Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[Tash]

Lviv soccer fans at a game against Donesk
The Ukrainian banner reads "Bandera- our hero"


Gerhard Lindner general in the wehrmacht, Christian Lindner German politician (FDP)
German chancellor, Olaf Scholz grandson of SS general
Józef Tusk seved in wehrmacht was the grandfather of the former Prime Minister of Poland, Donald Tusk

[Toughit]

Although I guess it's better than the completely retarded "The Ukranians are bombing and executing themselves" defense that the guy above me keeps claiming.

Aren't Ukrainians already shelling their own for the last 8 years?

Donetsk and Luhansk are break away republics. Ukrainiens love them so much to attack them regulary.

Maybe I'm missing something, but from what I can tell reading the internet....

A terrorist organization, Russia, got angry at Ukraine for overthrowing a puppet Russian government in 2014, and illegally invaded Crimea as a form of reprisal.  Crimea rightfully belongs to Ukraine today.

At the same time it appears that Russia funded two other terrorist organizations in  Donetsk and Luhansk,inciting them to cause trouble in a peaceful area of Ukraine.

Had Russia kept their nose inside of their own territory, there would have been peace in Donetsk and Luhansk.

So, looks like Ukraine has been fighting two Russia sponsored terrorist organizations in Donetsk and Luhansk as defense against Russian supplied terrorists.

It always seem to come back to Russia as the aggressor.

[Toughit]

Jokes apart, I am the kind of person that, provided an explanation, even if complex, can certainly understand it (even if it is rocket science - literally).

I think I explained in sufficient detail (maybe even too much) why this rocket could not fly from Shakhtyorsk, the question is whether you are capable of listening to reasonable arguments at all? In the previous message, I gave you another thread, by pulling which you can find out the truth - the amount of unburned fuel in the fuel compartment of the tail section. It's up to you what to do with it.

It's OK if you consider me a victim of Russian propaganda or a stupid bum from the couch troops of a slow selective response. I see no point in trying to dissuade you from this.

So.. question, has Russia cut off internet access to the rest of the world?

Is so, how is Be's propaganda getting out?

If they have it would imply Be is not in Russia, despite the obvious distaste for western freedom?

As far as the rocket goes, Russia has acquired lots of Ukraine's weapons, Ukraine has a lot of Russian ammo left behind in vehicles running out of fuel, so it just comes down to the credibility, who is most likely to shell innocent people. 

Obviously Russia.

[be.open]

So.. question, has Russia cut off internet access to the rest of the world?

RosKomNadzor selectively blocks some sites, including this one. Block bypass is technically simple and there is no punishment for it, because there is no corpus delicti.

Article 29 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation guarantees everyone freedom of thought and speech, the right to freely seek, receive, transmit, produce and disseminate information in any legal way; freedom of the media is guaranteed; censorship is prohibited.

Thus, I have access to any open information on the network, no matter Russian, Ukrainian or Western.

Is so, how is Be's propaganda getting out?

If they have it would imply Be is not in Russia, despite the obvious distaste for western freedom?

Geographically, I am now in Russia.

[Toughit]

So.. question, has Russia cut off internet access to the rest of the world?

RosKomNadzor selectively blocks some sites, including this one. Block bypass is technically simple and there is no punishment for it, because there is no corpus delicti.

Article 29 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation guarantees everyone freedom of thought and speech, the right to freely seek, receive, transmit, produce and disseminate information in any legal way; freedom of the media is guaranteed; censorship is prohibited.

Geographically, I am now in Russia.

And, by Russia, do you mean in Russia territory from before 2014, or somewhere in Ukraine or Belarus which has open internet?

Serious question, Westerners are led to believe news is Russia is very tightly controlled to support leaderships narrative, I would think the common Russian citizen is risking a LOT if they bypass the blocks on the control! 

Kind of saying, you might have government permission to post pro-Russian rhetoric?

As far as freedom of thought and speech, that does not reconcile with pictures we see of 80 year old women and others being arrested for holding blank pieces of paper.

[af_newbie]

So.. question, has Russia cut off internet access to the rest of the world?

RosKomNadzor selectively blocks some sites, including this one. Block bypass is technically simple and there is no punishment for it, because there is no corpus delicti.

Article 29 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation guarantees everyone freedom of thought and speech, the right to freely seek, receive, transmit, produce and disseminate information in any legal way; freedom of the media is guaranteed; censorship is prohibited.

Thus, I have access to any open information on the network, no matter Russian, Ukrainian or Western.

Is so, how is Be's propaganda getting out?

If they have it would imply Be is not in Russia, despite the obvious distaste for western freedom?

Geographically, I am now in Russia.

https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=709535326860454

[Branko]

So.. question, has Russia cut off internet access to the rest of the world?

RosKomNadzor selectively blocks some sites, including this one. Block bypass is technically simple and there is no punishment for it, because there is no corpus delicti.

Article 29 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation guarantees everyone freedom of thought and speech, the right to freely seek, receive, transmit, produce and disseminate information in any legal way; freedom of the media is guaranteed; censorship is prohibited.

Geographically, I am now in Russia.

And, by Russia, do you mean in Russia territory from before 2014, or somewhere in Ukraine or Belarus which has open internet?

Serious question, Westerners are led to believe news is Russia is very tightly controlled to support leaderships narrative, I would think the common Russian citizen is risking a LOT if they bypass the blocks on the control! 

Kind of saying, you might have government permission to post pro-Russian rhetoric?

As far as freedom of thought and speech, that does not reconcile with pictures we see of 80 year old women and others being arrested for holding blank pieces of paper.

Westerners believe in a lot of crap. Obviously, you too

Try to read this one westerner,  former colonel of the General Staff, ex-member of the Swiss strategic intelligence, specialist on Eastern countries

https://www.thepostil.com/the-military-situation-in-the-ukraine/

Unfortunately, its not 2-line article that many people in West prefer, but if you don't read it, you're looking at events through
filter much more restrictive than the one you think be.open is behind

[be.open]

And, by Russia, do you mean in Russia territory from before 2014, or somewhere in Ukraine or Belarus which has open internet?

Ural, near Yekaterinburg.

Serious question, Westerners are led to believe news is Russia is very tightly controlled to support leaderships narrative, I would think the common Russian citizen is risking a LOT if they bypass the blocks on the control! 

It looks like you are a victim of Western propaganda.

Kind of saying, you might have government permission to post pro-Russian rhetoric?

I write here as a private person, for free, in my spare time and not affiliated with any pro-government structures.

As far as freedom of thought and speech, that does not reconcile with pictures we see of 80 year old women and others being arrested for holding blank pieces of paper.

Theoretically, I could face up to 15 years in prison for spreading fake news about the military operation in Ukraine. Or there may be trouble with the FSB for divulging information constituting a state secret (this is partly why I try not to pedal the subject of the internal structure of missiles in technical details). I have to pass my posts here through a self-moderation filter, which undoubtedly affects their objectivity and perhaps the overall tone of my posts from this is a little more pro-Russian than my true view of things. This does not mean that I am lying to you, it means that I say a little less than I could say about this.

[Toughit]

So.. question, has Russia cut off internet access to the rest of the world?

RosKomNadzor selectively blocks some sites, including this one. Block bypass is technically simple and there is no punishment for it, because there is no corpus delicti.

Article 29 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation guarantees everyone freedom of thought and speech, the right to freely seek, receive, transmit, produce and disseminate information in any legal way; freedom of the media is guaranteed; censorship is prohibited.

Geographically, I am now in Russia.

And, by Russia, do you mean in Russia territory from before 2014, or somewhere in Ukraine or Belarus which has open internet?

Serious question, Westerners are led to believe news is Russia is very tightly controlled to support leaderships narrative, I would think the common Russian citizen is risking a LOT if they bypass the blocks on the control!  

Kind of saying, you might have government permission to post pro-Russian rhetoric?

As far as freedom of thought and speech, that does not reconcile with pictures we see of 80 year old women and others being arrested for holding blank pieces of paper.

Westerners believe in a lot of crap. Obviously, you too

Try to read this one westerner,  former colonel of the General Staff, ex-member of the Swiss strategic intelligence, specialist on Eastern countries

https://www.thepostil.com/the-military-situation-in-the-ukraine/

Unfortunately, its not 2-line article that many people in West prefer, but if you don't read it, you're looking at events through
filter much more restrictive than the one you think be.open is behind

Well, yes, there are probably groups of people in every country identifying as Nazi's. I know there are in US (at least the press tells me so) Here is one for Russia: https://theconversation.com/putins-fascists-the-russian-states-long-history-of-cultivating-homegrown-neo-nazis-178535. Is it 100% factual, doubt it, but some parts probably are.

I think we are all a product of our environment.  Usually I like watching Fox news, but lately CNN has better coverage of  the the Russian terrorism in Ukraine. Neither channel is telling the entire truth though, just picking what they think will draw viewers!  (Fox would lead me to believe our VP is a complete idiot, can that be true?)

But, does perceived Nazism justify destroying two counties?


But back to the point, if Russia is the bastion of freedom of speech, whats with all of the protestors being arrested?

[paxmao]

Jokes apart, I am the kind of person that, provided an explanation, even if complex, can certainly understand it (even if it is rocket science - literally).

I think I explained in sufficient detail (maybe even too much) why this rocket could not fly from Shakhtyorsk, the question is whether you are capable of listening to reasonable arguments at all? In the previous message, I gave you another thread, by pulling which you can find out the truth - the amount of unburned fuel in the fuel compartment of the tail section. It's up to you what to do with it.

It's OK if you consider me a victim of Russian propaganda or a stupid bum from the couch troops of a slow selective response. I see no point in trying to dissuade you from this.

You are not a victim of propaganda, you are the propaganda.

You have given details but no proof. E.g. How much of the fuel was left. In your expert opinion, how did the very knowledgeable Russian Ministry of whateverthef*ck measured the remaining fuel of that (exploded) rocket on Ukrainian soil? Where is the proof of the "angle" you mention, how did they reach their conclusions?

You see, we poor ignorant people do not have St Nicholas cell number and are too poor to consult and Astrologist to find out, so we tend to rely on documentary evidence and, if not available, in some logic to the situation.

e.g. Why would Ukraine attack a train station that is critical to reinforce their troops.

...

Article 29 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation guarantees everyone freedom of thought and speech, the right to freely seek, receive, transmit, produce and disseminate information in any legal way; freedom of the media is guaranteed; censorship is prohibited.

...

And we all know who decides what is legal, don't we? You could as well put in there that all citizens are entitled to free hot-dogs on Saturdays.

[Branko]

e.g. Why would Ukraine attack a train station that is critical to reinforce their troops.

Why would Russia attack station with rocket made to kill people, and not with one that would destroy
train station? Damage to station itself is negligible.
Russia instead supposedly used rocket made to damage their reputation

Remember Assad? That stupid guy always gassed his own people when it was politically worst moment for him.
(or at least USA media wanted us to believe that, but UN investigation told otherwise)

[be.open]

You are the victim of Russian propaganda.

You are the victim of Russian propaganda.

You are not a victim of propaganda, you are the propaganda.

I think I got promoted, I'll take that as a compliment.

Why would Ukraine attack a train station that is critical to reinforce their troops.

Cluster warheads are designed to destroy manpower and lightly armored targets; unlike high-explosive ones, they do not cause significant infrastructure damage. Many civilians died in this terrible tragedy, but the railway station itself did not seem to have been particularly affected.

[PrimeNumber7]

Something to ponder on. We know that Russia did not expect the Ukrainians to put up such stiff and determined resistance; this explains why units went in unprepared (many buoys were under the impression that they would be welcome and where only told they were going in 48-72 hours prior); why Russia limited the number of targets it hit, etc but now that things are obviously going ratshit why aren't the Russians deploying some of the capabilities they have but so appeared to have held back?

Seems like there's a decent chance one of the cliffs notes for this chapter of the Global History books will be about what corruption did to Russias Military and Putins miscalculation in relying on the reputation of his army rather than his actual army.

The threat of overwhelming force can be enough to get an opposing army to lay down their arms. Wars have been won this way, as have battles. In WW2 for example, the axis were able to capture much of the pacific front by showing an overwhelming force.

Putins problem is that his military is apparently not very strong. Putin is committing nearly all his military resources towards Ukraine, and there is a stalemate at best.

This isn't the first time Russia has been in this position, either.  There are a ton of similarities between what's going on now and the first few weeks of the first Chechen war.  Russia sends a bunch of young, untrained conscripts to invade a country, gets ass whooped, demoralized. Google the Storming of Grozny if it interests you.

They ended up working out some sort of agreement, until Putin became president 5 or 6 years later.  Putin decided to break the agreement and just bomb the shit out of them until the there was basically nothing left.

It appears in the case of Ukraine that the Russian troops were mostly lied to about the reasons they are fighting. Before the invasion, Putin had publicly said the reason for the military buildup was a training exercise, and it appears the Russian troops were fed the same lie. There are also reports that Russian troops had their phones confiscated so they cannot speak to their families to get a more accurate understanding of the war.

There are some signs that Russia is planning on using similar tactics as Putin did in the second battle of Grozny, as there has been some indiscriminate shelling of buildings, and the bombings of the childrens hospital.

 

[be.open]

There are also reports that Russian troops had their phones confiscated so they cannot speak to their families to get a more accurate understanding of the war.

Russian soldiers are banned from smartphones for security reasons. The experience of foreign mercenaries in Ukraine, who first post their geolocation on the net, and then a rocket flies there and turns them into a piece of "well done" meat, clearly hints that these precautions are not in vain. They seem to be able to use a regular cell phone to call their families. Smartphones can also be used by operators of reconnaissance drones for official purposes and fighters of the Chechen Kadyrov Regiment (for whom the issue of their combat image in the media space is apparently more important than personal safety).

It was a big mistake for Ukraine to torture and execute Russian prisoners of war on camera. I personally know people with combat experience who a month ago had a neutral or even negative attitude towards this operation, and now they are ready to take up arms again.

[paxmao]

...
It was a big mistake for Ukraine to torture and execute Russian prisoners of war on camera. I personally know people with combat experience who a month ago had a neutral or even negative attitude towards this operation, and now they are ready to take up arms again.

You mean that some Russians do not support Putin's war? And some of them were your friends?

I rarely post videos nor see videos from other people's post, since most of the time they are intended to increase the algorithm ratings of propaganda , but this one is very illustrative of the true reasons behind this aggression and is relatively neutral, just states the strategic contex.

https://youtu.be/BftqoZOryDo?t=629

It even explains Chinas yes / but no / but maybe position.

The bit that bests responds to the reformulated strategy would be here:

https://youtu.be/BftqoZOryDo?t=889

If you see this, you may understand why Europe will not stop sending resources to help Ukraine.

[be.open]

...
It was a big mistake for Ukraine to torture and execute Russian prisoners of war on camera. I personally know people with combat experience who a month ago had a neutral or even negative attitude towards this operation, and now they are ready to take up arms again.

You mean that some Russians do not support Putin's war? And some of them were your friends?

Yes, they are still my friends. You don't have to think the same way to be friends.

If you see this, you may understand why Europe will not stop sending resources to help Ukraine.

You and I are talking here, and the soldiers on the battlefield are doing their job. And the Russian soldiers are doing their job well. Europe's monetary and military aid will not help Ukraine against Russia, just as it has never helped Europe itself. There is no question of "who will win?" There are only questions of the number of victims and the scale of destruction.

There are such friends who are better to have as enemies, so they are at least of some use. But it is more prudent and much more profitable to be friends with Russia than to fight. Russia does not need a devastated Europe, it is beneficial for the United States, but not for Russia. Therefore, Russia does not break ties with Europe in a unilateral fashion, despite the hysteria with sanctions and the anti-Russian rhetoric of a number of European politicians.

[suchmoon]

You are the victim of Russian propaganda.

You are the victim of Russian propaganda.

You are not a victim of propaganda, you are the propaganda.

I think I got promoted, I'll take that as a compliment.

I think paxmao is giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that you couldn't be dumb enough to genuinely believe the shit you're posting.

[Branko]

It was a big mistake for Ukraine to torture and execute Russian prisoners of war on camera. I personally know people with combat experience who a month ago had a neutral or even negative attitude towards this operation, and now they are ready to take up arms again.

Ukrainians will suffer...but I don't think you should blame them...outside factors want Russia to bleed, and they'll help Ukraine,
but they're not interested in Ukraine fast win, they want both sides destructed as much as possible
Sowing as much hatred is one of goals

[Marvelman]

You and I are talking here, and the soldiers on the battlefield are doing their job. And the Russian soldiers are doing their job well. Europe's monetary and military aid will not help Ukraine against Russia, just as it has never helped Europe itself.

You continue to spread lies and misinformation here, and I have no idea why. The Russian invasion has already failed in its primary objectives, and is being reorganized to accomplish secondary objectives, the so-called "phase 2". However it will also fail, and all that will remain in the end are the thousands of lives that were lost in vain.

Ukrainians will suffer...

Yes, Ukrainians will suffer ... But Ukrainians will be helped, and their cities will be rebuilt. Russian suffering, however, is yet to come and will last for decades.

Sowing as much hatred is one of goals

And whose fault is that?

[paxmao]

You are the victim of Russian propaganda.

You are the victim of Russian propaganda.

You are not a victim of propaganda, you are the propaganda.

I think I got promoted, I'll take that as a compliment.

I think paxmao is giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that you couldn't be dumb enough to genuinely believe the shit you're posting.

That is right, I am trying very hard to believe he just thinks he is doing some kind of patriotic work, helping his friends in the military or something like that, but if the guy is really believing all that... I do not feel capable of de-programming someone with that level of brainwash on-line.