Tyson Fury vs Francis Ngannou Boxing October 28

[KTChampions]

So it turns out that if one boxer threw 100 punches and the other zero, but was able to stay on his feet, then the score will only be 10-9 in favor of the first boxer?

Depends. As far as I know a round could be scored 10-8 even if there was no knock-down, if one of the fighters was totally dominating and dealing a lot of damage and if it was a one-sided performance and/or the other fighter was clearly saved by the bell from getting KOed.
Looking only at the number of punches landed could turn boxing into some bizzare match when boxers are focussed on touching the opponent with large volume of zero-power punches just so they could "land" it.
We have this score systems for a reason, even if sometimes it seems unfair.

Yep, i got the point. In general, I initially understood this, but this does not mean that I agree with it so wanted to discuss it. For me this is illogical and opens up scope for manipulation. It would be strange if in football the score in the first half was 3-0 and the score in the second half was 0-1 and the final score was the same, but in boxing this is possible. And I also know that all judges interpret body blows differently, not all consider them to be “real” blows.

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[pawel7777]

Yep, i got the point. In general, I initially understood this, but this does not mean that I agree with it so wanted to discuss it. For me this is illogical and opens up scope for manipulation. It would be strange if in football the score in the first half was 3-0 and the score in the second half was 0-1 and the final score was the same, but in boxing this is possible. And I also know that all judges interpret body blows differently, not all consider them to be “real” blows.

Yes, there's a lot of room for manipulation and we've seen some outrageous decisions in the past, but this system is still best than any other.
As for boxing and football, they are hardly comparable, as I mentioned before, landing a punch just for the sake of it should not be the goal. Punches must be effective and cause damage.

Recent news about Ngannou, apparently he rejected an offer to fight Anthony Joshua in December and would rather sit out and wait for a rematch with Fury. I was surprised at first but I kind of understand that. Fury is very likely to accept the rematch after fighting Usyk, and it's guaranteed to be a big money fight (especially if Fury manages to win with Usyk and unify the belts). But if Ngannou was to accept Joshua fight (likely for much less money) and if he was dominated or KOed, the chances of rematch with Fury would get much slimmer.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/24674760/francis-ngannou-anthony-joshua-fight-december-ufc-next-opponent/

[cryptomaniac_xxx]

Yep, i got the point. In general, I initially understood this, but this does not mean that I agree with it so wanted to discuss it. For me this is illogical and opens up scope for manipulation. It would be strange if in football the score in the first half was 3-0 and the score in the second half was 0-1 and the final score was the same, but in boxing this is possible. And I also know that all judges interpret body blows differently, not all consider them to be “real” blows.

Yes, there's a lot of room for manipulation and we've seen some outrageous decisions in the past, but this system is still best than any other.
As for boxing and football, they are hardly comparable, as I mentioned before, landing a punch just for the sake of it should not be the goal. Punches must be effective and cause damage.

Recent news about Ngannou, apparently he rejected an offer to fight Anthony Joshua in December and would rather sit out and wait for a rematch with Fury. I was surprised at first but I kind of understand that. Fury is very likely to accept the rematch after fighting Usyk, and it's guaranteed to be a big money fight (especially if Fury manages to win with Usyk and unify the belts). But if Ngannou was to accept Joshua fight (likely for much less money) and if he was dominated or KOed, the chances of rematch with Fury would get much slimmer.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/24674760/francis-ngannou-anthony-joshua-fight-december-ufc-next-opponent/

I thought that the fight that is being work here is AJ vs Fury, and it is supposedly to be as the undercard in the Fury vs Usyk fight in December. So I'm just surprised that the camp of AJ will suddenly offer a fight against Ngannou as it is a big risk low reward for them. Francis has also the power and it's very hard to see AJ dominating this fight as he has problems with Ruiz a big heavy hitter in their first fight.

https://www.boxingnews24.com/2023/11/deontay-wilder-wants-meeting-with-anthony-joshua-to-put-fight-together/

Deontay Wilder says he wants to travel to England to meet with Anthony Joshua to put together a mega-fight with him. He says he knows that Joshua is “afraid” of him, but he still feels that he can reason to make him understand that their clash is the “biggest fight in the world.”

[cabron]

Yep, i got the point. In general, I initially understood this, but this does not mean that I agree with it so wanted to discuss it. For me this is illogical and opens up scope for manipulation. It would be strange if in football the score in the first half was 3-0 and the score in the second half was 0-1 and the final score was the same, but in boxing this is possible. And I also know that all judges interpret body blows differently, not all consider them to be “real” blows.

Yes, there's a lot of room for manipulation and we've seen some outrageous decisions in the past, but this system is still best than any other.
As for boxing and football, they are hardly comparable, as I mentioned before, landing a punch just for the sake of it should not be the goal. Punches must be effective and cause damage.

Recent news about Ngannou, apparently he rejected an offer to fight Anthony Joshua in December and would rather sit out and wait for a rematch with Fury. I was surprised at first but I kind of understand that. Fury is very likely to accept the rematch after fighting Usyk, and it's guaranteed to be a big money fight (especially if Fury manages to win with Usyk and unify the belts). But if Ngannou was to accept Joshua fight (likely for much less money) and if he was dominated or KOed, the chances of rematch with Fury would get much slimmer.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/24674760/francis-ngannou-anthony-joshua-fight-december-ufc-next-opponent/

AJ seems a good opportunity for Francis. He has been shutting up opportunities for him to make big money and chase a lost fight. It doesn't matter whether he gets a rematch or not, he proved himself that he can fight in boxing that's the very point of him getting out of UFC.  So right now he is willing to wait while Fury will just lay around with his 50M and if he won't fight up to 5 years, Francis will just waste his only years left.

With the controversial decision, I don't think Fury will ever give him the rematch, Fury will just laugh at him. I thought it was fixed already that he will be fighting this Dec with either AJ or Wilder.

[Russlenat]

AJ seems a good opportunity for Francis. He has been shutting up opportunities for him to make big money and chase a lost fight. It doesn't matter whether he gets a rematch or not, he proved himself that he can fight in boxing that's the very point of him getting out of UFC.  So right now he is willing to wait while Fury will just lay around with his 50M and if he won't fight up to 5 years, Francis will just waste his only years left.

Fury won't relax for that long, he is used to making big bucks in boxing, so he'll maximize the opportunity to make more money while he is still on his prime. He might not fight Francis soon but he would sure get bigger fights especially if he'll beat Usyk.

With the controversial decision, I don't think Fury will ever give him the rematch, Fury will just laugh at him. I thought it was fixed already that he will be fighting this Dec with either AJ or Wilder.

There's no fix decision yet, all of what we read could only be rumors, Usyk isn't 100% yet and Fury probably on the healing period now.

AJ vs Wilder, I think they could fight as they haven't been busy lately, but the unification is going to be next year for Usyk and Fury.

[FinneysTrueVision]

Recent news about Ngannou, apparently he rejected an offer to fight Anthony Joshua in December and would rather sit out and wait for a rematch with Fury. I was surprised at first but I kind of understand that. Fury is very likely to accept the rematch after fighting Usyk, and it's guaranteed to be a big money fight (especially if Fury manages to win with Usyk and unify the belts). But if Ngannou was to accept Joshua fight (likely for much less money) and if he was dominated or KOed, the chances of rematch with Fury would get much slimmer.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/24674760/francis-ngannou-anthony-joshua-fight-december-ufc-next-opponent/

Hearn was probably just looking for publicity and it wasn’t really a serious offer he made to Ngannou. Using other fighter’s names to grab headlines is his favorite tactic. He wants some of that Saudi money so he will try to hype up Anthony Joshua any way he can. He’s been talking about AJ vs Wilder forever and also AJ vs Fury but has been unable to make either of those happen.

[inthelongrun]

Time to talk about Fury's willingness to face Usyk and what's next for Ngannou. Fury trained at McDonald's in this fight so I still doubt Ngannou can beat any of the top 20 in boxing. Derek Chisora is Ngannou's easiest fight that is also marketable but the former is most likely to win if given proper time to train and isn't paid to take a dive.

Why not go directly against popular heavyweight boxers like Joshua and Wilder, for instance? I mean, if Ngannou almost beat Fury, I'm sure he can compete well against boxers who have a lower ranking compared to Fury. However, if what you stated is true that Fury trained at McDonald's in that certain fight, then I guess Ngannou was just overrated.

Pretty sure Ngannou will only look for the next biggest offer. A lot of promoters are negotiating. Promoters are racing who gets him first. It seems like they are looking at Ngannou as easy money for their fighters.

With what Ngannou did to fury that he almost beat the champ, people would expect to see him fight more if that rematch will not happen anytime sooner. I feel that even Ngannou just recently make his debut in boxing, he will be a problem to the active boxers, so a big name in boxing against him will certainly make a lot of money for promoters.

I like Ngannou and I am hoping he's for real. But until I see him deliver another impressive performance in boxing I am still not buying. I still believe unheralded and old fighters like Chisora will beat him.

But I like Ngannou countering Wilder by saying that he will fight him if they have a 2-fight contract, 1 in boxing and the other 1 in MMA. I can only hope that there are willing sponsors for an MMA fight, otherwise, Ngannou will be forced to only box Wilder. But there's also AJ and the potential Usyk-Fury winner.

That's not gonna happen, and besides, if they'll fight in boxing, they will make way bigger money compared to what they'll make in UFC. a 2 fight contract is okay though, but it should be both in boxing, that way they'll increse their income especially if the first fight is a close one.

We'll see, maybe Saudi or a group of investors are willing to shed money for an MMA fight. And Wilder actually said that he is thinking of fighting in MMA.

So far Ngannou is planning to make his PFL debut and then back into boxing. He really wants a Fury rematch even sending a message requesting Usyk to step aside. I doubt the Ukrainian will even care to respond though, Ngannou is a just nuisance to him.

He should focus in boxing as that's where he'll make a lot of money, and he has to be patient though, Usyk won't step aside as he'll also make a lot of money with his unification fight with Fury.

Absolutely, there is no way Usyk gives in. I can't even see any posts or interviews of him responding to Ngannou's request to step aside. As for Ngannou, he's got a contract with PFL. Maybe he'll just cherry-pick a weak opponent to make sure his hype won't fade.

The scorecard that has to be the most dubious is the one that scored 96/93 in favour of Fury.

I reviewed the scorecards again based only on the second and the third judge. Out of the 10 rounds, they only disagreed 3 times, in rounds 1, 4, and 7 which means these rounds were somewhat close and difficult to score. They both gave Fury rounds 2, 5, 6 and 9. Ngannou got 3, 8 and 10. So if in case these two judges gave all the disputed rounds to Fury, it'll be 96-93 in favor of the champion.

[JollyGood]

The other two judges awarded 95/94 and 94/95 therefore it was a closer fight in their opinions but the gulf between them and 96/93 is unacceptable if all three were watching the same fight. It is not just about who landed more jabs and punches, it is about the intent of the jabs and punches landed. Either way, this one is very difficult to understand how Fury won the fight on points because Ngannou was the one with far more aggression and intent that Fury.

The scorecard that has to be the most dubious is the one that scored 96/93 in favour of Fury.

I reviewed the scorecards again based only on the second and the third judge. Out of the 10 rounds, they only disagreed 3 times, in rounds 1, 4, and 7 which means these rounds were somewhat close and difficult to score. They both gave Fury rounds 2, 5, 6 and 9. Ngannou got 3, 8 and 10. So if in case these two judges gave all the disputed rounds to Fury, it'll be 96-93 in favor of the champion.

[TopTort777]

What a hot discussion here Do you think we need a rematch? Why not make another poll? Even though Fury won in a split decision, I dont think there should be a rematch. The problem was not because Ngannou is so good and can fight with champions on equal level, but simply because Fury underestimated him. If they would have a rematch I dont think that Fury is going to be so passive and slow. Because in that fight he did not show any footwork and tactics. He was rather straightforward. There were no tricks from him. He was only better at talking before the fight.

[Sanitough]

What a hot discussion here Do you think we need a rematch? Why not make another poll? Even though Fury won in a split decision, I dont think there should be a rematch. The problem was not because Ngannou is so good and can fight with champions on equal level, but simply because Fury underestimated him. If they would have a rematch I dont think that Fury is going to be so passive and slow. Because in that fight he did not show any footwork and tactics. He was rather straightforward. There were no tricks from him. He was only better at talking before the fight.

He knew he was in for a big fight, and he made $50 million from it. So, how could anyone think he wasn't preparing for that bout like he did for his past fights? I believe Ngannou deserves some respect, especially after he managed to floor Fury. That's a significant sign that Ngannou has the capability to beat Fury.

So, instead of making speculations or excuses about why Fury didn't win convincingly, maybe we should just wait for a rematch. After all, why would Fury say no to another $50 million or possibly even more?

[JollyGood]

Fury should not have a rematch with Ngannou, that is now in the past. Fury should be focused on trying to fight Usyk and trying to unify the belts to become the undisputed heavyweight champion (either that or Usyk will). He seemed to be on a decline after the highs of beating Wilder because he has been fighting boxers he was head and shoulders better than therefore a fight against Usyk just might make Fury elevate his game and enjoy boxing again.

Even though Fury won in a split decision, I dont think there should be a rematch. The problem was not because Ngannou is so good and can fight with champions on equal level, but simply because Fury underestimated him. If they would have a rematch I dont think that Fury is going to be so passive and slow.

[Russlenat]

Before Usyk entered the scene, Wilder was considered Fury's toughest opponent. In fact, many believed Wilder would win the fight, and he was the heavy favorite on sports betting sites. Wilder was -160 in the first fight and -125 in the second one. He was actually the underdog in their last bout, and he lost because Fury had figured out how to beat him. Although Fury had already defeated Wilder in their rematch, the last fight was a pretty dominant win for him.

Fury should not have a rematch with Ngannou, that is now in the past. Fury should be focused on trying to fight Usyk and trying to unify the belts to become the undisputed heavyweight champion (either that or Usyk will). He seemed to be on a decline after the highs of beating Wilder because he has been fighting boxers he was head and shoulders better than therefore a fight against Usyk just might make Fury elevate his game and enjoy boxing again.

Even though Fury won in a split decision, I dont think there should be a rematch. The problem was not because Ngannou is so good and can fight with champions on equal level, but simply because Fury underestimated him. If they would have a rematch I dont think that Fury is going to be so passive and slow.

[pawel7777]

What a hot discussion here Do you think we need a rematch? Why not make another poll? Even though Fury won in a split decision, I dont think there should be a rematch. The problem was not because Ngannou is so good and can fight with champions on equal level, but simply because Fury underestimated him. If they would have a rematch I dont think that Fury is going to be so passive and slow. Because in that fight he did not show any footwork and tactics. He was rather straightforward. There were no tricks from him. He was only better at talking before the fight.

I agree that we could use a new poll, but I disagree that there shouldn't be a rematch. So the only argument is that we can assume that Fury underestimated Francis and he would surely destroy him in a rematch? By that logic, why do we have any fights at all, why not just make assumptions on who would defeat who 
Fury himself admitted that he came properly prepared and did not underestimate Ngannou's skills, so there's no reason not to believe him.
He will fight with Usyk anyway, so there's no need he can't fight Francis again after that. I think the exceptionally good performance of Francis put a dent in entire boxing as a sport, so it's in everyone's interest to have Fury proving to the world that he can do better than the first time around.

[JollyGood]

Where does that leave Fury and Usyk? If over time Fury had worked out how to defeat Wilder how does that affect the Fury vs Usyk possible fight? In my opinion if this Fury/Usyk drama was to continue the best thing that can happen in order to add pressure on both Fury and Usyk, is for Joshua to fight Wilder. That would really add a new dimension to the heavyweight division.

Before Usyk entered the scene, Wilder was considered Fury's toughest opponent. In fact, many believed Wilder would win the fight, and he was the heavy favorite on sports betting sites. Wilder was -160 in the first fight and -125 in the second one. He was actually the underdog in their last bout, and he lost because Fury had figured out how to beat him. Although Fury had already defeated Wilder in their rematch, the last fight was a pretty dominant win for him.

[eaLiTy]

~
Where does that leave Fury and Usyk? If over time Fury had worked out how to defeat Wilder how does that affect the Fury vs Usyk possible fight? In my opinion if this Fury/Usyk drama was to continue the best thing that can happen in order to add pressure on both Fury and Usyk, is for Joshua to fight Wilder. That would really add a new dimension to the heavyweight division.

After the beating Tyson Fury got from Ngannou he needs to have proper rest and recovery before facing Oleksandr Usyk and it is the best decision to extend the timeline of the fight and most probably it will happen early 2024.

Joshua and Wilder camp is trying to set the fight for sometime now, they were really expecting the Saudi's to host and spent money but there is a shift in management that organize these fights and their management was talking to the other party who do not have authority. Their timeline for the event is also early next year.

[cabron]

AJ seems a good opportunity for Francis. He has been shutting up opportunities for him to make big money and chase a lost fight. It doesn't matter whether he gets a rematch or not, he proved himself that he can fight in boxing that's the very point of him getting out of UFC.  So right now he is willing to wait while Fury will just lay around with his 50M and if he won't fight up to 5 years, Francis will just waste his only years left.

Fury won't relax for that long, he is used to making big bucks in boxing, so he'll maximize the opportunity to make more money while he is still on his prime. He might not fight Francis soon but he would sure get bigger fights especially if he'll beat Usyk.

With the controversial decision, I don't think Fury will ever give him the rematch, Fury will just laugh at him. I thought it was fixed already that he will be fighting this Dec with either AJ or Wilder.

There's no fix decision yet, all of what we read could only be rumors, Usyk isn't 100% yet and Fury probably on the healing period now.

AJ vs Wilder, I think they could fight as they haven't been busy lately, but the unification is going to be next year for Usyk and Fury.

Now that Francis pissed Fury off by making comments, I really doubt he will give Francis a chance to get back at him, he'd waste the time til Francis aged 40 while Fury sits around as father time got him already. He will fight Usyk and then after that another year of rest for him but for instance, Fury lost against Usyk which will likely happen by the way, fury will not just rest for a year.

But the point is Francis should fight in boxing just whoever is ready to take a fight as long as he gets money for doing it.

[TopTort777]

What a hot discussion here Do you think we need a rematch? Why not make another poll? Even though Fury won in a split decision, I dont think there should be a rematch. The problem was not because Ngannou is so good and can fight with champions on equal level, but simply because Fury underestimated him. If they would have a rematch I dont think that Fury is going to be so passive and slow. Because in that fight he did not show any footwork and tactics. He was rather straightforward. There were no tricks from him. He was only better at talking before the fight.

I agree that we could use a new poll, but I disagree that there shouldn't be a rematch. So the only argument is that we can assume that Fury underestimated Francis and he would surely destroy him in a rematch? By that logic, why do we have any fights at all, why not just make assumptions on who would defeat who 
Fury himself admitted that he came properly prepared and did not underestimate Ngannou's skills, so there's no reason not to believe him.
He will fight with Usyk anyway, so there's no need he can't fight Francis again after that. I think the exceptionally good performance of Francis put a dent in entire boxing as a sport, so it's in everyone's interest to have Fury proving to the world that he can do better than the first time around.

Maybe I saw different interview, but in mine Fury told that due to there were no videos of Ngannou real boxing fights, they did not know what to expect. All the knew Ngannou has speed and power. Not much to build tactics on. Well, if on October 28 we saw prepared Fury, who fully understood what to expect from Ngannou, then no doubt he would have huge troubles against Usyk. My offer if Fury should have a rematch was more addressed to those who say that Ngannou won But in general I would love to see fight against Usyk, then against Ngannou.

[Yaunfitda]

What a hot discussion here Do you think we need a rematch? Why not make another poll? Even though Fury won in a split decision, I dont think there should be a rematch. The problem was not because Ngannou is so good and can fight with champions on equal level, but simply because Fury underestimated him. If they would have a rematch I dont think that Fury is going to be so passive and slow. Because in that fight he did not show any footwork and tactics. He was rather straightforward. There were no tricks from him. He was only better at talking before the fight.

I agree that we could use a new poll, but I disagree that there shouldn't be a rematch. So the only argument is that we can assume that Fury underestimated Francis and he would surely destroy him in a rematch? By that logic, why do we have any fights at all, why not just make assumptions on who would defeat who 
Fury himself admitted that he came properly prepared and did not underestimate Ngannou's skills, so there's no reason not to believe him.
He will fight with Usyk anyway, so there's no need he can't fight Francis again after that. I think the exceptionally good performance of Francis put a dent in entire boxing as a sport, so it's in everyone's interest to have Fury proving to the world that he can do better than the first time around.

Maybe I saw different interview, but in mine Fury told that due to there were no videos of Ngannou real boxing fights, they did not know what to expect. All the knew Ngannou has speed and power. Not much to build tactics on. Well, if on October 28 we saw prepared Fury, who fully understood what to expect from Ngannou, then no doubt he would have huge troubles against Usyk. My offer if Fury should have a rematch was more addressed to those who say that Ngannou won But in general I would love to see fight against Usyk, then against Ngannou.

Well there is video of his fights in MMA, at least the striking aspect is clearly shown there. So they could used it as a basis for them to gauge how good Ngannou will be as a boxer. For me they really underestimated him as he is a MMA fighter. And I do think that Fury is just saying post fight that Francis is good or even a difficult fight that Usyk (obviously he is down playing Usyk here).

Nevertheless, its a rude awakening for the champion and he is very lucky that the judges give him the win here. I know that there is a continuing debate as to who win this fight. But it's clear to me that Fury didn't prepared or trained very hard in this fight, he is just saying that he did after the beatings that he got so somewhat stroke his ego and not to hurt.

[TopTort777]

Well there is video of his fights in MMA, at least the striking aspect is clearly shown there. So they could used it as a basis for them to gauge how good Ngannou will be as a boxer. For me they really underestimated him as he is a MMA fighter. And I do think that Fury is just saying post fight that Francis is good or even a difficult fight that Usyk (obviously he is down playing Usyk here).

Nevertheless, its a rude awakening for the champion and he is very lucky that the judges give him the win here. I know that there is a continuing debate as to who win this fight. But it's clear to me that Fury didn't prepared or trained very hard in this fight, he is just saying that he did after the beatings that he got so somewhat stroke his ego and not to hurt.

Doubt that this Ngannou mma career would be a good basis to evaluate his boxing. First of all octagon is much different from the ring. Ropes vs net, obtuse angle vs right angle, gloves difference. Difference in fighter movement is to much to take it as basis. As of you would compare ice hockey and bandy. Same stick+puck+skates, yet two different games.

However, I would agree more to you saying that Fury did not properly trained for the fight, than he underestimated his opponent or Ngannou was to good for him.

[Questat]

Well there is video of his fights in MMA, at least the striking aspect is clearly shown there. So they could used it as a basis for them to gauge how good Ngannou will be as a boxer. For me they really underestimated him as he is a MMA fighter. And I do think that Fury is just saying post fight that Francis is good or even a difficult fight that Usyk (obviously he is down playing Usyk here).

Nevertheless, its a rude awakening for the champion and he is very lucky that the judges give him the win here. I know that there is a continuing debate as to who win this fight. But it's clear to me that Fury didn't prepared or trained very hard in this fight, he is just saying that he did after the beatings that he got so somewhat stroke his ego and not to hurt.

Doubt that this Ngannou mma career would be a good basis to evaluate his boxing. First of all octagon is much different from the ring. Ropes vs net, obtuse angle vs right angle, gloves difference. Difference in fighter movement is to much to take it as basis. As of you would compare ice hockey and bandy. Same stick+puck+skates, yet two different games.

However, I would agree more to you saying that Fury did not properly trained for the fight, than he underestimated his opponent or Ngannou was to good for him.

Ngannou has proven to give Fury a good fight. Let's say Fury didn't train well, but what Ngannou showed was more than enough to convince us that he will make a name in boxing. Give him another try; that was his debut in boxing. Now, I think his opponents won't make the same excuse about not training.

Actually, Ngannou and Fury are probably laughing at us since we still can't move on from the fight, while both boxers are already enjoying the million dollars they earned in that particular bout.