rpietila Altcoin Observer

[aminorex]

Is it theoretically possible to fork Bitcoin and implement ring signatures? Or is the current protocol something that fundamentally can't be adapted in that way?

Is it the type of thing that's 'possible', but so difficult that you would just be better off writing something from scratch al la CN?

It would not be terribly hard to convert the ledger from btc to a ledger for a new CN coin.  To retain the same keys/addresses would be a lot more work.  For each legacy interface for which you need to retain bug-compatible support you can add a multiplicative confound to the cost of conversion.

[1714602742]

1714602742

[dewdeded]

Is it theoretically possible to fork Bitcoin and implement ring signatures? Or is the current protocol something that fundamentally can't be adapted in that way?

As far as all I heard from core-devs, as I hang out on #bitcoin-dev on IRC the whole day and read Bitcoin dev mailing list: This change (bringing in ring signatures) is so big, it will never happen, like 0,00000% chance.

Its obvious possible as othe said (with an or more hard forks), but it not gonna happen.

[jwinterm]

Perhaps it is good to interpret my own post because it wasn't obvious:

As with metals, the #1 is really valuable, but the #2 is only about 1/50 as valuable. Others are not even counted.

So will it be with coins, therefore do not buy coins that aim to be #3.

I'll assume you're referring to gold and silver. Assuming that's the case, you're wrong. Platinum is more valuable than gold and palladium is about 75% as pricey as gold, and there are plenty of other metals that are more valuable per unit mass than silver (I'm not finding a list real quick, but I'd guess indium and most of the rare earth metals like gadolinium, europium, etc.).

[kelsey]

Perhaps it is good to interpret my own post because it wasn't obvious:

As with metals, the #1 is really valuable, but the #2 is only about 1/50 as valuable. Others are not even counted.

So will it be with coins, therefore do not buy coins that aim to be #3.

for me it was obvious, I got what you meant initially, however you're confusing price with value. for example for use in industry silver is of value more then gold.

similarly I wouldn't call 1st or 2nd or 10th ranking on market capitalisation v USD as any real indicator of any cryptocurrencies usefullness as a cryptocurrency.

[Lohoris]

Perhaps it is good to interpret my own post because it wasn't obvious:

As with metals, the #1 is really valuable, but the #2 is only about 1/50 as valuable. Others are not even counted.

So will it be with coins, therefore do not buy coins that aim to be #3.

I'll assume you're referring to gold and silver. Assuming that's the case, you're wrong. Platinum is more valuable than gold and palladium is about 75% as pricey as gold, and there are plenty of other metals that are more valuable per unit mass than silver (I'm not finding a list real quick, but I'd guess indium and most of the rare earth metals like gadolinium, europium, etc.).

Sure, but those metals aren't used as a pseudo-currency anywhere, unless I'm mistaken.
There are plenty of random things worth arbitrary amounts of money (diamonds, printer ink, human blood, etc.), but be them as valuable as you like, they still aren't a currency nor resemble one.

[coinits]

Perhaps it is good to interpret my own post because it wasn't obvious:

As with metals, the #1 is really valuable, but the #2 is only about 1/50 as valuable. Others are not even counted.

So will it be with coins, therefore do not buy coins that aim to be #3.

I'll assume you're referring to gold and silver. Assuming that's the case, you're wrong. Platinum is more valuable than gold and palladium is about 75% as pricey as gold, and there are plenty of other metals that are more valuable per unit mass than silver (I'm not finding a list real quick, but I'd guess indium and most of the rare earth metals like gadolinium, europium, etc.).

Sure, but those metals aren't used as a pseudo-currency anywhere, unless I'm mistaken.
There are plenty of random things worth arbitrary amounts of money (diamonds, printer ink, human blood, etc.), but be them as valuable as you like, they still aren't a currency nor resemble one.

Well silver and gold coins certainly are currency.

[jwinterm]

Sure, but those metals aren't used as a pseudo-currency anywhere, unless I'm mistaken.
There are plenty of random things worth arbitrary amounts of money (diamonds, printer ink, human blood, etc.), but be them as valuable as you like, they still aren't a currency nor resemble one.

Who is using gold and silver as a pseudo-currency? Afaik precious metals (Au, Ag, Pt, Pd, etc.) are a commodity, not accepted as cash payment anywhere that I know of.

[dga]

At the risk of leaving some sore toes in my wake, my academic self decided that I should continue documenting my experience in alt-coins.

Here's the Monero one:

http://da-data.blogspot.com/2014/08/minting-money-with-monero-and-cpu.html

[aminorex]

Who is using gold and silver as a pseudo-currency? Afaik precious metals (Au, Ag, Pt, Pd, etc.) are a commodity, not accepted as cash payment anywhere that I know of.

I think you have your pseudo-'s backwards.

I often use hard money to pay for goods and services.  Of course I prefer to use counterfeit money, where possible -- Gresham's law and all that.

[Este Nuno]

Does anyone know someone who sold a large amount of silver at the top of the silver bubble and put that money in to Bitcoin?

The timing then was almost perfect. Anyone who got out of silver during Bitcoin's initial 2011 $30 bubble and got in any time before or after and held would have made the trade of a lifetime.

Another one would be selling silver in 2012 when it was still in the $30's and buying Litecoin for pennies.

So what's the asset that should be sold now to buy your crypto of choice(obviously XMR for most people here)? Or is there no current comparable trade. I probably wouldn't bother selling silver at this point.

[rpietila]

Does anyone know someone who sold a large amount of silver at the top of the silver bubble and put that money in to Bitcoin?

cypherdoc

[smooth]

Perhaps it is good to interpret my own post because it wasn't obvious:

As with metals, the #1 is really valuable, but the #2 is only about 1/50 as valuable. Others are not even counted.

So will it be with coins, therefore do not buy coins that aim to be #3.

this is so true and what doomed Litecoin, I still think it has its merits but being silver of anything means being a lot less valuable besides being pegged to. XMR chances of surpassing BTC are bigger than of LTC, even though it still small.

No what doomed LTC is that it doesn't make a good silver. LTC aimed to be #2 which is fine according to rpietila's model, and so far it has done that, but it will likely fail to hold that spot in the future, and then at 3+ it is all over.

[drawingthesun]

Perhaps it is good to interpret my own post because it wasn't obvious:

As with metals, the #1 is really valuable, but the #2 is only about 1/50 as valuable. Others are not even counted.

So will it be with coins, therefore do not buy coins that aim to be #3.

this is so true and what doomed Litecoin, I still think it has its merits but being silver of anything means being a lot less valuable besides being pegged to. XMR chances of surpassing BTC are bigger than of LTC, even though it still small.

No what doomed LTC is that it doesn't make a good silver. LTC aimed to be #2 which is fine according to rpietila's model, and so far it has done that, but it will likely fail to hold that spot in the future, and then at 3+ it is all over.

Well Litecoin only holds its place because of brand.

If Litecoin falls from #2 it'll drop off the top 20 in days and never return.

I cannot see a situation where Litecoin is fighting for #3 for long, once #2 is taken all confidence in the reason people invested in Litecoin will be gone.

[Lohoris]

Well Litecoin only holds its place because of brand.

This.

Litecoin offers exactly zero features over Bitcoin, so its chances of succeding have always been zero.

It has been created for people (kids or kid-like) who whined about not being able to mine Bitcoin anymore with their hardware. Not exactly a sound base to build something upon.
It's getting what it long deserved.

[Este Nuno]

Well Litecoin only holds its place because of brand.

This.

Litecoin offers exactly zero features over Bitcoin, so its chances of succeding have always been zero.

It has been created for people (kids or kid-like) who whined about not being able to mine Bitcoin anymore with their hardware. Not exactly a sound base to build something upon.
It's getting what it long deserved.

Well, it depends on how you define success. Litecoin succeeded in doing exactly what it set out to do: become an alternative to Bitcoin.

And to be fair 2 minute confirmations are a feature over Bitcoin. Regardless of whether it would take the same amount of time to make the probability of a double spend negligible. For virtually all transactions one confirmation is sufficient on any currency with a mature network.

The idea that there is a network ready to go with a different hashing algorithm than Bitcoin is a strong enough motivator to attract investment. There will always be a 'Litecoin' to go along with Bitcoin. Even if it's only 2-5% of Bitcoin's market cap. That spot is not a bad place to be, and I would never say that any currency with that amount of market cap wasn't a successful one.

The big question now is what currency will take that number two spot? Litecoin certainly won't hold it with the attitude of its community.

[cAPSLOCK]

Not sure exactly whats going on with boolberry but I am happily liquidating my small hedge there today,

[hornyPo]

At the risk of leaving some sore toes in my wake, my academic self decided that I should continue documenting my experience in alt-coins.

Here's the Monero one:

http://da-data.blogspot.com/2014/08/minting-money-with-monero-and-cpu.html

Wow very interesting story.
Can we expect more altcoin mining story´s from you? (like i guess you also do BBR AWS mining and in the beginning it was quite profitable)

[nsimmons]

Does anyone know someone who sold a large amount of silver at the top of the silver bubble and put that money in to Bitcoin?

I got out of silver about 10 days before the crash and made a killing, but I didn't know about bitcoin and put it into a classic mustang instead...At least its appreciated.

[othe]

At the risk of leaving some sore toes in my wake, my academic self decided that I should continue documenting my experience in alt-coins.

Here's the Monero one:

http://da-data.blogspot.com/2014/08/minting-money-with-monero-and-cpu.html

Wow very interesting story.
Can we expect more altcoin mining story´s from you? (like i guess you also do BBR AWS mining and in the beginning it was quite profitable)

Yes nice article dga, any chance you can update your blogpost about cuckoo to its current state?

[dga]

At the risk of leaving some sore toes in my wake, my academic self decided that I should continue documenting my experience in alt-coins.

Here's the Monero one:

http://da-data.blogspot.com/2014/08/minting-money-with-monero-and-cpu.html

Wow very interesting story.
Can we expect more altcoin mining story´s from you? (like i guess you also do BBR AWS mining and in the beginning it was quite profitable)

I might write about BBR, but it wasn't nearly as fun a story (or profitable) as XMR.  I obviously had an optimized miner for it, but decided to take a different strategy with BBR of mining a lot, holding it, and then contributing  code back to the coin to try to improve its value, so I spent a lot of time taking those optimizations and putting them into the open source simpleminer.  In contrast, with XMR, I just mined and sold instantly.

It wasn't as profitable as keeping the xmr miner completely private, but it's hard to compare given the market cap difference.

What I've found is that overall, "totally private miner"  (XMR) >> "optimize, mine, release" (BBR) > "convince the developers to pay to open source" (PTS) > "open source miner with optional dev fee" (RIC) > "give code away and ask for donations" (scrypt).

Not economically surprising, but some good lessons in there for future coin developers who want good miners -- get someone to do it ahead of time.