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pnosker
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June 27, 2014, 11:25:55 PM |
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hahaha do you guys remember a few weeks ago when vericoin was in the 500-700 sat range. yes thats right 5-7 HUNDRED not thousand. And everyone was worrying and I came on here I was like wtf this coin is a good coin you guys are all crazy haha. read from pages 65-75 you will see what I was saying.
I bought 70,000 VRC lol. for .6 btc. Crazy right?
I sold them all, didn't keep any, i got them all out around 20k, but don't worry, I promise I won't FUD. I definitely regret selling, but whatever I made a lot of money, I guess that's what everyone wants right? I guess I can only be SO angry at myself.
Anyway, to those of you that still hold, and to those who bought in recently, best of luck to you!! This is a solid coin with lots of potential. All I want to do is warn you guys about wizfarm. He was involved in the bc debacle, and the cinni debacle...and I think we all realize the reason why bc and cinni price won't rise is because of the unfair distribution. To those of you who question wizfarms "deep pockets" and where he gets all that money from, bc and cinni are your answer. So I stay away from anything wizfarm is involved in and I wouldn't touch him with a 3987657 foot pole haha.
Miami - "A sunny place for shady people"
^I am from pembroke pines/ west palm beach area so I know what I am talking about haha
I've seen Wiz's wallet. He has less than I do, and all the developers combined hold less than 5% because of the rapid hashrate increases thanks to IPO miner. I wish I mined more... rented over 100 MH/s but didn't make me super hyper rich. Anyway, there is no chance Wiz will dump this coin. The fact that he has devs he can speak to and know who they are seems to have changed his intentions. After all, who writes a 5 figure check for a months-long project to help the coin when they are going to dump it. Dude, maybe you are new to crypto, maybe not, but if you are, let me help you out a bit. 1. Lots of people have multiple wallets. I have 3 bc wallets and if someone asked me how many bc I hold and I wanted them to think I only had a little bit, I would show them my bc wallet which has 2467 coins in it, not the one that has 22,151, or the one with 37,845. You get my point? 2. Noone spends that amount of time and money in a coin when they are not heavily invested in it. This isn't a charity brother, and everyone here is looking for profit, including me, including yourself. Thats it. In order for you to make money, someone has to be losing money. Think about it. 3. Don't trust anyone on the internet, especially if they are from Miami. Lol I am not speaking out of turn when I tell you DON'T TRUST PEOPLE FROM MIAMI. I know it sounds stupid but believe me, Miami is a place that perpetuates a dog eat dog culture of "IMA get mine", trust me, I used to live there. People from Miami are like car salesman, they are great at telling people what they wanna hear. The phrase "Miami, a sunny place for shady people" could not explain it better. Anyway maybe you are not n I've been in Crypto since Satoshi posted his whitepaper. Thanks for the lesson, though. You can believe what you want but he has no reason to lie to me. I'm not giving anything to him. He doesn't have control over the coin. Maybe he did with BC with an essentially inactive developer. But the 2 other devs and I are running the show. We aren't doing anything special for Mr. Bosch. He's just being a friendly investor because he legitimately believes in the coin. |
Support the VeriFund Endowment.
VRC: VFEndownxxnHea9mv59kZx8c7TysGbndYx
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barabbas
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
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June 27, 2014, 11:28:09 PM |
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hahaha do you guys remember a few weeks ago when vericoin was in the 500-700 sat range. yes thats right 5-7 HUNDRED not thousand. And everyone was worrying and I came on here I was like wtf this coin is a good coin you guys are all crazy haha. read from pages 65-75 you will see what I was saying.
I bought 70,000 VRC lol. for .6 btc. Crazy right?
I sold them all, didn't keep any, i got them all out around 20k, but don't worry, I promise I won't FUD. I definitely regret selling, but whatever I made a lot of money, I guess that's what everyone wants right? I guess I can only be SO angry at myself.
Anyway, to those of you that still hold, and to those who bought in recently, best of luck to you!! This is a solid coin with lots of potential. All I want to do is warn you guys about wizfarm. He was involved in the bc debacle, and the cinni debacle...and I think we all realize the reason why bc and cinni price won't rise is because of the unfair distribution. To those of you who question wizfarms "deep pockets" and where he gets all that money from, bc and cinni are your answer. So I stay away from anything wizfarm is involved in and I wouldn't touch him with a 3987657 foot pole haha.
Miami - "A sunny place for shady people"
^I am from pembroke pines/ west palm beach area so I know what I am talking about haha
I've seen Wiz's wallet. He has less than I do, and all the developers combined hold less than 5% because of the rapid hashrate increases thanks to IPO miner. I wish I mined more... rented over 100 MH/s but didn't make me super hyper rich. Anyway, there is no chance Wiz will dump this coin. The fact that he has devs he can speak to and know who they are seems to have changed his intentions. After all, who writes a 5 figure check for a months-long project to help the coin when they are going to dump it. So how is he going to get his money back plus some profit? And that is not counting what he is going to have to spend in the party, which is several times that 50 figure amount? Perhaps there's some investment on the side via Black Hand? Of he is just a good samaritan throwing money to promote Vericoin with no possibility whatsoever to ever make any money even if Vericoin goes to 400k sat. Or even 4 MILLION sat? Is that what "he legitimately believes in the coin" means? So altogether you, the 3 devs, have around 1 million coins and you haven't dumped any, is that what you are saying? |
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Jesse Livermore
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June 27, 2014, 11:29:18 PM |
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I warned the XC board minutes before their bubble popped, so I'll warn you guys...
You're bubble has popped. Big large red volume bars are taking over. The pump is over, dump commenced. No I have no interest in buying your coin for cheap.
JL
So you'll be buying higher? If you make a higher-high I'll retract my statement, however I ain't touching the coin. Deal  Bravo This is pretty 'un-crypto'-like behavior. Quite bizarre. |
I own a DASH Masternode.... And you should too.
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benthach
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1000
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June 27, 2014, 11:29:54 PM |
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good money (btc).
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reddit btcwriter1 - twitter kingpininvestor
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parker928
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June 27, 2014, 11:30:43 PM |
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hahaha do you guys remember a few weeks ago when vericoin was in the 500-700 sat range. yes thats right 5-7 HUNDRED not thousand. And everyone was worrying and I came on here I was like wtf this coin is a good coin you guys are all crazy haha. read from pages 65-75 you will see what I was saying.
I bought 70,000 VRC lol. for .6 btc. Crazy right?
I sold them all, didn't keep any, i got them all out around 20k, but don't worry, I promise I won't FUD. I definitely regret selling, but whatever I made a lot of money, I guess that's what everyone wants right? I guess I can only be SO angry at myself.
Anyway, to those of you that still hold, and to those who bought in recently, best of luck to you!! This is a solid coin with lots of potential. All I want to do is warn you guys about wizfarm. He was involved in the bc debacle, and the cinni debacle...and I think we all realize the reason why bc and cinni price won't rise is because of the unfair distribution. To those of you who question wizfarms "deep pockets" and where he gets all that money from, bc and cinni are your answer. So I stay away from anything wizfarm is involved in and I wouldn't touch him with a 3987657 foot pole haha.
Miami - "A sunny place for shady people"
^I am from pembroke pines/ west palm beach area so I know what I am talking about haha
I've seen Wiz's wallet. He has less than I do, and all the developers combined hold less than 5% because of the rapid hashrate increases thanks to IPO miner. I wish I mined more... rented over 100 MH/s but didn't make me super hyper rich. Anyway, there is no chance Wiz will dump this coin. The fact that he has devs he can speak to and know who they are seems to have changed his intentions. After all, who writes a 5 figure check for a months-long project to help the coin when they are going to dump it. Dude, maybe you are new to crypto, maybe not, but if you are, let me help you out a bit. 1. Lots of people have multiple wallets. I have 3 bc wallets and if someone asked me how many bc I hold and I wanted them to think I only had a little bit, I would show them my bc wallet which has 2467 coins in it, not the one that has 22,151, or the one with 37,845. You get my point? 2. Noone spends that amount of time and money in a coin when they are not heavily invested in it. This isn't a charity brother, and everyone here is looking for profit, including me, including yourself. Thats it. In order for you to make money, someone has to be losing money. Think about it. 3. Don't trust anyone on the internet, especially if they are from Miami. Lol I am not speaking out of turn when I tell you DON'T TRUST PEOPLE FROM MIAMI. I know it sounds stupid but believe me, Miami is a place that perpetuates a dog eat dog culture of "IMA get mine", trust me, I used to live there. People from Miami are like car salesman, they are great at telling people what they wanna hear. The phrase "Miami, a sunny place for shady people" could not explain it better. Anyway maybe you are not n I've been in Crypto since Satoshi posted his whitepaper. Thanks for the lesson, though. You can believe what you want but he has no reason to lie to me. I'm not giving anything to him. He doesn't have control over the coin. Maybe he did with BC with an essentially inactive developer. But the 2 other devs and I are running the show. We aren't doing anything special for Mr. Bosch. He's just being a friendly investor because he legitimately believes in the coin. 1. "essentially inactive developer" - right there that showed me you don't know what you are talking about. Check RAT4's github account you will see over 3000 commits for bc, most coins get 20-50. 2. If you have been in crypto that long you should know how possible (and likely) it is that someone may show just one of their wallets. 3. "I'm not giving anything to him" Of course not. But You bought vericoin, and IF he has a lot of control over the coin, you are technically, inadvertently, giving him your btc. note that I said IF |
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sdmathis
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June 27, 2014, 11:31:01 PM |
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hahaha do you guys remember a few weeks ago when vericoin was in the 500-700 sat range. yes thats right 5-7 HUNDRED not thousand. And everyone was worrying and I came on here I was like wtf this coin is a good coin you guys are all crazy haha. read from pages 65-75 you will see what I was saying.
I bought 70,000 VRC lol. for .6 btc. Crazy right?
I sold them all, didn't keep any, i got them all out around 20k, but don't worry, I promise I won't FUD. I definitely regret selling, but whatever I made a lot of money, I guess that's what everyone wants right? I guess I can only be SO angry at myself.
Anyway, to those of you that still hold, and to those who bought in recently, best of luck to you!! This is a solid coin with lots of potential. All I want to do is warn you guys about wizfarm. He was involved in the bc debacle, and the cinni debacle...and I think we all realize the reason why bc and cinni price won't rise is because of the unfair distribution. To those of you who question wizfarms "deep pockets" and where he gets all that money from, bc and cinni are your answer. So I stay away from anything wizfarm is involved in and I wouldn't touch him with a 3987657 foot pole haha.
Miami - "A sunny place for shady people"
^I am from pembroke pines/ west palm beach area so I know what I am talking about haha
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/abrahamlin109276.html |
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MAD945
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June 27, 2014, 11:31:29 PM |
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Blah Blah PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!! Blah blah blah
Getting old barabbas! |
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xCryptoManiaX
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June 27, 2014, 11:32:01 PM |
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Blah Blah PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!! Blah blah blah
Getting old barabbas! Why is this guy still around? |
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pnosker
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June 27, 2014, 11:32:36 PM |
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hahaha do you guys remember a few weeks ago when vericoin was in the 500-700 sat range. yes thats right 5-7 HUNDRED not thousand. And everyone was worrying and I came on here I was like wtf this coin is a good coin you guys are all crazy haha. read from pages 65-75 you will see what I was saying.
I bought 70,000 VRC lol. for .6 btc. Crazy right?
I sold them all, didn't keep any, i got them all out around 20k, but don't worry, I promise I won't FUD. I definitely regret selling, but whatever I made a lot of money, I guess that's what everyone wants right? I guess I can only be SO angry at myself.
Anyway, to those of you that still hold, and to those who bought in recently, best of luck to you!! This is a solid coin with lots of potential. All I want to do is warn you guys about wizfarm. He was involved in the bc debacle, and the cinni debacle...and I think we all realize the reason why bc and cinni price won't rise is because of the unfair distribution. To those of you who question wizfarms "deep pockets" and where he gets all that money from, bc and cinni are your answer. So I stay away from anything wizfarm is involved in and I wouldn't touch him with a 3987657 foot pole haha.
Miami - "A sunny place for shady people"
^I am from pembroke pines/ west palm beach area so I know what I am talking about haha
I've seen Wiz's wallet. He has less than I do, and all the developers combined hold less than 5% because of the rapid hashrate increases thanks to IPO miner. I wish I mined more... rented over 100 MH/s but didn't make me super hyper rich. Anyway, there is no chance Wiz will dump this coin. The fact that he has devs he can speak to and know who they are seems to have changed his intentions. After all, who writes a 5 figure check for a months-long project to help the coin when they are going to dump it. So how is he going to get his money back plus some profit? And that is not counting what he is going to have to spend in the party, which is several times that 50 figure amount? Perhaps there's some investment on the side via Black Hand? Of he is just a good samaritan throwing money to promote Vericoin with no possibility whatsoever to ever make any money even if Vericoin goes to 400k sat. Or even 4 MILLION sat? Is that what "he legitimately believes in the coin" means? So altogether you, the 3 devs, have around 1 million coins and you haven't dumped any, is that what you are saying? The 3 devs including me have less than 1 M coins. I just sold 2000 of them a few minutes ago at 43000 to pay the last two months hosting bill for the supernodes and dnsseeds. |
Support the VeriFund Endowment.
VRC: VFEndownxxnHea9mv59kZx8c7TysGbndYx
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Ed4252
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June 27, 2014, 11:33:08 PM |
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This coin is as good as it gets.
I believe if this coin does not succeed, every single alt coin out there will be a pump and dump.
So much of the world population have yet to own a bitcoin, yet this coin has faster confirmation times.
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parker928
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June 27, 2014, 11:33:15 PM |
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hahaha do you guys remember a few weeks ago when vericoin was in the 500-700 sat range. yes thats right 5-7 HUNDRED not thousand. And everyone was worrying and I came on here I was like wtf this coin is a good coin you guys are all crazy haha. read from pages 65-75 you will see what I was saying.
I bought 70,000 VRC lol. for .6 btc. Crazy right?
I sold them all, didn't keep any, i got them all out around 20k, but don't worry, I promise I won't FUD. I definitely regret selling, but whatever I made a lot of money, I guess that's what everyone wants right? I guess I can only be SO angry at myself.
Anyway, to those of you that still hold, and to those who bought in recently, best of luck to you!! This is a solid coin with lots of potential. All I want to do is warn you guys about wizfarm. He was involved in the bc debacle, and the cinni debacle...and I think we all realize the reason why bc and cinni price won't rise is because of the unfair distribution. To those of you who question wizfarms "deep pockets" and where he gets all that money from, bc and cinni are your answer. So I stay away from anything wizfarm is involved in and I wouldn't touch him with a 3987657 foot pole haha.
Miami - "A sunny place for shady people"
^I am from pembroke pines/ west palm beach area so I know what I am talking about haha
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/abrahamlin109276.htmlIf you weren't a dev of vericoin that quote would have a lot more weight in this particular situation. great quote though |
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pnosker
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June 27, 2014, 11:33:44 PM |
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hahaha do you guys remember a few weeks ago when vericoin was in the 500-700 sat range. yes thats right 5-7 HUNDRED not thousand. And everyone was worrying and I came on here I was like wtf this coin is a good coin you guys are all crazy haha. read from pages 65-75 you will see what I was saying.
I bought 70,000 VRC lol. for .6 btc. Crazy right?
I sold them all, didn't keep any, i got them all out around 20k, but don't worry, I promise I won't FUD. I definitely regret selling, but whatever I made a lot of money, I guess that's what everyone wants right? I guess I can only be SO angry at myself.
Anyway, to those of you that still hold, and to those who bought in recently, best of luck to you!! This is a solid coin with lots of potential. All I want to do is warn you guys about wizfarm. He was involved in the bc debacle, and the cinni debacle...and I think we all realize the reason why bc and cinni price won't rise is because of the unfair distribution. To those of you who question wizfarms "deep pockets" and where he gets all that money from, bc and cinni are your answer. So I stay away from anything wizfarm is involved in and I wouldn't touch him with a 3987657 foot pole haha.
Miami - "A sunny place for shady people"
^I am from pembroke pines/ west palm beach area so I know what I am talking about haha
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/abrahamlin109276.htmlIf you weren't a dev of vericoin that quote would have a lot more weight in this particular situation. great quote though sdmathis is not a dev of VeriCoin. He's just a very excited member of the community and appointed community manager because he tweets a lot  . |
Support the VeriFund Endowment.
VRC: VFEndownxxnHea9mv59kZx8c7TysGbndYx
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parker928
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June 27, 2014, 11:38:48 PM |
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hahaha do you guys remember a few weeks ago when vericoin was in the 500-700 sat range. yes thats right 5-7 HUNDRED not thousand. And everyone was worrying and I came on here I was like wtf this coin is a good coin you guys are all crazy haha. read from pages 65-75 you will see what I was saying.
I bought 70,000 VRC lol. for .6 btc. Crazy right?
I sold them all, didn't keep any, i got them all out around 20k, but don't worry, I promise I won't FUD. I definitely regret selling, but whatever I made a lot of money, I guess that's what everyone wants right? I guess I can only be SO angry at myself.
Anyway, to those of you that still hold, and to those who bought in recently, best of luck to you!! This is a solid coin with lots of potential. All I want to do is warn you guys about wizfarm. He was involved in the bc debacle, and the cinni debacle...and I think we all realize the reason why bc and cinni price won't rise is because of the unfair distribution. To those of you who question wizfarms "deep pockets" and where he gets all that money from, bc and cinni are your answer. So I stay away from anything wizfarm is involved in and I wouldn't touch him with a 3987657 foot pole haha.
Miami - "A sunny place for shady people"
^I am from pembroke pines/ west palm beach area so I know what I am talking about haha
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/abrahamlin109276.htmlIf you weren't a dev of vericoin that quote would have a lot more weight in this particular situation. great quote though sdmathis is not a dev of VeriCoin. He's just a very excited member of the community and appointed community manager because he tweets a lot . Thank you for the correction. Dev, community manager, large holder, whatever, you understand my point. |
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barabbas
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
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June 27, 2014, 11:48:50 PM |
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hahaha do you guys remember a few weeks ago when vericoin was in the 500-700 sat range. yes thats right 5-7 HUNDRED not thousand. And everyone was worrying and I came on here I was like wtf this coin is a good coin you guys are all crazy haha. read from pages 65-75 you will see what I was saying.
I bought 70,000 VRC lol. for .6 btc. Crazy right?
I sold them all, didn't keep any, i got them all out around 20k, but don't worry, I promise I won't FUD. I definitely regret selling, but whatever I made a lot of money, I guess that's what everyone wants right? I guess I can only be SO angry at myself.
Anyway, to those of you that still hold, and to those who bought in recently, best of luck to you!! This is a solid coin with lots of potential. All I want to do is warn you guys about wizfarm. He was involved in the bc debacle, and the cinni debacle...and I think we all realize the reason why bc and cinni price won't rise is because of the unfair distribution. To those of you who question wizfarms "deep pockets" and where he gets all that money from, bc and cinni are your answer. So I stay away from anything wizfarm is involved in and I wouldn't touch him with a 3987657 foot pole haha.
Miami - "A sunny place for shady people"
^I am from pembroke pines/ west palm beach area so I know what I am talking about haha
I've seen Wiz's wallet. He has less than I do, and all the developers combined hold less than 5% because of the rapid hashrate increases thanks to IPO miner. I wish I mined more... rented over 100 MH/s but didn't make me super hyper rich. Anyway, there is no chance Wiz will dump this coin. The fact that he has devs he can speak to and know who they are seems to have changed his intentions. After all, who writes a 5 figure check for a months-long project to help the coin when they are going to dump it. So how is he going to get his money back plus some profit? And that is not counting what he is going to have to spend in the party, which is several times that 50 figure amount? Perhaps there's some investment on the side via Black Hand? Of he is just a good samaritan throwing money to promote Vericoin with no possibility whatsoever to ever make any money even if Vericoin goes to 400k sat. Or even 4 MILLION sat? Is that what "he legitimately believes in the coin" means? So altogether you, the 3 devs, have around 1 million coins and you haven't dumped any, is that what you are saying? The 3 devs including me have less than 1 M coins. I just sold 2000 of them a few minutes ago at 43000 to pay the last two months hosting bill for the supernodes and dnsseeds. Thank you for your answer. And Joel then has less than 200k coins (that you know of)? That would be roughly 90 BTC at current prices. That would indeed be a very long time investment if he ever expects to make his money back and then some profit, after paying probably as much as that for Bristol and the upcoming big party... A lot of faith indeed. Now, if, on the other hand, the Black Hand is guaranteeing the profits from the get go, the situation changes substantially, doesn't it? |
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alwa1
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June 27, 2014, 11:50:56 PM |
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hahaha do you guys remember a few weeks ago when vericoin was in the 500-700 sat range. yes thats right 5-7 HUNDRED not thousand. And everyone was worrying and I came on here I was like wtf this coin is a good coin you guys are all crazy haha. read from pages 65-75 you will see what I was saying.
I bought 70,000 VRC lol. for .6 btc. Crazy right?
I sold them all, didn't keep any, i got them all out around 20k, but don't worry, I promise I won't FUD. I definitely regret selling, but whatever I made a lot of money, I guess that's what everyone wants right? I guess I can only be SO angry at myself.
Anyway, to those of you that still hold, and to those who bought in recently, best of luck to you!! This is a solid coin with lots of potential. All I want to do is warn you guys about wizfarm. He was involved in the bc debacle, and the cinni debacle...and I think we all realize the reason why bc and cinni price won't rise is because of the unfair distribution. To those of you who question wizfarms "deep pockets" and where he gets all that money from, bc and cinni are your answer. So I stay away from anything wizfarm is involved in and I wouldn't touch him with a 3987657 foot pole haha.
Miami - "A sunny place for shady people"
^I am from pembroke pines/ west palm beach area so I know what I am talking about haha
I've seen Wiz's wallet. He has less than I do, and all the developers combined hold less than 5% because of the rapid hashrate increases thanks to IPO miner. I wish I mined more... rented over 100 MH/s but didn't make me super hyper rich. Anyway, there is no chance Wiz will dump this coin. The fact that he has devs he can speak to and know who they are seems to have changed his intentions. After all, who writes a 5 figure check for a months-long project to help the coin when they are going to dump it. So how is he going to get his money back plus some profit? And that is not counting what he is going to have to spend in the party, which is several times that 50 figure amount? Perhaps there's some investment on the side via Black Hand? Of he is just a good samaritan throwing money to promote Vericoin with no possibility whatsoever to ever make any money even if Vericoin goes to 400k sat. Or even 4 MILLION sat? Is that what "he legitimately believes in the coin" means? So altogether you, the 3 devs, have around 1 million coins and you haven't dumped any, is that what you are saying? The 3 devs including me have less than 1 M coins. I just sold 2000 of them a few minutes ago at 43000 to pay the last two months hosting bill for the supernodes and dnsseeds. Thank you for your answer. And Joel then has less than 200k coins (that you know of)? That would be roughly 90 BTC at current prices. That would indeed be a very long time investment if he ever expects to make his money back and then some profit, after paying probably as much as that for Bristol and the upcoming big party... A lot of faith indeed. Now, if, on the other hand, the Black Hand is guaranteeing the profits from the get go, the situation changes substantially, doesn't it? Scammers opinion does not count  |
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Auna
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June 27, 2014, 11:55:58 PM |
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YES! I haven't been around here today and what a wonderful surprise the price is over 40k sat! UP WE GO!
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Bitcycle
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June 27, 2014, 11:56:31 PM |
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Wait, buying VRC with credit cards???
How will this avoid the chargeback problem that plagues crypto purchases with credit cards?
There's a reason you can't buy BTC with credit cards, and it ain't cause no one 'innovated' it.
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barabbas
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
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June 28, 2014, 12:03:08 AM |
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The 3 devs including me have less than 1 M coins. I just sold 2000 of them a few minutes ago at 43000 to pay the last two months hosting bill for the supernodes and dnsseeds.
And this, by the way, if true is very good for the coin and very good for crypto and I commend you for such transparency. Why not even mentioning it in the hangout. It deserves showcasing, in fact. Thanks again for it. Praise where praise is indeed due.As for Joel's abilities, talent and clean purposes, some of us will believe in them after months if not years after delivery or when hell freezes over, whichever comes first. |
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Poll
