Do you verify every bet as a gambler? Provably Fair Guide.

[Sadlife]

I always copy the hash of the server seed and provide my custom client seed to avoid any manipulation. However,I don't check all the results, only when I have doubts using third party tools (if you don't trust the casino then you should not trust their verification scrypt).

If the gambling site provide a feature that is integrating a plugin from a third party where you can quickly check your server seed and client seed that will be a great addition to a gambling site's legitimacy in my opinion in fact it will be a good investment and it will generate more customers wanting to play their site.

[Saint-loup]

Thanks for bringing this up Danydee. I have checked the Fairness script for Hi-Lo game and it is perfectly fine. I will now explain how the provably script on Tower Bet works for Hi-Lo:

Step 1: Generating Server Seeds

Your explanation is interesting but you forgot to mention why it's important and convenient to use a hash chain : you can (easily) check if the house seed used for the game belongs to the predefined set of seeds or not.
You just need to get the number (N) of the gamble and to hash the house seed N times, if you get the same hash as the one mentioned in the blockchain, it means the seed is ok.

For example if you are playing at the 6th game. You will have to hash 6 times the house seed when you will get it to check if the hash gotten is the same as the one included in the blockchain.
In fact if the house seed hash is displayed before playing (or if you know the house seed of the previous game) you could even check that by hashing this hash N-1 times (ie 5 times in this example) before playing...

[webtricks]

~quote~

Your explanation is interesting but you forgot to mention why it's important and convenient to use a hash chain : you can (easily) check if the house seed used for the game belongs to the predefined set of seeds or not.
You just need to get the number (N) of the gamble and to hash the house seed N times, if you get the same hash as the one mentioned in the blockchain, it means the seed is ok.

For example if you are playing at the 6th game. You will have to hash 6 times the house seed when you will get it to check if the hash gotten is the same as the one included in the blockchain.
(In fact since its hash is displayed before playing, you can even check that by hashing this hash 5 times...)

Yeah! That's obvious. Since we are hashing same number again and again and we have final hash with us, we can easily check if correct server seed is used by hashing server seed of the round times the number of rounds played so far. It has to be same with the final hash, no rocket science in that. But verifying server seed alone doesn't guarantee that result is correct. One has to calculate final result by following all steps and match with the card shown to make sure casino doesn't play any dirty in later calculation.

If the gambling site provide a feature that is integrating a plugin from a third party where you can quickly check your server seed and client seed that will be a great addition to a gambling site's legitimacy in my opinion in fact it will be a good investment and it will generate more customers wanting to play their site.

There are already several open-source verification codes available online. Most of the reputable casinos will show the link of such scripts on their provably fair page. You just need to input your seeds in the form and correct results will be shown.

[Saint-loup]

Yeah! That's obvious. Since we are hashing same number again and again and we have final hash with us, we can easily check if correct server seed is used by hashing server seed of the round times the number of rounds played so far. It has to be same with the final hash, no rocket science in that. But verifying server seed alone doesn't guarantee that result is correct. One has to calculate final result by following all steps and match with the card shown to make sure casino doesn't play any dirty in later calculation.

I agree with you that's not rocket science, but many players don't know/realize it.

But I want to add it's better to play on casinos having "seed events" thread on bitcointalk because malicious ones could use different hash chains with several final hashes included in different blocks or even blockchains... On bitcointalk you can easily find their thread, and well trusted members usually quote and archive those seed datas.
But I don't find any thread or even post of this kind for tower.bet...  

[ethereumhunter]

Not many serious gamblers always check fairness because they will think about winning the games. But for the serious gamblers who check, they will need more time to place the bet or check while they are putting the bet. The reputable gambling site will not try to cheat their members because that will relate to their reputations among the gamblers. And if they do that and the members know about that, the members will leave them and will not come to their site again.

of course the gamblers who used to be investigating this will require a lot of capital but if the cheating really happens then the gambling site owners already get a lot of results from investigators because they will certainly always try it, if their reputation is bad then they will make more with the design or a different name because if you already have a gambling script it will be very easy to make it online.

I guess so, but the owner will not create the new gambling site quickly because they want to hide their record after they get founded by that gambler. It is easy for the owner to buy another domain name because they already have a lot of money from the previous website, so they can hide for a while before making a new gambling site. The gamblers who investigate the site can cooperate with the other gamblers to reveal the gambling site to know the truth.

[perfect999]

I've known to checking each of our manual bets that we place on a dice site, but still not aware of checking the fairness of autobet rolls. Let's take an example of duckdice, if I play through their autobet feature and use flash in it, I won't be able to check each and every dice bet that it places. And I mostly lose on those flash bets, does it mean that the site is rigged? But what about the fact that I win sometimes when I manually play there?

I am not aware of the flash bets but surely if you cannot verify bets in the flash mode then the website can take some advantage in certain cases since they know the user is unable to verify bets so they can easily manipulate the seeds and cheat you.

But that said, I would never accuse a casino for cheating just because I am losing in flash mode and win when I bet manually because that can happen normally also. The simple solution though is that you should avoid flash bets and bet manually until you get an answer from them about how we can verify flash bets.

[Twentyonepaylots]

I think that in all the top casinos the games are absolutely fair. If this were not the case, they would be very quickly caught doing it. Everything here is based on mathematics and any fraud is easy to see since everything is recorded and it is very easy for any player to get complete statistics at a distance of thousands and tens of thousands of bets.

Maybe in the past people weren't aware about it, as well as doesn't have what's within the phrase "provably fair". Now people are aware and even if something seems to be unfair in the operation soon they raise complaints. This will surely create bad reputation to the casinos. To avoid such situations casinos do legitimate service and through the house edge they make profit.

Exactly. The funniest thing is that a casino makes the most profit if it works as honestly as possible. And any bias in the results relative to the theory of probability is more profitable for the players than for the casino. I read an article about this in some scientific journal, unfortunately I cannot give a link now.

What? How are they going to cheat in favor of the players? if the casino is not fair then it is all on the house. Basically the casino controls the algorithm, for example in dice, the system should draw a random number in 50% probability of being higher or lower than 50, that's the fairness in game, so if they are bias they could simply set it in 70% higher chance of getting 50 and up, but if the players notice it they can abuse it, that's where they are going to change it the other way around. Such a shame on a casino like that, money grabber

[jostorres]

This really gives me an idea on checking every bet I have made. Though I'm just small time player I never check nor verify my bet in a game. But this post makes me now realize there is other else that we can do on checking if the site is offer a provably fair. I never won actually but the site I'm paying is one of the well known online casino.

I suppose you are not the only one. I think the majority here did not think about it before the appearance of this topic, or rather, they thought about it, but no further action occurred.
Now this is already a question of interest, because in fact this is collective interaction at the forum. I will definitely check my next bet.

While you must verify your bets but my theory on this topic is that if you trust a casino then you have to trust their system and you might not need to verify your bets. What I mean to say is, suppose there is a rigged rolls problem with any casino then surely anyone in the forum will check and let everyone know about it, for example bet dicebitco.in was smoothly operating until a user found the rigged rolls problem and made it public.

I mostly play at primedice for dice game and they are running since years and if they were involved into any wrong practices they would have been busted multiple times by now. Instead they got hacked by HufflePuff which makes me think the system is quite fair. Hence, when I trust a casino I don't doubt them at all.

[Debonaire217]

This is the biggest advantage of a provably fair online game casino, which is for users to verify the outcome of the game and not just suspecting that the casino is fabricating the result for their own good.

I haven't tried to verify a singe game of mine, but with the thread you just made, I think I will do it for my future bets. For most of the people who hardly understand this topic, I advise to study these terms first:

Hash Functions,
Cryptography,
SHA256,
SHA512,
Third Party Hash Applications

I'll rephrase how I understand the verification process:

What you need is to hash the unhashed seed from the server and client, then simply compare the hashes shown by the casino to the thirdparty hashing application.

[swogerino]

I always copy the hash of the server seed and provide my custom client seed to avoid any manipulation. However,I don't check all the results, only when I have doubts using third party tools (if you don't trust the casino then you should not trust their verification scrypt).

If the gambling site provide a feature that is integrating a plugin from a third party where you can quickly check your server seed and client seed that will be a great addition to a gambling site's legitimacy in my opinion in fact it will be a good investment and it will generate more customers wanting to play their site.

I agree.I trust a lot more a site who claims to be provably fair and in addition to their claims it provides a third party trusted company which can verify the seed before and after the spin for example.This way I am assured as a customer as there is no possibility of cheating from the casino and this is how it should be.

[DarkDays]

An insightful theory you have here. You could have just linked to external animations rather than trying to break down what the provably fair system was without your dry grammar. The whole context of your thread is that you are basing your doubts based on the 3 (probably blind) people of your choosing.

In fact, your suspicions would have been more substantiated if you were to catch at least one gambling site that took advantage of this human error you speak of. You know why you couldn't because no gambling site relies on human eye to catch their errors.

This is why most gamblers don't care about where provably fair is actually enforced. They allow other entities to check that for them. And these entities are either 'smarter' people or a computer. And if a gambling house did indeed fooled its customers, then such a site would be caught easily by the snooping smart detectives we have everywhere.

Regardless of the dryness of your grammar, this was an interesting read in this section.

[mezzaluna]

Provably Fair Script is one of the basic element of online gambling, especially for crypto based casinos. However, most of the gamblers don't give dime about it while some don't even know what is it and how it operates. I started crypto gambling in 2016 and didn't know about Provably Fair for most of my initial gambling days. But believe me in the absence of Provably Fair, you are not gambling, you are just being cheated by the house.

The basic idea of this thread is to share my views on PF script and how to make most out of it. I have spent few weeks developing unique logic for Provably Fair script for upcoming gambling site clubbing it with blockchain technology. While developing it, I visited around 20 casinos and tried their PF script to understand current practice. However, this thread is not about my script but about current practice.


Now coming to the most important part. Probably this part is the main reason why I created this thread. Although, the above system is foolproof but site owners can easily fool you if you ain't paying enough attention. So here are the few points you should consider while gambling:

(i) Always copy server seed hash shown to you before betting.
(ii) After bet is complete, create new client seed. Make sure server seed is also changed along with it.
(iii) Once new client seed is created, site will show you unhashed server seed of previous bet. Copy it and convert it to sha256 hash using some third party online tool.
(iv) Match the server seed hash that you copied in step (i) to the one generated in step (iii) and make sure both are exactly same.

Two days ago, I tested my code with few people. I shown them different server seed hash before bet and after bet I kept first 6 characters same, last 3 characters same and few similar characters in the middle. It took just 30-40 seconds for my machine to generate such hash. With more powerful machine, I can speed up the process and create more matching characters. To my surprise, none of the tester noticed that they were shown different server hash before and after bet. It is human tendency that they only consider few letters (probably starting and ending ones) when presented random word like hexadecimal hash. So with bare eyes, no one was able to notice the difference. So be safe and make sure you verify every bet you make. Being a coding enthusiast, I can assure you that it is very much possible that house can easily manipulate results without player even noticing.

Another thing you can do is to use cross-casinos verification. For example, Fortunejack and Bitsler use same script, you can verify your fortunejack bets using bitsler's verification script.

That is surely one informative post and I'm currently testing it on another website like CoinPot which is integrated in rolling high and low numbers with multipliers. As far as I can see it really is random and you need to at least wait for days to see that you are gaining profit. The profit is still fairly low though it can be time consuming.

[Eugenar]

Not really familiar of such thing to be honest. I've been gradually playing for months to some gambling sites since last year. I do experience losing most of the times, but I do sometimes win a small amount. Not a "hard gambler" tho' but I did not have an idea that sites could do such thing unfair to their players. This is very informative, surely other players could reflect as well to this topic.

I think that in all the top casinos the games are absolutely fair. If this were not the case, they would be very quickly caught doing it. Everything here is based on mathematics and any fraud is easy to see since everything is recorded and it is very easy for any player to get complete statistics at a distance of thousands and tens of thousands of bets.

Maybe in the past people weren't aware about it, as well as doesn't have what's within the phrase "provably fair". Now people are aware and even if something seems to be unfair in the operation soon they raise complaints. This will surely create bad reputation to the casinos. To avoid such situations casinos do legitimate service and through the house edge they make profit.

Exactly. The funniest thing is that a casino makes the most profit if it works as honestly as possible. And any bias in the results relative to the theory of probability is more profitable for the players than for the casino. I read an article about this in some scientific journal, unfortunately I cannot give a link now.

That's just how things work. The house will probably have the win, all of the time.

[Shasha80]

I am a gambler who only plays with a small amount, so I never verify every bet that I have done. It turned out that after I read
the explanation in the opening post, I understood that checking the fairness of the script is important. Thank you for opening my
mind regarding fairness, from now on I will always verify every bet I make.Just wanted to make sure I wasn't cheated by the house.

[Questat]

I am a gambler who only plays with a small amount, so I never verify every bet that I have done. It turned out that after I read
the explanation in the opening post, I understood that checking the fairness of the script is important. Thank you for opening my
mind regarding fairness, from now on I will always verify every bet I make.Just wanted to make sure I wasn't cheated by the house.

Actually, most gamblers does not verify it, they just verify the site, if they trust it, they gamble on it.
If you only bet a small amount with bigger number of wages, I don't think you would still bother to verify, you can do it once,twice or thrice, but doing it every time, that would be a waste of time. 

But you are right, thanks to OP for sharing the complete and detailed guide, newbie should check this out.

LINK

~snip~

[semobo]

It will take lot of our time if we are going to verify the every bet results so it is always better to check the random bets of us to ensure that we are playing in a provably fair result casino.A fun note is sometimes I failed to check the results as well because I just keep repeating the previous bets continuously too often because the bet amount is going to be very minimum so I love the tapping strategy.

[iamsheikhadil]

I am a gambler who only plays with a small amount, so I never verify every bet that I have done. It turned out that after I read
the explanation in the opening post, I understood that checking the fairness of the script is important. Thank you for opening my
mind regarding fairness, from now on I will always verify every bet I make.Just wanted to make sure I wasn't cheated by the house.

Most of us have a herd-mindset haha. We never verify our bets on sites which are already popular, nor we have the energy because we are lazy verifying each and every bet isn't important specially if you verify some and the site is already trusted by many and have a license. Because for them to get a license, they really have to be completely fair!

[Kong Hey Pakboy]

I am a gambler who only plays with a small amount, so I never verify every bet that I have done. It turned out that after I read
the explanation in the opening post, I understood that checking the fairness of the script is important. Thank you for opening my
mind regarding fairness, from now on I will always verify every bet I make.Just wanted to make sure I wasn't cheated by the house.

Most of us have a herd-mindset haha. We never verify our bets on sites which are already popular, nor we have the energy because we are lazy verifying each and every bet isn't important specially if you verify some and the site is already trusted by many and have a license. Because for them to get a license, they really have to be completely fair!

Indeed. I also think it would be a little waste of time, if we will verify a popular gambling site whether it is fair or not because someone have already verified it that it is fair enough to play and spend your funds. But if you are only playing a non famous gambling site because, it would be definitely a waste of money amd time.

[BlackFor3st]

As a gambler, I am having a difficulty in verifying the fairness of every website that I was able to play even if they are giving an instruction on how we will be
able to check the fairness in their platform.

And I am wondering also if the script that they are giving can be altered easily just to cheat the players and they are just displaying the script just to say that they
are fair. And with regards to client and server seed, I am very poor about it even if you are giving a good example to it.

[peter0425]

I am a gambler who only plays with a small amount, so I never verify every bet that I have done. It turned out that after I read
the explanation in the opening post, I understood that checking the fairness of the script is important. Thank you for opening my
mind regarding fairness, from now on I will always verify every bet I make.Just wanted to make sure I wasn't cheated by the house.

Self awareness is very important even you are not really using big bankroll.

The importance of knowing that house is not cheating on you will reflect with a good relationship between
gamblers and the business. A good communication will keep the trust and the continuously visit for the site.