[ANN][0.8.6] Hirocoin - X11 - NGW - Secured Blockchain - Time Warp Limitation

[tuvokcoin]

I can understand why investors, especially the early investors, are unhappy as they've seen their investment continue to plummet. My stance on the modification of the block reward and POS implementation is that it should only be done as an absolute last resort. While it may fix the current fall in value, what happens later? We repeat the same thing again? The modification doesn't add anything to the coin other than artificially inflate the value. I can see why Joerii is against it also as it would heavily benefit any current holders of HIRO and make their current share a large percentage of the total supply of HIRO which is against the decentralization concept of cryptocurrencies.

Regarding the HiroPool, I've added an x13 port which should prove to be even more profitable than the x11 port. The previous issues with the x11 port profitability have been solved and we've paid out 200% more HIRO than if mining directly.
576,000

A little interesting market tidbit is that at the current block reward of 400 HIRO and 60s block time, we produce 24000 HIRO an hour and 576,000 HIRO a day. At the current price of roughly 150 satoshi we require only  0.864BTC to buy ALL HIRO produced daily. It really shouldn't take much to get us going in the right direction and this shows that unless multipools are responsible for dumping all HIRO produced daily they aren't of concern.

Omar,

You seem to be missing the point. The modifications I proposed at least (1/2 reward + POS) are not to artificially inflate but to prevent artificial deflation through multipool dumping. Defend the coin in some way. This is the whole point behind your own multipool -  provide buying support to counteract dumping. Is it not? I for one don't like the trend of multipool cannibalization. I would have thought Hiro would have avoided it as well. New smart coins will now all be POS with limited POW (or none at all). No problem if you disagree, as long as you see clearly the intention. Are there any other ideas to defend the coin?

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[ISAWHIM]

How does a coin protect itself from multipools then?

The only protection from multipools is a coin that does NOT decay exponentially in "reward", as more miners jump onto it. It does need to decay, but not exponentially with the exponential miners that it attracts.

The only other way around that, is to BUY what they DUMP. Since they are mining at a loss, it is a gain for you to buy them, as opposed to mining them. Multipools still have that illusion that they are "gaining", when the reality is, they are creating their own losses that they actually have. Takes people a while to realize they are losing in a multipool, except the few lazy ones who are just too stupid to realize they are being used.

P.S. No "dev" owns a coin. They may be the only ones releasing versions, but if it has no followers, and another dev releases a new version that has more followers, guess which dev-team will die-off. The one that stopped listening to the ones holding the coin, who are the "owners of the coin".

It doesn't matter who develops it. It only matters who uses it. Since devs are not the primary users, (if they are, then it is the devs coin), it is not the devs coin.

You think the devs will be around in 100 years, or 50... No, just like bitcoin and litecoin has had many many many devs. No-one owns bitcoin or litecoin.

That being said... You want this coin to go up in value, just buy some. Every coin you buy, lower than your highest coin, lowers your average that you paid. Eventually, at some point, you will have an average low enough to sell for a more reasonable price. Especially now that bitcoins is on a hike to $6000+ You get exponential rewards, if you do it right. There is no reason why Hiro can't be equally as valuable as DRK. (Not the same coin-value, as the rewards and coin-volumes are not the same.)

P.P.S. You don't buy coins at the top, to sell at the bottom... You buy coins in BULK at the bottom, to sell in BULK at the top. (Take a guess where Hiro is now, top or bottom? Hint: it's not at the top!)

[coinlighter]

I can understand why investors, especially the early investors, are unhappy as they've seen their investment continue to plummet. My stance on the modification of the block reward and POS implementation is that it should only be done as an absolute last resort. While it may fix the current fall in value, what happens later? We repeat the same thing again? The modification doesn't add anything to the coin other than artificially inflate the value. I can see why Joerii is against it also as it would heavily benefit any current holders of HIRO and make their current share a large percentage of the total supply of HIRO which is against the decentralization concept of cryptocurrencies.

Regarding the HiroPool, I've added an x13 port which should prove to be even more profitable than the x11 port. The previous issues with the x11 port profitability have been solved and we've paid out 200% more HIRO than if mining directly.
576,000

A little interesting market tidbit is that at the current block reward of 400 HIRO and 60s block time, we produce 24000 HIRO an hour and 576,000 HIRO a day. At the current price of roughly 150 satoshi we require only  0.864BTC to buy ALL HIRO produced daily. It really shouldn't take much to get us going in the right direction and this shows that unless multipools are responsible for dumping all HIRO produced daily they aren't of concern.

The problem is the market is flooded with coins.There's great supply but absolutely no demand(No one wants to buy from the left side, they just put up buy order at lower price and waiting the dump.

In 3 month there will be 2 times more coins then it is now, what will happen to the price then if it now 130sat ?, even if demand will increase I doubt that we can pass 1000 sat again with this specs.

I, for one, would have never bought at 1000 or even at 500 sat if I knew that there will be 670m coins(It's my fault I know), how innovative the coin is.
Can anyone name a coin with this specs and the price held over 2 month above 100sat except of course Hirocoin?
The true price for this coin is no more then 80sat at this specs, in my humble opinion.
The price may stabilize when it will be no longer profitable for multipools to mine and dump, but when that time comes I think it will be to late to recover the price.

Regards

I can understand why investors, especially the early investors, are unhappy as they've seen their investment continue to plummet. My stance on the modification of the block reward and POS implementation is that it should only be done as an absolute last resort. While it may fix the current fall in value, what happens later? We repeat the same thing again? The modification doesn't add anything to the coin other than artificially inflate the value. I can see why Joerii is against it also as it would heavily benefit any current holders of HIRO and make their current share a large percentage of the total supply of HIRO which is against the decentralization concept of cryptocurrencies.

Regarding the HiroPool, I've added an x13 port which should prove to be even more profitable than the x11 port. The previous issues with the x11 port profitability have been solved and we've paid out 200% more HIRO than if mining directly.
576,000

A little interesting market tidbit is that at the current block reward of 400 HIRO and 60s block time, we produce 24000 HIRO an hour and 576,000 HIRO a day. At the current price of roughly 150 satoshi we require only  0.864BTC to buy ALL HIRO produced daily. It really shouldn't take much to get us going in the right direction and this shows that unless multipools are responsible for dumping all HIRO produced daily they aren't of concern.

Thanks for your response, Omar. If there was a permanent sure fix to the current landscape, I'm sure you guys would have put it in place yesterday. Every idea has its upside and downside, but the point is that staying the course ain't working. I think we can all agree on that one fact, even if we don't agree on what the next steps should be.

Are you open to the community voting on how the coin should move forward? Given your team's willingness to be open and transparent, why not invite all Hirocoin investors, both young and old, to come together as one, and decide as a group what happens next? This is the community's coin, isn't it?

I second that. Let the community decide (Of course if it is the community's coin).

[tuvokcoin]

How does a coin protect itself from multipools then?

The only protection from multipools is a coin that does NOT decay exponentially in "reward", as more miners jump onto it. It does need to decay, but not exponentially with the exponential miners that it attracts.

The only other way around that, is to BUY what they DUMP. Since they are mining at a loss, it is a gain for you to buy them, as opposed to mining them. Multipools still have that illusion that they are "gaining", when the reality is, they are creating their own losses that they actually have. Takes people a while to realize they are losing in a multipool, except the few lazy ones who are just too stupid to realize they are being used.

P.S. No "dev" owns a coin. They may be the only ones releasing versions, but if it has no followers, and another dev releases a new version that has more followers, guess which dev-team will die-off. The one that stopped listening to the ones holding the coin, who are the "owners of the coin".

It doesn't matter who develops it. It only matters who uses it. Since devs are not the primary users, (if they are, then it is the devs coin), it is not the devs coin.

You think the devs will be around in 100 years, or 50... No, just like bitcoin and litecoin has had many many many devs. No-one owns bitcoin or litecoin.

That being said... You want this coin to go up in value, just buy some. Every coin you buy, lower than your highest coin, lowers your average that you paid. Eventually, at some point, you will have an average low enough to sell for a more reasonable price. Especially now that bitcoins is on a hike to $6000+ You get exponential rewards, if you do it right. There is no reason why Hiro can't be equally as valuable as DRK. (Not the same coin-value, as the rewards and coin-volumes are not the same.)

P.P.S. You don't buy coins at the top, to sell at the bottom... You buy coins in BULK at the bottom, to sell in BULK at the top. (Take a guess where Hiro is now, top or bottom? Hint: it's not at the top!)

These boards can be a bit frustrating. Much too much lowest common denominator thinking, baseless assumptions and truisms offered as insight. Or maybe you were just being sarcastic.

[equalizer]

Like Isawhim said, "No "dev" owns a coin. They may be the only ones releasing versions, but if it has no followers, and another dev releases a new version that has more followers, guess which dev-team will die-off."

Omar - I wonder if the last resort is the original Hiro team's refusal to make the changes the community is asking for and this refusal resulting in someone else releasing a new version of Hirocoin. If something like this were to happen, lots of people will be hurt, angry, and bitter. Why go there? There is no shame in Joerii or Hiro or anyone else saying - hey, we really had the best intentions for this coin, we thought our way was the best way, but maybe now is the time for the community to chime in. I think something like this takes major balls, and it would actually bring the community back together, working toward the same goal. We need to banish embarrassment and encourage bravery. Sometimes admitting that you (the general you) were wrong so now it's time to fix it - sometimes this can be cathartic and inspirational.

Everyone believed in Hiro from the start. I think it's safe to say that we would prefer Hiro to continue leading the dev effort, no matter what the community decides. But there has to be a willingness and an openness for any of this to work. Let's do everything we can to keep this coin from going below 100 sat and getting comfortable there.

[tuvokcoin]

The community can decide what to do with a common understanding of the issues. It is more complex than price. I would recommend we do a SWOT matrix to get on the same page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWOT_analysis

Internal Strengths
- strong and still active development team
- well designed coin with reliable operational track record

Internal Weaknesses
-interfacing with the community/lack of community influence ownership
-coin governance, direction, strategy
-profitable features that address market needs are not being identified (doesn't appear to be a roadmap)

External Threats
-price erosion through multipool dumping (oversupply)
-aggressive, active, highly motivated coin communities

External Opportunities
-many investors, and miners are not loyal so market share can be recaptured
-coin is still in its early stages so possible to hard fork without adverse market reactions (can't go much lower)
-miners "may" migrate toward cooler x11 coins

Many of you crypto-veterans may be more insightful so please add/enhance/clarify. If you can add value, it would help us all come to a consensus. At least it can help us think in a more structured way about Hiro.

[equalizer]

The community can decide what to do with a common understanding of the issues. It is more complex than price. I would recommend we do a SWOT matrix to get on the same page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWOT_analysis

Internal Strengths
- strong and still active development team
- well designed coin with reliable operational track record

Internal Weaknesses
-interfacing with the community/lack of community influence ownership
-coin governance, direction, strategy
-profitable features that address market needs are not being identified (doesn't appear to be a roadmap)
-the marketing and communication of what makes Hirocoin the x11 coin of choice

External Threats
-price erosion through multipool dumping (oversupply)
-aggressive, active, highly motivated coin communities
-new coins promising shiny new features (mostly hype, still a distraction)

External Opportunities
-many investors, and miners are not loyal so market share can be recaptured
-coin is still in its early stages so possible to hard fork without adverse market reactions (can't go much lower)
-miners "may" migrate toward cooler x11 coins

Many of you crypto-veterans may be more insightful so please add/enhance/clarify. If you can add value, it would help us all come to a consensus. At least it can help us think in a more structured way about Hiro.

This is great. I agree - it's much more than the coin price, but the price is a good indicator of the coin's health. It's a symptom of the larger problem, and what you did here will be helpful in identifying where the gaps and redundancies are, as well as (hopefully) allow us to gain consensus on what is not working/what needs to change.

[coinlighter]

The community can decide what to do with a common understanding of the issues. It is more complex than price. I would recommend we do a SWOT matrix to get on the same page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWOT_analysis

Internal Strengths
- strong and still active development team
- well designed coin with reliable operational track record

Internal Weaknesses
-interfacing with the community/lack of community influence ownership
-coin governance, direction, strategy
-profitable features that address market needs are not being identified (doesn't appear to be a roadmap)
-the marketing and communication of what makes Hirocoin the x11 coin of choice

External Threats
-price erosion through multipool dumping (oversupply)
-aggressive, active, highly motivated coin communities
-new coins promising shiny new features (mostly hype, still a distraction)

External Opportunities
-many investors, and miners are not loyal so market share can be recaptured
-coin is still in its early stages so possible to hard fork without adverse market reactions (can't go much lower)
-miners "may" migrate toward cooler x11 coins

Many of you crypto-veterans may be more insightful so please add/enhance/clarify. If you can add value, it would help us all come to a consensus. At least it can help us think in a more structured way about Hiro.

This is great. I agree - it's much more than the coin price, but the price is a good indicator of the coin's health. It's a symptom of the larger problem, and what you did here will be helpful in identifying where the gaps and redundancies are, as well as (hopefully) allow us to gain consensus on what is not working/what needs to change.

I agree with this list.
Of course it's not only the price. it's a volume that brings attention to the coin backed by strong(large) community and good developer team.
We have a good developer team nevertheless unwilling to hear the voice of the community but I hope the common sense will prevail.

[Enzwell]

I'm a little surprised that the fact that the Hirocoin dev is working on Darkcoin development with Evan hasn't helped to at least support the price and rep of Hiro. He's obviously a quality programmer and worker.

And I don't think that altering your approach to a goal is a bad thing. "Lessons learned" and all...

[crazyivan]

Hiro slowly going down is PRIMARILY due to Hiro team stubbornly refusing to accommodate suggestions of the community, mainly those related to the number of coins in existence. So be it, I will be selling all of my coins and I am out.

[oknast]

Hiro slowly going down is PRIMARILY due to Hiro team stubbornly refusing to accommodate suggestions of the community, mainly those related to the number of coins in existence. So be it, I will be selling all of my coins and I am out.

I will wait a week and then will sell all my Hiros, too.

[coinlighter]

Hiro slowly going down is PRIMARILY due to Hiro team stubbornly refusing to accommodate suggestions of the community, mainly those related to the number of coins in existence. So be it, I will be selling all of my coins and I am out.

I will wait a week and then will sell all my Hiros, too.

I will also wait a week or 2 and then I'm out too.
If the devs change their minds Hiro can be one of the most promising coins out there.

[equalizer]

It's pretty clear that the Joerii/Hirocoin team's ways aren't working - they haven't worked for a while. You guys are getting a vote of no confidence by the few people who even bother looking at this thread.

The question is, are you going to disappear, or are you going to man up, admit you were wrong and fix this?

[OmarGsPools]

The SWOT analysis brings up some good points. Rest assured that we are reading these comments and changes will be made to the ongoing development of Hirocoin.

I know that is a vague statement but I'll be able to go into more detail shortly.

[equalizer]

The SWOT analysis brings up some good points. Rest assured that we are reading these comments and changes will be made to the ongoing development of Hirocoin.

I know that is a vague statement but I'll be able to go into more detail shortly.

Thank you!!

[124C41]

We're going to need new wallets again.

There are new OpenSSL bugs that have been patched.

OpenSSL Security Advisory [05 Jun 2014]
http://www.openssl.org/news/secadv_20140605.txt

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/06/05/openssl_bug_batch/
http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/05/openssl-bug-man-in-the-middle/

[coinlighter]

The SWOT analysis brings up some good points. Rest assured that we are reading these comments and changes will be made to the ongoing development of Hirocoin.

I know that is a vague statement but I'll be able to go into more detail shortly.

Thank you for responding.
I will buy more Hiro just in case  

[Joerii]

Hi everyone,

I've been leading the Hirocoin community for a couple of months now. I've enjoyed it a lot and have learned new skills and sharpened existing ones.
My goal from the start was this: to organize a team and manage the community in such a way to make myself redundant as fast as possible. I always try to surround myself with people more skilled and more intelligent than myself.

For what feels like years, I've worked hard to set goals and objectives and keep everyone informed about what's going on. I've received a lot of really nice messages from supporters, as well as good feedback from even the most cynical troll 

Goodbye friends ! It's time for me to move on.

Omar has taken over my role as community manager. It's not an easy job, and I wish him goodluck

[Joerii]

The question is, are you going to disappear, or are you going to man up, admit you were wrong and fix this?

Hmm, Ok i'll  bite. One last time

I have an ethical compass that I follow. There is no such thing as "a little bit wrong" or "a little bit unethical" - "when your head is underwater, you drown". Im not changing my view of right and wrong because people ask me too.

The "fix" that a vocal minority ( and their sockpuppets ) keeps proposing is NOT a fix, messing with the inflation model is a short term bandaid that is going to cause more harm then good. Do some homework and look at other coins who have done this. Where are they now ? Nobody trusts them.  It's motivated by fear and greed, not wisdom. I rest my case.

If there truly was a majority of investors/speculators who wanted that and demanded it, I would have resigned from the team because of that.

Hiros are smarter than that though, and it's not the reason I'm handing over management of the forums and PR to Omar.

The simple reason that Hirocoin price is low is twofold : other coins are stealing the limelight because they are new and exciting, and altcoins have been in a decline for a while now. Simple as that. Every coin faces this. When BTC reaches it's peak and subsequently starts dropping,promising altcoins are going to go up, Hirocoin included. You may quote me on that.

Hirocoin either takes back it's place in the limelight or wait for more attention for altcoins in general.

[fedmahnkassad]

The question is, are you going to disappear, or are you going to man up, admit you were wrong and fix this?

Hmm, Ok i'll  bite. One last time

I have an ethical compass that I follow. There is no such thing as "a little bit wrong" or "a little bit unethical" - "when your head is underwater, you drown". Im not changing my view of right and wrong because people ask me too.

The "fix" that a vocal minority ( and their sockpuppets ) keeps proposing is NOT a fix, messing with the inflation model is a short term bandaid that is going to cause more harm then good. Do some homework and look at other coins who have done this. Where are they now ? Nobody trusts them.  It's motivated by fear and greed, not wisdom. I rest my case.

If there truly was a majority of investors/speculators who wanted that and demanded it, I would have resigned from the team because of that.

Hiros are smarter than that though, and it's not the reason I'm handing over management of the forums and PR to Omar.

The simple reason that Hirocoin price is low is twofold : other coins are stealing the limelight because they are new and exciting, and altcoins have been in a decline for a while now. Simple as that. Every coin faces this. When BTC reaches it's peak and subsequently starts dropping,promising altcoins are going to go up, Hirocoin included. You may quote me on that.

Hirocoin either takes back it's place in the limelight or wait for more attention for altcoins in general.

You might have to wait a little bit before BTC reaches it's peak, like 7+ years or more if ever.