly.

You are right, however I want to make a point here, when some newbies come across investing in Bitcoin in this thread they really don't understand that you people are talking about long term Bitcoin investment and not Bitcoin trading and they get confuse on the particular strategy to use in investing in Bitcoin, as long as I'm concern when it comes to bitcoin investment going for a Long term holding is more better and less risky, I know some newbies here where introduce into Bitcoin through the strategy of trading Bitcoin, I'm not saying trading Bitcoin is not profitable but is risky and should be done with just 1 percent of your discretionary income if you most trade and then you can use the remaining part of your discretionary income to invest in long term, another reason why I think long term Bitcoin investment is better than trading is that, since Bitcoin is $100k and let say you started accumulating with $100k weekly or monthly for 10 to 20 years and eventually now bitcoin hits $1 million in price do you think someone who has been trading for 30 years will be more successful in the Bitcoin investment journey knowing fully well that some times the trader was losing money too, so long term Bitcoin investment is the best and newbies should take note.

Trading in Bitcoin and gambling are the same because it is impossible to tell when you will make a profit by trading or gambling.

You may win from trading at times but your money is at risk.
Because trading makes people gain temporarily and not for future.
In my opinion, why risk your hard earned money by trading.  Invest in Bitcoin, but for the long term.
Before investing for long term you must adopt certain strategies.

A portion of your earnings should be kept aside, for a long time as financial difficulties may arise temporarily.
You will no doubt invest in Bitcoin, but only for the long term. So Bitcoin long term investment will guarantee you maximum success.

Sure if you do everything correct, then you are going to have better odds of having success, yet surely there is no guarantee regarding your own ability to figure out best practices, to follow best practices and everything to end up working to your favor, even if you did everything as best as you were able to do.

Your word choice is not completely wrong fredericktaylor since for sure, it is a good idea for each of us to attempt to employ better practices (even if we might not exactly be able to determine what is best) in order to attempt to increase our odds of having better results and to give ourselves more options due to our having had exercised practices that were as good as we could figure them out to be.

Good explanation, it is a precise calculation and does not deviate at all. I agree with you that lump sum is a strategy for those who have extra money or in large amounts so that investors can act with a single purchase with the amount of money they have.
DCA is suitable for the long term with net income after adjustments to living expenses or discretionary income. So the steps taken by investors with the DCA strategy will take a long time, either 5 years or 10 years.

But from what has been explained with detailed calculations, of course large money is better to use the Lump sum strategy, in addition to saving purchase fees, Lump sum also saves time but the determination of the execution price will fall at one price only.
However, with DCA we may spend a lot of fees on each purchase, but our entry will not be fixed at one price because the purchase spread lasts for a long time.

The benefits are not much different, but that is a good difference and may be a good choice to apply along with following up on purchases for the next 10 years.

We read everywhere on Bitcointalk that DCA is best way to invest in Bitcoin. To understand exactly what DCA is and how it benefits us, we have to put some effort by calculating results of DCA on previous Bitcoin prices. There are different tools which can help you in calculating results of DCA, three of them are:
https://dcabtc.com/     
https://costavg.com/   

https://dcacryptocalculator.com/     
We can cross check results of DCA on these three sites listed above. With DCA we can go bullish in buying Bitcoin when we have extra cash or if we see that price has taken dip. One thing is also very clear that whether we go for Lump Sum or DCA, it must be for long term i.e. for 5 years or more.

One thing that is so advantageous to retrospectively analyzing DCA is that we can plug in some numbers to see how they play out during such time and get a bit of an automated and standard output.

If we want to figure out lump sum, then we have to figure out how much money any given person would have had at any given point of time, and the reality of the matter is that if we point out that some hypothetical person gets a bonus twice a year for the past 8 years, and then we hypothesize that such person is lump summing because he invests 100% of that lump sum into bitcoin, then the fact of the matter is that we are not really employing any practice that is different from how a DCA practice could be structured, so many times we can say fuck off with your assertion that lump sum is better, since DCA can still be structured like lump sum if it is investing as much money as comes available as soon as it comes available.

So there is a bit of a fantasy for guys to be suggesting that 7 years ago a guy had $35k available to him so he bought 7 bitcoin (at $5k per bitcoin), as compared to the guy who DCA'd into bitcoin over the past 7 years and the DCA'er only got 2.7 BTC with the same amount invested.

Who fucking cares about the amount invested, since the lump sum investor who fails to continue to invest into bitcoin is a whimp as compared to the one who both lump summed in at $5k 7 years ago and also invested $100 per week, so instead of ONLY getting 7 BTC, he ended up getting 9.7 BTC with double the amount invested ($70k invested).   Which one would you rather be?  The whimpy retard who did not have enough conviction to keep buying BTC or the one who continued to reinforce his conviction by continuing to buy BTC, even though he spent twice as much and his average cost per BTC was higher than the lump sum investor?    Does anyone need links to see these BTC price and quantity numbers?  You can look at the BTC price in early 2019 to figure out how much $35k would have had gotten you, and you can also look at the DCA websites (such as those above) to see how many BTC $100 per week between early 2019 and now would have had gotten you up until this point in time.  Then add up the numbers... and of course, we can see what would have had happened in the past, and we can attempt to figure out how we might treat bitcoin from here and into the future, since of course, it is quite unlikely that the past numbers are going to be repeated into the future, yet we still can attempt to figure out our BTC investment approach that accounts for the various strategies of DCA, lump sum and/or buying on dips.

Over the years, several of us, including yours truly, have continued to present examples that when it comes to king daddy, it has tended to be way better to be an active investor who is ongoing, persistent, consistent and perhaps even aggressive in regards to ongoing accumulation of bitcoin through ongoing buying of BTC as compared to being some whimpy twat who buys and sits on his hands for the next 7-10 years waiting to become a bajillionaire based on one or two purchases.  

I would suggest that to the extent that any of us are able, then we should attempt to have commitment and reinforcement of such bitcoin conviction and commitment through ongoing investment and buying of bitcoin rather than worshiping the lazy ass lump sum whimpier approach to bitcoin.  But hey whatever, you can do what you like, including worshiping the whimp.. .. which truly I will concede that even the whimpy bitcoin investor would have had done way better than the nocoiner who failed/refused to take any action to buy bitcoin, which truly there are a lot of those folks still out there.. including those thinking that bitcoin is too high to get started right now, and if they stick with their dumbass waiting perspective, they are likely going to look back 8-12 years or more and realize how much of a dummy they were for failing refusing to act or even realizing that they ended up being way too whimpy in their bitcoin approach by considering that they could just lump sum into bitcoin and sit on their hands, when  most likely a more interactive approach to bitcoin would have had resulted in way better personal outcomes (even though sure, bitcoin's future price performance is not guaranteed, either).

[Sonia_123]

Bitcoin is not a get rich quick scheme. You must wait a long time to succeed from Bitcoin. If you ask Bitcoin to give you quick profits like Altcoins, then you will be wrong. Because Altcoins are like gambling. It is absolutely impossible to say when it will happen. You may win from Altcoins at some point but your money is at risk. Here the chances of losing your money are higher. In the long run, it may not give you a big benefit or you may lose everything.

It is true that Bitcoin is not a get rich quick scheme but Bitcoin investment will guarantee you maximum success if you can be patient for long time. I never want to compare alt coins with bitcoin or make any comments about those coins. And the question to you is how many people have you seen who have succeeded in investing in alt coins. Bitcoin's price drops, but it quickly rises again. Ask those who are experienced and knowledgeable about investing and they will always tell you to prioritize Bitcoin as your investment. Bitcoin investment requires patience and consistency because if you have patience then you will be able to hold your investment long term and if you have consistency in investment you will be able to buy bitcoins regularly.

You are right, however I want to make a point here, when some newbies come across investing in Bitcoin in this thread they really don't understand that you people are talking about long term Bitcoin investment and not Bitcoin trading and they get confuse on the particular strategy to use in investing in Bitcoin, as long as I'm concern when it comes to bitcoin investment going for a Long term holding is more better and less risky, I know some newbies here where introduce into Bitcoin through the strategy of trading Bitcoin, I'm not saying trading Bitcoin is not profitable but is risky and should be done with just 1 percent of your discretionary income if you most trade and then you can use the remaining part of your discretionary income to invest in long term, another reason why I think long term Bitcoin investment is better than trading is that, since Bitcoin is $100k and let say you started accumulating with $100k weekly or monthly for 10 to 20 years and eventually now bitcoin hits $1 million in price do you think someone who has been trading for 30 years will be more successful in the Bitcoin investment journey knowing fully well that some times the trader was losing money too, so long term Bitcoin investment is the best and newbies should take note.

Trading in Bitcoin and gambling are the same because it is impossible to tell when you will make a profit by trading or gambling.

You may win from trading at times but your money is at risk.
Because trading makes people gain temporarily and not for future.

In my opinion, why risk your hard earned money by trading.  Invest in Bitcoin, but for the long term.
Before investing for long term you must adopt certain strategies.

A portion of your earnings should be kept aside, for a long time as financial difficulties may arise temporarily.
You will no doubt invest in Bitcoin, but only for the long term. So Bitcoin long term investment will guarantee you maximum success.

Bitcoin trading is not the same and can't be referred to as gambling,it is a Long-term investment  of 20 years to 25 years , which has various strategies such as DCA,Lump sum and others which can be used in buying the amount needed .
Bitcoin trading price movement is based on speculation,also buying and selling takes place through an exchange , Bitcoin is also volatile while gambling ,you partaking in activities that involves risking valuable items, property or money in other to win more money, it's does not appreciate in future.

[Ryu_Ar1]

Honestly, I'm starting to get fed up with all the talk about coins like this because it seems like too many people are blinded by the temporary hype that they don't realize it won't last.
In some sub forums there is also a lot of discussion about trump again, trump again and I'm getting bored with discussing coins that in the end will not develop apart from those who are trying to raise and drop it quickly as usual.

You are correct.  We cannot let the shitcoiners and the convolution of topics distract us from both seeing bitcoin first, but not letting them confuse and distract from our understanding of the value of bitcoin, bitcoin first and understanding the difference between bitcoin and shitcoins, including that dumb-ass politicians are talking out of both sides of their mouths and investing into WBTC rather than real bitcoin... and yeah, they might be making a killing through their fraud and the attention that they get, but we still need to keep our eyes on the prize, including if their might also be some attacks upon bitcoin that could be happening too.. yet even if there are not direct attacks, some of the framings could be more subtle kinds of attacks that contribute to confusion rather than clarity..

The views of some people are sometimes so naive when there are some influencers or some politicians who say and relate to bitcoin are always considered as blessings and assume that they will have a big impact on bitcoin when honestly there is no need to be glorified like that because it is precisely they themselves who borrow the name bitcoin to make their popularity lifted not the other way around because with their presence or absence bitcoin will actually be fine.
Likewise with this case, there is a lot of discussion about Trump or his coin which is always glorified even though he also only wants to make his name considered good enough among bitcoiners so that his candidacy is easier and it is proven that now he has found his position.

The conditions remain the same when indeed we are trying to find the best from the investment process that we do so why approach coins like this especially for the hype that in the end it will all come back to the original price even though it cannot be denied that the increase will come quickly but the destruction will come quickly because the shitcoin scheme will remain the same all without exception.

Sometimes shitcoins can retain value for many years and through more than one bitcoin cycle.. Think about that shitcoin ethereum, it is ONLY recently dying like it should be, yet many times, even recently, there were folks proclaiming that ethereum had outperformed bitcoin for extended periods of time (which it actually did), so there can be various ways to cause a lot of shitcoins to create value very quickly, and some folks might end up being successful in riding those waves or getting distracted into those kinds of pump and dump schemes. 

Some of them will pollute the conversation, and they might not even be factually inaccurate about how much money they made in a short period of time, yet there still are going to be needs to keep our eyes on the prize.. the scams are not going to stop and we might even have 4 years of scams, and some of them might outperform bitcoin, and we might not even know exactly why they are pumping and they might even have some "bitcoin-like" qualities, including ingenious ways to pump and to cause some of their followers to get rich quick and to be lured away from bitcoin.  If you sufficiently come to understand some of the reasons why bitcoin is sound money and why sound money is the killer app, then you are less likely to get distracted away by shiny objects and/or  lures of short term profits that may or may not end up working out for you, even if they might appear like "free-money." 

I would still suggest that any guys getting distracted into various shitcoins, they should attempt to exercise some self-control and don't be allocating more than 10% of your time, energies and/or values into shitcoins.  I personally recommend just say no to those distractions, yet I know many guys cannot resist, so if they can at least limit their gambling, then they would have greater chances of NOT overly fucking themselves in regards to their own inclinations towards "fun" or whatever might be luring them over to the shiny bells and whistles.

Indeed, not all will eventually crumble quickly because as you said there must be some that can survive for several years but in the end there is no need to focus too much on that because in the end our initial goal remains focused on bitcoin especially when talking about this $trump coin which even seems to be exaggerated news which in the end for now it seems that not a few people regret it and are trapped in shitcoin like this.

The conditions have not changed where when the movement of shitcoin very quickly rises to the surface then it is certain that they will also sink very quickly back down so it will be very funny when some people look highly at the movement of shitcoin like this.

So in the end, don't be too provoked just because of hype and fomo let alone have ridiculous beliefs like some people who say with full awareness that trump can surpass bitcoin    It's hard to digest sense lol.

People are repeatedly dumb, so they will buy into some of the talking points and even come to bitcoin threads to pump their nonsense.  Some guys will also get completely out of bitcoin or maybe even just hold 10% in bitcoin, so it can be difficult to control degeneracy and gullibility - and so sometimes it can be difficult to save others from themselves, and we largely may ONLY be able to save ourselves and/or to limit our own level of distractedness.

They are too lulled by the momentary gains at the end of the day that they forget an important thing that should not be forgotten.
Even though we can't blame those who fomo but should be with many things that have been felt before they should take the lessons that can be taken that shitcoin will remain shitcoin but most of them are already blinded by many ridiculous assumptions that in the end they always make the same mistake with fomo again and again.

[Mayor of ogba]

We have to admit that the best way to invest in Bitcoin is the DCA method, it is a good way for every investor. To hold Bitcoin for the long term we need to have confidence that Bitcoin will do well in the future, we need to take risks and be patient. What I have learned from my real experience, is to invest what you can afford to lose in order to hold Bitcoin for the long term. I invest in Bitcoin and forget that I invested in Bitcoin. So I prefer to buy Bitcoin even at this time, my plan is to continue investing with DCA method until 2029. Now everyone has a different strategy, one person's plan will not match another's.

The DCA method is very relevant for use by all investors, both investors from the lower middle economic class and the upper middle class. Because if explained more simply, the DCA technique looks like saving. However, the difference is that DCA is more well organized and has a regular time for making bitcoin purchases. That's why DCA is perfect for all bitcoin investors. Because buying bitcoin regularly means investors don't need to be afraid of price fluctuations. But in my personal opinion, DCA can also be divided into two types depending on the circumstances of bitcoin investors. The reason is that quite a few investors collect their money first, then carry out DCA and divide their purchasing time into a certain period of time. However, there are also those who carry out DCA based on the discretionary income they can get every month from their work salary. I think these two DCA methods have the same goal. But the first method may be more suitable for rich people and the second method may be more suitable for people with middle economic conditions. So with this, it is clear that DCA is a very good purchasing method for investing in bitcoin.

I personally think that inconsistencies in income and expenses could be reasons for holding back value rather than investing right away, so surely poor people have disadvantages over rich people in terms of even making sure that they have enough income to be able to invest into bitcoin, since sometimes there is not enough income to work with in terms of making sure that they are able to build an emergency fund, yet the poor person likely needs to the emergency fund more than the rich person, yet if your point was that the poor person is not able to hold any money back for an emergency fund, then the poor person is going to end up getting fucked when he has any little emergency and he has to tap into his investment prior to his intention. so emergency funds are just as important (if not more important) for poor people as compared with rich people... but yeah, it is likely that a lot of poor people stay poor because they end up using their investment as their emergency funds rather than making sure that they have enough flexibility in their cashflow to make sure that they never have to sell their BTC at a time that is not of their own choosing.. which becomes way more dangerous with any investment that is volatile, like bitcoin.

I agree with your. I prefer long-term planning with Bitcoin, so from my point of view it becomes a bit difficult for poor people to invest long-term, because they don't have enough money to invest.  However, it is more important for poor people to have an emergency fund than for rich people, as their income is less stable and unexpected expenses can further damage their finances.  If a poor person wants to invest in Bitcoin, he must have an emergency fund because his long-term investment can solve the problem from the emergency fund in case of financial problems, that's why basically every person needs an emergency fund.

As far as bitcoin investment is concerned, both the poor and the rich investors need to set aside an emergency fund because it is what will help them to solve their unforeseen problems that may occur along their bitcoin accumulation journey. Even if they don't build up their emergency fund at the beginning of their bitcoin investment, there is no problem with it; they can go ahead and start their bitcoin investment, but they should make sure to build it up as they are accumulating bitcoin. Surely bitcoin investment is applicable on a long-term basis, so anyone who is interested in investing in bitcoin should understand that bitcoin investment is about being patient because it is only in the long run that someone can actually achieve success in bitcoin investment.

[sotelorene]

Newbies, HODLing your wealth in an altcoin/shitcoin simply is NOT worth that RISK.

Good advice to newbies because most of them feels that there are shitcoins that are more volatile than bitcoins and tends to invest on them for short term gains but it will be stupid for a newbie to take because of short terms gains and risks their money on some fucking worthless shitcoins that can dump drastically within the shortest period of time and they lose their money. Often times, newbies are advised not to invest in shitcoins but some of them pay deaf ears and after they must have learnt their lessons, they come about seeking for the best investment advice. Newbies should learn to say NO to shitcoins and embrace long term HODLing in bitcoins.
 

That is ignorant and some people choose to experience it before they will learn, not knowing that  some times experience is not the best teacher because it may or it can lead someone to where they least expected that is a critical state. However, even if it is true that shitcoin is more volatile than Bitcoin, that should be the more reason why they shouldn't even go into it because you can predict or speculate exactly what will be the next movement and direction of the..., and I have come to realize that most times what drag some people into this trading is greed, they will first of all visualize how the market is going to move and how much profit they are going to make not knowing that it doesn't work that way. Lastly, they shouldn't just embrace the long term holding rather they should also endeavor to do and keep all that is required before success can be achieve or obtain.

[JayJuanGee]

Honestly, I'm starting to get fed up with all the talk about coins like this because it seems like too many people are blinded by the temporary hype that they don't realize it won't last.
In some sub forums there is also a lot of discussion about trump again, trump again and I'm getting bored with discussing coins that in the end will not develop apart from those who are trying to raise and drop it quickly as usual.

You are correct.  We cannot let the shitcoiners and the convolution of topics distract us from both seeing bitcoin first, but not letting them confuse and distract from our understanding of the value of bitcoin, bitcoin first and understanding the difference between bitcoin and shitcoins, including that dumb-ass politicians are talking out of both sides of their mouths and investing into WBTC rather than real bitcoin... and yeah, they might be making a killing through their fraud and the attention that they get, but we still need to keep our eyes on the prize, including if their might also be some attacks upon bitcoin that could be happening too.. yet even if there are not direct attacks, some of the framings could be more subtle kinds of attacks that contribute to confusion rather than clarity..

The views of some people are sometimes so naive when there are some influencers or some politicians who say and relate to bitcoin are always considered as blessings and assume that they will have a big impact on bitcoin when honestly there is no need to be glorified like that because it is precisely they themselves who borrow the name bitcoin to make their popularity lifted not the other way around because with their presence or absence bitcoin will actually be fine.
Likewise with this case, there is a lot of discussion about Trump or his coin which is always glorified even though he also only wants to make his name considered good enough among bitcoiners so that his candidacy is easier and it is proven that now he has found his position.

Some folks label Trump's actions as a grift on bitcoin, yet it also could be labelled as another variation of an affinity scam, which largely is the same thing as a grift, even though people might better understand the concept of an affinity scam is to put yourself next to something like bitcoin and then to play off of the reputation of that thing (in this case bitcoin) in order to make yourself and/or your ideas seem more valuable.  Surely it can become more difficult when someone like a USA president has a lot of power to make various kinds of changes (or proposals or actions) that can contribute towards pumping and/or dumping of the asset, in this case bitcoin... We surely cannot proclaim that Trump's actions are meaningless, especially when some of them have quite material impacts, whether referring to a full and unconditional pardon of Ross Ulbricht or various studies of bitcoin or putting of folks who seem to be quite a bit on the side of bitcoin into positions of power (even if some of them are quasi-shitcoiners too), very material impacts end up playing out that also may well contribute towards gaining support of bitcoiners who might have had otherwise been more vocally opposed to the various kinds of ways that Trump balances various policy direction attempts - including his tendencies towards self-serving can be overlooked if his self-serving seems to also align with either seemingly pro-bitcoin or at least a step in the direction of a less anti-bitcoin kind of an approach.

The conditions remain the same when indeed we are trying to find the best from the investment process that we do so why approach coins like this especially for the hype that in the end it will all come back to the original price even though it cannot be denied that the increase will come quickly but the destruction will come quickly because the shitcoin scheme will remain the same all without exception.

Sometimes shitcoins can retain value for many years and through more than one bitcoin cycle.. Think about that shitcoin ethereum, it is ONLY recently dying like it should be, yet many times, even recently, there were folks proclaiming that ethereum had outperformed bitcoin for extended periods of time (which it actually did), so there can be various ways to cause a lot of shitcoins to create value very quickly, and some folks might end up being successful in riding those waves or getting distracted into those kinds of pump and dump schemes. 

Some of them will pollute the conversation, and they might not even be factually inaccurate about how much money they made in a short period of time, yet there still are going to be needs to keep our eyes on the prize.. the scams are not going to stop and we might even have 4 years of scams, and some of them might outperform bitcoin, and we might not even know exactly why they are pumping and they might even have some "bitcoin-like" qualities, including ingenious ways to pump and to cause some of their followers to get rich quick and to be lured away from bitcoin.  If you sufficiently come to understand some of the reasons why bitcoin is sound money and why sound money is the killer app, then you are less likely to get distracted away by shiny objects and/or  lures of short term profits that may or may not end up working out for you, even if they might appear like "free-money." 

I would still suggest that any guys getting distracted into various shitcoins, they should attempt to exercise some self-control and don't be allocating more than 10% of your time, energies and/or values into shitcoins.  I personally recommend just say no to those distractions, yet I know many guys cannot resist, so if they can at least limit their gambling, then they would have greater chances of NOT overly fucking themselves in regards to their own inclinations towards "fun" or whatever might be luring them over to the shiny bells and whistles.

Indeed, not all will eventually crumble quickly because as you said there must be some that can survive for several years but in the end there is no need to focus too much on that because in the end our initial goal remains focused on bitcoin especially when talking about this $trump coin which even seems to be exaggerated news which in the end for now it seems that not a few people regret it and are trapped in shitcoin like this.

If Trump is alive for all four years of what is supposed to be his presidency term (referring to his age), then his shitcoin can potentially be pumped and dumped through the whole period, even though surely if Trump's various behaviors end up going too far overboard, there could be backlash that comes in a variety of ways, and even from a legal perspective, they are likely dancing on a very tight rope in terms of what Trump can get away with and not trigger some kind of an investigation or even obvious breaches of the Emoluments clause of the constitutions (which is supposed to prevent the president from being bribable by foreign powers and perhaps other readings of it), to the extent that the emoluments clause applies to him as he strives to be exempt from all laws and sometimes it seems that the Supreme Court has contributed towards the creation of a monster in terms of their seeming to want to bend over backwards to jump through all kinds of weird constitutional/legal interpretations to agree with some of his  (and his counsel's) seemingly crazy-ass arguments in regards to his being exempt from various laws and/or abilities to be prosecuted... .and sure, he does not seem to be unwilling to push limits beyond credulity and potentially contribute towards potential constitutional crises depending on interpretations of how much he might be successful in pushing certain kinds of boundaries.

Bitcoiners might sometimes consider him to be aligned with bitcoiner interests, yet I doubt that is it always going to be very clear what the ramifications  of some of his behaviors might be, whether it is pumping of his shitcoins or some of his other shit-stirring behaviors that normies (including bitcoiners) might believe that they like or that they are on similar teams until they don't like it anymore.  His being "full of surprises" is a known character flaw that might not always end up playing out well in a variety of ways, whether financial systems or political systems or even military or policing systems.  The impacts can end up overlapping, and we might not even see some of the ramifications of some of Trump's behaviors or how he might be compromised until later down the road, and so we might not even know the extent to which Bitcoin might end up being negatively affected by some of his behaviors, whether it is related to Trump coin or some other goofy behaviors that he might test out.

The conditions have not changed where when the movement of shitcoin very quickly rises to the surface then it is certain that they will also sink very quickly back down so it will be very funny when some people look highly at the movement of shitcoin like this.

It might not always ONLY be the shitcoin, but also the extent to which supposed stable coins are being used to surveil, lock, control and or block transactions even when there is a little disguise to proclaim that there is an anti-CBDC focus, but at the same time promoting stable coins that might not be very much different from a CBDC even if they are not directly "banker" controlled, they still are tending to be closed source and lacking in transparency..and we might not be able to sue the government about them when there is supposedly no government action, even though there still might be behind the scenes government manipulations.  Whether shitcoins or stable coins, there can sometimes be attempts to control bitcoin through various mechanisms while trying to act as if they are "bitcoin friendly" blah blah blah..

And, surely I am not saying to not invest into bitcoin, since investing in bitcoin and controlling your own keys dampens the abilities of governments (whether supposedly friendly or not) from being able to get their grubby little mitts to control our transactions and surveil us.

So in the end, don't be too provoked just because of hype and fomo let alone have ridiculous beliefs like some people who say with full awareness that trump can surpass bitcoin    It's hard to digest sense lol.

People are repeatedly dumb, so they will buy into some of the talking points and even come to bitcoin threads to pump their nonsense.  Some guys will also get completely out of bitcoin or maybe even just hold 10% in bitcoin, so it can be difficult to control degeneracy and gullibility - and so sometimes it can be difficult to save others from themselves, and we largely may ONLY be able to save ourselves and/or to limit our own level of distractedness.

They are too lulled by the momentary gains at the end of the day that they forget an important thing that should not be forgotten.
Even though we can't blame those who fomo but should be with many things that have been felt before they should take the lessons that can be taken that shitcoin will remain shitcoin but most of them are already blinded by many ridiculous assumptions that in the end they always make the same mistake with fomo again and again.

Each of us still has to be skeptical of even number go up technology, including in bitcoin, since the power of bitcoin is not merely its number go up, but its ability to transact directly between normies (including us) and including big players and including institutions and including alleged criminals (not that I am promoting criminals) without getting permission in advance....  So sure, we might be lured into various inferior products, and sometimes we might not even know for sure the extent to which our wallets are allowing for transacting without surveillance or abilities to get locked.. ..so for sure, I would not be claiming that just staying away from shitcoins is the ONLY thing that we need to continue to attempt to be vigilant about...and so each of us likely just does his best to both protect our BTC and to keep a decent percentage of our coins in our own private wallets rather than being held in wallets that might be controllable by third parties.  There are also platforms like NOSTR in which we can attempt to communicate without being censored.. and sure this forum strives to allow for as much free speech as possible, but at the same time, there might be certain kind of matters that the forum might not be comfortable to allow, which surely we saw nervousness around mixers, and it can be difficult to know if some of those services will be allowed to be discussed in the future.... .. so sometimes we might have to dance around some of the security and privacy topics.. even though each of us may well consider that we have rights to security and privacy in our transactions without anyone presuming that we are doing anything wrong merely because we would like to either mix our coins or coin join or create some plausible deniability in regards to how many coins we have and which addresses are our coins versus some other person.

We have to admit that the best way to invest in Bitcoin is the DCA method, it is a good way for every investor. To hold Bitcoin for the long term we need to have confidence that Bitcoin will do well in the future, we need to take risks and be patient. What I have learned from my real experience, is to invest what you can afford to lose in order to hold Bitcoin for the long term. I invest in Bitcoin and forget that I invested in Bitcoin. So I prefer to buy Bitcoin even at this time, my plan is to continue investing with DCA method until 2029. Now everyone has a different strategy, one person's plan will not match another's.

The DCA method is very relevant for use by all investors, both investors from the lower middle economic class and the upper middle class. Because if explained more simply, the DCA technique looks like saving. However, the difference is that DCA is more well organized and has a regular time for making bitcoin purchases. That's why DCA is perfect for all bitcoin investors. Because buying bitcoin regularly means investors don't need to be afraid of price fluctuations. But in my personal opinion, DCA can also be divided into two types depending on the circumstances of bitcoin investors. The reason is that quite a few investors collect their money first, then carry out DCA and divide their purchasing time into a certain period of time. However, there are also those who carry out DCA based on the discretionary income they can get every month from their work salary. I think these two DCA methods have the same goal. But the first method may be more suitable for rich people and the second method may be more suitable for people with middle economic conditions. So with this, it is clear that DCA is a very good purchasing method for investing in bitcoin.

I personally think that inconsistencies in income and expenses could be reasons for holding back value rather than investing right away, so surely poor people have disadvantages over rich people in terms of even making sure that they have enough income to be able to invest into bitcoin, since sometimes there is not enough income to work with in terms of making sure that they are able to build an emergency fund, yet the poor person likely needs to the emergency fund more than the rich person, yet if your point was that the poor person is not able to hold any money back for an emergency fund, then the poor person is going to end up getting fucked when he has any little emergency and he has to tap into his investment prior to his intention. so emergency funds are just as important (if not more important) for poor people as compared with rich people... but yeah, it is likely that a lot of poor people stay poor because they end up using their investment as their emergency funds rather than making sure that they have enough flexibility in their cashflow to make sure that they never have to sell their BTC at a time that is not of their own choosing.. which becomes way more dangerous with any investment that is volatile, like bitcoin.

I agree with your. I prefer long-term planning with Bitcoin, so from my point of view it becomes a bit difficult for poor people to invest long-term, because they don't have enough money to invest.  However, it is more important for poor people to have an emergency fund than for rich people, as their income is less stable and unexpected expenses can further damage their finances.  If a poor person wants to invest in Bitcoin, he must have an emergency fund because his long-term investment can solve the problem from the emergency fund in case of financial problems, that's why basically every person needs an emergency fund.

As far as bitcoin investment is concerned, both the poor and the rich investors need to set aside an emergency fund because it is what will help them to solve their unforeseen problems that may occur along their bitcoin accumulation journey.

You are correct that both poor and rich need to have emergency funds, yet the issue of emergency funds is way more urgent (and even a deal breaker) with poor people, since by definition poor people do not have a lot of resources from which to draw, and rich folks may have all kinds of assets or even rich parent upon which they can draw so they can choose from which asset they are going to draw first when they make mistakes in regards to projecting out their monthly cashflow needs.  

Poor people, on the other hand, are way more likely to be fucked, by some potentially innocent miscalculation since they might have absolutely no other resources upon which to draw when they screw things up so then they are forced to sell some or all of their bitcoin at a time that is not of their own choosing... So many poor people end up fucking up their own finances because their bitcoin ends up serving as their emergency fund, and so then poor people might not even realize that they are largely held to a higher standard in part because they don't have hardly shit in place to back them up if their financial matters (cashflow) goes sour, even some minor mistake might end up wiping them out even though the rich guy might run to daddy and ask him if he has $5k to borrow for the next month or two while he gets his shit together and daddy says no problem. Pulls out his wallet (or his cash app) and sends $5k to his loser rich and spoiled bratt son...and sure the rich little brat might not even need daddy to directly bail him out, he just goes to the safety deposit box of his grandma and grabs $5k of those bonds that are sitting in there (with his name on them). ..so yeah, the rich snotty nosed kid may well have a variety of sources that he might not have had been exactly counting as an emergency fund, but at the same time, he has several options when he screws things up to choose whether to cash out some or all of his BTC or to cash out of some other asset.. ... and the poor guy does not have that and the best that he can do is go to his stable aunt who might be able to spare him $200, but she needs it back by the end of the month....so poor people really need to pay attention and to be conscious about systems that they may well need to put in place that rich peeps already have in place, even if they did not realize that they already had a bunch of  back ups for when they screw things up.

TLDR:  So my point is that it is not like the rich peeps don't need emergency funds, it is that they already have a variety of emergency funds even without trying.. and the poor person has to purposefully, intentionally and probably strugglingly make sure to consciously put emergency funds in place and make sure that he is not under-estimating the actual material need for him to put those kind of back up systems in place.

Even if they don't build up their emergency fund at the beginning of their bitcoin investment, there is no problem with it; they can go ahead and start their bitcoin investment, but they should make sure to build it up as they are accumulating bitcoin. Surely bitcoin investment is applicable on a long-term basis, so anyone who is interested in investing in bitcoin should understand that bitcoin investment is about being patient because it is only in the long run that someone can actually achieve success in bitcoin investment.

This is completely true.  Even the poor person should not hesitate in regards to getting started in bitcoin as soon as possible, even though they may have to spend time building their emergency fund simultaneously as they are building their bitcoin (so taking away from how much they can put into bitcoin).  Sure the rich person may also need to pay attention to what emergency funds that he has so that he has options, yet by definition, many, if not all, rich people are going to already have a variety of back up places in which they can draw funds, so they rich person may well not be forced into selling bitcoin, but might still be forced into using some funds from some place that he did not want to use because he had not specifically made sure that he had funds that were more liquid and/or available.

[Mayor of ogba]

Most people just abandoned Bitcoin when the price is very very low. They don't even think that the price can surge and hit $100.000 because they think that is impossible. But then when the price slowly increase and hit many new ATH, they will start pay attention to Bitcoin although they still not trying to buy and hold Bitcoin.

They don't think to use Bitcoin as their investment because they are still prefer with their current investment such as gold and others. Or they don't want to open their minds to see the other opportunity to become rich in the future.

That's why knowledge and consistency in investing in Bitcoin are important, because many people who enter Bitcoin invest by just following other people, they don't understand Bitcoin's volatility and its potential in the future - even many invest like gambling/trading. Because if they understand how to invest properly in Bitcoin, they will not be affected by the market, and will continue to regularly invest in Bitcoin at any price using their discretionary income or money they are ready to invest, and hold it even more than 1-2 cycles until they can get a decent profit from it.

Someone who's really interested in Bitcoin investment must not understand how Bitcoin investment is before they start their investment journey. IMO, the first step to invest on Bitcoin is to know the safest wallet to store your Bitcoin for the long-run and also know how much to use for your Bitcoin investment journey before all this you also need to have a long term perspective.
A Bitcoin newbie should use DCA method for investing on Bitcoin because gradually investing gradually learning about Bitcoin investment. Like a student, we don't know any but when we attend classes and reading books we can know what we don't. Just trying to say that a Bitcoin investor can not know about Bitcoin investment unless he's making practice while he invest.

Bitcoin investment is not like any other investment, and someone can invest in bitcoin without learning everything about bitcoin, but learning about bitcoin wallets is not even the first step newbies should take when they want to invest in bitcoin. The first steps newbies should take when investing in bitcoin are to figure out the amount of bitcoin they want to accumulate, how long they are going to hold their bitcoin, and figure out if they will have a steady income and discretionary income that would allow them to comfortably accumulate bitcoin and also take care of their daily expenses at the same time. When newbies have accumulated $500-$1000 worth of bitcoin on a centralized exchange, they can now learn about the best bitcoin wallet that is safe for them to use and store their bitcoin.

[BitBakerr1]

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Whether you're rich or poor,  save some money for emergencies before or while you buy Bitcoin.  Life happens. Bitcoin is a long-term game; be patient and hold. Having savings protects your Bitcoin journey.

Yeah you are right having an emergency funds is very important when you are an investor because it helps you during emergency time, it makes things more easier for you the reason why I'm saying this is because I remember when I had an accident years back and I was saving some money I used that money I was saving to take care of the hospital bill a friend of mine that was also involved in the accident with me borrowed money in other to settle his own hospital bill, now if he had a Bitcoin he would have sold it in other to take care of his hospital bill instead of borrowing but if I had a Bitcoin then I wouldn't have sold mine because I already have a backup funds that will settle the medical bill for me, so having an emergency funds as an investor is part of the things that will help you keep hold to your Bitcoin investment and should be taken seriously by everyone especially long term Bitcoin investors.

[WhoYouCantKill]

Even if they don't build up their emergency fund at the beginning of their bitcoin investment, there is no problem with it; they can go ahead and start their bitcoin investment, but they should make sure to build it up as they are accumulating bitcoin. Surely bitcoin investment is applicable on a long-term basis, so anyone who is interested in investing in bitcoin should understand that bitcoin investment is about being patient because it is only in the long run that someone can actually achieve success in bitcoin investment.

This is completely true.  Even the poor person should not hesitate in regards to getting started in bitcoin as soon as possible, even though they may have to spend time building their emergency fund simultaneously as they are building their bitcoin (so taking away from how much they can put into bitcoin).  Sure the rich person may also need to pay attention to what emergency funds that he has so that he has options, yet by definition, many, if not all, rich people are going to already have a variety of back up places in which they can draw funds, so they rich person may well not be forced into selling bitcoin, but might still be forced into using some funds from some place that he did not want to use because he had not specifically made sure that he had funds that were more liquid and/or available.

That’s absolutely true. Bitcoin accumulation should not only limited to only those that are rich or with deep pockets. Regardless of anyone’s financial situation/status, everyone should consider investing in Bitcoin.

Indeed, the importance of building an emergency fund can never be overemphasized, especially to those investors who are living paycheck to paycheck. No one prays for an emergency that’ll eat up your savings but the truth remains that those unforeseen circumstances are inevitable thus making it overly essential to prepare for these situations so one wouldn’t feel much financial strain and pressure when it finally pops up and Having a cushion can also be a lifesaver you know.
But the thing about this Emergency fund is that, many people believe or thinks that to build an emergency fund, one would necessarily need to put their Bitcoin accumulation on hold, which is a very flawed way of looking at it.

It’s all about finding a way to balance the both situations. You start you Bitcoin investment immediately, regardless of how small the amount is, what’s important is that you do it consistently and regularly, it could be weekly or even monthly, depending on your income flow, and then simultaneously build your emergency fund.
Yeah it’s true that this method might take a lot longer to reach one’s financial goals but at least it’s better late than never. Maybe when you’ve been able to build you emergency fund to a particular point where it can be able to cover for at least 4 to 6 months of your living expenses, then you can stop building and divert that focus on accumulating your Bitcoin, and this time more aggressively.

You’re absolutely correct about rich people not facing the same financial pressures as the poor or those with insufficient income and struggling to make ends meet. The rich have multiple sources of income, diversified investments and a much larger safety net to fall back on in times of emergencies and unforeseen consequences, but that doesn’t in any way imply that they are immune to financial strains.

Regardless of how much a rich man has, it’s still very crucial for them to know how to carefully manage their finances, and also make sure that theirs enough liquid assets available for unexpected expenses too. These situations may not necessarily make them sell their Bitcoin for financial assistance, but it’ll compel them to tap into other funds, which could potentially affect their overall financial strategy.