[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[myagui]

Since Bob will have read through the basics of the currency that he is using as payment method, Bob will most certainly know that he can optionally expose the necessary information so that Alice (or any 3rd party) can decode the transaction.

Sidenote: I just realized that Bob and Alice are most definitely the largest Monero whales in existence!

[Bavaria]

XMR devs, I have two question:

1) You claim XMR is untraceable. Does this mean that when Bob pays to Alice, Bob is unable to prove that he paid XMR to Alice?

2) Another question is how this transaction will appear on the blockchain?

wow you're lazy...

1) one way would be the viewkey feature

2) wut?

I'll give a more serious answer.

[1] No, Bob could, next to using the viewkey, prove on a case-by-case basis that he paid Alice. See -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=753252.msg12083138#msg12083138. In addition, he could use a payment ID to prove he paid Alice.

[2] With encrypted payment ID's the transaction will be similiar to a normal transactions.

I have to add though that I don't really know the specifics of it. But I hope this helps

Thanx dEBRUYNE !

[Bavaria]

XMR devs, I have two question:

1) You claim XMR is untraceable. Does this mean that when Bob pays to Alice, Bob is unable to prove that he paid XMR to Alice?

2) Another question is how this transaction will appear on the blockchain?

wow you're lazy...

1) one way would be the viewkey feature

2) wut?

I'll give a more serious answer.

[1] No, Bob could, next to using the viewkey, prove on a case-by-case basis that he paid Alice. See -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=753252.msg12083138#msg12083138. In addition, he could use a payment ID to prove he paid Alice.

[2] With encrypted payment ID's the transaction will be similiar to a normal transactions.

I have to add though that I don't really know the specifics of it. But I hope this helps

Then why we say the payment is untraceable if the buyer can prove he paid to the seller?

[dEBRUYNE]

XMR devs, I have two question:

1) You claim XMR is untraceable. Does this mean that when Bob pays to Alice, Bob is unable to prove that he paid XMR to Alice?

2) Another question is how this transaction will appear on the blockchain?

wow you're lazy...

1) one way would be the viewkey feature

2) wut?

I'll give a more serious answer.

[1] No, Bob could, next to using the viewkey, prove on a case-by-case basis that he paid Alice. See -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=753252.msg12083138#msg12083138. In addition, he could use a payment ID to prove he paid Alice.

[2] With encrypted payment ID's the transaction will be similiar to a normal transactions.

I have to add though that I don't really know the specifics of it. But I hope this helps

Then why we say the payment is untraceable if the buyer can prove he paid to the seller?

Because from the "outside" (think about observing the blockchain) you can't see if Bob revealed his case-by-case key or viewkey to Alice.

[GingerAle]

XMR devs, I have two question:

1) You claim XMR is untraceable. Does this mean that when Bob pays to Alice, Bob is unable to prove that he paid XMR to Alice?

2) Another question is how this transaction will appear on the blockchain?

wow you're lazy...

1) one way would be the viewkey feature

2) wut?

I'll give a more serious answer.

[1] No, Bob could, next to using the viewkey, prove on a case-by-case basis that he paid Alice. See -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=753252.msg12083138#msg12083138. In addition, he could use a payment ID to prove he paid Alice.

[2] With encrypted payment ID's the transaction will be similiar to a normal transactions.

I have to add though that I don't really know the specifics of it. But I hope this helps

Then why we say the payment is untraceable if the buyer can prove he paid to the seller?

Because from the "outside" (think about observing the blockchain) you can't see if Bob revealed his case-by-case key or viewkey to Alice.

think about it this way: with bitcoin, or any other transparent blockchain, the receipt of your transaction is in this huge pile of receipts that anyone can dig through for whatever reason.

with monero, the receipt stays in your wallet. You can choose to prove to someone that you bought something. No one else.

[Bavaria]

dEBRUYNE and GingeAle, thanx guys!

[dEBRUYNE]

Given current situation at Bitcoin and the dispute between the devs, I figured some people here might be interested in reading the following:

We've seen recently how discord between developers and also between factions in the larger community has slowed Bitcoin's development (and perhaps depressed its price), affecting the entire cryptocurrency sector. Monero's politics is more opaque. Here are some questions:

1. Do the XMR devs get along?
2. Do they share a vision for Monero's future?
3. Are there significant points of technical disagreement?
4. Does everyone agree on the development path (for example, that code review and optimization should precede "official" GUI development).
5. Does everyone agree on Monero's "governance model"?

There have been no major disagreements on any of these points. Sure there are technical disagreements at times, but ultimately the vision on purely technical issues comes down to we try something and if it doesn't work out we can change it. There were some heated discussions about the emissions curve debate last year but ultimately we came to agreement on that point too.

In terms of overall vision we strongly agree, and have agreed since the beginning of Monero (i.e. well before the block size debate became a big deal), that Bitcoin's development model is badly broken. While I'm not sure I can state a specific consensus of the Monero team as to a root cause, my personal opinion is that it largely comes down to premature maturity imposed on the basis of wishful thinking (i.e. like nearly every teenager). The Bitcoin community and especially some of the devs convinced themselves (the 2013 pump didn't hurt) that Bitcoin was already a big deal ("Billions in market cap!"), was rapidly approaching maturity, and needed to be treated as critical financial infrastructure like Visa or even Fedwire as opposed to a work in progress. That was erroneous in every possible way.

No one working on Monero sees it as anything but a work in progress and if I have anything to do with it they won't for a very long time (far beyond Bitcoin's current maturity).

[smooth]

Following up on the previous message (which quoted me), I think there is a missive in the works that talks about some of these issues. I don't know when it will be released.

[cAPSLOCK]

I consider myself a cunning linguist, and this still reads like Hermetic alchemy or something.

Being a cunning linguist may allow you to tokenize and parse a complex text into an adequate syntax tree, but you still need domain specific knowledge to derive proper semantics from it.

That was actually quite good.

[5w00p]

I consider myself a cunning linguist, and this still reads like Hermetic alchemy or something.

Being a cunning linguist may allow you to tokenize and parse a complex text into an adequate syntax tree, but you still need domain specific knowledge to derive proper semantics from it.

That was actually quite good.

Translation:
You might be hot shit in the big city, but can you skin a buck?

[Drhiggins]

Well I've been away for a few months.  Just caught up on posts here.  I see things are moving forward as usual.  Why would I expect otherwise, great community here for sure.    Also just donated to the NVIDIA project.  Since I'm mining with both NVIDIA and AMD I want to contribute where I can.  Donated to many projects over the last year.  Nice to see work getting done on many levels. 

[iCEBREAKER]

Happy Halving Day!



I'm sending our core devs and other pillars of the community some (private, unlinkable, untraceable) tokens of appreciation.

Next Halving Day (21.01.2017) will literally be celebrated ON THE MOON.   

[birr]

Happy Halving Day!

I'm sending our core devs and other pillars of the community some (private, unlinkable, untraceable) tokens of appreciation.

Next Halving Day (21.01.2017) will literally be celebrated ON THE MOON.   

Not literally.  But we appreciate the sentiment.

[GingerAle]

Happy Halving Day!

I'm sending our core devs and other pillars of the community some (private, unlinkable, untraceable) tokens of appreciation.

Next Halving Day (21.01.2017) will literally be celebrated ON THE MOON.   

Not literally.  But we appreciate the sentiment.

No. we will literally be celebrating on the moon. Because we gonna buy rockets. And launch into space. And fly in microgravity. Because you can fly on the moon in an air bubble.

[rpietila]

Happy Halving Day!



I'm sending our core devs and other pillars of the community some (private, unlinkable, untraceable) tokens of appreciation.

Hey this is correct! Gifting is the way to go!

If you want to gift in CryptoKingdom, remember that all the core devs + a few other active contributors are there. The character #39: Monero House is a foundation operated by the devteam through the elected executive chairman Sir smooth, HE The Marquess of Cryptoluna. ("luna" meaning "moon" for the illiteratus )

CK thread.

[smoothie]

Just made aware of this site:

http://moneronodes.i2p.xyz

[canth]

Just made aware of this site:

http://moneronodes.i2p.xyz

Yeah, it's definitely a good addition to Monero resources and it reminds us how important each of our full nodes are.

On this topic, is there a wiki with a list of resources? I find that there's a fair bit of information spread out in various Bitcointalk threads but otherwise very hard to find.

[jwinterm]

Just made aware of this site:

http://moneronodes.i2p.xyz

Yeah, it's definitely a good addition to Monero resources and it reminds us how important each of our full nodes are.

On this topic, is there a wiki with a list of resources? I find that there's a fair bit of information spread out in various Bitcointalk threads but otherwise very hard to find.

With i2p support coming soon™, this type of analysis should be a bit more complicated.

[GingerAle]

Just made aware of this site:

http://moneronodes.i2p.xyz

Yeah, it's definitely a good addition to Monero resources and it reminds us how important each of our full nodes are.

On this topic, is there a wiki with a list of resources? I find that there's a fair bit of information spread out in various Bitcointalk threads but otherwise very hard to find.

Yeah, this is a recurring problem in the monero ecosystem - distributed, sparse collection of information. https://moneroeconomy.com/ was being developed by the MEW, and there might be a central bunch of info there.

getmonero.org should become out tome, because fluffy maintains it, so we know its in good and dedicated hands. Things can be added to the site via github. I started some stuff and then got sidetracked... kinda embarrassing the current level of my effort on their.

monerobase.com is also nicely developed - clean and to the point, and also can be crowd source developed similar to getmonero.org

There's also monero.org , but no one knows who is developing that.

With i2p support coming soon™, this type of analysis should be a bit more complicated.

Indeed, though I think we'll still be able to detect # of peers, but not necessarily their country of origin.

[newb4now]

Just made aware of this site:

http://moneronodes.i2p.xyz

Yeah, it's definitely a good addition to Monero resources and it reminds us how important each of our full nodes are.

On this topic, is there a wiki with a list of resources? I find that there's a fair bit of information spread out in various Bitcointalk threads but otherwise very hard to find.

With i2p support coming soon™, this type of analysis should be a bit more complicated.

I won't mind the analysis being more complicated. I2P will be great for Monero