[Cult of Lauda] An historic peace: Rome’s treaty with Carthage

[truth or dare]

This appears to be a simple case of quickseller/primenumber accepting it must play ball with Laura and his gang. After Laura tagged PN, quickseller then started reversing the pill accusations, toning down the extortion case, and pretty much kissing ass. In return Laura removed the red from pn7 and owlcatz and others started following along.

Red trust bartering.

Both sides were convinced each other were not to be trusted as far as they could throw them only a few weeks back.

Just another clear example of how broken and fake the trust system is.

Make up your mind CH. First you complain about negative feedback being left for invalid reasons and now you are complaining about people removing their 'invalid' feedback.

You lauda, seem to be confusing me with a member that considers any of the red tag removal deals going around in here, and requests for further mutual red tag removals to be concerning invalid tags.

This is more clear manipulation and bartering using the trust system as leverage.

Quicksellout7 humilating himself in public for some signature cents that almost got removed from his new account has broken him. Either that or he finally sold his accounts like nullius appears to have done.

The only solution that corruption and manipulation has reached these levels is to abandon red tagging entirely. Then abuse of the level 1 flag can push that into retirement leaving no room for subjectivity and abuse. 6

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[LoyceV]

QS has returned the bitcoins back to me, as requested by me on mutually agreed upon terms. Here is the relevant portions of the email exchange.

What is the trans ID?

If both parties involved in a trade confirm it's concluded, I see no reason to publish the TXID. This can remain private.

[Lauda]

QS has returned the bitcoins back to me, as requested by me on mutually agreed upon terms. Here is the relevant portions of the email exchange.

What is the trans ID?

If both parties involved in a trade confirm it's concluded, I see no reason to publish the TXID. This can remain private.

I agree, IMO that whole ordeal should be forgiven and needs no further mentioning in this or any other threads.

[nullius]

Quicksellout7 humilating himself in public

Alas, Quickseller, no good deed goes unpunished.

For my part, I found your apology to Lauda to be quite as dignified as such a thing can be, and presumptively sincere, in large part because it was not some apology-culture ritual self-humiliation to fulfill an implied condition of promised forgiveness.

Either that or he finally sold his accounts like nullius appears to have done.

LOL, you “truthfully” daring sockpuppet, you got me!  I sold my account and my PGP private key to somebody who has exactly the same enigmatic personality, inimitable writing style, depth of ideas, and originality of thought as I have.  It was as if I long slept, then awoke in a fantasy world:  A world superior to this one, in which there are two of me!  So, he sent me some big BTC in exchange for my credentials.  I tossed in my longtime friendship with Lauda as a “buy one, get one free” sort of deal.

Signed, nullius’ twin

Are you now claiming that Laura is trustworthy and their account should be red trust free?

What lauda did was wrong, and was a display of poor judgement. With that being said, what happened, happened a long time ago, I have good reason to believe lauda is remorseful for what he did, and to my knowledge he has not made a similar mistake since. I have left the extortion thread unlocked, and it will remain that way provided no trolls bump it to stir up drama.

In addition to being remorseful, Lauda was also punished with the severe consequences of being fired from a prestigious paid job that was probably quite important to her:

You got what you wanted. Lauda is no longer a staff member. You can lock this thread now.

Ouch.

But the admins of this forum must have their reasons for removing Lauda as a staff member, which (unfortunately) I think will never be made public.

You don't think it had something to do with the fact that lauda recently admitted to trying to extort someone?

Indeed, I think it had everything to do with it:  Lauda did something wrong, was punished, and then rapidly regained people’s confidence by remorsefully accepting that, and continuing to otherwise contribute to the community—instead of creating ten thousand whine threads as many of her haters do, “Reeeeeee authoritarian boss theymos fired me from my job—so unfair!!”

(By a comparison of apples and oranges about two very different wrongs, I think that you would have done well to have said,^* “Hey, tspacepilot, if I was going to get busted, at least it was by someone with rigorous forensics instead of reasonable suspicions inflated to ‘compelling evidence’ through armchair guesswork,” and taken whatever practical steps necessary to right wrongs.)

(* To overextend the topic title’s allusion to a point nearing non sequitur, Hannibal and Scipio Africanus mutually agreed that if one of them had to be defeated, at least he would be defeated by the other.  They respected each other with a noble attitude, as if each thought:  If I must fall, let me fall at the hands of the best, who is my equal.  Much though the Romans hated him, Hannibal’s defeat was an historic tragedy.  —Well, I think that I have now passed the point of tragically torturing a noble analogy until it no longer makes any sense.  My apologies to Hannibal.)

Wow

This will hurt the forum.  Lauda was one of the most active staff members.

As a practical matter, the forum’s loss may be my gain.  If I ever start a service dealing with the public, I intend to attempt persuading Lauda to accept the position of holding a large, shiny ban-hammer.  Good help is hard to find, and I need somebody to protect the good people.  Complaints > /dev/null.

I purposely left this thread un-moderated, despite suggestions and warnings from others, so that observers can observe the true nature of people.

Alas, Lauda, no good deed goes unpunished.

This peace is not related to any other disputes, nor did this peace happen in one singular day, nor can it happen unilateral (don't expect my forgiveness to those who (haven't stopped their activities or) run around behind my back and consistently speak ill of me - that is not changing our ways, that is not peace, that is not honesty in peace..).

QFT.  For my part, I may shoot holes in some of the haters later.  Busy now.

[hacker1001101001]

Ok, ignoring all the above bullshit by nullius.

This thread looks as to be proving most of the statements by TECSHARE true.

Most of this reputation fighting and abusing of trust was really based on grudges between some users in power. QS never did a scam which was unforgivable overall, it was only him not willing to bow down or beg for his forgiveness to the powerful users around which made him suffer through I would say, imotional truma for years.

I am not double siding or something, but most of the user's and specially DTs around should use this thread as an example of how a gang of users with power could wrongly phrases an person's overall character on the forum. I just hope this is avoided in the future by learning from this huge mistake and by nurturing a bit of an forgiveness which could save years of wars.

[Lauda]

Most of this reputation fighting and abusing of trust was really based on grudges between some users in power. QS never did a scam which was unforgivable overall, it was only him not willing to bow down or beg for his forgiveness to the powerful users around which made him suffer through I would say, imotional truma for years.

I am not double siding or something, but most of the user's and specially DTs around should use this thread as an example of how a gang of users with power could wrongly phrases an person's overall character on the forum. I just hope this is avoided in the future by learning from this huge mistake and by nurturing a bit of an forgiveness which could save years of wars.

You continue to post such lies and yet you consistently have asked me to remove your negative trust via PM? Do you not see what you are doing is wrong? This was always correct use of the system, I'm really tired of this "only trade" or "only scammers" nonsense that's being portrayed by others. It is incorrect. There is no gang. There is no abuse in QS's case. I will not repeat myself.

[hacker1001101001]

Most of this reputation fighting and abusing of trust was really based on grudges between some users in power. QS never did a scam which was unforgivable overall, it was only him not willing to bow down or beg for his forgiveness to the powerful users around which made him suffer through I would say, imotional truma for years.

I am not double siding or something, but most of the user's and specially DTs around should use this thread as an example of how a gang of users with power could wrongly phrases an person's overall character on the forum. I just hope this is avoided in the future by learning from this huge mistake and by nurturing a bit of an forgiveness which could save years of wars.

You continue to post such lies and yet you consistently have asked me to remove your negative trust via PM? Do you not see what you are doing is wrong? This was always correct use of the system, I'm really tired of this "only trade" or "only scammers" nonsense that's being portrayed by others. It is incorrect. There is no gang. There is no abuse in QS's case. I will not repeat myself.

Don't you see, there is a line of users removing the trust ratings on QS as only you took the first step. Not even users who are trying to scam millions of dollars have that type of ratings which he carried for years, nor do I intend to scam someone around and still carry it. And if the creater of the system says right use of the system is to use it mostly for trade realted purpose, I don't think anything else is the perfect use. Please, I have not even explicitly scammed anyone, just me speaking about one of your wrong rating on me dragged some powered users to spit on my repo for an years old mistake which I have not engaged from long time. That's the power of mobbing I am talking about.

Also, what did I repeat after apologising to you ? I have explicitly said I am on an opposite side of some of the views of yours hence express opinions and I nowhere intended to repeat the mistake of engaging is such activities again as it happened while me having limited knowledge about the workings.

[Lauda]

And if the creater of the system says right use of the system is to use it mostly for trade realted purpose,

The creator of the system never had an issue with the amount of negative ratings that Quickseller got, therefore stop posting nonsense about this. You are on purpose refusing to accept the truth, and therefore I can't help you.

I nowhere intended to repeat the mistake of engaging is such activities again as it happened while me having limited knowledge about the workings.

You are repeating your mistakes.. right here. Deeply disappointed now.

[hacker1001101001]

You are repeating your mistakes.. right here. Deeply disappointed now.

Sorry if you misunderstood, but I was talking about not repeating paid pumping for which I was accused of.

[nullius]

This was always correct use of the system, I'm really tired of this "only trade" or "only scammers" nonsense that's being portrayed by others. It is incorrect.

I must remark, there are two very different visions of how the trust system should be used.  I agree with yours (and sorry, I am indeed a sort of extreme version of you on that point).  In another thread, Quickseller reasonably disagreed with my tag on TECSHARE without picking a fight with me over it.  Ultimately, the community will move to an organic consensus on what best benefits the community as a whole:  A narrowly limited reputational system that exclusively focuses on direct evidence of trading reliability, or a more robust reputational system that encompasses trustworthiness of character (which is indirect evidence of trade risk, as well as being important in a thousand other ways).

Although, as a cypherpunk, I have a yen for discussion of pseudonymous reputational systems, the subject is hereby off-topic beyond noting that reasonable people can debate that point reasonably.

There is no gang. There is no abuse in QS's case. I will not repeat myself.

Moreover, attempts to polarize this thread and turn it into a flamewar are despicable.  It evident that certain parties want for you to have a continuing forum war with Quickseller, because they benefit from conflict qua conflict and from you having more enemies.  Don’t let these sowers of discord get to you, kitty.

[TECSHARE]

This was always correct use of the system, I'm really tired of this "only trade" or "only scammers" nonsense that's being portrayed by others. It is incorrect.

I must remark, there are two very different visions of how the trust system should be used.  I agree with yours (and sorry, I am indeed a sort of extreme version of you on that point).  In another thread, Quickseller reasonably disagreed with my tag on TECSHARE without picking a fight with me over it.  Ultimately, the community will move to an organic consensus on what best benefits the community as a whole:  A narrowly limited reputational system that exclusively focuses on direct evidence of trading reliability, or a more robust reputational system that encompasses trustworthiness of character (which is indirect evidence of trade risk, as well as being important in a thousand other ways).

Although, as a cypherpunk, I have a yen for discussion of pseudonymous reputational systems, the subject is hereby off-topic beyond noting that reasonable people can debate that point reasonably.

There is no gang. There is no abuse in QS's case. I will not repeat myself.

Moreover, attempts to polarize this thread and turn it into a flamewar are despicable.  It evident that certain parties want for you to have a continuing forum war with Quickseller, because they benefit from conflict qua conflict and from you having more enemies.  Don’t let these sowers of discord get to you, kitty.

Except you refuse to debate the point reasonably. Your argument is you agree with an accusation some one else made, which you nor anyone else can substantiate. That is not a debate, that is you unilaterally declaring your actions correct.

Just because people are critical of the clearly superficial nature of this detente doesn't mean they want further escalation. They are simply pointing out the obviously hypocritical nature of claiming to be more reasonable in one place while perpetuating abuses elsewhere. This is a "PR" move more than anything. People could have got off of Quickseller's back a long time ago (and should have).

They are only doing it now because there is push back on their abuse, and it is a low cost way to look good by not mobbing him over some shit that happened a half a decade ago. They already drew their pound of flesh from him, he submitted to deescalation a long time ago. They only stopped beating the dead horse because there was only a pile of dry bones left to beat. They haven't punished their other detractors enough yet to have such a tolerant attitude with them. They will be reasonable AFTER they get what they want, and it doesn't matter anyway (short of less drama to wade through).

[Quickseller]

QS - Can you please ask Ognasty to remove his frivolous negs on me? I removed my negs on him & sent him a peace PM stating I did not want to fight anymore and we should just try and be better to everyone.....

I sent him a PM with a recommendation that he remove his negative rating.

It doesn't sound like he wants to remove his rating. It looks like he has a concern with this post from a month ago, and it appears that he responded to my message with another negative rating.

I have also witnessed lauda making an attempt to gain consensus on potentially controversial red trust before handing it out.

Pretty surprising right? But like what? One time over the Yobit situation?

Specifically over the decision to not tag yahoo over the yobit situation. Yahoo was actively  promoting a business he acknowledged to be a scam. I think that fits the definition of 'high risk' pretty well, but it would be controversial nevertheless. This is actually a good example of the amount of insulation you get when you run signature campaigns.

I am not advocating for others to add lauda to their trust lists, or to blindly trust whatever he says without question, I am saying that a warning for lauda is no longer necessary.

I do agree that these situations regarding Lauda's possible escrow and extortion follies are long in the past and unlikely to be repeated though..

This is the standard of which I base my decision to remove my tag.

I think that Lauda is recently coming around, and I am gaining respect for them back slowly, but it is happening to TS RIGHT NOW

I have stated before that I don't agree with the tag on TS. Given TS's trading history and trust level, I don't see the rating actually hurting him. The way the trust system is setup, these kinds of disputes don't remove his ability to have positive trust.

I was about to type "Atleast Vod hasn't started with the false/absolutely unproven and unlikely accusations yet" but here we have....

OG won't return the money he stole from pirate that was for the community

So there goes that already...

My speculation is Vod will be one of the last people to come around, if he ever does. He is a good example of that a small percentage of controversial ratings will not get you booted from DT if you have sent a lot of ratings. This is in contrast to the risk of getting booted after a single controversial/incorrect rating that was corrected quickly that was the standard 4-5 years ago.

I do hope that Vod comes around eventually. I think part of his problem is his ego, specifically him not wanting to ever be wrong (which results in him doubling down when he is wrong), and part of it is other things. Everyone is wrong sometimes, and no one likes to admit they are wrong.

Merited by ibminer (3)

(Edit)
P.S. I am not buying this spirit of forgiveness crap, maybe the OP wants to run some shit with an ex-scammer and wishes to take off the baggage or whatever.

ibminer, that was meritorious?  

I am also curious about this. I am not betting on him responding in any substantial way. I have my own opinion on ibminer, but I will keep that to myself.

I believe the purpose of this thread is to further the descalation of the trust system, which is something theymos has been pushing for a long time now. (In addition to the stated purpose of the thread).

I believe many of us have wasted too much time in petty fights between ourselves. This time is better spent fighting actual evils or working together and making this place better.

Agreed. Make bitcointalk great again!

[Vod]

I do hope that Vod comes around eventually. I think part of his problem is his ego, specifically him not wanting to ever be wrong (which results in him doubling down when he is wrong), and part of it is other things. Everyone is wrong sometimes, and no one likes to admit they are wrong.

Will you admit you wrong when you posted you knew for a fact I was a pedophile?

[Quickseller]

I do hope that Vod comes around eventually. I think part of his problem is his ego, specifically him not wanting to ever be wrong (which results in him doubling down when he is wrong), and part of it is other things. Everyone is wrong sometimes, and no one likes to admit they are wrong.

Will you admit you wrong when you posted you knew for a fact I was a pedophile?

I should not have said that. I am sorry. 

[Lauda]

I do hope that Vod comes around eventually. I think part of his problem is his ego, specifically him not wanting to ever be wrong (which results in him doubling down when he is wrong), and part of it is other things. Everyone is wrong sometimes, and no one likes to admit they are wrong.

Will you admit you wrong when you posted you knew for a fact I was a pedophile?

I should not have said that. I am sorry.  

Success! Don't forget, we've all made many mistakes and said things we shouldn't have; but forgive and let's move on together.  

[TMAN]

I do hope that Vod comes around eventually. I think part of his problem is his ego, specifically him not wanting to ever be wrong (which results in him doubling down when he is wrong), and part of it is other things. Everyone is wrong sometimes, and no one likes to admit they are wrong.

Will you admit you wrong when you posted you knew for a fact I was a pedophile?

I should not have said that. I am sorry. 

Fuck dude well done. You have gone up in my estimations even more now. Really bud props to you

[LoyceV]

It looks like he has a concern with this post from a month ago

Based on the rule change, that post is now considered low value and can be reported.

Will you admit you wrong when you posted you knew for a fact I was a pedophile?

I should not have said that. I am sorry.

I like this recent wave of correcting and forgiving past mistakes.

[xtraelv]

It looks like he has a concern with this post from a month ago

Based on the rule change, that post is now considered low value and can be reported.

Will you admit you wrong when you posted you knew for a fact I was a pedophile?

I should not have said that. I am sorry.

I like this recent wave of correcting and forgiving past mistakes.

I agree with LoyceV . I like the forgiveness and moving on.It is also in the spirit of what Theymos wants.

The forum has far more important things to offer than squabbles and grudges.

None of the issues are forgotten and there is enough information for people to make up their own minds about issues pertaining certain members.

I would have no hesitation in trading with QS, Lauda, OG, Vod, TMAN, TECHSHARE etc.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Fucking hell, Lauda, QS & Vod all burying past grudges & forgiveness is in the air?

I know it’s Valentine’s Day tomorrow but come on, I can hear Lauda purring from here, the dirty little minx.




Seriously guys, good stuff. Now if OgNasty could follow suit?

[ibminer]

ibminer, that was meritorious?  

I am also curious about this. I am not betting on him responding in any substantial way. I have my own opinion on ibminer, but I will keep that to myself.

And I didn't expect you to respond to my post in any substantial way. And I think there is a good reason why you haven't.. but I will keep that to myself, for now. So why should I respond to you?  

As for me responding to nullius, no thanks, partly because... as he himself states here:

I do not want to write a guidebook for manipulative types to show me what I want to see.

On top of that, because nullius has already shown me in the past he has severely flawed judgement when he promoted and attempted to make a "legend" on this forum out of an underage e-whore trying to long con this forum. His judgement of me wouldn't phase me.

AND, on top of that,


 

I'll at least say this.. actions speak louder than words. And your actions, even in the last 4 or so months, show me you are the same manipulative individual you have been in the past. So, sorry, at this point I won't be jumping in on this circle jerk.