[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[Johnny Mnemonic]

The obvious question would be, how can Monero be the 'only truly' fungible cryptocurrency, if there are other cryptonote coins with the same tech?  (and obviously there are other coins that claim to be fungible so 'truly' is subjective)

Monero is the only truly fungible cryptocurrency I'm interested in spending my time and energy on. Your opposition only makes my commitment harder.

ok.. for me that's missing any reason as to why Monero is the only truly fungible crypto, or how Monero is and other cryptonote coins are not.  Maybe there isn't a reasson, but I am open to finding out. It's taking quite a long time though......

It was already explained:

The obvious question would be, how can Monero be the 'only truly' fungible cryptocurrency, if there are other cryptonote coins with the same tech?  (and obviously there are other coins that claim to be fungible so 'truly' is subjective)

I already explained that, but I will again.

It's "truly" fungible because it's proven to be untraceable and unlinkable.

Bytecoin isn't fungible because they own almost every coin that you don't.

Show me another (non-scam) coin that has proven untraceability and unlinkability. I eagerly await your response.

[fluffypony]

I don't know, but i'm guessing it's not possible to describe it in one sentence, instead I have to read more pages of text?

I don't get your fixation on "one sentence".

Those who are technically competent and interested in cryptocurrencies will read the "pages of text" because that's how they prove Monero's worth to themselves.

Those who aren't technically competent will use whatever their girlfriend or boss or mom uses.

There exists this narrow band of maybe - MAYBE - 20 000 people scattered across the globe, gathering on obscure Internet forums, who are not competent enough to intuitively recognise a cryptocurrency based on solid fundamentals, but not so technically inept that they need their daughter to help them change their desktop background. Those are the people that need "one sentence", but since that group has a significant number of profit-seekers and scammers there's no point in us pandering to that group. They'll either figure it out on their own, or they won't.

You'll either figure it out on your own, or you won't.

[BlockaFett]

I don't know, but i'm guessing it's not possible to describe it in one sentence, instead I have to read more pages of text?

I don't get your fixation on "one sentence".

Those who are technically competent and interested in cryptocurrencies will read the "pages of text" because that's how they prove Monero's worth to themselves.

Those who aren't technically competent will use whatever their girlfriend or boss or mom uses.

There exists this narrow band of maybe - MAYBE - 20 000 people scattered across the globe, gathering on obscure Internet forums, who are not competent enough to intuitively recognise a cryptocurrency based on solid fundamentals, but not so technically inept that they need their daughter to help them change their desktop background. Those are the people that need "one sentence", but since that group has a significant number of profit-seekers and scammers there's no point in us pandering to that group. They'll either figure it out on their own, or they won't.

You'll either figure it out on your own, or you won't.

Like I said, the claim here is Monero is going to change the world and a profound new technology etc.

Every single world-changing human invention can have it's benefit described in one sentence.

Technical projects where the devs hide behind lots of text, shiny marketing graphics and claims that non-technical people are 'too blind to see it' are the ones that have no value in my experience.

From the last few pages what I learned is:  There is not one unique reason why anyone would want to use Monero, apart from all the other Bytecoin clones are scams.

Just my opinion, unless you can say what the value is yourself, without claiming that it can't be described in English or it is somewhere on a marketing graphic...

Sorry tough questions Fluffy, but in real world this is what you get.  You have worked with VCs, you should know this?

[smooth]

Like I said, the claim here is Monero is going to change the world and a profound new technology etc.

No, the claim is that cryptonote was and is the first meaningfully useful and significant cryptocurrency innovation after Bitcoin (tweaks don't count, nor do broken concepts such as proof-of-stake).

Monero is the name for the credible open and public project that is developing cryptonote technology.

EDIT: typo

[rpietila]

Claim is that cryptonote was and is first meaningfully useful and significant cryptocurrency innovation after Bitcoin (tweaks don't count, nor do broken concepts like proof-of-stake).

Monero is the name for the credible open and public project that is developing cryptonote technology.

This.


Case closed.

[BlockaFett]

Like I said, the claim here is Monero is going to change the world and a profound new technology etc.

No, the claim is that cryptonote was and is first truly and usefully cryptocurrency innovation after Bitcoin.

Monero is the name for the credible open and public project that is developing cryptonote technology.

You are also investing time in Dashcoin Smooth, are you saying that isn't a credible and open project?  And if it is, then how can Monero be the only credible cryptonote coin?  Also then tomorrow I can clone Bytecoin and do a fair launch and I have the same innovation as Monero and Dashcoin or what's the difference?  .....How does this change the world???

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Every single world-changing human invention can have it's benefit described in one sentence.

Oh really? What was the single-sentence value proposition of the internet back in 1988? Let's hear it... it better be visionary!

[opennux]

Like I said, the claim here is Monero is going to change the world and a profound new technology etc.

No, the claim is that cryptonote was and is first truly and usefully cryptocurrency innovation after Bitcoin.

Monero is the name for the credible open and public project that is developing cryptonote technology.

You are also investing time in Dashcoin Smooth, are you saying that isn't a credible and open project?  And if it is, then how can Monero be the only credible cryptonote coin?  Also then tomorrow I can clone Bytecoin and do a fair launch and I have the same innovation as Monero and Dashcoin or what's the difference?  .....How does this change the world???

I keep wondering how one gets a job like this.

In any case, just know that the replies you are getting are for posterity's sake. Nothing else.

[smooth]

Like I said, the claim here is Monero is going to change the world and a profound new technology etc.

No, the claim is that cryptonote was and is first truly and usefully cryptocurrency innovation after Bitcoin.

Monero is the name for the credible open and public project that is developing cryptonote technology.

You are also investing time in Dashcoin Smooth, are you saying that isn't a credible and open project?

Not to any significant degree no.

And if it is, then how can Monero be the only credible cryptonote coin?  Also then tomorrow I can clone Bytecoin and do a fair launch and I have the same innovation as Monero and Dashcoin or what's the difference?  .....How does this change the world???

Already addressed above. Your misunderstanding is that innovation is all that matters. It isn't. Innovation must be coupled with execution. In this context "execution" is a credible open and public project with a strong community.

You can fork Bytecoin, that literally takes 5 seconds. As for the rest, to reach the level of Monero, takes a year.

[BlockaFett]

Every single world-changing human invention can have it's benefit described in one sentence.

Oh really? What was the single-sentence value proposition of the internet back in 1988? Let's hear it... it better be visionary!

IDK. First way for users to instantly share digital information anywhere in the world using a common standard?  Is it a trick question?

[BlockaFett]

Like I said, the claim here is Monero is going to change the world and a profound new technology etc.

No, the claim is that cryptonote was and is first truly and usefully cryptocurrency innovation after Bitcoin.

Monero is the name for the credible open and public project that is developing cryptonote technology.

You are also investing time in Dashcoin Smooth, are you saying that isn't a credible and open project?

Not to any significant degree no.

And if it is, then how can Monero be the only credible cryptonote coin?  Also then tomorrow I can clone Bytecoin and do a fair launch and I have the same innovation as Monero and Dashcoin or what's the difference?  .....How does this change the world???

Already addressed above. Your misunderstanding is that innovation is all that matters. It isn't. Innovation must be coupled with execution. In this context "execution" is a credible open and public project with a strong community.

You can fork Bytecoin, that literally takes 5 seconds. As for the rest, to reach the level of Monero, takes a year.

innovation is the primary unique differential any investor looks for because it represents the greatest barrier to entry for competition to a first-mover tech.

anyone can clone Bytecoin, do a logo, make a mymonero website and talk on a forum a lot.  It's innovation that to investors means the investment is good, because it's doing something new and useful over existing tech, which in tech conveys multiple benefits

and before i get drilled for saying 'investor', the reason to have investors is that's how we get crypto out to the mass market.  And the mass market wants....innovation.

[fluffypony]

Like I said, the claim here is Monero is going to change the world and a profound new technology etc.

No, not at all. The only valid claim is on the getmonero.org website: "Monero is a secure, private, untraceable currency that is open-source and freely available to all."

Every single world-changing human invention can have it's benefit described in one sentence.

Really? Describe the benefit of the Diffie-Hellman key exchange in one sentence. Or describe the benefit of the kingpost truss in one sentence? Or describe the benefit of the intraoperative cell salvage during invasive operations in one sentence?

Technical invention / innovation doesn't need "one sentence", because peers (hence peer review) don't mind reading.

Technical projects where the devs hide behind lots of text, shiny marketing graphics and claims that non-technical people are 'too blind to see it' are the ones that have no value in my experience.

I agree, that's why I've pointed out snake oil and scams like Ethereum and Darkcoin/Dash.

From the last few pages what I learned is:  There is not one unique reason why anyone would want to use Monero, apart from all the other Bytecoin clones are scams.

Absolutely, as long as you're happy to ignore the 800+ commits we've made and the functionality they've added, then you are completely correct.

Just my opinion, unless you can say what the value is yourself, without claiming that it can't be described in English or it is somewhere on a marketing graphic...

Ironically it's not a marketing graphic, it's an explanatory image with bullet points. The bullet points are actually largely technical, and nor marketing fodder at all. If you want to have a discussion you need to read those Design and Development goals, and then we can chat.

Sorry tough questions Fluffy, but in real world this is what you get.  You have worked with VCs, you should know this?

Monero is an open-source project with unpaid contributors all over the globe. If I got hit by a bus tomorrow it would continue. There's absolutely no comparison with a VC-backed business, and your inference shows how little you understand about open-source development (you must be spending too much time around scamcoins).

[BlockaFett]

Like I said, the claim here is Monero is going to change the world and a profound new technology etc.

No, not at all. The only valid claim is on the getmonero.org website: "Monero is a secure, private, untraceable currency that is open-source and freely available to all."

Every single world-changing human invention can have it's benefit described in one sentence.

Really? Describe the benefit of the Diffie-Hellman key exchange in one sentence. Or describe the benefit of the kingpost truss in one sentence? Or describe the benefit of the intraoperative cell salvage during invasive operations in one sentence?

Technical invention / innovation doesn't need "one sentence", because peers (hence peer review) don't mind reading.

Technical projects where the devs hide behind lots of text, shiny marketing graphics and claims that non-technical people are 'too blind to see it' are the ones that have no value in my experience.

I agree, that's why I've pointed out snake oil and scams like Ethereum and Darkcoin/Dash.

From the last few pages what I learned is:  There is not one unique reason why anyone would want to use Monero, apart from all the other Bytecoin clones are scams.

Absolutely, as long as you're happy to ignore the 800+ commits we've made and the functionality they've added, then you are completely correct.

Just my opinion, unless you can say what the value is yourself, without claiming that it can't be described in English or it is somewhere on a marketing graphic...

Ironically it's not a marketing graphic, it's an explanatory image with bullet points. The bullet points are actually largely technical, and nor marketing fodder at all. If you want to have a discussion you need to read those Design and Development goals, and then we can chat.

Sorry tough questions Fluffy, but in real world this is what you get.  You have worked with VCs, you should know this?

Monero is an open-source project with unpaid contributors all over the globe. If I got hit by a bus tomorrow it would continue. There's absolutely no comparison with a VC-backed business, and your inference shows how little you understand about open-source development (you must be spending too much time around scamcoins).

OK, your argument is that 'Monero is a secure, private, untraceable currency that is open-source and freely available to all.'

When I ask what is the *unique* value over all the other coins that claim to be private & untraceable the same as you do, including coins with essentially the *same code* as Monero, the answer is that it can't be described in one sentence...I got my answer, thanks.

[fluffypony]

Every single world-changing human invention can have it's benefit described in one sentence.

Oh really? What was the single-sentence value proposition of the internet back in 1988? Let's hear it... it better be visionary!

IDK. First way for users to instantly share digital information anywhere in the world using a common standard?  Is it a trick question?

How many users shared information in 1988? I started using the www with NCSA Mosaic in 1994 or 1995, and I didn't have a website until maybe 2002. Your value proposition is incorrect, and invalid until 20 years later.

[BlockaFett]

Every single world-changing human invention can have it's benefit described in one sentence.

Oh really? What was the single-sentence value proposition of the internet back in 1988? Let's hear it... it better be visionary!

IDK. First way for users to instantly share digital information anywhere in the world using a common standard?  Is it a trick question?

How many users shared information in 1988? I started using the www with NCSA Mosaic in 1994 or 1995, and I didn't have a website until maybe 2002. Your value proposition is incorrect, and invalid until 20 years later.

Sure Fluff

Still waiting for you to provide evidence for your accusation of a fellow coin dev committing fraud that I woke up today and saw: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=560138.msg11163736#msg11163736

[fluffypony]

OK, your argument is that 'Monero is a secure, private, untraceable currency that is open-source and freely available to all.'

When I ask what is the *unique* value over all the other coins that claim to be private & untraceable the same as you do, including coins with essentially the *same code* as Monero, the answer is that it can't be described in one sentence...I got my answer, thanks.

Dude you're right.

Also a Ferrari is essentially the same as an Audi TT.

An iPhone is essentially the same as a Nokia 3310.

A micro-SD is essentially the same as a 5.25" hard drive.

Facebook is essentially the same as MySpace.

[BlockaFett]

OK, your argument is that 'Monero is a secure, private, untraceable currency that is open-source and freely available to all.'

When I ask what is the *unique* value over all the other coins that claim to be private & untraceable the same as you do, including coins with essentially the *same code* as Monero, the answer is that it can't be described in one sentence...I got my answer, thanks.

Dude you're right.

Also a Ferrari is essentially the same as an Audi TT.

An iPhone is essentially the same as a Nokia 3310.

A micro-SD is essentially the same as a 5.25" hard drive.

Facebook is essentially the same as MySpace.

OK so Monero is as different to Bytecoin, Dashcoin, etc, as a Ferrari is to an Audi TT.....get it.

Care to explain *how* Monero is that different?  How is Monero tech so much more beneficial to users than Bytecoin/Dashcoin than a solid state disk is to a HD?   Does it sync faster and have faster transactions?  What exactly?

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Every single world-changing human invention can have it's benefit described in one sentence.

Oh really? What was the single-sentence value proposition of the internet back in 1988? Let's hear it... it better be visionary!

IDK. First way for users to instantly share digital information anywhere in the world using a common standard?  Is it a trick question?

What digital information did anyone have to share? Sorry, I don't see the value

[BlockaFett]

Every single world-changing human invention can have it's benefit described in one sentence.

Oh really? What was the single-sentence value proposition of the internet back in 1988? Let's hear it... it better be visionary!

IDK. First way for users to instantly share digital information anywhere in the world using a common standard?  Is it a trick question?

What digital information did anyone have to share? Sorry, I don't see the value

How the f*** do i know, share whatever data you want, ask Darpa lol, or google 'internet' and hope you don't break Google...(or lets hope actually)

this is getting tedious and I don't like wasting time.. I think I found the value proposition here...

[Johnny Mnemonic]

this is getting tedious and I don't like wasting time..

Really? You sure could've fooled me.

Let me know when you find those missing proofs of DASH's fungibility.