GridSeed 5-chip USB miner voltage mod

[RowanX]

Thanks guys, I hadn't been googling for "Non-Electricity Conductive", I didn't know the terminology until your latest posts.

[volum4]

arctic mx4? i'm afraid your just wasting your money and time by buying high-end thermal paste, messing with expensive cables etc. you're just pushing your theoretical roi further. although, most likely you never meet ROI using these fish cans anyway.. do it just for fun if you feel you need to. 

[usao]

Profit and Loss

Looking at my Gridseeds and wondering if I should mod the hardware, and if so by how much, it seemed to me that the alarming increase in power usage as clock speed increases might have undesirable effects on the profitability. So I decided to get out my calculator. The results below are based on some tests performed by myself on the latest version of the Gridseed 5 chip module (the one with surface mount LED's). I modified one by changing R52 to 39k and another by changing R52 to 47K. The modules all had the 5V fan mod and were clocked at 850MHz, 1000MHz and 1200MHz, these values were chosen as the maximum which gave zero (or close to it) errors. The power cost is calculated from what I pay at about $0.20/KWHour and the modules using 4W, 15W and 25W. All figures relate to one Gridseed module running for one day and based on a bitcoin value of $460. Earnings figures are based upon a return of 0.004386 BTC/MHash/day.

R52	Power Cost	Earns Today	Profit Today	Earns Month 2	Profit Month 2	Earns Month 3	Profit Month 3
33k(standard)	$0.019	$0.72	$0.701	$0.36	$0.341	$0.18	$0.161
39k	$0.072	$0.857	$0.785	$0.4285	$0.3565	$0.21425	$0.14225
47k	$0.12	$1.029	$0.909	$0.5145	$0.3945	$0.25725	$0.13725

So assuming that the income from mining halves each month (seems likely it will) we can see that in just 2 or 3 months time it will be best to have unmodified Gridseeds.
I must emphasise that these figures are far from definitive and should only be viewed as a rough estimate. Your modules might give different results and your power cost is probably different from mine.
Overall I think my best bet is to leave mine standard with no fans at all rather than go to all the trouble of modding them only to have to put them back in a month or two.

Almost precisely the reason why I reverted my mods back to default without fans (except for a single 120mm fan running at 5v cooling 14 GS).

My simple reasoning was this. Why would I make the mod to double the hashrate when it quadruples the power consumption? Which produces more heat requiring the need for more cooling?

I admit, the mod is a great endeavor if the cost of power is factored out of the equation, ie gamers with their graphics cards.  Those gamers push for more gpu cycles irregardless of power costs.

Did some thinking about this, and think there is some room for interpretation of the results.
Some points of interest,
Im paying only $0.10/KWH where I live (Arizona). I know rates vary all over the US as well as internationally, so the degree to which the wattage increase will affect you strongly depend on those local rates.
Im a bit concerned about the difficulty factors as well. For sure, no-one knows what will happen with difficulty, which is why this is open to large-scale debate. I won't presume to fault your numbers, but I want to offer an alternative viewpoint (which may be wrong, I admit).
My feeling is that the GSD devices don't offer a significant change in the overall hashrate compared to GPU's. They are in the same ballpark for hash-rate, as well as price/KHs. At-least roughly speaking. I mean that from the perspective of GSD at around 0.4 $/KHs and GPUs in the 1-2 $/KHs.
So, from my point of view, I don't expect to see any radical change in the global hashrate in the NEAR future due to the GSD marketplace.
That said, when some of the "second-generation" ASIC's hit the market later this summer (Fibonacci, KNC, Alpha, etc), those do offer the potential for a significant increase in the global hash-rate. It's when those ASICs hit the market that I would expect to see the difficulty start to spike.
I also know it's imossible to predict the future with any accuracy, so I would like to offer this alternative viewpoint on the difficult factors...
From Jan-now, LTC went from a difficulty around 3K to around 6K. If you divide that into the number of difficulty adjustments which occured, you find the average difficulty increase for 2014 (so-far) has been about 2.3% per increment. Im hoping this trend continues untill around July-Aug when the next-gen ASICs hit the market at which point it will spike much quicker (in my opinion).
That said, I think we have a window of time untill July to try and recoup as much as possible from the GSDs. After that, the chances of any ROI will dwindle rapidly.
Anyhow, just my opinion

[wolfey2014]

Profit and Loss

Looking at my Gridseeds and wondering if I should mod the hardware, and if so by how much, it seemed to me that the alarming increase in power usage as clock speed increases might have undesirable effects on the profitability. So I decided to get out my calculator. The results below are based on some tests performed by myself on the latest version of the Gridseed 5 chip module (the one with surface mount LED's). I modified one by changing R52 to 39k and another by changing R52 to 47K. The modules all had the 5V fan mod and were clocked at 850MHz, 1000MHz and 1200MHz, these values were chosen as the maximum which gave zero (or close to it) errors. The power cost is calculated from what I pay at about $0.20/KWHour and the modules using 4W, 15W and 25W. All figures relate to one Gridseed module running for one day and based on a bitcoin value of $460. Earnings figures are based upon a return of 0.004386 BTC/MHash/day.

R52	Power Cost	Earns Today	Profit Today	Earns Month 2	Profit Month 2	Earns Month 3	Profit Month 3
33k(standard)	$0.019	$0.72	$0.701	$0.36	$0.341	$0.18	$0.161
39k	$0.072	$0.857	$0.785	$0.4285	$0.3565	$0.21425	$0.14225
47k	$0.12	$1.029	$0.909	$0.5145	$0.3945	$0.25725	$0.13725

So assuming that the income from mining halves each month (seems likely it will) we can see that in just 2 or 3 months time it will be best to have unmodified Gridseeds.
I must emphasize that these figures are far from definitive and should only be viewed as a rough estimate. Your modules might give different results and your power cost is probably different from mine.
Overall I think my best bet is to leave mine standard with no fans at all rather than go to all the trouble of modding them only to have to put them back in a month or two.

This isn't even worth quoting much less commenting on! But, before anyone goes throwing their miner's out the window, here's my take on the above.

*Fact: Most folks pay .10 per KWh, not .20!
*Fact: I pay NOTHING extra for my added KW usage! So my extra hashes ARE indeed extra $profitable!$
*Fact: Bitcoin difficulty has not been halving 2X per month!
*Fact: On average, difficulty has been incrementing at ONLY around 2.3% on average! (Jan '14 - to current)
*Postulate: Second generation ASICs coming out in Q2/Q3 will have a significant impact on the value of our beloved Gridseeds by causing their price per unit to drop significantly meaning their actual profit value will increase several times which will make our mods and modded units even more profitable! That is, it will make our investment in modifications even more valuable than it is right now!
*Fact: There is plenty of time to recoup the investment in over-volting / overclocking due to the fact that ROI is - in most cases - only a matter of days i.e. less than 1 month!

I feel sorry for anyone having to pay .20 per KWh and I know some in other countries are paying upwards of .75 per KWh! Wow! One can hardly compete much less profit under conditions like that!

So, do not let the merchants of chaos and fear mongers / market manipulators talk you out of your due profits and profitability!
The modification IS profitable. The modification IS harmless. And for most folks, the modification will always be an improvement over stock! Always!

Oh and one other point. If you're going to mine crypto-coins, go at it with long term investment in mind, years, not short term and certainly not on a quarterly basis. Bitcoin is not going anywhere. It's here to stay. So is the entire crypto-currency market! It's here to stay! Don't let short sightedness hinder or stop you from progressing, from risking and especially from WINNING PROFIT$!

[volum4]

@wolfey2014

Did you forget to say 'Amen'?

[amix]

*bump* So much talk of thermal paste and still no one here can recommend one? cond

p.s. sorry to bump.

artic cooling mx4 - use it for my cpu gpu basically everything, also comes in 20g good if youve got a lot to sipply thermal paste to. its cermic thermal compound so non conductive. probably one of the best, if no the best cermic thermal compund youll get. dering

EDIT : and yes maybve a bit overkill for the grim idseed chips , if it where only thoose BUT there is also the voltage regulators at overclocking with be pushing more through thoose and they can get pretty hot. WE need to consider keeping all these parts cool not just the chips - appears they dont get too hot themselves, but the surrending parts can - im assuming i not taken any temperture measures or touched them. anyone got an IR thermo they can check the temps on the parts??

[usao]

*bump* So much talk of thermal paste and still no one here can recommend one? (??)

p.s. sorry to bump.

artic cooling mx4 - use it for my cpu gpu basically everything, also comes in 20g good if youve got a lot to apply thermal paste to. its cermic thermal compound so non conductive. probably one of the best, if no the best cermic thermal compund youll get.

Im no electronics expert, but wouldn't any paste sold for CPU coolers work for the GSD's as well? It's probably overkill, but there are tonnes of them on the market so lots of price competition...
Only thing I wonder about is the thermal pad used on the GSDs from the factory implies there is a bit of spacing between the chips and the heatsink... The pad is much thicker than the sheen normally used when applying paste to cpu heatsinks.

[amix]

*bump* So much talk of thermal paste and still no one here can recommend one? (??)

p.s. sorry to bump.

artic cooling mx4 - use it for my cpu gpu basically everything, also comes in 20g good if youve got a lot to apply thermal paste to. its cermic thermal compound so non conductive. probably one of the best, if no the best cermic thermal compund youll get.

Im no electronics expert, but wouldn't any paste sold for CPU coolers work for the GSD's as well? It's probably overkill, but there are tonnes of them on the market so lots of price competition...
Only thing I wonder about is the thermal pad used on the GSDs from the factory implies there is a bit of spacing between the chips and the heatsink... The pad is much thicker than the sheen normally used when applying paste to cpu heatsinks.

For the grid chips yeah AS LONG AS ITS NOT METALLIC, ie not artic silver - artic cooling MX4 is not the same not even the same company. easliy confusing. The pads are cheap and not very good the stock ones, just be awre that if you go the route of the thermal paste there are serval exposed contacts points on the back of the board - on is for the rest switch,. So if you not using thermal pads apply some electric tape over the points before to prevent a short circuit. Also if your applying any to the surface of the chips also bear in mind that some of the surronding compoents are very near to the high limit of the chips, so again short circuit is possible especailly if you over tighten. if you want to use paste on the thermal vias, go for it but i think its a better option to use thermal pads on the chips - if you putting the whole heatsink back  together. if you worried about air pockets apply some paste to the chips and the heat sink. overkill but itll should help to remove airpockets while help to avoid a short circuit from the heatsink, also offers a bit tiny bit, of protection to the other componets near the chip if you overtighten a bit.
Choice is yours, both have there ups and downs, the paste is better thermal properties but it can be messy. pads are neater and easier to work with.

[usao]

*bump* So much talk of thermal paste and still no one here can recommend one? (??)

p.s. sorry to bump.

artic cooling mx4 - use it for my cpu gpu basically everything, also comes in 20g good if youve got a lot to apply thermal paste to. its cermic thermal compound so non conductive. probably one of the best, if no the best cermic thermal compund youll get.

Im no electronics expert, but wouldn't any paste sold for CPU coolers work for the GSD's as well? It's probably overkill, but there are tonnes of them on the market so lots of price competition...
Only thing I wonder about is the thermal pad used on the GSDs from the factory implies there is a bit of spacing between the chips and the heatsink... The pad is much thicker than the sheen normally used when applying paste to cpu heatsinks.

For the grid chips yeah AS LONG AS ITS NOT METALLIC, ie not artic silver - artic cooling MX4 is not the same not even the same company. easliy confusing. The pads are cheap and not very good the stock ones, just be awre that if you go the route of the thermal paste there are serval exposed contacts points on the back of the board - on is for the rest switch,. So if you not using thermal pads apply some electric tape over the points before to prevent a short circuit. Also if your applying any to the surface of the chips also bear in mind that some of the surronding compoents are very near to the high limit of the chips, so again short circuit is possible especailly if you over tighten. if you want to use paste on the thermal vias, go for it but i think its a better option to use thermal pads on the chips - if you putting the whole heatsink back  together. if you worried about air pockets apply some paste to the chips and the heat sink. overkill but itll should help to remove airpockets while help to avoid a short circuit from the heatsink, also offers a bit tiny bit, of protection to the other componets near the chip if you overtighten a bit.
Choice is yours, both have there ups and downs, the paste is better thermal properties but it can be messy. pads are neater and easier to work with.

I thought all those CPU pastes were non-conductive by default, am I wrong on that point?
Oh well, wouldn't be the first time 

[bruiser]

Just a heads up to anyone considering Wolfey2014's services:

I asked about him modifying 220 Gridseed units. Things seemed okay but he balked at my request to use an escrow service (red flag to me after almost 3 years on these forums and involved with crypto). He is also very pushy and wanted to do the deal right now today--which I had twice previously told him wasn't going to happen today. His responses then devolved into using profanity and then calling me "stupid" because of my distrust and dislike of Paypal.

Overall I don't believe he intended to rip me off (maybe I'm just too cynical in regards to online transactions)--but I'm sure anyone can understand my wanting protection before sending some stranger on the forums $40k worth of brand new mining gear + $8,800 cash to do the mods and hoping they send it back on-time as described. I just wanted to put this out there as a potential warning for others. If anything, you can at least see how quickly his "friendly" persona erodes as soon as you question protection for the transaction or the deal specifics.

[usao]

Just a heads up to anyone considering Wolfey2014's services:

I asked about him modifying 220 Gridseed units. Things seemed okay but he balked at my request to use an escrow service (red flag to me after almost 3 years on these forums and involved with crypto). He is also very pushy and wanted to do the deal right now today--which I had twice previously told him wasn't going to happen today. His responses then devolved into using profanity and then calling me "stupid" because of my distrust and dislike of Paypal.

Overall I don't believe he intended to rip me off (maybe I'm just too cynical in regards to online transactions)--but I'm sure anyone can understand my wanting protection before sending some stranger on the forums $40k worth of brand new mining gear + $8,800 cash to do the mods and hoping they send it back on-time as described. I just wanted to put this out there as a potential warning for others. If anything, you can at least see how quickly his "friendly" persona erodes as soon as you question protection for the transaction or the deal specifics.

I can comment on this as a customer of his.
Yes, he's very out-spoken. That's not a bad thing, it means he strongly believes what he's doing is good.
I sent him a batch of 10 miners to get the mods, fully knowing it was a risk as you mentioned.
Since I have made the payments, he's been quite honest and reasonable person. Ive seen posts of his work and it's much better than I could EVER do.
My 10 miners are due back from FedEx on Thursday, and im planning a week-long side-by-side test of the modded vs un-modded units, using the same pool.

[david123]

Does anyone know a Raspberry Pi Image supporting frequencies of 1000+?

Currently I run Hashra Controla, which lets me select core frequency up to 900. Sure,
I can ssh and just download&compile a suitable version of cgminer, but maybe it's not necessary
to reinvent the wheel..

A bit OT here.. but..The latest Controla interface support frequencies up to 1300 MHz. Just use Controla update link.

Right, it was a bit OT, and thanks for answering anyways. It works fine now, I must have missed that update button somehow

[bruiser]

I can comment on this as a customer of his.
Yes, he's very out-spoken. That's not a bad thing, it means he strongly believes what he's doing is good.
I sent him a batch of 10 miners to get the mods, fully knowing it was a risk as you mentioned.
Since I have made the payments, he's been quite honest and reasonable person. Ive seen posts of his work and it's much better than I could EVER do.
My 10 miners are due back from FedEx on Thursday, and im planning a week-long side-by-side test of the modded vs un-modded units, using the same pool.

I don't think I agree with the outspoken means believing in doing good. If I go bid a customer's kitchen remodel for $10k and start swearing at them, I highly doubt they will see it as "passionate". I guess I just expected a slightly different response over $8,800 worth of labor, and figured it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for me to expect protection on almost $50,000 risked between payment and hardware. As soon as someone starts throwing around f-bombs and calling me stupid for asking questions and wanting escrow instead of paypal for an $8,800 purchase I tend to see things differently. You sent him 10 miners, I was looking to send 220 miners. I'm just not willing to risk 220 miners without something more than someone's word. Like I said, I've probably been jaded by being on these forums and involved with crypto so long but it seems every time (unless escrow is involved) you get ripped off or the delivery ends up taking significantly longer than expected. I was pretty certain he was not going to rip me off, but I do believe his customer service is severely lacking and not representative of someone who is charging quite a premium to solder on a resistor onto a PCB. For me, personally, I just needed more security before risking that much and he didn't seem to agree.

Soap opera!
What a childishly spiteful thing to do! People like you do this because they cannot stand on their own merits, their own personal integrity is greatly compromised if not missing completely! You need the agreement of others because you can't be right without it!
You are lying right now to the public in a lame attempt to continue to TRY to be right!
You try to discredit me in that way!
Well, I have news for you. I have customers who like and trust me. We treated each other with respect and didn't play games when it came to getting down to business.
You on the other hand, strung me along for days and even tried to get me to allow some stranger to hold my money until I did all the work, returned your property to you (which I would do honorably and legally anyway) then let you decide if you are going to pay me for it or not?? NO WAY, HOSER!
Doing business via paypal and eBay is totally legitimate and legal. I've been a paypal member for over a decade and NEVER had any trouble dealing with 'good' customers and the couple of times that a buyer or seller tried to commit fraud or some other crime, paypal took care of it and I never lost a penny or, a moment of sleep over it either.
This guy is trying to force me to submit to impossible terms! Terms that put him 100% in control of the money I earn! There is no way I am going to allow that.
Look, risk is part of this business. If you can't handle risk, then you don't belong in this game.
Everyone on here knows I can be a bit 'verbose' but in no way does that make me untrustworthy!
You drew first blood. Live with the consequences and stop bugging everyone else about it! They don't care!

This will be my last response on the topic. I just wanted to inform other users of my experience--that is what this community is for. I've been here long enough and have watched good people get ripped off enough times that I did not want to stand by and just let some other schmo get taken if I had valuable information to share ahead of time which may have saved them. If you plan to advertise in all these threads, expect people to point out your obvious lack in business acumen.

Childishly spiteful? Alright, for an adult over 50 years old you are the one acting like a child. I'm the one trying to send you 220 Gridseeds and $8,800 to do the work. That is more in hardware and cash that a lot of people make in a year. Obviously I'm going to be protective of it. I have not lied about a single thing, I will gladly share any info via PM (so not to clutter this thread up further) for anyone who asks. I've been here along time, I've done many deals, and I've always treated others with respect. I'm glad for your customers.

-Strung you along for "days"? Our first interaction was April 7th aka yesterday. Right, I'm the "liar".
-I asked if you would consider an escrow purchase for the deal. I'm still risking 220 Gridseeds aka $38,500 in hardware on just your word. I just wanted the escrow to be in place to enforce contract deadlines and accuracy. If you planned to return completed Gridseeds to me in a timely manner, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. Yes, of course I am going to release the escrow after I got my units back. I need to make sure it wasn't a box of bricks and to make sure they still turned on. Surprise! The escrow holder would also be a stranger to me. I even told you I would just pick someone from the forums that has a solid reputation and that I would pay the fee--aka you earn more money this way and get to avoid Paypal's ridiculous fees.

If you think being paid for successful completion of your work is "impossible terms" then good luck to your future business endeavors. I'm not "in control" of anything--hence the point of an escrow and why we use escrows for big purchases like, say, a home? All you have to do is live up to what you agreed to and it would have been yours.

I'm not bugging anybody, and believe me I can live with the consequences of exposing why our deal didn't come to fruition.

[amix]

*bump* So much talk of thermal paste and still no one here can recommend one? (??)

p.s. sorry to bump.

artic cooling mx4 - use it for my cpu gpu basically everything, also comes in 20g good if youve got a lot to apply thermal paste to. its cermic thermal compound so non conductive. probably one of the best, if no the best cermic thermal compund youll get.

Im no electronics expert, but wouldn't any paste sold for CPU coolers work for the GSD's as well? It's probably overkill, but there are tonnes of them on the market so lots of price competition...
Only thing I wonder about is the thermal pad used on the GSDs from the factory implies there is a bit of spacing between the chips and the heatsink... The pad is much thicker than the sheen normally used when applying paste to cpu heatsinks.

For the grid chips yeah AS LONG AS ITS NOT METALLIC, ie not artic silver - artic cooling MX4 is not the same not even the same company. easliy confusing. The pads are cheap and not very good the stock ones, just be awre that if you go the route of the thermal paste there are serval exposed contacts points on the back of the board - on is for the rest switch,. So if you not using thermal pads apply some electric tape over the points before to prevent a short circuit. Also if your applying any to the surface of the chips also bear in mind that some of the surronding compoents are very near to the high limit of the chips, so again short circuit is possible especailly if you over tighten. if you want to use paste on the thermal vias, go for it but i think its a better option to use thermal pads on the chips - if you putting the whole heatsink back  together. if you worried about air pockets apply some paste to the chips and the heat sink. overkill but itll should help to remove airpockets while help to avoid a short circuit from the heatsink, also offers a bit tiny bit, of protection to the other componets near the chip if you overtighten a bit.
Choice is yours, both have there ups and downs, the paste is better thermal properties but it can be messy. pads are neater and easier to work with.

I thought all those CPU pastes were non-conductive by default, am I wrong on that point?
Oh well, wouldn't be the first time 

No they arent, a lot are advertisded as being CPU thermal paste but contain metallic silver or Alu, the only one ive used- Artic Silver - says not to use it on your GPU, but doesnt say anythign about your CPU. it recommends not to be used in certain case etc. i was super carefull wiht it, maybe too much. spread too thin kept cutting out. so i applied a piece of tape to the pins on the CPU socket and applied more artic silver to the CPU. CPU dont tend to have as many componets as close to them as GPU do.

[Blisk]

why my miner runs but not mine at all?

[amix]

why my miner runs but not mine at all?

cave collasped and he  lost his shovel


have you set it up right - power working, not just usb, or maybe overclocked it too much?

Check out this guide sure youll find somethign in here. covers pretty much everysetup, hardware and software plus cables etc you could think of.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494625.0

[jamieb81]

So what about a thread of most profitable / best working pool to use with our Gridseeds?

what's working the best for you

[Blisk]

why my miner runs but not mine at all?

cave collasped and he  lost his shovel


have you set it up right - power working, not just usb, or maybe overclocked it too much?

Check out this guide sure youll find somethign in here. covers pretty much everysetup, hardware and software plus cables etc you could think of.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494625.0

thanks will check I have power supply 12W maybe it is not enough, but still when I set on 360 Khash not mining.

[Blisk]

So what about a thread of most profitable / best working pool to use with our Gridseeds?

what's working the best for you

If you asking me, I mine on my pool, 0% fees and PROP payout which is most fair.

[Blisk]

yes power supply must be at least 2A, now works