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Author Topic: [Donated $2k+ To Charity] Clean Water Coin: A Crypto Charity (Pure PoS)  (Read 195070 times)
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IntroVert
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April 09, 2014, 02:27:44 AM
 #1841

Dev Team,

I assume you are reading the thread, so please note the following:

Even after the 8500 fork, this coin will be massively unprofitable to mine at current prices. Let's say that the difficulty stays at 3 (we all know it will rise for sure), and the price is double what it is right now, 2*10 satoshies = 20 satoshies. My calculations show that 1Mh/s of mining power would earn a miner about 6700 WATER/day or about 0.00134 BTC. Compare this with 0.00398 for LTC (difficulty 6190 at the moment), 0.004292 for FTC (difficulty 225), 0.004844 for Vertcoin (difficulty 217, 50% of hash power accounted for), etc. The message here is that the excessive coin production hurt the value big time and that we need to do everything we can to make it recover.

I mentioned this earlier and will do so again: use the BTCs you have from the PLC to buy as much WATER as you can and cause a supply shortage. The price will rise eventually and as an added bonus you will have greater chance to reclaim control of CWC, which you have now lost.

If anyone finds an error or an issue with what I am stating/proposing, please chime in.

EDIT: I was charitable and assumed that one WATER block will yield 1000 coins, whereas we know it would be 8xx in reality.
It is impossible to use the BTC of PLC.
Just forget it buddy.

How so? Has it been spent already?

There has to be a realization here this now is a pump and dump coin with a charity attached to it. If you want the coin to retain its original mission, you have to make its value go back up. In case the PLC BTC cannot be used, I would like to hear why and what is the alternative plan for this coin to regain value.

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April 09, 2014, 02:46:16 AM
 #1842

Dev Team,

I assume you are reading the thread, so please note the following:

Even after the 8500 fork, this coin will be massively unprofitable to mine at current prices. Let's say that the difficulty stays at 3 (we all know it will rise for sure), and the price is double what it is right now, 2*10 satoshies = 20 satoshies. My calculations show that 1Mh/s of mining power would earn a miner about 6700 WATER/day or about 0.00134 BTC. Compare this with 0.00398 for LTC (difficulty 6190 at the moment), 0.004292 for FTC (difficulty 225), 0.004844 for Vertcoin (difficulty 217, 50% of hash power accounted for), etc. The message here is that the excessive coin production hurt the value big time and that we need to do everything we can to make it recover.

I mentioned this earlier and will do so again: use the BTCs you have from the PLC to buy as much WATER as you can and cause a supply shortage. The price will rise eventually and as an added bonus you will have greater chance to reclaim control of CWC, which you have now lost.

If anyone finds an error or an issue with what I am stating/proposing, please chime in.

EDIT: I was charitable and assumed that one WATER block will yield 1000 coins, whereas we know it would be 8xx in reality.
It is impossible to use the BTC of PLC.
Just forget it buddy.

How so? Has it been spent already?

There has to be a realization here this now is a pump and dump coin with a charity attached to it. If you want the coin to retain its original mission, you have to make its value go back up. In case the PLC BTC cannot be used, I would like to hear why and what is the alternative plan for this coin to regain value.
I don't think it is a good way to regain value by using those BTC.
It is just providing a way for people to earn a good money by dumping the coins.
BTC has its original mission too.
Someone please spend some bilions of USD and make its value up. Sad
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April 09, 2014, 03:00:32 AM
Last edit: April 09, 2014, 03:17:09 AM by IntroVert
 #1843

Dev Team,

I assume you are reading the thread, so please note the following:

Even after the 8500 fork, this coin will be massively unprofitable to mine at current prices. Let's say that the difficulty stays at 3 (we all know it will rise for sure), and the price is double what it is right now, 2*10 satoshies = 20 satoshies. My calculations show that 1Mh/s of mining power would earn a miner about 6700 WATER/day or about 0.00134 BTC. Compare this with 0.00398 for LTC (difficulty 6190 at the moment), 0.004292 for FTC (difficulty 225), 0.004844 for Vertcoin (difficulty 217, 50% of hash power accounted for), etc. The message here is that the excessive coin production hurt the value big time and that we need to do everything we can to make it recover.

I mentioned this earlier and will do so again: use the BTCs you have from the PLC to buy as much WATER as you can and cause a supply shortage. The price will rise eventually and as an added bonus you will have greater chance to reclaim control of CWC, which you have now lost.

If anyone finds an error or an issue with what I am stating/proposing, please chime in.

EDIT: I was charitable and assumed that one WATER block will yield 1000 coins, whereas we know it would be 8xx in reality.
It is impossible to use the BTC of PLC.
Just forget it buddy.

How so? Has it been spent already?

There has to be a realization here this now is a pump and dump coin with a charity attached to it. If you want the coin to retain its original mission, you have to make its value go back up. In case the PLC BTC cannot be used, I would like to hear why and what is the alternative plan for this coin to regain value.
I don't think it is a good way to regain value by using those BTC.
It is just providing a way for people to earn a good money by dumping the coins.
BTC has its original mission too.
Someone please spend some bilions of USD and make its value up. Sad

If you have followed they way US companies "make" their earnings post 2008 disaster, you would know that they buy their stock in order to "hit" their quarterly numbers and make the value of that stock go up. Or to touch on another touchy subject here, world central banks control currency value by manipulating supply. I can go on and on...

However, note that this purchase of WATER with BTC would serve the causes that are often associated with premines, but would be considered much more legitimate as the coins would be bought on an open market. Besides restricting supply, you can use those coins to develop the community, offer bounties for tasks to be done or products to be developed, retain some software development help, etc... This coin has had its count increased roughly 28 times from 17M at block 7000 to roughly 470M at block 8000, whereas the value fell roughly by same percentage from 250 to 8-9 satoshi i.e. to 4% of what it was before. Cannot get much worse than this. Something must be done relatively soon after we verify that all is good after block 8500.

Water_kel, it is not my intention to put you on the spot, as I know you have defined duty to build and work with the Chinese community. These questions need to be addressed by someone else. Thank you for helping facilitate the conversation.

EDIT: I will make another point here related to the coin statistics. The PLC holders can't be adequately compensated after what just happened. The numbers are just too staggering, they went from holding 60% of all coins issued at block 7000, to slightly more than 2% now. Being a PLC participant, I have accepted this fact and the one that loses are inevitable in life. Other PLC participants will disagree with me especially those who have invested substantial amounts. But I think that we can all agree that if CWC does not come back, we all lose.

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April 09, 2014, 03:06:25 AM
 #1844

We need time to think through all possibilities in order to make the best and most informed decisions right now. Please don't mistake the silence for abandonment -- we were blind-sided by this just as much as you were -- and are running through multiple options right now. We will post a more complete update as soon as we have a concrete plan in place.

-Zach

CleanWaterCoin.org | A Crypto Charity
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April 09, 2014, 03:09:59 AM
 #1845


If you have followed they way US companies "make" their earnings post 2008 disaster, you would know that they buy their stock in order to "hit" their quarterly numbers and make the value of that stock go up. Or to touch on another touchy subject here, world central banks control currency value by manipulating supply. I can go on and on...

However, note that this purchase of WATER with BTC would serve the causes that are often associated with premines, but would be considered much more legitimate as the coins would be bought on an open market. Besides restricting supply, you can use those coins to develop the community, offer bounties for tasks to be done or products to be developed, retain some software development help, etc... This coin has had its count increased roughly 28 times from 17M at block 7000 to roughly 470M at block 8000, whereas the value fell roughly by same percentage from 250 to 8-9 satoshi i.e. to 4% of what it was before. Cannot get much worse than this. Something must be done relatively soon after we verify that all is good after block 8500.

Water_kel, it is not my intention to put you on the spot, as I know you have defined duty to build and work with the Chinese community. These questions need to be addressed by someone else. Thank you for helping facilitate the conversation.

+1 This man knows what he's talking about. Need more people like him who can actually back up their suggestions with some solid reasoning. This is exactly what needs to happen.

Once these coins are bought up the massive supply increase that just happened will be dealt with. Once that's done you only have the regular block rewards being introduced into the market daily and the market can deal with that.
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April 09, 2014, 03:13:44 AM
 #1846

@Introvert.....I have suggested this more than once and never got any type of reply.

I think they have just two options:

1. Give back the PLC money to the investors and let the coin die, or..
2. Do as we both have suggested and use the PLC BTC to buy up all these dumped coins and get prices stabilized.

Some would think giving the PLC BTC to the charity would be option 3, but it isn't really an option at all. The investors did so to get a viable coin with a decent ROI. They did NOT donate to charity. If donating to charity was their intent, they could have done so directly.
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April 09, 2014, 03:22:55 AM
 #1847

@Introvert.....I have suggested this more than once and never got any type of reply.

I think they have just two options:

1. Give back the PLC money to the investors and let the coin die, or..
2. Do as we both have suggested and use the PLC BTC to buy up all these dumped coins and get prices stabilized.

Some would think giving the PLC BTC to the charity would be option 3, but it isn't really an option at all. The investors did so to get a viable coin with a decent ROI. They did NOT donate to charity. If donating to charity was their intent, they could have done so directly.

I agree with you and would like to go for option 2, and I really don't care about 1. I am definitely willing to hear any other ideas that the Dev Team might have in due time.

Thank you for your involvement and support of this coin!

Support Sidehack's miner development. Send donations to:   1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
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April 09, 2014, 03:47:02 AM
 #1848

@Introvert.....I have suggested this more than once and never got any type of reply.

I think they have just two options:

1. Give back the PLC money to the investors and let the coin die, or..
2. Do as we both have suggested and use the PLC BTC to buy up all these dumped coins and get prices stabilized.

Some would think giving the PLC BTC to the charity would be option 3, but it isn't really an option at all. The investors did so to get a viable coin with a decent ROI. They did NOT donate to charity. If donating to charity was their intent, they could have done so directly.

I agree with you and would like to go for option 2, and I really don't care about 1. I am definitely willing to hear any other ideas that the Dev Team might have in due time.

Thank you for your involvement and support of this coin!


I thought that was a good idea the first time you suggested it. The devs can turn the IPO in to a MUCH bigger IPO buy buying millions of the inflationary coins cheap to drive up price due to more limited supply.

So yeah, buy up most of the WATER with the IPO and let it start staking while they do the things they were already going to do. Stake would be pretty massive.


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Water_kel
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April 09, 2014, 03:55:57 AM
 #1849

@Introvert.....I have suggested this more than once and never got any type of reply.

I think they have just two options:

1. Give back the PLC money to the investors and let the coin die, or..
2. Do as we both have suggested and use the PLC BTC to buy up all these dumped coins and get prices stabilized.

Some would think giving the PLC BTC to the charity would be option 3, but it isn't really an option at all. The investors did so to get a viable coin with a decent ROI. They did NOT donate to charity. If donating to charity was their intent, they could have done so directly.

I agree with you and would like to go for option 2, and I really don't care about 1. I am definitely willing to hear any other ideas that the Dev Team might have in due time.

Thank you for your involvement and support of this coin!


I thought that was a good idea the first time you suggested it. The devs can turn the IPO in to a MUCH bigger IPO buy buying millions of the inflationary coins cheap to drive up price due to more limited supply.

So yeah, buy up most of the WATER with the IPO and let it start staking while they do the things they were already going to do. Stake would be pretty massive.


They only got about 20 BTC.
Just assume the price can go up to 10 times, 80 sat, although I think it is too hopeful.
It is still far from the original price, ~300 sat.
Also we need other supporters for the price in order to make it stable.  Undecided
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April 09, 2014, 04:03:33 AM
Last edit: April 09, 2014, 04:18:29 AM by IntroVert
 #1850

@Introvert.....I have suggested this more than once and never got any type of reply.

I think they have just two options:

1. Give back the PLC money to the investors and let the coin die, or..
2. Do as we both have suggested and use the PLC BTC to buy up all these dumped coins and get prices stabilized.

Some would think giving the PLC BTC to the charity would be option 3, but it isn't really an option at all. The investors did so to get a viable coin with a decent ROI. They did NOT donate to charity. If donating to charity was their intent, they could have done so directly.

I agree with you and would like to go for option 2, and I really don't care about 1. I am definitely willing to hear any other ideas that the Dev Team might have in due time.

Thank you for your involvement and support of this coin!


I thought that was a good idea the first time you suggested it. The devs can turn the IPO in to a MUCH bigger IPO buy buying millions of the inflationary coins cheap to drive up price due to more limited supply.

So yeah, buy up most of the WATER with the IPO and let it start staking while they do the things they were already going to do. Stake would be pretty massive.


They only got about 20 BTC.
Just assume the price can go up to 10 times, 80 sat, although I think it is too hopeful.
It is still far from the original price, ~300 sat.
Also we need other supporters for the price in order to make it stable.  Undecided

The market now values all WATER issued at 47 BTC (470M WATER * 10 satoshi). The dev team holds capital of 20+ BTC against that market cap. That is pretty sizable coverage of over 40% and they can be a big market player at this capitalization if they wish. Now, nobody says they need to burn all PLC BTC for this. But, in my view, they need to buy enough to stabilize the price of the coin, regain control as much as possible and use part or all of it to build up the community. I am sure the Dev Team didn't think they would need to engage in "market manipulation", but that is a cost of this mistake.

Nobody should expect to see 200-300 satoshi fast with this number of coins. Only with building up and support of the community we might get there eventually, and that's not guaranteed.

Support Sidehack's miner development. Send donations to:   1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
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April 09, 2014, 05:22:05 AM
 #1851

@Introvert.....I have suggested this more than once and never got any type of reply.

I think they have just two options:

1. Give back the PLC money to the investors and let the coin die, or..
2. Do as we both have suggested and use the PLC BTC to buy up all these dumped coins and get prices stabilized.

Some would think giving the PLC BTC to the charity would be option 3, but it isn't really an option at all. The investors did so to get a viable coin with a decent ROI. They did NOT donate to charity. If donating to charity was their intent, they could have done so directly.

I agree with you and would like to go for option 2, and I really don't care about 1. I am definitely willing to hear any other ideas that the Dev Team might have in due time.

Thank you for your involvement and support of this coin!


I thought that was a good idea the first time you suggested it. The devs can turn the IPO in to a MUCH bigger IPO buy buying millions of the inflationary coins cheap to drive up price due to more limited supply.

So yeah, buy up most of the WATER with the IPO and let it start staking while they do the things they were already going to do. Stake would be pretty massive.


They only got about 20 BTC.
Just assume the price can go up to 10 times, 80 sat, although I think it is too hopeful.
It is still far from the original price, ~300 sat.
Also we need other supporters for the price in order to make it stable.  Undecided

The market now values all WATER issued at 47 BTC (470M WATER * 10 satoshi). The dev team holds capital of 20+ BTC against that market cap. That is pretty sizable coverage of over 40% and they can be a big market player at this capitalization if they wish. Now, nobody says they need to burn all PLC BTC for this. But, in my view, they need to buy enough to stabilize the price of the coin, regain control as much as possible and use part or all of it to build up the community. I am sure the Dev Team didn't think they would need to engage in "market manipulation", but that is a cost of this mistake.

Nobody should expect to see 200-300 satoshi fast with this number of coins. Only with building up and support of the community we might get there eventually, and that's not guaranteed.

I would offer a third suggestion...

Use half of whatever BTC is remaining from the PLC to buy up as much WATER as possible to distribute to the PLC holders. This leaves CWC with some money to continue their work and puts some extra coins in the wallets of the PLC holders, without damaging either too badly. CWC operates exactly like it would have if its PLC earnings had simply been less, which I'm assuming they were prepared to do since they had no idea of how much BTC they would bring in, and PLC holders gain a number of coins proportional to their investment. This keeps everyone at least partially satisfied and still able to take steps forward to build and promote the coin, which is where its long term value will come from anyways.

I seem to recall some anecdote about the fairest solution being one that nobody is completely satisfied with. This applies here. If some concessions are made by all parties involved, then we all lose a bit in the short term, but it allows recovery and progress in the long term.

The value of the coin will eventually come up again... maybe not to 300 sat, but then again, maybe much higher. Yes, there are big holders now that will dump, but how is that any different than any other coin? But they would be foolish to with a POS coin and with a small window of opportunity to acquire their fortunes. The coins gained during mining from block 7000-8000 are basically irreplaceable... If someone is holding a few million coins and decides to dump them, it's not like he can go and mine them back tomorrow. So, those that are in this for a quick buck will dump, while those that are in it for the long haul will buy/mine/hold. It might take a while to shake out the weak hands and build some value, but it can happen. Personally, I like playing as many sides as I can... I sold half of what I mined from 7000-8000 and out of the other half, I've set aside 80% to hold long term and gain interest and 20% to play with in the market.

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April 09, 2014, 05:48:35 AM
 #1852

@Introvert.....I have suggested this more than once and never got any type of reply.

I think they have just two options:

1. Give back the PLC money to the investors and let the coin die, or..
2. Do as we both have suggested and use the PLC BTC to buy up all these dumped coins and get prices stabilized.

Some would think giving the PLC BTC to the charity would be option 3, but it isn't really an option at all. The investors did so to get a viable coin with a decent ROI. They did NOT donate to charity. If donating to charity was their intent, they could have done so directly.

I agree with you and would like to go for option 2, and I really don't care about 1. I am definitely willing to hear any other ideas that the Dev Team might have in due time.

Thank you for your involvement and support of this coin!


I thought that was a good idea the first time you suggested it. The devs can turn the IPO in to a MUCH bigger IPO buy buying millions of the inflationary coins cheap to drive up price due to more limited supply.

So yeah, buy up most of the WATER with the IPO and let it start staking while they do the things they were already going to do. Stake would be pretty massive.


They only got about 20 BTC.
Just assume the price can go up to 10 times, 80 sat, although I think it is too hopeful.
It is still far from the original price, ~300 sat.
Also we need other supporters for the price in order to make it stable.  Undecided

The market now values all WATER issued at 47 BTC (470M WATER * 10 satoshi). The dev team holds capital of 20+ BTC against that market cap. That is pretty sizable coverage of over 40% and they can be a big market player at this capitalization if they wish. Now, nobody says they need to burn all PLC BTC for this. But, in my view, they need to buy enough to stabilize the price of the coin, regain control as much as possible and use part or all of it to build up the community. I am sure the Dev Team didn't think they would need to engage in "market manipulation", but that is a cost of this mistake.

Nobody should expect to see 200-300 satoshi fast with this number of coins. Only with building up and support of the community we might get there eventually, and that's not guaranteed.

Probably 40 percent of the coins that were mined from block 7000-8000 were orphaned because hashing.at (who had the most hashing power) forked.  Some of the coins mined on suchpool didn't make it to miners wallets either. Those coins are gone forever. So, actually there are alot less than 470M water in circulation right now. Who knows the actual number though. I would guess about 300M.. maybe less.
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April 09, 2014, 06:06:20 AM
 #1853




Probably 40 percent of the coins that were mined from block 7000-8000 were orphaned because hashing.at (who had the most hashing power) forked.  Some of the coins mined on suchpool didn't make it to miners wallets either. Those coins are gone forever. So, actually there are alot less than 470M water in circulation right now. Who knows the actual number though. I would guess about 300M.. maybe less.
Yes, and people are claiming that they got only 20-40%, so there maybe be even more less than 300M, like only 200M or 150M. There was also scaried dumpers who dumped cheap their coins which was mined till 7k block.

Let's make a change. Change makes you better. Change makes you smarter. Change makes you healthier.
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April 09, 2014, 06:07:50 AM
 #1854

@Introvert.....I have suggested this more than once and never got any type of reply.

I think they have just two options:

1. Give back the PLC money to the investors and let the coin die, or..
2. Do as we both have suggested and use the PLC BTC to buy up all these dumped coins and get prices stabilized.

Some would think giving the PLC BTC to the charity would be option 3, but it isn't really an option at all. The investors did so to get a viable coin with a decent ROI. They did NOT donate to charity. If donating to charity was their intent, they could have done so directly.

I agree with you and would like to go for option 2, and I really don't care about 1. I am definitely willing to hear any other ideas that the Dev Team might have in due time.

Thank you for your involvement and support of this coin!


I thought that was a good idea the first time you suggested it. The devs can turn the IPO in to a MUCH bigger IPO buy buying millions of the inflationary coins cheap to drive up price due to more limited supply.

So yeah, buy up most of the WATER with the IPO and let it start staking while they do the things they were already going to do. Stake would be pretty massive.


They only got about 20 BTC.
Just assume the price can go up to 10 times, 80 sat, although I think it is too hopeful.
It is still far from the original price, ~300 sat.
Also we need other supporters for the price in order to make it stable.  Undecided

The market now values all WATER issued at 47 BTC (470M WATER * 10 satoshi). The dev team holds capital of 20+ BTC against that market cap. That is pretty sizable coverage of over 40% and they can be a big market player at this capitalization if they wish. Now, nobody says they need to burn all PLC BTC for this. But, in my view, they need to buy enough to stabilize the price of the coin, regain control as much as possible and use part or all of it to build up the community. I am sure the Dev Team didn't think they would need to engage in "market manipulation", but that is a cost of this mistake.

Nobody should expect to see 200-300 satoshi fast with this number of coins. Only with building up and support of the community we might get there eventually, and that's not guaranteed.

Probably 40 percent of the coins that were mined from block 7000-8000 were orphaned because hashing.at (who had the most hashing power) forked.  Some of the coins mined on suchpool didn't make it to miners wallets either. Those coins are gone forever. So, actually there are alot less than 470M water in circulation right now. Who knows the actual number though. I would guess about 300M.. maybe less.


I totally agree.

I lost nearly a half million at hashing.at and couple hundred K more at suchpool.pw

To be fair, I lost way more than I received from either pool.

I also really think the 470m figure is grossly overstated.

Is there a way to determine exactly how many coins are out there?
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April 09, 2014, 06:23:03 AM
 #1855

Has the 15k limit been fixed yet?  I still can't start the daemon and payout crons without them erroring out.

I need to pay people.  Please devs, fix this.  Also - remove dedicatedpool from the pool list.

Thanks!


DEDICATEDPOOL.COM
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April 09, 2014, 06:27:16 AM
 #1856

Has the 15k limit been fixed yet?  I still can't start the daemon and payout crons without them erroring out.

I need to pay people.  Please devs, fix this.  Also - remove dedicatedpool from the pool list.

Thanks!


Are you using latest wallet? Because it was fixed there.

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April 09, 2014, 06:31:50 AM
 #1857

Has the 15k limit been fixed yet?  I still can't start the daemon and payout crons without them erroring out.

I need to pay people.  Please devs, fix this.  Also - remove dedicatedpool from the pool list.

Thanks!



The 15k limit was supposedly fixed on the new wallet.
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April 09, 2014, 06:44:55 AM
 #1858

Has the 15k limit been fixed yet?  I still can't start the daemon and payout crons without them erroring out.

I need to pay people.  Please devs, fix this.  Also - remove dedicatedpool from the pool list.

Thanks!



The dev is in the IRC chat now if you still need help.
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April 09, 2014, 06:46:29 AM
 #1859




Glad I bought some at 3-6!





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Water_kel
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April 09, 2014, 07:05:02 AM
 #1860




Glad I bought some at 3-6!





Tongue 300 on the way.
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