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UnunoctiumTesticles
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October 14, 2014, 10:38:17 AM
Last edit: October 14, 2014, 11:06:51 AM by UnunoctiumTesticles |
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It is BS to claim that Zerocoin is not analogous to mixing. The anonymity set is reduced by the timing of coining and destruction of each zerocoin. Otherwise you put the entire block chain into a mix as Zerocash does, but then (I think but I'm not 100% sure) you have the problem that double-spends can't be reverted individually (i.e. afaik there is no coin id to associate two spends on two forks), you have to revert entire blocks which means a 51% attack is an all-of-nothing affair and I speculate that my solution to the selfish-mining attack (otherwise only 25% of hashrate needed to attack a coin) doesn't work for something like Zerocash. Also my calculation is that neither Zerocoin nor Zerocash can scale to global transaction volume, especially when you factor in micro payments over social networking. Also I don't think cryptographers would agree that such a new and complex cryptography is proven until it has been vetted for a decade or so. I didnt fail anything
Correct knowledge is more valuable than useless pride. |
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vizique
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Activity: 2422
Merit: 1641
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October 14, 2014, 09:32:35 PM |
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BC
is designed a 100% premined pump&dump get-rich-quickly coin, which I did not touch when it was introduced to me in the early days of the first pump. Stay out (unless you like to be on the receiving end).
Totally and factually incorrect and as such means that ou have done no research and your word is not to be trusted and or you have your own agenda.
Or, and here's a real brain bender, TALK to the people that are involved with it to get the real details and FACTS straight.
It's very easy to stand at the edges and pontificate as though you are an authority... but its easier for those that research to see you for that lazy person you are.
0/10 Go to the back of the class, better still, leave the room
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rdnkjdi
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October 15, 2014, 12:54:14 AM |
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I follow Ethereum & I thought this was interesting from StephanTual. No, the real nightmare scenario is that Ethereum becomes co-opted by the current legal, political and economic system before it can gain traction as a liberating tool for the general population. I.e, that it gets relegated to a 'faster, more efficient way' to do what already exists. Case in point: Bitcoin, if adopted as a global, 'one world currency' by governments would be far worse than cash from a societal point of view. On that note, I thank Matthew Slater for his insightful article on http://matslats.net/ethereum-fate-bitcoin. I'm currently thinking of ways to make it difficult to co-opt out of the gate, I reckon optional total anonymity via a ZeroCash implementation as a smart contract is something worth researching very early on. |
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wizzardTim
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Reality is stranger than fiction
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October 15, 2014, 01:16:11 PM |
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From what it seems qora will be the first worldwide to have AT integrated into its core! @rpietila: have you checked qora? you can check the following posts: Since this thread is about observing altcoins, I wonder why I haven't seen more references to qora.. |
Behold the Tangle Mysteries! Dare to know It's truth.
- Excerpt from the IOTA Sacred Texts Vol. I
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darlidada
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October 15, 2014, 01:27:37 PM |
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From what it seems qora will be the first worldwide to have AT integrated into its core! @rpietila: have you checked qora? you can check the following posts: Since this thread is about observing altcoins, I wonder why I haven't seen more references to qora.. Because its closed-source? or maybe "was" ? it's been a while since last time i've checked it out |
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wizzardTim
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Reality is stranger than fiction
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October 15, 2014, 01:37:15 PM |
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From what it seems qora will be the first worldwide to have AT integrated into its core! @rpietila: have you checked qora? you can check the following posts: Since this thread is about observing altcoins, I wonder why I haven't seen more references to qora.. Because its closed-source? or maybe "was" ? it's been a while since last time i've checked it out It will be OS once the website and some other stuff are done. There is no way this is a scam. I mean the dev constantly keeps updating and communicating with the community. Just be patient. Regarding OS please check here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=522102.msg9208721#msg9208721 It has a link to the first voting for OS. Guys, we're talking about Complete Turing Engine, before Etherium! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=770239.0If this isn't a once-in-a-livetime chance, then what is it? |
Behold the Tangle Mysteries! Dare to know It's truth.
- Excerpt from the IOTA Sacred Texts Vol. I
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illodin
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October 15, 2014, 01:39:56 PM |
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What it does is basically the same as Ethereum *except* that AT has been designed to be added to *any blockchain system*.
This means that the idea of "atomic cross-chain transfers" (that people may have heard about) would not only be possible between Bitcoin/Litecoin clones but *any blockchain*.
AT is open source (MIT License) and has been very thoroughly tested (every op code has unit tests - around 6 months of work by three people was put into doing this).
So qora adds this open source code developed by someone else into their coin "first", and this is supposed make qora somehow special exactly why? Dogecoin can add it as well if it has any value, right? |
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darlidada
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October 15, 2014, 01:44:10 PM |
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From what it seems qora will be the first worldwide to have AT integrated into its core! @rpietila: have you checked qora? you can check the following posts: Since this thread is about observing altcoins, I wonder why I haven't seen more references to qora.. Because its closed-source? or maybe "was" ? it's been a while since last time i've checked it out It will be OS once the website and some other stuff are done. There is no way this is a scam. I mean the dev constantly keeps updating and communicating with the community. Just be patient. Regarding OS please check here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=522102.msg9208721#msg9208721 It has a link to the first voting for OS. Guys, we're talking about Complete Turing Engine, before Etherium! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=770239.0If this isn't a once-in-a-livetime chance, then what is it? Maybe it is. But the simple fact that it is still closed-source will be a turn off for many "investors". Also, I don't understand the reasoning behind not going open-source. There is nothing to be afraid of ! Especially clones... The only way a clone overcome the first implementation of the code is if the community leaves one for the other. The only way it happens is if the community as something to gain from the transfuge. |
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wizzardTim
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Reality is stranger than fiction
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October 15, 2014, 01:50:27 PM |
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From what it seems qora will be the first worldwide to have AT integrated into its core! @rpietila: have you checked qora? you can check the following posts: Since this thread is about observing altcoins, I wonder why I haven't seen more references to qora.. Because its closed-source? or maybe "was" ? it's been a while since last time i've checked it out It will be OS once the website and some other stuff are done. There is no way this is a scam. I mean the dev constantly keeps updating and communicating with the community. Just be patient. Regarding OS please check here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=522102.msg9208721#msg9208721 It has a link to the first voting for OS. Guys, we're talking about Complete Turing Engine, before Etherium! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=770239.0If this isn't a once-in-a-livetime chance, then what is it? Maybe it is. But the simple fact that it is still closed-source will be a turn off for many "investors". Also, I don't understand the reasoning behind not going open-source. There is nothing to be afraid of ! Especially clones... The only way a clone overcome the first implementation of the code is if the community leaves one for the other. The only way it happens is if the community as something to gain from the transfuge. Noone said not going open-source. Community just decided not to rush it. It would be better to have some GUI embellishment, website (picture to the outer-world) and featured integrated before going OS imho. |
Behold the Tangle Mysteries! Dare to know It's truth.
- Excerpt from the IOTA Sacred Texts Vol. I
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Este Nuno
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amarha
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October 15, 2014, 02:31:51 PM |
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From what it seems qora will be the first worldwide to have AT integrated into its core! @rpietila: have you checked qora? you can check the following posts: Since this thread is about observing altcoins, I wonder why I haven't seen more references to qora.. Because its closed-source? or maybe "was" ? it's been a while since last time i've checked it out It will be OS once the website and some other stuff are done. There is no way this is a scam. I mean the dev constantly keeps updating and communicating with the community. Just be patient. Regarding OS please check here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=522102.msg9208721#msg9208721 It has a link to the first voting for OS. Guys, we're talking about Complete Turing Engine, before Etherium! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=770239.0If this isn't a once-in-a-livetime chance, then what is it? Maybe it is. But the simple fact that it is still closed-source will be a turn off for many "investors". Also, I don't understand the reasoning behind not going open-source. There is nothing to be afraid of ! Especially clones... The only way a clone overcome the first implementation of the code is if the community leaves one for the other. The only way it happens is if the community as something to gain from the transfuge. Noone said not going open-source. Community just decided not to rush it. It would be better to have some GUI embellishment, website (picture to the outer-world) and featured integrated before going OS imho. The vast majority of people would say that your community chose wrongly. And the price seems to reflect that decision. Sounds like 'Qora'(the dev) himself is doing a good job, but closed source is a pretty big no-no regardless of whether people fork or clone your code base. Just the idea that Qora has been out for months now as closed source puts a rain cloud over the project. That alone might forever turn a lot of people off who otherwise might have been interested. |
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rdnkjdi
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October 15, 2014, 02:35:46 PM |
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From what it seems qora will be the first worldwide to have AT integrated into its core! @rpietila: have you checked qora? you can check the following posts: Since this thread is about observing altcoins, I wonder why I haven't seen more references to qora.. Because its closed-source? or maybe "was" ? it's been a while since last time i've checked it out It will be OS once the website and some other stuff are done. There is no way this is a scam. I mean the dev constantly keeps updating and communicating with the community. Just be patient. Regarding OS please check here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=522102.msg9208721#msg9208721 It has a link to the first voting for OS. Guys, we're talking about Complete Turing Engine, before Etherium! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=770239.0If this isn't a once-in-a-livetime chance, then what is it? Maybe it is. But the simple fact that it is still closed-source will be a turn off for many "investors". Also, I don't understand the reasoning behind not going open-source. There is nothing to be afraid of ! Especially clones... The only way a clone overcome the first implementation of the code is if the community leaves one for the other. The only way it happens is if the community as something to gain from the transfuge. Noone said not going open-source. Community just decided not to rush it. It would be better to have some GUI embellishment, website (picture to the outer-world) and featured integrated before going OS imho. The vast majority of people would say that your community chose wrongly. And the price seems to reflect that decision. Sounds like 'Qora'(the dev) himself is doing a good job, but closed source is a pretty big no-no regardless of whether people fork or clone your code base. Just the idea that Qora has been out for months now as closed source puts a rain cloud over the project. That alone might forever turn a lot of people off who otherwise might have been interested. I think that what people miss is the value of buy in. As more people accept something as a currency or a platform the more valuable it becomes. Being first is often important - but being the first to have broad buy in is more important. Ethereum had broad buy in long before Qura. Also Ethereum's implementation of PoW at the expense of dilluting the original investors means that they will get more buy in from a broad base that isn't already invested post launch. And Ethereum has been touring complete / programmable for months. They simply haven't released the genesis block so it's impossible to make money / trade on the exchanges. Closed sourced helps nothing - but the get rich quick monopolies people try to put on innovations (NXT, Qora, XC, etc) mean that there is a heavy demand to fork and use the same ideas on a larger group of people who are less greedy and more interested in a broad base. Hence the tug of war between the ideas of bitcoin & NXT. |
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1echo
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scams hunter!
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October 22, 2014, 03:52:36 AM |
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so this is only about monero not other coins?!
sucks a bit
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smooth
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October 22, 2014, 04:43:36 AM |
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so this is only about monero not other coins?!
sucks a bit
Not really, other coins have been discussed here at significant length (XCN comes to mind for example, some discussion of DRK, and others). There is a focus on Monero because the thread starter and others here are supporters, but that need not exclude other coins. |
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rpietila (OP)
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October 22, 2014, 07:02:09 PM |
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A new alt-item, Crypto Kingdom gold (CKG) has received a flying start. In a recent auction, 10k gold was sold for 2,600 XMR. The quantity of gold in the game is limited to 1,000,000 gold until 2015-1-18, after which it continues to grow at a rate of $0.025 gold per hour of total online time spent in the game. If the market price of gold at that point is high, the amount of new gold will be lower, because the algorithm is tied on fiat price of gold. At today's price, the total gold in the game is valued at 260,000 XMR and it can only be purchased with XMR. The proceeds will be used for game development and I will keep the excess. Notable is that the valuation of the gold is about 5% of valuation of XMR so it will possibly soon boost XMR's value if it continues to appreciate. |
HIM TVA Dragon, AOK-GM, Emperor of the Earth, Creator of the World, King of Crypto Kingdom, Lord of Malla, AOD-GEN, SA-GEN5, Ministry of Plenty (Join NOW!), Professor of Economics and Theology, Ph.D, AM, Chairman, Treasurer, Founder, CEO, 3*MG-2, 82*OHK, NKP, WTF, FFF, etc(x3)
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wizzardTim
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Reality is stranger than fiction
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October 22, 2014, 08:35:54 PM |
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From what it seems qora will be the first worldwide to have AT integrated into its core! @rpietila: have you checked qora? you can check the following posts: Since this thread is about observing altcoins, I wonder why I haven't seen more references to qora.. Because its closed-source? or maybe "was" ? it's been a while since last time i've checked it out It will be OS once the website and some other stuff are done. There is no way this is a scam. I mean the dev constantly keeps updating and communicating with the community. Just be patient. Regarding OS please check here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=522102.msg9208721#msg9208721 It has a link to the first voting for OS. Guys, we're talking about Complete Turing Engine, before Etherium! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=770239.0If this isn't a once-in-a-livetime chance, then what is it? Maybe it is. But the simple fact that it is still closed-source will be a turn off for many "investors". Also, I don't understand the reasoning behind not going open-source. There is nothing to be afraid of ! Especially clones... The only way a clone overcome the first implementation of the code is if the community leaves one for the other. The only way it happens is if the community as something to gain from the transfuge. Noone said not going open-source. Community just decided not to rush it. It would be better to have some GUI embellishment, website (picture to the outer-world) and featured integrated before going OS imho. The vast majority of people would say that your community chose wrongly. And the price seems to reflect that decision. Sounds like 'Qora'(the dev) himself is doing a good job, but closed source is a pretty big no-no regardless of whether people fork or clone your code base. Just the idea that Qora has been out for months now as closed source puts a rain cloud over the project. That alone might forever turn a lot of people off who otherwise might have been interested. Qora is indeed New Source!! Confirmed by one of the AT devs --> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=522102.msg9294813#msg9294813 |
Behold the Tangle Mysteries! Dare to know It's truth.
- Excerpt from the IOTA Sacred Texts Vol. I
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Cryddit
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October 22, 2014, 08:43:22 PM |
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My newest thoughts about monetary economics, plus exhortation to find a new initial coin distribution paradigm. I believe that: - coin generation schedule should take into account the size of the economy; - it is not necessary to waste 100% of the value of the new coins as energy - that was necessary in gold era because trustless generation could not be otherwise maintained; - it might be possible to find a way to distribute this value trustlessly in a way that enhances the economy and adoption; - none of the current POS are in a right track (but I am glad to be proven wrong!  ). I think I have an idea for a better way to do it. Let's say an altcoin fixes its sights on some long-term rate of currency supply inflation, say 10%. They start bootstrapping by awarding 1 coin to the miner per block, for Proof-of-work, and never stop or reduce this amount. Additionally, whenever someone actually makes a transaction, the age of the inputs used is applied and 10% compounded annually is added to the block; 1% annual for the coin age, or 1 month's interest, whichever's more, as a tx fee for the miner, and the rest back to the payer in the transaction. This includes coinbase transactions: The miner can turn over whatever inputs he likes, and get 10% annual-rate interest for them paid along with his block. The "score" or basis of competition of blocks for proof-of-work purposes is the actual proof-of-work, plus some factor multiplied by the amount of interest being awarded in that block; So the miner who includes all transactions, and is also turning over a lot of his own old unspent txouts, needs to meet a lower threshold for proof-of-work to get a block, than a miner who leaves out transactions or who is using no stake to mine. Over time, the interest awards and tx fees dominate the 1 coin per block award, until eventually the 1 coin per block is negligible relative to the currency supply and the currency inflation converges on 10%. The amount of resources that it's worth spending per block for mining very slowly converges on being proportional to 1 months' interest (at 10% annual) on the txouts spent per block. Because everybody is motivated to turn over their currency frequently, and the blocks with larger interest payments are strongly preferred, a version of TAPS or Transactions-As-Proof-Of-Stake, becomes viable. Preferring chains on the same basis as preferring blocks (proof-of-work plus the same factor times interest awarded) should rapidly converge on blocks representing the greatest fraction of the money supply, with older txouts counting more. An absolute "lock point" beyond which no reorg could ever go, could occur as little as 24 hours in the past in a healthy economy where the money is moving fairly fast. Overall, the reward for mining would grow very slowly, with no "extra" to reward early miners. And the incentive to mine would likely never justify the kind of giant hashing farms we see with Bitcoin. Conversely, someone who does devote massive hashing power to it, especially in early days when the interest awards aren't very important yet in picking which chain to go with, could make attacks fairly easily, because the justification for investment for honest miners wouldn't be very high. |
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aminorex
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Sine secretum non libertas
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October 22, 2014, 10:31:25 PM |
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so this is only about monero not other coins?!
sucks a bit
It's mostly about monero, because monero is the only alt we've found that is a serious contender for the major liquidity provider niche available after bitcoin takes the transparent liquidity niche. Other niches besides dark and transparent liquidity are smaller and less clear. There is more interest in the clearer and larger niches. XCP, for example, is interesting on many grounds, but it really has no niche at all. There's nothing preventing total dilution of value for holders. That's okay, as it does not harm XCP's functionality, but it does make it less interesting as a long-term investment. I suspect most of the thread participants are primarily interested in long-term investments with order-of-magnitude upsides. Finding other alts which can creditably claim to be contenders for such a role is....challenging. I encourage you to try, and to report your findings. (It will be in your interest, I assume, to inform hoi polloi, at some point, when your accumulation bounds have been approached.) |
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a Poisson distribution and he eats at random times independent of one another, at a constant known rate.
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nakaone
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October 23, 2014, 12:08:21 AM |
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xcp fills a niche at the current implementation of the protocol, however this niche is small to very small compared to the dominant private decentralized ledger we are all looking for (and probably already found)
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bitcoinrocks
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October 27, 2014, 02:25:47 PM |
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Nice post. It's mostly about monero, because monero is the only alt we've found that is a serious contender for the major liquidity provider niche available after bitcoin takes the transparent liquidity niche.
Other niches besides dark and transparent liquidity are smaller and less clear. There is more interest in the clearer and larger niches. XCP, for example, is interesting on many grounds, but it really has no niche at all. There's nothing preventing total dilution of value for holders. That's okay, as it does not harm XCP's functionality, but it does make it less interesting as a long-term investment. Why is XCP subject to total dillution of value for holders? I suspect most of the thread participants are primarily interested in long-term investments with order-of-magnitude upsides. Finding other alts which can creditably claim to be contenders for such a role is....challenging. I encourage you to try, and to report your findings. (It will be in your interest, I assume, to inform hoi polloi, at some point, when your accumulation bounds have been approached.)
Are there any others you like? |
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