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Lloydimiller4
Full Member
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Activity: 186
Merit: 100
Monero
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June 22, 2015, 01:25:44 PM |
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I think you forget that having such a huge premine(~80%?) breaks the anonymity of the coin, which is the whole basis of having an anonymous currency, no? It is pretty simple from that fact alone that BCN should be entirely ignored. |
XMR: 43uAvbYL7z9NrKQig2DswM69XaeDug1Rf8v4Un1ndssb2To51Vojz2uZ21jFumWsCcgvqZ9hPuE3fEr xKoGCkHU8CzqHFiS
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generalizethis
Legendary
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Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
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June 22, 2015, 01:33:13 PM |
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What benefit would I gain by risking my assets on a coin that most likely has broken anonymity? The NSA could benefit. The investors/creators of BCN could benefit. But in either case, I could not benefit by using this coin. |
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Wanderlust
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June 22, 2015, 01:58:29 PM |
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What benefit would I gain by risking my assets on a coin that most likely has broken anonymity? The NSA could benefit. The investors/creators of BCN could benefit. But in either case, I could not benefit by using this coin. AS i stated in my post on BCN it seems just as likely that the coin was mined in closed private circles for several months as it does the chain was entirely faked. assuming the former might mean that some dozens of individuals, not necessarily just team members but maybe friends of team members etc might have mined BCN (arguably in clandestine collusion). would all 80% need to be held in one addy or just many addys adding up to 80% all held by the same group? my problem is motive. 1) GREED these guys could have made big bucks with a much smaller "premines" ro no premine at all. why risk it all knowing somebody could "pull a Monero", take the goodness and start over? and yet it's perhaps the most likely reason 2) To DE-ANON hmm. make a crypto triumph (cryptonote) and then proceed to break its anon? cypherpunks not down with that and seems to obvious for a 3-letter agency. also if a 3-letter agency is responsible for CN then all CN coins got things to be concerned about. By the way is it possible to BUY 80% of a CN coin supply to de-anon it? 3) To prevent a DE-ANON The one positive motive to mine hard. these guys might be so paranoid that they were worried that a 3-letter agency would de-anon their coin by mining it faster than they could, something which Monerians might consider. |
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generalizethis
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
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June 22, 2015, 02:28:57 PM
Last edit: June 22, 2015, 02:40:32 PM by generalizethis |
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What benefit would I gain by risking my assets on a coin that most likely has broken anonymity? The NSA could benefit. The investors/creators of BCN could benefit. But in either case, I could not benefit by using this coin. AS i stated in my post on BCN it seems just as likely that the coin was mined in closed private circles for several months as it does the chain was entirely faked. assuming the former might mean that some dozens of individuals, not necessarily just team members but maybe friends of team members etc might have mined BCN (arguably in clandestine collusion). would all 80% need to be held in one addy or just many addys adding up to 80% all held by the same group? my problem is motive. 1) GREED these guys could have made big bucks with a much smaller "premines" ro no premine at all. why risk it all knowing somebody could "pull a Monero", take the goodness and start over? and yet it's perhaps the most likely reason 2) To DE-ANON hmm. make a crypto triumph (cryptonote) and then proceed to break its anon? cypherpunks not down with that and seems to obvious for a 3-letter agency. also if a 3-letter agency is responsible for CN then all CN coins got things to be concerned about. By the way is it possible to BUY 80% of a CN coin supply to de-anon it? 3) To prevent a DE-ANON The one positive motive to mine hard. these guys might be so paranoid that they were worried that a 3-letter agency would de-anon their coin by mining it faster than they could, something which Monerians might consider. Doesn't matter what the motive is. The result is there is no good reason for me to risk my privacy by using the coin. Even if we presume them innocent of actual malice (Sorry, I don't want to risk finding out), they were stupid to lay the gun that would eventually kill them on the Welcome mat. |
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GingerAle
Legendary
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Activity: 1260
Merit: 1008
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June 22, 2015, 02:39:10 PM |
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What benefit would I gain by risking my assets on a coin that most likely has broken anonymity? The NSA could benefit. The investors/creators of BCN could benefit. But in either case, I could not benefit by using this coin. AS i stated in my post on BCN it seems just as likely that the coin was mined in closed private circles for several months as it does the chain was entirely faked. assuming the former might mean that some dozens of individuals, not necessarily just team members but maybe friends of team members etc might have mined BCN (arguably in clandestine collusion). would all 80% need to be held in one addy or just many addys adding up to 80% all held by the same group? my problem is motive. 1) GREED these guys could have made big bucks with a much smaller "premines" ro no premine at all. why risk it all knowing somebody could "pull a Monero", take the goodness and start over? and yet it's perhaps the most likely reason 2) To DE-ANON hmm. make a crypto triumph (cryptonote) and then proceed to break its anon? cypherpunks not down with that and seems to obvious for a 3-letter agency. also if a 3-letter agency is responsible for CN then all CN coins got things to be concerned about. By the way is it possible to BUY 80% of a CN coin supply to de-anon it? 3) To prevent a DE-ANON The one positive motive to mine hard. these guys might be so paranoid that they were worried that a 3-letter agency would de-anon their coin by mining it faster than they could, something which Monerians might consider. My favorite theory, which I've picked up from someone (i forget who), was basically that the crypto side and the scam side were 2 separate entities. I.e., the ones who developed the cryptography / core for BCN were not involved with the scam. The theory goes that most cryptographers / true crypto enthusiasts could care less about profiteering, so the crypto side just bailed when the scam side took over. This leads easily to the fact that point #2 just wasn't considered by the scam team, because they weren't involved in the cryptography / core development. Re: buying 80% - perhaps if one then mixin 0'd that amount or something. regarding point #3, the current hash rate distribution seems relatively healthy. No idea regarding early days. |
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Wanderlust
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June 22, 2015, 02:39:38 PM |
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What benefit would I gain by risking my assets on a coin that most likely has broken anonymity? The NSA could benefit. The investors/creators of BCN could benefit. But in either case, I could not benefit by using this coin. AS i stated in my post on BCN it seems just as likely that the coin was mined in closed private circles for several months as it does the chain was entirely faked. assuming the former might mean that some dozens of individuals, not necessarily just team members but maybe friends of team members etc might have mined BCN (arguably in clandestine collusion). would all 80% need to be held in one addy or just many addys adding up to 80% all held by the same group? my problem is motive. 1) GREED these guys could have made big bucks with a much smaller "premines" ro no premine at all. why risk it all knowing somebody could "pull a Monero", take the goodness and start over? and yet it's perhaps the most likely reason 2) To DE-ANON hmm. make a crypto triumph (cryptonote) and then proceed to break its anon? cypherpunks not down with that and seems to obvious for a 3-letter agency. also if a 3-letter agency is responsible for CN then all CN coins got things to be concerned about. By the way is it possible to BUY 80% of a CN coin supply to de-anon it? 3) To prevent a DE-ANON The one positive motive to mine hard. these guys might be so paranoid that they were worried that a 3-letter agency would de-anon their coin by mining it faster than they could, something which Monerians might consider. Doesn't matter what the motive is. The result is there is no good reason for me to risk my privacy by using the coin. Even if we presume them innocent of actual malice (Sorry, I don't want risk finding out), they were stupid to lay the gun that would eventually kill them on the Welcome mat. I'm not disagreeing that investing in BCN is very very hard to justify. For arguments sake if the motive was "3) To prevent a de-anon" then i'd feel our anonymity was in safe hands. Moreover assuming the coin was mined in private circles (rather than fake blockchain) then de-anon would require the collusion of men who I'd assume (under those circumstances) to be cypherpunks I could truest in. I dont deny that motive might is unlikely but it is also true that the CN devs would know better than anyone the potential weakness of the system. with this weakness in mind they become the guardians of the coin supply. what i also find surprising is that people are in agreement that the CN devs and BCN devs are likely the same bunch. To trust or not to trust, that's the question. |
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generalizethis
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
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June 22, 2015, 02:43:47 PM |
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To trust or not to trust, that's the question.
For you.  |
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myagui
Legendary
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Activity: 1154
Merit: 1001
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June 22, 2015, 03:12:05 PM |
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... For arguments sake if the motive was "3) To prevent a de-anon" then i'd feel our anonymity was in safe hands ...
This is of such absurd logic that it really get's comical. So you would feel safe to entrust your anonymity and investment privacy, over to an individual or group that holds the absolute power of turning your anonymity to shreds on a whim. A group that (going by your suggestion) favored deception over truth, privileged knowledge over fair and open/public access. Sweet. Oh, crap, I got caught in a TrollTrap (TM) again... There's a never ending supply of motivated bad actors providing BCN with life support. Adding another one to my ignore list...  |
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kazuki49
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June 22, 2015, 03:28:58 PM |
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This is of such absurd logic that it really get's comical. So you would feel safe to entrust your anonymity and investment privacy, over to an individual or group that holds the absolute power of turning your anonymity to shreds on a whim. A group that (going by your suggestion) favored deception over truth, privileged knowledge over fair and open/public access. Sweet.
Which is why investing in BCN is a paradoxy, self-contradictory action... |
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uvt9
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June 22, 2015, 04:08:52 PM |
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i've just logged in just to ask about current progress with LMDB ? Is there any update ?
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dEBRUYNE
Legendary
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Activity: 2268
Merit: 1141
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June 22, 2015, 04:35:05 PM
Last edit: June 22, 2015, 06:00:23 PM by dEBRUYNE |
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i've just logged in just to ask about current progress with LMDB ? Is there any update ?
This says it pretty much -> https://twitter.com/fluffyponyza/status/611064391975481344. Performance nigglies are being worked on. However, no ETA is known (yet). Just be patient. You can also follow the github for other developments -> https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commits/masterEDIT: In addition, why it is important the performance nigglies are solved perfectly: It's worked on Windows since quite near the beginning. What you probably read is that we were making a platform agnostic blockchain import format, which we've also subsequently completed. There are performance issues we're dealing with at the moment, and we have to get those 100% right, else we could end up with a network fork (half of the network on the database version and half on the in-RAM version). http://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/388s1o/are_there_compiled_binaries_for_the/crt9nde |
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primer-
Legendary
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Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
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June 22, 2015, 06:17:19 PM |
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i've just logged in just to ask about current progress with LMDB ? Is there any update ?
Impatience killed the cat! Why the rush ? We need another 10-12 months to tidy up the code then another 6 to stress-test everything before we push it live. GUI client is next on our to-do list once LMDB is done so get ready people, we are going mainstream soon™ |
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Johnny Mnemonic
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June 22, 2015, 06:58:47 PM
Last edit: June 22, 2015, 07:10:39 PM by Johnny Mnemonic |
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I also think you're a troll because you're posting all this here (XMR thread). BCN is off topic, so please be respectful take your "inquisitions" to a BCN-specific thread.
To show I'm not a troll and simply being duly diligent I will copy this post (and yours) to the BCN thread. [Hi, I'm back for more BCN related discussion]
Welcome back to the XMR thread, where your BCN blather remains off-topic. Please be respectful and take your troll posts back to the BCN thread where they belong. |
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ArticMine
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
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June 23, 2015, 01:28:09 AM
Last edit: June 23, 2015, 07:07:34 AM by ArticMine |
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...
Welcome back to the XMR thread, where your BCN blather remains off-topic. Please be respectful and take your troll posts back to the BCN thread where they belong.
+1 Could we please keep the debate on whether Bytecoin was a ninjamine or a premine in the following thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=740112.0 |
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XMRChina
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June 23, 2015, 07:52:08 AM |
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Can someone share with me the volume of transactions from Monero Club so far?
I am also interested in the number of registered users by region
This data may give us some clues about where interest is higher and where more marketing activities should be directed.
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Wanderlust
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June 23, 2015, 08:01:35 AM
Last edit: June 23, 2015, 08:17:40 AM by Wanderlust |
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... For arguments sake if the motive was "3) To prevent a de-anon" then i'd feel our anonymity was in safe hands ...
This is of such absurd logic that it really get's comical. So you would feel safe to entrust your anonymity and investment privacy, over to an individual or group that holds the absolute power of turning your anonymity to shreds on a whim. A group that (going by your suggestion) favored deception over truth, privileged knowledge over fair and open/public access. Sweet. Oh, crap, I got caught in a TrollTrap (TM) again... There's a never ending supply of motivated bad actors providing BCN with life support. Adding another one to my ignore list... I agree it a spurious theory but the only one i could come up with which gives BCN the benefit of the doubt. I hold only 1BTC worth of BCN and am hardly a motivated actor. I have no attachment to the coins I hold and will readily dump them when I see fit. Adding me to your ignore list is uncalled for since I am not a troll. I also think you're a troll because you're posting all this here (XMR thread). BCN is off topic, so please be respectful take your "inquisitions" to a BCN-specific thread.
To show I'm not a troll and simply being duly diligent I will copy this post (and yours) to the BCN thread. [Hi, I'm back for more BCN related discussion]
Welcome back to the XMR thread, where your BCN blather remains off-topic. Please be respectful and take your troll posts back to the BCN thread where they belong. Umm...OK? As you know I posted a link to the BCN thread where you replied to me (thanks). Some of your community replied in this thread and I replied them back. Not really my bad. My favorite theory, which I've picked up from someone (i forget who), was basically that the crypto side and the scam side were 2 separate entities. I.e., the ones who developed the cryptography / core for BCN were not involved with the scam. The theory goes that most cryptographers / true crypto enthusiasts could care less about profiteering, so the crypto side just bailed when the scam side took over.
…
Interesting angle which could help resolve my issue with motive. Thanks. I already posted there several days ago, no replies. BCN wont discuss this in their thread (LOL), so I came to the XMR thread and am now being called a troll. It's a bloody raw deal if u ask me. I really dont see the problem if a CN history n00b (like myself) revisits the BCN/Monero origin story. One cannot discuss the history of Monero without telling the BCN origin story. There are no facts at hand (except whitepaper forensics) and a lot of educated guesswork. Thanks you all for opening the lid with me once more. Im sure that for you it seems tedious but this story will be told for a long time to come yet. Be prepared. FINALLY. I am concerned about this 80% de-anon prob which could theoretically affect any CN currency. I asked before but would like a more conclusive response (if poss) as to whether one could buy 80% of a CN coin's supply to de-anon all tx's? Thank you all once more for your invaluable time. |
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dEBRUYNE
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1141
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June 23, 2015, 08:03:32 AM |
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Can someone share with me the volume of transactions from Monero Club so far?
I am also interested in the number of registered users by region
This data may give us some clues about where interest is higher and where more marketing activities should be directed.
Shoot Atrides a PM, he is the owner of MoneroClub -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=185001 |
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smooth
Legendary
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Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
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June 23, 2015, 08:42:39 AM
Last edit: June 23, 2015, 10:15:24 AM by smooth |
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FINALLY. I am concerned about this 80% de-anon prob which could theoretically affect any CN currency. I asked before but would like a more conclusive response (if poss) as to whether one could buy 80% of a CN coin's supply to de-anon all tx's?
Yes it would be the same. The difference it is that is extremely difficult and expensive to buy 80% of something that is out in public and viewed by a large number of people as having significant current or potential value, which has been the case for Monero almost since its very inception (certainly by the time 10% of it was mined). To do that you would need to bid the price up tremendously. Furthermore, mining continues (<50% of Monero is even mined at all so far, so it would literally be impossible to buy 80% of the total supply right now) at a significant rate. Therefore, to maintain this sort of large share and not have it diluted away, you would also need to have a dominant share of mining, in this case competing with other people who want to mine it, an another expensive proposition. Or alternately buy a large share of the mined coins, again competing with anyone else who wants to buy it, or miners who want to hold it (and yet again an expensive proposition). This of course is not the case for BCN, which is almost fully mined by now, and indeed was 82% mined by the time there is any verifiable evidence of anyone outside of its inner circle being aware of its existence. By contrast if it is known or controlled only by a small group or single actor, you can ninja/premine as much as you want -- 82% for example -- without needing to bid/compete at all, so your cost can be virtually zero. and you can keep that 82% share forever at no further cost without needing to mine or buy at all. |
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MoneroMooo
Legendary
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Activity: 1276
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June 23, 2015, 08:46:00 AM |
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FINALLY. I am concerned about this 80% de-anon prob which could theoretically affect any CN currency. I asked before but would like a more conclusive response (if poss) as to whether one could buy 80% of a CN coin's supply to de-anon all tx's?
That is the point that was made above, if you needed another confirmation. It's as if you have a large plane taking off. Can it stay up ? It's got multiple engines, and is designed to be resistant to the loss of one or two engines and still be able to land. But a malicious mechanic might be able to sabotage more than or two. Three ? All four ? Any such four engine plane is vulnerable to three of its engines being sabotaged, yes. And it may not be obvious until too late. In the case of Bytecoin, there is ample circumstancial evidence that three of the engines have been sabotaged. The fourth ? Maybe. Could the Monero plane be sabotaged this way too ? Theoretically, yes. But this is all about conditional probabilities. What is the probability that Bytecoin has 80% of its outputs in a small set of hands, given the various things we've seen ? It is higher, all other things being equal, that the probability of another cryptonote having 80% of its outputs in a small set of hands. Sure, it could still be the case, like the next four engine plane you see migh have three of its engines sabotaged despite nothing weird having been detected about it. Nothing's ever certain, even though the language of everyday life often couches things in assertions. Typically, people will say something like "Mike is at work", although the more correct thing to say might be "I saw Mike walk out the door as he usually does every morning to go to what he says is work, and enough time has elapsed that he had time to reach the workplace, assuming normal traffic conditions and no accident, etc, etc". If you're actually interested in this, you may enjoy reading MRL-0004.pdf from the Monero labs people. Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, but hopefully someone else reading the original willful confusion may find this helpful. |
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