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[ryzaadit]

Card counting is considered as a fraudulent activity by the casinos. Anyway, how much funds do you have in your account?

Actually by law are not. In US.

However they just don't like it. In Landbase casino like (Vegas) they back you off cause don't like the player who card counting and refused the service and using the reason private property for kick the player.

But, the casino are must cashout the chips player. As long "If he count the card not using any device at all", gaming board can also involved to help the player.
Speaking about "fraud" in T&C there is no mentioned of card counting at all. In sportbet > term and condition some casino are inputed arbitrage. Now my self are agree if they refused or restricted any player who doing arbitrage. On these case, the card counting being inputed on Anti Fraud while there is no fully details whats activity are being marked on the Anti Fraud.

I only know, Anti Fraud are mostly about the source fund you are using for transaction deposit is from some crime or other. Not for card counting stuff. I really following for casino stuff and watch one of them is about card counter. The guy who already as card counter tried to count on Evolution Games but still the favour are not good even you have the rate count 100% zero mistake : https://youtu.be/vjiVpO1hlvk?si=4gRmvSDWQfRCe3-I cause is just to many deck 6-8 and shuffle not even reached half the deck yet. Here also a good explanation card counter in only casino are not favour to the player while you can count the card 100% https://youtube.com/shorts/_vPCYLO6gHY?si=OAQMvGJwMi7N3nrl
I currious which provider are mark him as card counter 😅 and whats factor is being used.

[mikel_012]

Card counting is considered as a fraudulent activity by the casinos. Anyway, how much funds do you have in your account?

They can call it fraud but it is nothing illegal. I do not think there is any country in the world saying that counting cards is illegal.

But they can refuse service and ban you because they are not obligated to let you count cards or do any other things to win more frequently. The business would not survive if every one could do this all the time

[Zwei]

Our internal monitoring systems, together with an official confirmation from our Game Provider, have identified gameplay patterns that are consistent with card counting, which is strictly prohibited under both our Terms of Service and the Provider’s Terms and Conditions.

what a bunch of BS. online card counting, lol.

First time to see, and these could be wrong.

not the first time i see this from winna, they used the same card counting excuse to scam someone before: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5562065.msg65911489#msg65911489

Why, because online casino cant be count for card counter. You just cannot do these in online casino, the reason online casino having 6-8 deck and each deck is being shuffle not even reached half the deck.

You can count it from start but the probility chance favour is making it small since to many deck + they shuffle it not even reached half the deck.

exactly, which makes this accusation ridiculous.

I currious which provider are mark him as card counter 😅 and whats factor is being used.

i want to know that too.

@rickez3 which provider did you play? evolution or pragmatic?

[ryzaadit]

not the first time i see this from winna, they used the same card counting excuse to scam someone before: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5562065.msg65911489#msg65911489

Ah okay.

From the link thread you gave, really shock is Pragmatic Play. Its big provider and plus their deck are also 8 deck is making it card count are not good to the player either.

I thought gonna to see maybe some small small provider like from Asia with deck atleast under 6.

[AHOYBRAUSE]

not the first time i see this from winna, they used the same card counting excuse to scam someone before: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5562065.msg65911489#msg65911489

Ah okay.

From the link thread you gave, really shock is Pragmatic Play. Its big provider and plus their deck are also 8 deck is making it card count are not good to the player either.

I thought gonna to see maybe some small small provider like from Asia with deck atleast under 6.

When you win 10 in a row it's card counting and you get banned. When you lose 10 in a row ( and this happens all the time ) it's variance and totally legit. Makes sense, doesn't it. Any site that refuses to pay while accusing someone of card counting is a scam since as you have said there is no edge in doing that online. If there was then everybody would do it.
Just ridiculous what excuses these casinos bring these days.

[rickez3]

Our internal monitoring systems, together with an official confirmation from our Game Provider, have identified gameplay patterns that are consistent with card counting, which is strictly prohibited under both our Terms of Service and the Provider’s Terms and Conditions.

what a bunch of BS. online card counting, lol.

First time to see, and these could be wrong.

not the first time i see this from winna, they used the same card counting excuse to scam someone before: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5562065.msg65911489#msg65911489

Why, because online casino cant be count for card counter. You just cannot do these in online casino, the reason online casino having 6-8 deck and each deck is being shuffle not even reached half the deck.

You can count it from start but the probility chance favour is making it small since to many deck + they shuffle it not even reached half the deck.

exactly, which makes this accusation ridiculous.

I currious which provider are mark him as card counter 😅 and whats factor is being used.

i want to know that too.

@rickez3 which provider did you play? evolution or pragmatic?

I play pragmatic slots and bj. yeah they use the excuse to not even payout anything. even the deposited money they seem to confiscate

https://imgur.com/a/OzDaddG
https://imgur.com/a/xQs06La

withdrawal just pending forever. i bet its still like this in 2 weeks.

Hello ...,
​
We are contacting you regarding recent activity detected on your account.
Our internal monitoring systems, together with an official confirmation from our Game Provider, have identified gameplay patterns that are consistent with card counting, which is strictly prohibited under both our Terms of Service and the Provider’s Terms and Conditions.
​
The review may take up to 5 business days.
You will receive a separate email from the dedicated team once the review is complete.
Live chat support cannot assist with this matter until the review is finalized.
We appreciate your patience and cooperation during this process. Our goal is to ensure a fair and secure environment for all players.
​
Best regards,
​Winna Team

[Mahdirakib]

counting cards being fraudulent xd. wtf. you are able to count whatever you want, even if its possible that cannot ever be fraudulent lol.

In general, it isn't really a fraudulent activity. But casinos always consider such activity as fraudulent which helps players to take advantage and beat the house edge. Most probably you won't receive the withdrawal from Winna.

You can count it from start but the probility chance favour is making it small since to many deck + they shuffle it not even reached half the deck.

exactly, which makes this accusation ridiculous.

It only increases the probability of winning by a little percentage at a certain stage of the game. But it doesn't guarantee the profit. Unfortunately, it is considered as a fraudulent activity by the casinos. Besides Winna, I have seen similar complaints against other casinos too (as an example). Most of them happened in Pragmatic Play provider blackjack game.

[ryzaadit]

When you win 10 in a row it's card counting and you get banned. When you lose 10 in a row ( and this happens all the time ) it's variance and totally legit. Makes sense, doesn't it. Any site that refuses to pay while accusing someone of card counting is a scam since as you have said there is no edge in doing that online. If there was then everybody would do it.
Just ridiculous what excuses these casinos bring these days.

I don't think this is how card counters work.

It's basically changing the bet size depending on the count too; it's not just winning a row but also a bet pattern size. Well, I'm just a suprise to see that Pragmatic Play can do these cause they're big provider with 8 decks on the SHUFFLE, almost similar to Evolution Games and the different only in Pragmatic Play you can double after Splits.

I guess these could be sign of warning for not tried messed up with PP right now. I better start playing on Evo only ~LOL

[rickez3]

counting cards being fraudulent xd. wtf. you are able to count whatever you want, even if its possible that cannot ever be fraudulent lol.

In general, it isn't really a fraudulent activity. But casinos always consider such activity as fraudulent which helps players to take advantage and beat the house edge. Most probably you won't receive the withdrawal from Winna.

You can count it from start but the probility chance favour is making it small since to many deck + they shuffle it not even reached half the deck.

exactly, which makes this accusation ridiculous.

It only increases the probability of winning by a little percentage at a certain stage of the game. But it doesn't guarantee the profit. Unfortunately, it is considered as a fraudulent activity by the casinos. Besides Winna, I have seen similar complaints against other casinos too (as an example). Most of them happened in Pragmatic Play provider blackjack game.

its more fraudulent to not pay anything and stealing the whole deposit.

[AHOYBRAUSE]

When you win 10 in a row it's card counting and you get banned. When you lose 10 in a row ( and this happens all the time ) it's variance and totally legit. Makes sense, doesn't it. Any site that refuses to pay while accusing someone of card counting is a scam since as you have said there is no edge in doing that online. If there was then everybody would do it.
Just ridiculous what excuses these casinos bring these days.

I don't think this is how card counters work.

It's basically changing the bet size depending on the count too; it's not just winning a row but also a bet pattern size. Well, I'm just a suprise to see that Pragmatic Play can do these cause they're big provider with 8 decks on the SHUFFLE, almost similar to Evolution Games and the different only in Pragmatic Play you can double after Splits.

I guess these could be sign of warning for not tried messed up with PP right now. I better start playing on Evo only ~LOL

I know of course, just gave an example how casinos make up excuses/stories that people losing lost fair and square but people winning must be cheaters, that's all. 
Obviously card counting works totally different, I have seen the movies, hahaha.

[ccp]

In latest Winna news, the minimum deposit amount was raised to US$5.00 about a couple of days ago.

The (non-bold, normal sized) text stating the current minimum in the deposit popover module was updated, but many people use saved wallet addresses (which is a bad idea as the address could change at any time), and even if they don't, most people aren't going to re-read the full contents of the deposit view every time they open it.

No announcement was made on any of the multiple communication channels at their disposal, including X/Twitter, Telegram, Discord, email, pinning messages in the on-site chat, or creating a notice banner on the main site. Predictably enough, more than several people didn't notice this and tried to deposit three or four dollars, discovering the new minimum only when the funds failed to appear in their balances. These several (several several) are only the ones who showed up in chat to complain about it, so it can be assumed that there are quite a few more below the surface.

On the bright side, and to Winna's credit for what it's worth, other users in chat have reported that Winna support has been assisting these users by giving them codes redeemable for the amounts of the lost deposits.

So that at least suggests that Winna isn't trying to pull a fast one with this change. Possibly they simply need to raise the minimum deposit because they were incurring some losses from gas fees for sweeping deposits from individual wallets to main wallet. Or maybe they're hedging further against having to pay out significant winnings arising from insignificant deposits/balances, like when they raised the minimum bet amount in all currencies to the equivalent of US$0.01 so that people could no longer try to run up dust.

[ryzaadit]

In latest Winna news, the minimum deposit amount was raised to US$5.00 about a couple of days ago.

The (non-bold, normal sized) text stating the current minimum in the deposit popover module was updated, but many people use saved wallet addresses (which is a bad idea as the address could change at any time), and even if they don't, most people aren't going to re-read the full contents of the deposit view every time they open it.

No offense, for suggestion "Bold" really agree to make people aware.

But for "saved address" stuff you are mentioned and the problem, people should know basic information everytime you are do transaction is always to make some pops up or opened a deposit page not just saved address to avoid a mistake. It's one of the priority things in crypto transaction, unless the address you are saved or transaction is your own address not a service. If people got these problem, at least that's gonna to be a learn mistake for them.

No announcement was made on any of the multiple communication channels at their disposal, including X/Twitter, Telegram, Discord, email, pinning messages in the on-site chat, or creating a notice banner on the main site. Predictably enough, more than several people didn't notice this and tried to deposit three or four dollars, discovering the new minimum only when the funds failed to appear in their balances. These several (several several) are only the ones who showed up in chat to complain about it, so it can be assumed that there are quite a few more below the surface.

Cause is not something major, If you open a deposit page you will be aware.

On the bright side, and to Winna's credit for what it's worth, other users in chat have reported that Winna support has been assisting these users by giving them codes redeemable for the amounts of the lost deposits.

Atleast they recover those with redeem code, good for them.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

In latest Winna news, the minimum deposit amount was raised to US$5.00 about a couple of days ago.

The (non-bold, normal sized) text stating the current minimum in the deposit popover module was updated, but many people use saved wallet addresses (which is a bad idea as the address could change at any time), and even if they don't, most people aren't going to re-read the full contents of the deposit view every time they open it.

No announcement was made on any of the multiple communication channels at their disposal, including X/Twitter, Telegram, Discord, email, pinning messages in the on-site chat, or creating a notice banner on the main site. Predictably enough, more than several people didn't notice this and tried to deposit three or four dollars, discovering the new minimum only when the funds failed to appear in their balances. These several (several several) are only the ones who showed up in chat to complain about it, so it can be assumed that there are quite a few more below the surface.

But isn't it a user's responsibility to check the deposit page before making any deposit? I usually have saved addresses in my wallet, but I never make a deposit before checking the deposit page.

Things change a lot. It could be from wallet maintenance and minimum deposits to changed addresses. But it's good they're trying to ease the situation with redeemable codes. Perhaps it's also a lesson gfor them going forward.

[AHOYBRAUSE]

But isn't it a user's responsibility to check the deposit page before making any deposit? I usually have saved addresses in my wallet, but I never make a deposit before checking the deposit page.

Things change a lot. It could be from wallet maintenance and minimum deposits to changed addresses. But it's good they're trying to ease the situation with redeemable codes. Perhaps it's also a lesson gfor them going forward.

It is the player's responsibility, that't true. But from a standpoint of doing the right thing and inform players of such changes it doesn't hurt to send an email or make a disclaimer. This takes like some minutes and would prevent further trouble. People seeing this too late, making a mistake and then flood the support with complaints costs more than creating one simple and quick information.

So that at least suggests that Winna isn't trying to pull a fast one with this change. Possibly they simply need to raise the minimum deposit because they were incurring some losses from gas fees for sweeping deposits from individual wallets to main wallet. Or maybe they're hedging further against having to pay out significant winnings arising from insignificant deposits/balances, like when they raised the minimum bet amount in all currencies to the equivalent of US$0.01 so that people could no longer try to run up dust.

For the longest time they were secretly (over)charging 1$ per withdrawal for fees anyway. When I called them out for it they even denied it, despite me clearly getting 1$ less every single time.
By the way, they also raised the min withdrawal a while back, so now they have come "full circle".  

[ryzaadit]

It is the player's responsibility, that't true. But from a standpoint of doing the right thing and inform players of such changes it doesn't hurt to send an email or make a disclaimer. This takes like some minutes and would prevent further trouble. People seeing this too late, making a mistake and then flood the support with complaints costs more than creating one simple and quick information.

If they not even opening a deposit page before making a deposit.

What do you think they're gonna to open an emails? I don't really think so. People will open or read some information once got some problem, at least they're gonna to experience this stuff and taken as learning mistake.

Even is costing a few bucks.

[AHOYBRAUSE]

It is the player's responsibility, that't true. But from a standpoint of doing the right thing and inform players of such changes it doesn't hurt to send an email or make a disclaimer. This takes like some minutes and would prevent further trouble. People seeing this too late, making a mistake and then flood the support with complaints costs more than creating one simple and quick information.

If they not even opening a deposit page before making a deposit.

What do you think they're gonna to open an emails? I don't really think so. People will open or read some information once got some problem, at least they're gonna to experience this stuff and taken as learning mistake.

Even is costing a few bucks.

That's why I also mentioned a disclaimer message on top of the page. Also, emails come with a notification on your phone, so it's harder to miss them compared to some new things they added in the cashier. And like I also said, I agree that every player are responsible for their own stuff they are doing. Yet the site also has a responsibility to prevent things like this to happen. It's so easy, that's why i never understand why it's so hard for them to inform their players.

By the way, I am sure you open every email you get from casinos you use. Cause I also know you are always waiting for some bonus. 

[ryzaadit]

That's why I also mentioned a disclaimer message on top of the page. Also, emails come with a notification on your phone, so it's harder to miss them compared to some new things they added in the cashier. And like I also said, I agree that every player are responsible for their own stuff they are doing. Yet the site also has a responsibility to prevent things like this to happen. It's so easy, that's why i never understand why it's so hard for them to inform their players.

By the way, I am sure you open every email you get from casinos you use. Cause I also know you are always waiting for some bonus. 

We talk for the majority of the users, right? not me.

I never once deposited without looking at the deposit page on CASINO, my mistake transaction is only sent on the wrong network in CHIPS. But, during the deposit, I opened the deposit page on CHIPS page. I got the problem is due forget to change the network on Binance only and since CHIPS having different deposit address + network for each deposit currency make my funds.

As long they stated in the deposit page they not wrong either even not sharing the change. At leasts people will realized the mistake and take these as opportunity leason for next transaction (not costing bigs, but costing under 5$) saved them on future mistake with big transaction.

[AHOYBRAUSE]

That's why I also mentioned a disclaimer message on top of the page. Also, emails come with a notification on your phone, so it's harder to miss them compared to some new things they added in the cashier. And like I also said, I agree that every player are responsible for their own stuff they are doing. Yet the site also has a responsibility to prevent things like this to happen. It's so easy, that's why i never understand why it's so hard for them to inform their players.

By the way, I am sure you open every email you get from casinos you use. Cause I also know you are always waiting for some bonus. 

We talk for the majority of the users, right? not me.

I never once deposited without looking at the deposit page on CASINO, my mistake transaction is only sent on the wrong network in CHIPS. But, during the deposit, I opened the deposit page on CHIPS page. I got the problem is due forget to change the network on Binance only and since CHIPS having different deposit address + network for each deposit currency make my funds.

As long they stated in the deposit page they not wrong either even not sharing the change. At leasts people will realized the mistake and take these as opportunity leason for next transaction (not costing bigs, but costing under 5$) saved them on future mistake with big transaction.

Either you don't get it or you don't want to get it, I honestly thought you are smarter. Well, let's defend the casino for not bringing this to the attention of the people that use their money, right? Crazy mindset, no clue why you would think this is the right approach. But you do you.
Thinking people need to lose money to learn a lesson is just  .

[Bitinity]

.......

.......

Either you don't get it or you don't want to get it, I honestly thought you are smarter. Well, let's defend the casino for not bringing this to the attention of the people that use their money, right? Crazy mindset, no clue why you would think this is the right approach. But you do you.
Thinking people need to lose money to learn a lesson is just  .

If I understand it correctly, your main idea is simply about suggesting the casino to inform players for such a change/update to avoid mistake made by players. The information can be through email or maybe by pop up notification on the main page so players are aware about the change/update. Of course I have to agree with this suggestion and it is something that should be done by all casinos. On other case lets say the casino change/update the deposit address for all users while it used to be the same address for years. In this case, a big possibility that there are many players saved the deposit address already to make it simple when they want to deposit to their account. If the change is not informed to players, many players may lose their deposit because of they sent to the old deposit address. Of course, I also agree that players are responsibility for their own action but an important update like something related to deposit/withdrawal should be informed to players officially to avoid complaints later.

[[btc]]

A moderator has recently been caught accepting bribes to delete several scam accusation topics against this casino.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5589060.0

A now-removed moderator was mass-deleting Winna scam accusations, starting around April. These threads were deleted, but they are now all restored:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5552844.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5560973.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5564518.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5564449.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5578267.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5560841.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5563216.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5560692.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5559158.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5556286.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5573314.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5579411.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5568456.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5583371.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5580783.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5577325.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5554571.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5545779.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5582037.0

After being discovered, the moderator admitted to being paid to remove these threads. While I can't be 100% sure that Winna was the one behind this bribery, it seems likely, especially given the volume of scam accusations against them.

Edit:
https://loyce.club/archive/posts/6696/66967397.html <-- This post was made after my post here, and then deleted.

What a huge shame for Winna and to the ex moderator got involve with this bribery. Both of them throw out their best positions and now they are in questionable situations.

I don't know what came out on the minds of both owner of Winna and that ex moderator.

Since instead of resolving those issue then show to their community that they are reliable casino, they just to undergo with illegal deals and now they are suffering on the consequences on bad decisions they have done.