[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[Mumbles]

I think the point is still valid. Getting $5k or $10k each is not going to drastically change the amount of time you can spend on XMR over a six month or one year period, and given the donation amounts posted so far, its unlikely to even reach that much.

Perhaps it might be beneficial to publically state a commitment goal for the various devs. Something like:

Dev 1: if donations > x, then time spent on XMR will be >= t
Dev 2: if donations > x, then time spent on XMR will be >= z,

etc...

That will let the community know how much they need to raise to achieve a certain level of time or commitment or feature set. Its usually much easier to raise money for a set goal than an amorphous one.

None of us have full-time day jobs - all of us have companies or we work for ourselves or we work as freelancers.

[RentaMouse]

Above post reminded me of something I meant to post earlier:

Apparently part of the proposed new Monero website will be a subsite which will allow for crowdfunding of dev projects, including setting bounties, voting on priorities and so forth. Sounds like the new platform which AnarchyStar is sponsoring to replace the BTC Foundation could be ideal for adaptation, cant remember the name of it right now but I'm pretty sure it was going to be opensourced?


EDIT - after a quick Google my powers of recall are immeasurably enhanced:

Reddit post announcing the winner = http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/29n8o0/100000_bounty_winner_announcement/

Brief summary of main features to save busy ppl some reading:

Winner: Lighthouse (Mike Hearn)

    Crowdfunding platform, running completely on the Blockchain. Assurance contracts which send money back automatically if goals are not met.

    Will be able to fund Bitcoin core devs directly. They propose their schedule and goals, and they can set extra bonus features when they get extra funds (such as with Kickstarter).

    Will allow lobbyists to make proposals and be directly funded by the community, according to their capabilities

    Will allow many other community initiatives, such as supporting adoption in Africa by sponsoring ATMs, etc

[owlcatz]

Above post reminded me of something I meant to post earlier:

Apparently part of the proposed new Monero website will be a subsite which will allow for crowdfunding of dev projects, including setting bounties, voting on priorities and so forth. Sounds like the new platform which AnarchyStar is sponsoring to replace the BTC Foundation could be ideal for adaptation, cant remember the name of it right now but I'm pretty sure it was going to be opensourced?


EDIT - after a quick Google my powers of recall are immeasurably enhanced:

Reddit post announcing the winner = http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/29n8o0/100000_bounty_winner_announcement/

Brief summary of main features to save busy ppl some reading:

Winner: Lighthouse (Mike Hearn)

    Crowdfunding platform, running completely on the Blockchain. Assurance contracts which send money back automatically if goals are not met.

    Will be able to fund Bitcoin core devs directly. They propose their schedule and goals, and they can set extra bonus features when they get extra funds (such as with Kickstarter).

    Will allow lobbyists to make proposals and be directly funded by the community, according to their capabilities

    Will allow many other community initiatives, such as supporting adoption in Africa by sponsoring ATMs, etc

yeah this was news last week in reddit/r/bitcoin. but.. what.. does it have to do with monero exactly, im missing that part, sorry.

[Finger]

I have to point out that Cryptonite would scale to that point <...>

Sorry, what difference between Cryptonote & Cryptonite? Few times saw this note->nite, trying to understand ... Is it typo error [I/O is near], or what? I just learning English everyday, but then i comes to crypto o0

P.S.
Was ashamed, then i found now my hackable(was)->unhackable(corrected) earlear posted today.  :|

[blaaaaacksuit]

This is useless against the hunt for wealth coming from the bankrupt socialism in the G20 countries:

  Dude..Even bitcoin is not immune to the NSA. thats too far fetched now imo....NSA and Quantam Compute immunity that so many people want, comes with time, implementing I2P is still a great start for any coin, NSA immunity and such can come after.....

May be too late to wait to add real protection that I2P and Tor don't provide. ETA for global sovereign debt collapse starts Oct. 2015.

P.S. note I edited my post to change "useless" to "not sufficient".

Why Oct. 2015?

[AnonyMint]

May be too late to wait to add real protection that I2P and Tor don't provide. ETA for global sovereign debt collapse starts Oct. 2015.

P.S. note I edited my post to change "useless" to "not sufficient".

Why Oct. 2015?

See the last slide on the post that I had linked to.

Armstrong's A.I. computer model (which was fed all the data of the history of the world, $million of data collected from ancient coins, manuscripts, even for example pulling up all the data from old newspaper archives around the world) made those predictions in 1992 and they have all come true. The last item on that slide is the Oct 2015 target date for the "big bang" of the global sovereign debt crisis.

You may read chronologically (not right-to-left lol) backwards in that Mad Max thread (see also the Dark Enlightenment and Economic Devastation threads too) to get my detailed analysis and discussion. I can't summarize it for you.

Note everything won't go to hell exactly on Oct 2015. That is when the gears of acceleration will be set in motion, because the USA's current economic bounce due to capital inflows from abroad will have peaked.

Edit: Armstrong managed the $1+ trillion Japanese sovereign (Postal) fund in the past. This is the largest hedge fund manager ever.

[dewdeded]

2. Whether the I2P+ring is secure against the global police state.

Even if you are correct that limited transactions would allow #1 to scale, it doesn't diminish the fact that #2 is not secure against the global police state.

Who really needs to be secure against "global police state", must have full-anon internet connection anyway.
Monero alone doesnt have to be 100000% secure against any theoretical risk. Who needs this security level, most combine different techniques and systems (anyway).
Dont act like a privacy coin must include its own anonymity network as new network layer.

[AnonyMint]

2. Whether the I2P+ring is secure against the global police state.

Even if you are correct that limited transactions would allow #1 to scale, it doesn't diminish the fact that #2 is not secure against the global police state.

Who really needs to be secure against "global police state", must have full-anon internet connection anyway.

Everyone who has large wealth that they don't want confiscated by the bankrupted western socialism.

Agreed it requires some way to fully anonymize our interaction with the crypto-currency, but if you are implying that every aspect of the internet must be anonymous, then I disagree.

For example, some may wish to use the fully anonymous crypto-currency with mostly offline activities, so only their interaction with the coin's network needs to be protected. There are many other online scenarios as well.

Monero alone doesnt have to be 100000% secure against any theoretical risk. Who needs this security level,...

Snowden's revelations means it is not theoretical. Also I provided documentation that the G20 are actively ramping up their plans.

Again, "Everyone who has large wealth that they don't want confiscated by the bankrupted western socialism".

...most combine different techniques and systems (anyway).
Dont act like a privacy coin must include its own anonymity network as new network layer.

I know of no set of techniques for mining and or transacting on a crypto-currency that is nearly always anonymous to the NSA, except perhaps using an unregistered connection to the internet (which can't scale for most).

[blaaaaacksuit]

May be too late to wait to add real protection that I2P and Tor don't provide. ETA for global sovereign debt collapse starts Oct. 2015.

P.S. note I edited my post to change "useless" to "not sufficient".

Why Oct. 2015?

See the last slide on the post that I had linked to.

Armstrong's A.I. computer model (which was fed all the data of the history of the world, $million of data collected from ancient coins, manuscripts, even for example pulling up all the data from old newspaper archives around the world) made those predictions in 1992 and they have all come true. The last item on that slide is the Oct 2015 target date for the "big bang" of the global sovereign debt crisis.

You may read chronologically (not right-to-left lol) backwards in that Mad Max thread (see also the Dark Enlightenment and Economic Devastation threads too) to get my detailed analysis and discussion. I can't summarize it for you.

Note everything won't go to hell exactly on Oct 2015. That is when the gears of acceleration will be set in motion, because the USA's current economic bounce due to capital inflows from abroad will have peaked.

Edit: Armstrong managed the $1+ trillion Japanese sovereign (Postal) fund in the past. This is the largest hedge fund manager ever.

Very interesting.  Do you think cryptos will thrive or die during this episode?

[darkota]

Basically, just take this one step at a time. NSA stuff can come after the fundamentals are  done imo

[RentaMouse]

Basically, just take this one step at a time. NSA stuff can come after the fundamentals are  done imo

As long as the NSA aren't doing the fundamentals....

[AnonyMint]

I have to point out that Cryptonite would scale to that point with its "mini-blockchain", but it doesn't help much if you want anonymity. Maybe next there will be a scalable currency with anonymity. I doubt there will be one cryptocurrency for all uses...

The creator of the mini-block chain, bitfreak!, and I had a private message exchange about this recently as follows.

...I've actually found some good developers to implement the mini-blockchain scheme and we're making good progress.

[TEST RELEASE] Cryptonite binary for linux (mini-blockchain implementation)

Hello guys. Thanks for updating me. I am approaching my analysis more from the perspective of anonymous coins, since that is what I want to use (not all share this perspective with me). I've done some analysis of what is out there:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=557732.msg7514056#msg7514056

CryptoNote coins as currently implemented could never support a mini-blockchain and instead bloat the blockchain more severely than Bitcoin.

I am fairly certain Zerocash could never do a mini-blockchain since the balances of each coin are hidden because transaction amounts are hidden from everyone (including the creator of the setup parameters).

bitfreak! is interested in implementing the mini-blockchain on a bitcoin code case. Congratulations to him and his group for their progress. I am interested in seeing the mini-blockchain in an anonymous altcoin.

Let's hope we see both come to fruition in 2014.

Note I discovered a key innovation for the mini-block chain recently.

Very interesting.  Do you think cryptos will thrive or die during this episode?

Thrive!

but it will, I2P will close the last hole

Er. No. Try rereading my post that started this discussion today. Follow the link in that post. I even quoted the I2P website which admits it doesn't protect against a global adversary.

[surfer43]

I have to point out that Cryptonite would scale to that point <...>

Sorry, what difference between Cryptonote & Cryptonite? Few times saw this note->nite, trying to understand ... Is it typo error [I/O is near], or what? I just learning English everyday, but then i comes to crypto o0

It's not a typo and they're completely unrelated. The Cryptonite thread is here.

[AnonyMint]

Basically, just take this one step at a time. NSA stuff can come after the fundamentals are  done imo

You are not a programmer? Programmers understand that holistic design can cascade into the fundamentals.


Edit: if you see my first post in this thread today, I quoted myself from August 2013 wherein I made the point to the anoncoin and I2P developers the issue that low-latency Chaum mix-nets (e.g. Tor and I2P) are not blinding to the NSA. That is almost a year and still nothing accomplished on this fundamental issue (caveat that Zerocash in theory doen't need to blind your IP address, but I enumerated some severe tradeoffs, and this doesn't apply to Zerocoin).

[AnonyMint]

FYI, rpietila wrote that perhaps it was intended that Monero's first priority is not be the NSA-blinded coin.

[Anon136]

It can work for 99% of people, if those people just use it as a form of savings account, a tax haven in the cloud if you will. Obviously not if they are trying to use it for all of their expenditures. But no blockchain will ever scale to that point. Certainly bitcoin will never be able to be used by average joe for day to day transactions. Atleast not in a reasonably decentralized form.

the point is that monero is perfect for "survive the coming global police state" Large amounts in and large amounts in and large amounts out. Put 10,000 dollars in, and when ever you need some cash, withdraw atleast 1000 of it at a time.

You are conflating two orthogonal issues:

1. Whether Monero's ring signatures can scale.

2. Whether the I2P+ring is secure against the global police state.

Even if you are correct that limited transactions would allow #1 to scale, it doesn't diminish the fact that #2 is not secure against the global police state.

Personally I want an anonymous coin that I can also transact in, not just a saving account. Because without transactions, the coin won't survive or have network effects value. Again see the mathematical analysis of valuations that we did.

I think my 1 block chain per city and a blockchain to facilitate trades between city currencies answers the scalability problem atleast well enough. Ultimately no blockchains scale well. Its just a product of their decentralized nature.

But yes you are right i didn't address any criticisms you may have with i2p. How i would argue against that is to say that while you may be right, and even if i accept arguendo that you are, masking the ip address origin of a transaction is an entirely distinct problem and one with a much larger scope. It is not specifically a problem of how do you hide the source of transactions that are broadcast, its how do you avoid revealing the source of any information that is being communicated over a large network. I dont think it is the responsibility of cryptocurrency developers to solve this problem. I dont think its reasonable to expect cryptocurrency developers to also tackle this problem. If they did than that would be awesome, and it would have much wider reaching implications than just cryptocurrency.

[AnonyMint]

I think my 1 block chain per city and a blockchain to facilitate trades between city currencies answers the scalability problem atleast well enough.

There are numerous problems with that, but I don't time to go off on that technical tangent right now. Apologies I know that isn't really fair, but sorry I must choose to be unfair with my time allocation at the moment.

Ultimately no blockchains scale well. Its just a product of their decentralized nature.

As an expert programmer I know to be very wary of over generalizing. Having studied some of the details of the solutions (e.g. see the mini-block chain posts and even the posts about orphan rate vs. block period I've made), I believe you are mistaken. But I can't concretely prove you are (yet).

But yes you are right i didn't address any criticisms you may have with i2p. How i would argue against that is to say that while you may be right, and even if i accept arguendo that you are, masking the ip address origin of a transaction is an entirely distinct problem and one with a much larger scope.

Obfuscating the IP address for all internet activities has a different set of technical parameters than obfuscating it for interacting with the crypto-currency network. For example, Tor and I2P require low-latency (which makes them susceptible to timing analysis), but crypto-currencies don't. I told them that in August 2013 and still nobody has acted.

[darkota]

Monero might turn out to be the equivalent of Bitcoin, but for those who want private transactions like private companies(dell etc), and ordinary people who want privacy.

[owlcatz]

I think my 1 block chain per city and a blockchain to facilitate trades between city currencies answers the scalability problem atleast well enough.

There are numerous problems with that, but I don't time to go off on that technical tangent right now. Apologies I know that isn't really fair, but sorry I must choose to be unfair with my time allocation at the moment.

Ultimately no blockchains scale well. Its just a product of their decentralized nature.

As an expert programmer I know to be very wary of over generalizing. Having studied some of the details of the solutions (e.g. see the mini-block chain posts and even the posts about orphan rate vs. block period I've made), I believe you are mistaken. But I can't concretely prove you are (yet).

But yes you are right i didn't address any criticisms you may have with i2p. How i would argue against that is to say that while you may be right, and even if i accept arguendo that you are, masking the ip address origin of a transaction is an entirely distinct problem and one with a much larger scope.

Obfuscating the IP address for all internet activities has a different set of technical parameters than obfuscating it for interacting with the crypto-currency network. For example, Tor and I2P require low-latency (which makes them susceptible to timing analysis), but crypto-currencies don't. I told them that in August 2013 and still nobody has acted.

Dude. what the fuck is your point? that this currency is not able to be untrackable by the fucking nsa? Da fuq - go copy it out and write your own coin mr. expert programmer. stop dumping on innovation you retard.

have a nice life, loser!  

[Anon136]

I think my 1 block chain per city and a blockchain to facilitate trades between city currencies answers the scalability problem atleast well enough.

There are numerous problems with that, but I don't time to go off on that technical tangent right now. Apologies I know that isn't really fair, but sorry I must choose to be unfair with my time allocation at the moment.

Ultimately no blockchains scale well. Its just a product of their decentralized nature.

As an expert programmer I know to be very wary of over generalizing. Having studied some of the details of the solutions (e.g. see the mini-block chain posts and even the posts about orphan rate vs. block period I've made), I believe you are mistaken. But I can't concretely prove you are (yet).

But yes you are right i didn't address any criticisms you may have with i2p. How i would argue against that is to say that while you may be right, and even if i accept arguendo that you are, masking the ip address origin of a transaction is an entirely distinct problem and one with a much larger scope.

Obfuscating the IP address for all internet activities has a different set of technical parameters than obfuscating it for interacting with the crypto-currency network. For example, Tor and I2P require low-latency (which makes them susceptible to timing analysis), but crypto-currencies don't. I told them that in August 2013 and still nobody has acted.

As a person who knows about the Dunning Kruger Effect I tend to be wary of people who tell me they are experts.

With that said i understand that one must budget his time. If you actually can make truely scalable blockchains than for christ sake please dont waste your time on me responding to my comments. I have a reasonable objective assessment of my own value and i am not valuable enough to be worth consuming the time of someone who knows how to solve that problem. Please just go solve it now. Before you get hit by a bus or something.