Taxless society idea

[error08]

The only problem with the idea is there is no way of any government in the world that could rely on cryptocurrency which they do not control like mentioned. For them, it's better to create their own digital cryptocurrency or digital fiat currency on the blockchain.

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[DaftAjax]

But what I really want to point out is that, however rich people "dodge" tax by hiring tax-lawyers, managers and such--in the end they will still pay taxes, but as both of you mention, they will find a way just to reduce the amount they ought to pay, which is, the majority of people would say is unjust/unfair

In today's world this "reduction" can easily turn negative

And you heard it right, and I'm not kidding. First of all, global corporations can easily earn money in one place and pay taxes in a completely different one, different as in another country on a different continent. See where I'm getting at? In this fashion, the reduction is not about paying less as it is more about not paying anything at all in the given jurisdiction. The financial papers will only show losses according to local law

Further, this approach lets you not only evade taxes but actually ask for subsidies from the local government as you can hide your real income in another jurisdiction and show losses in the one where you find it instrumental for your business. This is a real thing and an annoying problem with multinational corporations. As you can see, they can easily turn from cash cows into vampires by sucking blood from national economies

I already know this was possible but didn't know that it is actually happening and that it exceeds what I've always known. In the end, tax laws weren't fair at all(well, I guess it's not fair from the very beginning). I actually thought that corporations/companies contribute much more to the economy(at least for international corporations/companies), I guess they only contribute what their products/services could provide. But isn't this also an example of money-laundering(with respect to tax that is)?

[deisik]

But what I really want to point out is that, however rich people "dodge" tax by hiring tax-lawyers, managers and such--in the end they will still pay taxes, but as both of you mention, they will find a way just to reduce the amount they ought to pay, which is, the majority of people would say is unjust/unfair

In today's world this "reduction" can easily turn negative

And you heard it right, and I'm not kidding. First of all, global corporations can easily earn money in one place and pay taxes in a completely different one, different as in another country on a different continent. See where I'm getting at? In this fashion, the reduction is not about paying less as it is more about not paying anything at all in the given jurisdiction. The financial papers will only show losses according to local law

Further, this approach lets you not only evade taxes but actually ask for subsidies from the local government as you can hide your real income in another jurisdiction and show losses in the one where you find it instrumental for your business. This is a real thing and an annoying problem with multinational corporations. As you can see, they can easily turn from cash cows into vampires by sucking blood from national economies

I already know this was possible but didn't know that it is actually happening and that it exceeds what I've always known. In the end, tax laws weren't fair at all(well, I guess it's not fair from the very beginning). I actually thought that corporations/companies contribute much more to the economy(at least for international corporations/companies), I guess they only contribute what their products/services could provide. But isn't this also an example of money-laundering(with respect to tax that is)?

Well, technically, they don't do anything illegal

At least, not until they get caught and found guilty in the court of law. These corporations (for example, so-called Big Pharma) can hire the best tax lawyers (or just best lawyers in general), and since it is assumed (and rightfully, I must add) that governments are not very efficient and effective overall (apart from being hostile to each other, which severely complicates things for them), we can plausibly expect the corporations to be a few steps ahead of any effort to bring them to justice, so to speak. If they can change whole governments in some countries, the question of money laundering becomes kinda irrelevant since who is to define what is money laundering and what is not?

[xSkylarx]

The only problem with the idea is there is no way of any government in the world that could rely on cryptocurrency which they do not control like mentioned. For them, it's better to create their own digital cryptocurrency or digital fiat currency on the blockchain.

I think having no tax is a problem, taxes are being used and spent in many ways, such as making an infrastructure, providing free education and healthcare and many more, if tax will be remove I dont know where the funds will might be get. Tax is essential for a country development. Laws can legal cryptocurrency but I think with tax also, government funds are based on how much they get in taxes.

[meliodas]

The only problem with the idea is there is no way of any government in the world that could rely on cryptocurrency which they do not control like mentioned. For them, it's better to create their own digital cryptocurrency or digital fiat currency on the blockchain.

I think having no tax is a problem, taxes are being used and spent in many ways, such as making an infrastructure, providing free education and healthcare and many more, if tax will be remove I dont know where the funds will might be get. Tax is essential for a country development. Laws can legal cryptocurrency but I think with tax also, government funds are based on how much they get in taxes.

I agree. Tax is a must in every country because that is how one country will progress overtime. It is true that there will be also a tax for the cryptocurrency and we are just waiting for the regulation of the government. If there is no tax then we will be left behind by the advancement of the technology and our world will be still be poor.

[bitzizzix]

The only problem with the idea is there is no way of any government in the world that could rely on cryptocurrency which they do not control like mentioned. For them, it's better to create their own digital cryptocurrency or digital fiat currency on the blockchain.

I think having no tax is a problem, taxes are being used and spent in many ways, such as making an infrastructure, providing free education and healthcare and many more, if tax will be remove I dont know where the funds will might be get. Tax is essential for a country development. Laws can legal cryptocurrency but I think with tax also, government funds are based on how much they get in taxes.

I agree. Tax is a must in every country because that is how one country will progress overtime. It is true that there will be also a tax for the cryptocurrency and we are just waiting for the regulation of the government. If there is no tax then we will be left behind by the advancement of the technology and our world will be still be poor.

In my opinion tax is a mandatory right and for the benefit of the people and for the progress of the country,
and if Cryptocurrency will be taxed it must be in a legalized position.
and I will obediently pay taxes because everything aims at the progress and interests of the country so that it develops well in technology.

[Eugenar]

I think the idea of no tax is very lucrative for all countries because people do not need to give money anymore to the government and do not need to pay wealth tax, but I think if the country does not have tax payments then the country cannot develop, usually money from taxes will be used for development the country.

Basically, what is needed is a precise and regulated tax calculation, most of the time, we think of cryptocurrency and taxes, it is somehow difficult to have our products be sell with tax, but if we can develop an automatic tax calculating system, bitcoin and other cryptocurrency can be attached with tax, so government can still operate with funds needed to create and implement projects that the sole purpose is for the betterment of our selves and community.

[DaftAjax]

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Well, technically, they don't do anything illegal

At least, not until they get caught and found guilty in the court of law. These corporations (for example, so-called Big Pharma) can hire the best tax lawyers (or just best lawyers in general), and since it is assumed (and rightfully, I must add) that governments are not very efficient and effective overall (apart from being hostile to each other, which severely complicates things for them), we can plausibly expect the corporations to be a few steps ahead of any effort to bring them to justice, so to speak. If they can change whole governments in some countries, the question of money laundering becomes kinda irrelevant since who is to define what is money laundering and what is not?

So who is to blame, the government? the corporations? or the law?

How ironic that just because lawyers know how the laws work on different countries, they can easily twist the law between their fingers, and to make it worse, it's their profession-- a lawyer. I just can't believe that this is happening right now. I understand that they want to make money (revenue) and make their investors smile and all that jazz, but isn't that just going to worsen the economy of a country (assuming all corporations actually do this)? Sure they provide jobs/services/products but if their entire goal is to just keep on making more money--that's just straight up capitalism.

[deisik]

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Well, technically, they don't do anything illegal

At least, not until they get caught and found guilty in the court of law. These corporations (for example, so-called Big Pharma) can hire the best tax lawyers (or just best lawyers in general), and since it is assumed (and rightfully, I must add) that governments are not very efficient and effective overall (apart from being hostile to each other, which severely complicates things for them), we can plausibly expect the corporations to be a few steps ahead of any effort to bring them to justice, so to speak. If they can change whole governments in some countries, the question of money laundering becomes kinda irrelevant since who is to define what is money laundering and what is not?

So who is to blame, the government? the corporations? or the law?

Let's just admit that it is a very complex and hard to tackle problem. To keep things more specific, let's consider a real-life example which repeats itself in many countries with astonishing regularity. A big multinational retail corporation operating a chain of hypermarkets (think Walmart here) comes to town one day. Since it is huge, has a lot of suppliers in different parts of the world and highly efficient logistics, it can make prices very cheap and still book profits for itself (not even speaking of deliberate dumping)

Obviously, the local stores are quickly forced out of business, and people living in this town who were somehow involved in these small businesses, that is almost every adult there, are now jobless. So whose fault is this? People want to buy better and cheaper goods, which is understandable. But by doing that they are effectively destroying their local economy since the money that the Walmart-like retailer receives goes elsewhere and doesn't get reinvested locally simply because it makes no economic sense

And it works in essentially the same way on a country as well as international level

[BChydro]

In my opinion tax is a mandatory right and for the benefit of the people and for the progress of the country

What happens if it is a corrupted country and why is there much progress in third world countries, people not paying their taxes  .

and if Cryptocurrency will be taxed it must be in a legalized position.

Even if it is not legalized you have to pay your taxes if you are earning the profits according to the rule of the land.

and I will obediently pay taxes because everything aims at the progress and interests of the country so that it develops well in technology.

I highly doubt that all the tax money is used for the progress and development of a country. The amount of money wasted in warfare is far higher and the debt the nation holds because of these will be higher than serving and uplifting every citizen and it is the same everywhere.

[DaftAjax]

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And it works in essentially the same way on a country as well as international level

So everyone has a part on it, I guess we can't point fingers on just one. As you said, it is a very complex problem to tackle--indeed it is, yet to even have a solution.

Well, guess what, a somewhat the same situation happened here in my area. A company (so-called PureGold, a large grocery store) just had a branch here like 2 years ago. But what they did was, the building they are currently on was the same building that a local grocery store was occupied. They "bought" the place. That local store doesn't really have expensive items, in fact, a lot of locals buy there. But when this company bought the place it was renovated (to their company design), then they had an "opening" of some sort and had lots of discounts. The store was very alive, the items were even cheaper (even after the discount event), heck even people from other towns go there now. And as you said, since they're so big, they have a lot of suppliers and a very efficient logistics. So now, other grocery stores are a bit endangered, well they still have (old) customers but newcomers(?), I don't think so. It was like, it's the only large grocery store in the area.

AFAIK, isn't competition good for the economy?

[deisik]

Well, guess what, a somewhat the same situation happened here in my area

It's not surprising at all

I've seen that same situation repeat itself countless times in different places. Small stores and shops can only survive if they can offer some unique product or service. In my place many such stores had been closed a few years ago after big retailers showed up in the area

And it is not just about groceries as almost every industry gets severely affected in this manner. It is the same not only on the local level, but on the regional and national levels as well as previously successful companies are now unable to compete with multinational corporations going to smaller regional markets

AFAIK, isn't competition good for the economy?

I wouldn't call that competition as to me it looks more the "slaughter of the innocents" and weeding out all possible competition (what monopolies habitually do all the time)

[DaftAjax]

Small stores and shops can only survive if they can offer some unique product or service.

That's a thing with our society now, they feed mostly on what is unique--new things. But it does not last long as after months or years they move on to other things, well, (normally) people will never be satisfied. Another thing is that whenever bigger companies saw something unique that sells very well they will do anything in their power to buy it or rather take over its ownership.

And it is not just about groceries as almost every industry gets severely affected in this manner. It is the same not only on the local level, but on the regional and national levels as well as previously successful companies are now unable to compete with multinational corporations going to smaller regional markets

I've seen something like this happen. Their solution is either focus only on specific areas and shutdown other branches or spread as much as possible.

I wouldn't call that competition as to me it looks more the "slaughter of the innocents" and weeding out all possible competition (what monopolies habitually do all the time)

A monopoly doesn't help anyone except for themselves.

[tadpole_bitfrog]

How much humanity is developing, however, not a single state has been able to do without taxes. Taxes, as always, are sorely lacking to cover social needs and this periodically leads to shocks in almost all states.
The proposed measures are very difficult to understand, but in any case, they are not suitable for building a tax-free society. The advent of cryptocurrency will also not be able to solve this problem. Taxes are necessary in any society.

I agree with your point of view that no society can exist without taxes, which is very unlikely, because it will make it difficult for the government to solve domestic problems, cryptocurrencies up to this point, it is growing and expanding but it still cannot replace flat money or create a tax-free society.

[tambok]

How much humanity is developing, however, not a single state has been able to do without taxes. Taxes, as always, are sorely lacking to cover social needs and this periodically leads to shocks in almost all states.
The proposed measures are very difficult to understand, but in any case, they are not suitable for building a tax-free society. The advent of cryptocurrency will also not be able to solve this problem. Taxes are necessary in any society.

I agree with your point of view that no society can exist without taxes, which is very unlikely, because it will make it difficult for the government to solve domestic problems, cryptocurrencies up to this point, it is growing and expanding but it still cannot replace flat money or create a tax-free society.

I am not in favor with tax that they are imposing too expensive tax but I understand that we need it. We need tax in our government for us to be able to secure our country, health, and to have unity, if there is no tax, how can we be able to pay government officials, if there is no official appointed then we will have a poor country and we'll have financial crisis.

[mdgabrielzim]

I think the idea is valid but in my view taxes are a necessary evil for the welfare of society. Unfortunately today a lot of mismanagement and amateurism in managing this money.

[inanilujimi]

did you know that the tax you pay to the government is useful to facilitate our activities and our daily lives.
tax is the spirit of a country, not a tax that is eliminated but corruptors or incompetent officials are eliminated.

[Duzter]

I think the idea is valid but in my view taxes are a necessary evil for the welfare of society. Unfortunately today a lot of mismanagement and amateurism in managing this money.

What's been mentioned is all about the need and the errors that cause the taxation go entirely wrong and not beneficial to the common people. Very few countries does the taxation in a perfect way keeping the common people in mind. Through our blockchain technology the taxless society idea can be made to be effective and functional. For this the benefits needs to be directly send to the people eliminating the intermediary governments who just eat up everything.

[DaftAjax]

did you know that the tax you pay to the government is useful to facilitate our activities and our daily lives.
tax is the spirit of a country, not a tax that is eliminated but corruptors or incompetent officials are eliminated.

I don't know where are you getting on about this. Tax is the spirit of a country? Are you serious? People are the spirit of a country, don't forget that.

And yes it is (supposedly) being used to facilitate, but not our activities and our daily lives entirely, even without facilitation, we can go on about our day.

What's been mentioned is all about the need and the errors that cause the taxation go entirely wrong and not beneficial to the common people. Very few countries does the taxation in a perfect way keeping the common people in mind.

Nope! Tax is mandatory, that is why you think that it is the "perfect" way to keep the common people in mind, though there are people who get away with it, by means of manipulating laws and such, by their managers and lawyers that is, and it's completely "legal" (believe it or not).

[sapnu]

did you know that the tax you pay to the government is useful to facilitate our activities and our daily lives.
tax is the spirit of a country, not a tax that is eliminated but corruptors or incompetent officials are eliminated.

If you talk about the local government than it's true. Otherwise, it's not, because an average taxpayer is not affected by things like military budget, space research, other government agencies like the CIA, ETF. On the contrary, the average taxpayer is affected negatively by these agencies stealing their property and putting them in jail for smoking a joint or exercising the right to free speech.

It is really impossible for society to be taxless because as a responsible citizen of a particular country or region, we should pay taxes unless there are no laws that make you dont pay taxes. But I think there are no government that has no law about taxes because taxes is what they need to produce or build particular project like infrastructure and any other building or project that is helpful to its citizens. But in terms of cryptocurrency, I think the government cannot do that because since cryptocurrency is decentralized they do not know who to give taxes, they can do that in banks.