Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[paxmao]

I think many of you saw photos from Buch city where streets is full of ded people, men killed with their hands tied and people buried in mass grave. Guess how Russian defense ministry reacted to it. Everything is staged and faked by Kiev to show it for foreign media and while city was under control of Russia, none of civilians weren't hurt:
https://ria.ru/20220403/minoborony-1781557525.html

There was a fake in the maternity hospital, there was also a fake in the theater, why is it not a fake here? As Hitler said in Mein Kampf, "The more monstrous the lie, the more likely it will be believed." According to another version, this is a quote from the Goebbels manual, but radish horseradish is not sweeter. Apparently, the Ukrainian media follow the precepts of their ideological inspirers

....

In your view, has Putin's army committed any war crime?

The evidence found are extensive, it would take an army of people just to produce the amount of photographic material, witnesses and declarations. It is simply impossible to hide or deny. The behaviour of the troop  in many locations is from criminal to sub-human and that does not happen without orders.

And just so you do not feel we do not read your crap, there is also abundant evidence that both the maternity and the theatre attacks did happen, were civilians targets and are war crimes, but that is only but the tip of what is being found.

Now, you can move on to the "excuse & whatabout" department of your controllers to provide more excuses and "whattabouts", but the problem of crimes in an modern country with good comms, good satelite coverage and abundance of means to document facts is that you just cannot lie your way out of it. There will be reports, these will be issued by credible organisations and audited by neutral parties and there will be no way that anyone with access to reasonably independent media will believe Putins parallel reality.

And make no mistake, there are consequences of having a country ruled by a known war criminal.

...
Even if Europe does not have a better solution, this is not a reason to apply a bad solution, simply because they could not come up with anything better. Cultivating Russophobia and thereby encouraging the manifestations of Nazism in Europe is not very smart against the backdrop of the operation to "denazify" Ukraine. Europe should seriously consider its behavior towards Russia, given that Europe depends on Russia, it seems much more than Russia depends on Europe. Nazism did not fall on Ukraine from an unknown distance, Nazism was and remains the highest stage in the development of European philosophical thought - and this is a serious problem in Europe, because Nazism is unacceptable to Russia.
 
#StopHatingRussians

Europe does not hate Russia. Europe has tried to bring Russia into the world commerce and partnerships that allow the development of countries and the progress of the people. Under Putin, Russia cannot be part of this world - imperfect yes - but of progress and (reasonable) freedom.

This war has never been about Nazis. You want to drive the discussion there, but there is simply not a point to hold to. If something is clear in Europe is that Nazis are not welcome in governments.

[xandry]

Europe should seriously consider its behavior towards Russia, given that Europe depends on Russia, it seems much more than Russia depends on Europe.

You describe a relationship when one dominates someone else, or when someone depends on another, so he is forced to obey. This is how a lot of things are arranged in Russia, where children in kindergartens are put on their knees and lined up in the letter "Z"¹, where teachers in schools are forced to tell propaganda to children², and parents should help repair the school³. When you sit shut up at work, and everyone around admires how well the neighboring country is being destroyed. There are simply a huge number of such examples in Russia, and all this is based on people's fear for their lives and the lives of their family. But you forgot one thing: it is not acceptable in Europe, unlike Russia, human rights are respected there, there is a legal regime, corruption is not a generally accepted phenomenon. Therefore, when Putin's officials talk rudely at the international level or openly lie, Europe does not get worse from this, it only shows that it is simply not pleasant to conduct a civilized dialogue with Russia and it is better to end it. Europe should not grovel before Putin, as they have pride and the right to choose, unlike Russian citizens. In all the anti-Russian policy that is growing now and has been in the last decades, the Russian government is solely to blame, and no one except the Russian government has had such a strong influence on anti-Russian sentiment in the world. I think everyone knows the expression "shoot yourself in the foot." So this expression fits very many actions of Putin's officials for many years.

1. https://euroradio.fm/ru/ponimaet-li-zapad-chto-pytaetsya-dogovoritsya-s-zombirovannymi
2. https://meduza.io/feature/2022/03/05/osvoboditelnaya-missiya-na-ukraine-eto-neobhodimost
3. https://rg.ru/2013/10/10/reg-szfo/shkola.html

[Tash]

If there is no desire for peace there wont be any, simple as that.
5 days before it all started

[paxmao]

If there is no desire for peace there wont be any, simple as that.
5 days before it all started


[...]

I normally would not answer to your post, as they seem just links for an algorithm or pure crap, but the look of this pic is just too much. Please, on which day did WJS publish this you say?

In any case, again trying to put the blame on a country for simply deciding for itself where they want to be in the future, as is some divine right assisted Putin in telling them what they can or cannot do.

[Branko]

Europe does not hate Russia. Europe has tried to bring Russia into the world commerce and partnerships that allow the development of countries and the progress of the people. Under Putin, Russia cannot be part of this world - imperfect yes - but of progress and (reasonable) freedom.

I think that is actually true...but then there are USA and UK out there than don't like it...and they play that card for 100+ years already

[Branko]

If there is no desire for peace there wont be any, simple as that.
5 days before it all started


[...]

I normally would not answer to your post, as they seem just links for an algorithm or pure crap, but the look of this pic is just too much. Please, on which day did WJS publish this you say?

Thats easy:

https://thepressunited.com/updates/zelensky-rejected-peace-offer-days-before-russian-offensive-wsj/

[af_newbie]

If there is no desire for peace there wont be any, simple as that.
5 days before it all started


[...]

I normally would not answer to your post, as they seem just links for an algorithm or pure crap, but the look of this pic is just too much. Please, on which day did WJS publish this you say?

Thats easy:

https://thepressunited.com/updates/zelensky-rejected-peace-offer-days-before-russian-offensive-wsj/

Would you be in support of war if let's say, Poland makes a request to Russia to deactivate its nuclear arsenal, and if Russia refuses, NATO
invades Russia and bombs their cities?

Would you blame Russia for refusal to disarm its nuclear arsenal?  Would you imply that they are responsible for the war that NATO started?

Same here, Russia had no business annexing part of Ukraine, they had no business telling Ukraine which political, economic, or military alliance they can or cannot join.

What they did is a war of conquest. The NATO expansion talk or denazification and demilitarization are just smokescreens.

They want to annex Ukraine to Russia. Of course, Ukraine, and 40M+ Ukrainians will reject such a 'peaceful proposal'.

[TwitchySeal]

If there is no desire for peace there wont be any, simple as that.
5 days before it all started


[...]

I normally would not answer to your post, as they seem just links for an algorithm or pure crap, but the look of this pic is just too much. Please, on which day did WJS publish this you say?

Thats easy:

https://thepressunited.com/updates/zelensky-rejected-peace-offer-days-before-russian-offensive-wsj/

RT is the actual source.  So, Russia.

[be.open]

In your view, has Putin's army committed any war crime?

In my opinion, the soldiers of the Russian army are doing their job and doing it well. I do not rule out that there may be individual episodes of cases of unjustified cruelty among Russian soldiers in relation to civilians - this is the prerogative of a military tribunal and it is not for me to judge this.

The evidence found are extensive, it would take an army of people just to produce the amount of photographic material, witnesses and declarations. It is simply impossible to hide or deny. The behaviour of the troop  in many locations is from criminal to sub-human and that does not happen without orders.

Russian troops redeployed from near Kyiv to Donbass a few days ago, and yesterday photos of bound corpses with fresh wounds appeared. The corpses themselves are not fake, but who did it? I hope you have no problems with critical thinking to independently compare the facts and restore the sequence of events.

Here is a joyful statement by the mayor of Bucha on March 31 about the liberation of the city from "Russian occupiers". Not a word about the corpses on the streets and the atrocities of Russian soldiers, a complete victory. And two days later, those terrible photos appear. Something doesn't add up in this story, don't you think?

And just so you do not feel we do not read your crap, there is also abundant evidence that both the maternity and the theatre attacks did happen, were civilians targets and are war crimes, but that is only but the tip of what is being found.

Both episodes turned out to be fakes.

Now, you can move on to the "excuse & whatabout" department of your controllers to provide more excuses and "whattabouts", but the problem of crimes in an modern country with good comms, good satelite coverage and abundance of means to document facts is that you just cannot lie your way out of it. There will be reports, these will be issued by credible organisations and audited by neutral parties and there will be no way that anyone with access to reasonably independent media will believe Putins parallel reality.

Rather, the problem is that a whole factory of fakes is operating in Ukraine, from the banal issuance of old photographs as fresh events, to high-quality montages like videos of Russian aircraft inflicting airstrikes on Paris and Berlin. The production of informational fakes is put on stream in Ukrainian propaganda, and this is a problem for the Russian side, because in the information war the advantage is gained not by the one who tells the truth, but by the one who has a more inflamed and unlimited imagination.

And make no mistake, there are consequences of having a country ruled by a known war criminal.

So far, I see clear examples of war crimes only from the Ukrainian side, and they manifest themselves in the fact that the Ukrainian military is actively using civilians as hostages. The army must protect its people, not hide behind them! Go out into the field and fight like a soldier, or lay down your weapons and surrender. Even if you die - your opponent will accept it with respect, and will not consider you a coward who hides behind the backs of women and children whom you were supposed to protect. You may consider the Russians wild barbarians, but we have clear ideas of honor that are incompatible with sadism and violence against unarmed people.

Europe does not hate Russia. Europe has tried to bring Russia into the world commerce and partnerships that allow the development of countries and the progress of the people. Under Putin, Russia cannot be part of this world - imperfect yes - but of progress and (reasonable) freedom.

The united Europe takes its current place in the world largely due to the uninterrupted supply of cheap Russian raw materials, oil and gas. The labor of European workers is quite expensive, and Europe needs cheap raw materials and energy in order for European goods to compete in the world market. If supplies from Russia stop, Europe will very soon become bankrupt and will no longer be able to maintain a high standard of living for Europeans. It's as clear as a sunny day, and that's what I meant when I said that Europe needs Russia more than Russia needs Europe.

This war has never been about Nazis. You want to drive the discussion there, but there is simply not a point to hold to. If something is clear in Europe is that Nazis are not welcome in governments.

You are right, the widespread use of Nazism in Ukraine is a excus, not a reason. The security threat to Russia from Ukraine's accession to NATO is no more significant than from Norway's accession to NATO in 1949. There is also the problem of the eight-year genocide of the Russian-speaking population of Donbass, who held a referendum, exercised their right to self-determination and decided to become independent, and then asked Russia for recognition and assistance. Russians do not leave their own in trouble, so now Russian soldiers are fighting side by side with the forces of the people's militia of Donetsk and Lugansk.

But you understand very well that this bulb has many layers and the true causes of this confrontation must be sought not on the surface, but a little deeper. Is fecit, cui prodest. And who is the main beneficiary of the current events in Ukraine and in Europe as a whole? I have an opinion on this, but I will leave this question open for everyone to ask themselves and get their own version of the answer.

Europe should seriously consider its behavior towards Russia, given that Europe depends on Russia, it seems much more than Russia depends on Europe.

You describe a relationship when one dominates someone else, or when someone depends on another, so he is forced to obey. This is how a lot of things are arranged in Russia, where children in kindergartens are put on their knees and lined up in the letter "Z"¹, where teachers in schools are forced to tell propaganda to children², and parents should help repair the school³. When you sit shut up at work, and everyone around admires how well the neighboring country is being destroyed. There are simply a huge number of such examples in Russia, and all this is based on people's fear for their lives and the lives of their family. But you forgot one thing: it is not acceptable in Europe, unlike Russia, human rights are respected there, there is a legal regime, corruption is not a generally accepted phenomenon. Therefore, when Putin's officials talk rudely at the international level or openly lie, Europe does not get worse from this, it only shows that it is simply not pleasant to conduct a civilized dialogue with Russia and it is better to end it. Europe should not grovel before Putin, as they have pride and the right to choose, unlike Russian citizens. In all the anti-Russian policy that is growing now and has been in the last decades, the Russian government is solely to blame, and no one except the Russian government has had such a strong influence on anti-Russian sentiment in the world. I think everyone knows the expression "shoot yourself in the foot." So this expression fits very many actions of Putin's officials for many years.

1. https://euroradio.fm/ru/ponimaet-li-zapad-chto-pytaetsya-dogovoritsya-s-zombirovannymi
2. https://meduza.io/feature/2022/03/05/osvoboditelnaya-missiya-na-ukraine-eto-neobhodimost
3. https://rg.ru/2013/10/10/reg-szfo/shkola.html

I'm not suggesting that Europe kowtow to Russia because Russia is stronger. But it is still good for Europe to be aware of its current weakness whenever it opens its mouth to anti-Russian rhetoric. "Shooting yourself in the foot" is a good metaphor for all European economic sanctions against Russia. Another good metaphor for this - нaзлo мaмкe yши oтмopoжy.

[Tash]

If there is no desire for peace there wont be any, simple as that.
5 days before it all started

I normally would not answer to your post, as they seem just links for an algorithm or pure crap, but the look of this pic is just too much. Please, on which day did WJS publish this you say?

In any case, again trying to put the blame on a country for simply deciding for itself where they want to be in the future, as is some divine right assisted Putin in telling them what they can or cannot do.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/vladimir-putins-20-year-march-to-war-in-ukraineand-how-the-west-mishandled-it-11648826461
More from Alexander https://youtu.be/IPF-iP3fE9k

Kherson now on independence course from Ukraine. This looks more and more like the break up of Yugoslavia. How many countries will it split into?
Luhansk and Donetsk already independend


Meanwhile Chinese foreign ministers tweet


"Fair world order" as in Bitcoin is on the way, down with the globalists "New world order".  Go Bitcoin go.

[Branko]

If there is no desire for peace there wont be any, simple as that.
5 days before it all started


[...]

I normally would not answer to your post, as they seem just links for an algorithm or pure crap, but the look of this pic is just too much. Please, on which day did WJS publish this you say?

Thats easy:

https://thepressunited.com/updates/zelensky-rejected-peace-offer-days-before-russian-offensive-wsj/

RT is the actual source.  So, Russia.

Umm, no, WSJ...but you have to pay to view whole article:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/vladimir-putins-20-year-march-to-war-in-ukraineand-how-the-west-mishandled-it-11648826461

funny that you picked RT because it fits your narrative, although RT is source for other stuff in that article, and not the
one Paxmao asked...also, your RT link doesn't work

[paxmao]

If there is no desire for peace there wont be any, simple as that.
5 days before it all started


[...]

I normally would not answer to your post, as they seem just links for an algorithm or pure crap, but the look of this pic is just too much. Please, on which day did WJS publish this you say?

Thats easy:

https://thepressunited.com/updates/zelensky-rejected-peace-offer-days-before-russian-offensive-wsj/

I am asking when the WSJ published it. I am not aware of what is "the press united" but I can tell already that the title "Zelensky rejected a peace offer" is already quite interesting.

- There was no war, so there cannot be a "peace offer".
- "Do as I say or I will kill you" is not a peace offer, is a threat. So the title would be "Zelensky decided to resist Putin's threat instead".

This goes once more to the argument of Putin deciding what can and cannot be done in Ukraine by the use of force and, somehow, blaming Ukraine for it.

...
I'm not suggesting that Europe kowtow to Russia because Russia is stronger.
...

Yes, it is a good idea not to say that other than in a stand-up comedy.

...

Umm, no, WSJ...but you have to pay to view whole article:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/vladimir-putins-20-year-march-to-war-in-ukraineand-how-the-west-mishandled-it-11648826461

funny that you picked RT because it fits your narrative, although RT is source for other stuff in that article, and not the
one Paxmao asked...also, your RT link doesn't work

I see.

[Branko]

I am asking when the WSJ published it. I am not aware of what is "the press united" but I can tell already that the title "Zelensky rejected a peace offer" is already quite interesting.

- There was no war, so there cannot be a "peace offer".
- "Do as I say or I will kill you" is not a peace offer, is a threat. So the title would be "Zelensky decided to resist Putin's threat instead".

This goes once more to the argument of Putin deciding what can and cannot be done in Ukraine by the use of force and, somehow, blaming Ukraine for it.

Just shows west ignorance...there was war going on in Donbas since 2014, its just that victims were mostly Russian minority in Ukraine,
so not worth your attention, I guess

https://www.newsweek.com/evidence-war-crimes-committed-ukrainian-nationalist-volunteers-grows-269604

[be.open]

...
I'm not suggesting that Europe kowtow to Russia because Russia is stronger.
...

Yes, it is a good idea not to say that other than in a stand-up comedy.

Do you want to talk about it? Of course, Russia is now stronger than the European Union in many aspects. First of all, in the military aspect, and this is the main reason why NATO does not directly intervene in the conflict in Ukraine, the alignment of forces is not in favor of NATO. Europe generally acts here as a victim, a sheep for the slaughter. The beneficiaries of the conflict are the USA, Great Britain, Russia, China, India, possibly the Middle East, but definitely not Europe. Europe is doomed to suffer for many years, from the influx of refugees and from the consequences of its own economic sanctions, Europe is no longer a competitor to the United States on the world stage. Europe does not have the right to say "no" and not support the US in the sanctions war against Russia, but also does not have enough support from the population of Europe to clearly explain to people why their quality of life should deteriorate, and significantly. Europe should start raising the key rate (following the US) to cope with rising inflation and curtail the quantitative easing program launched during the covid-19 pandemic. Europe is on the verge of a big stagflation - inflation against the backdrop of a decline in industrial production. In such unfavorable conditions, both internal disagreements in European countries and disagreements between EU members will intensify, because there are donor countries and recipient countries in the European Union. It is highly likely that the European Union will disintegrate altogether and cease to exist in its current form, because the UK's decision on Brexit was apparently very prudent and timely. Europe has fallen victim to its own tolerance, bringing it to the point of absurdity.

In pharmacology, tolerance is a decrease in response to repeated administration of drugs; in immunology, the state of the body in which it is not able to produce antibodies; in transplantology, the inability of the body to distinguish between foreign organs. In a word, tolerance in medicine is the body's addiction. In medicine, complete tolerance means death.

Do I have enough funny humor for stand-up comedy?

Just shows west ignorance...there was war going on in Donbas since 2014, its just that victims were mostly Russian minority in Ukraine,
so not worth your attention, I guess

https://www.newsweek.com/evidence-war-crimes-committed-ukrainian-nationalist-volunteers-grows-269604

There are numerous testimonies and investigations of the crimes of the current Ukrainian government against their own people in the Donbass since 2014, but who cares when Biden (who himself has mud up to his elbows regarding his son’s machinations in Ukraine) pointed the finger at Putin and said who the real killer is.

[paxmao]

...
I'm not suggesting that Europe kowtow to Russia because Russia is stronger.
...

Yes, it is a good idea not to say that other than in a stand-up comedy.

[blah blah... Russia is great.... blah blah Russia is the greatest....

Do you want to talk about it? Of course, Russia is now stronger than the European Union in many aspects. First of all, in the military aspect...

Seriously, Zelensky was a comedian before becoming a president. Yes, that is the guy that Putin said wanted out, threw his army after and failed.

 Are you trying the same path? I mean, becoming a comedian to then depose Putin?

[be.open]

Are you trying the same path? I mean, becoming a comedian to then depose Putin?

Rumor has it that Putin is impossible to depose because he bathes in the menstrual blood of young virgins. Therefore, I prefer to set more realistic goals for myself.

[tvbcof]

Seriously, Zelensky was a comedian before becoming a president. Yes, that is the guy that Putin said wanted out, threw his army after and failed.
...

And already a druggie, homo-erotic dancer, and general post-Soviet billionaire Oligarch butt-boy.

Anyway, I'm guessing that Putin is more than happy to have Zelensky as the titular head of Ukraine (and Biden of America) and if there will be a way to arrange for him to continue on in his present role, Putin would certainly oblige.

[paxmao]

Seriously, Zelensky was a comedian before becoming a president. Yes, that is the guy that Putin said wanted out, threw his army after and failed.
...

And already a druggie, homo-erotic dancer, and general post-Soviet billionaire Oligarch butt-boy.

Anyway, I'm guessing that Putin is more than happy to have Zelensky as the titular head of Ukraine (and Biden of America) and if there will be a way to arrange for him to continue on in his present role, Putin would certainly oblige.

Well, I do not agree, but every insult you throw to the guy that actually resisted Putin is backfiring, you know? Like "Putin could not deal with a drug addict comedian, homo-erotic dancer (not sure that's an insult or a hobby?) and now he is trying to find someone his age to fight with to see it that's any easier (Biden)"

Rumor has it that Putin is impossible to depose because he bathes in the menstrual blood of young virgins.

Yeah, nobody would get near him after that.

[suchmoon]

Here is a joyful statement by the mayor of Bucha on March 31 about the liberation of the city from "Russian occupiers". Not a word about the corpses on the streets and the atrocities of Russian soldiers, a complete victory. And two days later, those terrible photos appear. Something doesn't add up in this story, don't you think?

It's a large city. Russians had left but surveying the damage takes time. One of the first reports of bodies on a street was posted within a day, not two days later:

https://twitter.com/ViktoriiaUAH/status/1509985789404459011

Not to mention a drone video of a roadside execution a few weeks ago and other evidence that aligns with what was found in the aftermath of the retreat.

Both episodes turned out to be fakes.

Saying so doesn't make it so.

high-quality montages like videos of Russian aircraft inflicting airstrikes on Paris and Berlin

Fucking hell... no one is claiming that this appeal-to-NATO video is a documentary. If that's your "proof" of fakes then you're either far dumber than I thought or your handlers think that we're all idiots.

https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1502526143806726145

[be.open]

Here is a joyful statement by the mayor of Bucha on March 31 about the liberation of the city from "Russian occupiers". Not a word about the corpses on the streets and the atrocities of Russian soldiers, a complete victory. And two days later, those terrible photos appear. Something doesn't add up in this story, don't you think?

It's a large city. Russians had left but surveying the damage takes time. One of the first reports of bodies on a street was posted within a day, not two days later:

https://twitter.com/ViktoriiaUAH/status/1509985789404459011

Not to mention a drone video of a roadside execution a few weeks ago and other evidence that aligns with what was found in the aftermath of the retreat.

Anyway, the time does not converge, the Russian army left Bucha on March 30, the video of the mayor about the victory was recorded on March 31 (posted on the network on April 1, but he says in the video that "March 31 will go down in history, etc."). Here is a detailed analysis of this staged video, read the full material is quite extensive.

Both episodes turned out to be fakes.

Saying so doesn't make it so.

Those fakes were also laid out in detail on the bones. The main star of the story about the maternity hospital turned out to be beauty blogger Marianna Podgurskaya, who then gave an interview in which she told what exactly happened. The theater was blown up by the Azov militants, trying to stage a rather absurd Russian bombardment.

high-quality montages like videos of Russian aircraft inflicting airstrikes on Paris and Berlin

Fucking hell... no one is claiming that this appeal-to-NATO video is a documentary. If that's your "proof" of fakes then you're either far dumber than I thought or your handlers think that we're all idiots.

https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1502526143806726145

I didn’t say that those videos were documentary, I meant that Ukrainian propaganda, releasing such fantasy videos with fairly high-quality rendering, discredited itself in order not to believe any photo and video evidence of the Ukrainian side at first, and then, after a deeper analysis, make sure that this is really fake.

Well, I do not agree, but every insult you throw to the guy that actually resisted Putin is backfiring, you know?

Zelensky is a mediocre actor, but his success in the political arena once again clearly showed that public politics is show business. There are a lot of people from show business in Zelensky’s headquarters, and in the information war against Russia, these show business skills are actively used by him. Informational reasons are being invented, stuffing, fakes and provocations are being actively created, mass consciousness is being manipulated, plausible myths are being created, and everywhere lies, lies, lies. No matter how great the real successes of Russia in this operation, it is important how Ukrainian propaganda presents them to creditors from the West. This is the only reason why I am writing here, wasting my time for free every day, although it would be wiser for me to remain silent. I just don't like lies.