[ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA

[DaveyJones]

JESUS 13 BTC to get back to 270k...

we're still in mid flight guys, might be a bumpy ride but it's not going to take much to reach the next all-time high, we've been cracking them steadily for the past 3 weeks... no sight of slowing down!

and am i the only one who actually understood the flow chart? i don't really know much about the inner workings of crypto, but this is the first time i think i've actually understood what's going on with Cloak PoSA, and that's cool!

no i did too.... people are just moaning about some arrows and blocks that could have been moved different... context is obvious for anyone who can read some chart.

[smokim87]

A Q&A is currently opened in the IRC. Please Join the IRC if you have questions regarding PoSA and the Diagram.

[TheDagger]

We're going to make another diagram to explain this better with visuals.  The key is things are being sent to temporary addresses.  I'll come up with something better soon.

Think of it like this.

You -> PosA Node #1 -> Receiver (temp address) -> PoSA Node #2 -> Actual Receiver Address

PoSa Node #1 and #2 knows its safe to send to the Receiver temp address because of block escrow, a new transaction in the blockchain that is verified by all peers just like how normal transactions are.

It's ANON because PoSA Node #2 uses different 'cloak' then what he received to send money to you breaking the trace.

You could think of it like this.

Bob has $50, wants to send $50 to alice.  All his dollars are tainted with the letter B.  If you send the money to alice you can see the B's and you know it's from Bob.

If the money from PoSA Node#2 came from someone else (different traces) and was sent to the receiver it's Anon.  Essentially Alice see's money with different letters on it, say C or something.

This is what is happening in the final steps, this does require that the PoSA Nodes actually have the money to send so balance checks would be in place.

Right, if Alice gets her coins from say, Charlie, and the coins have C's on them, this hides the fact that these originated from Bob.  But how do you prevent people from following the chain and figuring out who sent coins to Charlie just before he sent some coins to Alice, and finding Bob this way?

PoSA anon breaks the chain that you would expect to be able to follow. You just arrive at a dead end meaning it can't be followed.

[HoldTheLine]

WTF so the only thing I can see is Alty sends the coin to POSA #1 node, the POSA#1 node sends the coin to Joe and then Joe finds a Posa #2 node...then the Posa #2 sends the coin BACK to Joe???

what the hell is the point of that and how is it anonymous?

We're going to make another diagram to explain this better with visuals.  The key is things are being sent to temporary addresses.  I'll come up with something better soon.

Think of it like this.

You -> PosA Node #1 -> Receiver (temp address) -> PoSA Node #2 -> Actual Receiver Address

PoSa Node #1 and #2 knows its safe to send to the Receiver temp address because of block escrow, a new transaction in the blockchain that is verified by all peers just like how normal transactions are.

It's ANON because PoSA Node #2 uses different 'cloak' then what he received to send money to you breaking the trace.

You could think of it like this.

Bob has $50, wants to send $50 to alice.  All his dollars are tainted with the letter B.  If you send the money to alice you can see the B's and you know it's from Bob.

If the money from PoSA Node#2 came from someone else (different traces) and was sent to the receiver it's Anon.  Essentially Alice see's money with different letters on it, say C or something.

This is what is happening in the final steps, this does require that the PoSA Nodes actually have the money to send so balance checks would be in place.

FUD[/b]

Are you seriously going to say all this after you have just been posting in the DRK forum trying to pump the price past 0.01? Christ man!

Ah I am trying to understand it....if the dev's release a diagram, I have the right to ask questions. Especially if its unprofessional and the dev's come back with "ill think of something better next time"

If you cant understand it yourself, how the fuck is everyone else supposed to? In my opinion that diagram will do more harm than good.

Yes I bought cloak, but now its sold...

Bingo. You sold. So move along.

[drizzle2405]

Seriously, no one gives Cloak credit for how far they have come in 2 months.

They've done more in 2 months than any other COIN out there...  Period!

[HoldTheLine]

[Ltsknnr]

WTF so the only thing I can see is Alty sends the coin to POSA #1 node, the POSA#1 node sends the coin to Joe and then Joe finds a Posa #2 node...then the Posa #2 sends the coin BACK to Joe???

what the hell is the point of that and how is it anonymous?

We're going to make another diagram to explain this better with visuals.  The key is things are being sent to temporary addresses.  I'll come up with something better soon.

Think of it like this.

You -> PosA Node #1 -> Receiver (temp address) -> PoSA Node #2 -> Actual Receiver Address

PoSa Node #1 and #2 knows its safe to send to the Receiver temp address because of block escrow, a new transaction in the blockchain that is verified by all peers just like how normal transactions are.

It's ANON because PoSA Node #2 uses different 'cloak' then what he received to send money to you breaking the trace.

You could think of it like this.

Bob has $50, wants to send $50 to alice.  All his dollars are tainted with the letter B.  If you send the money to alice you can see the B's and you know it's from Bob.

If the money from PoSA Node#2 came from someone else (different traces) and was sent to the receiver it's Anon.  Essentially Alice see's money with different letters on it, say C or something.

This is what is happening in the final steps, this does require that the PoSA Nodes actually have the money to send so balance checks would be in place.

That's golden! Thanks for the PoSA for dummies breakdown.

[szarbot]

http://i57.tinypic.com/1252686.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Uj3zitETs4

[xephyr]

This was just posted on another forum original at http://pastebin.com/TvJkKiCJ

[smokim87]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Uj3zitETs4

Cool, cloakpal.com. Nothing on it yet, guessing its going to be filled pretty soon. Mobile wallet should be cool to use.

[Xamda]

Trying to answer nsimmons is like this:

Nuclear fusion happens in the sun everyday.  As of this moment in time we can't replicate nuclear fusion.  He wants you to prove that it happens.  You could throw him 1,000 diagrams explaining how it happens and show what you call evidence, but because you can't replicate it, it really doesn't happen.

Pointless convo...  Onto the next.

Nice try, there's these things call neutrons, you know, the by product of hydrogen fusion..

Yes, but are they really, really proof of hydrogen fusion? How do you know? Have you ever been able to replicate that process?

However, with POSA, the proof is the delivery of the coins without the possibility to trace where they came from...

[Coinster2014]

This was just posted on another forum original at http://pastebin.com/TvJkKiCJ

Dude, that's fake.

[smokim87]

This was just posted on another forum original at http://pastebin.com/TvJkKiCJ

He was talking about Cloaksend 1.0, its not used and old. Atcsecure did not confirm the chat log too. He has received a working wallet with PoSA for testing. Check last 15-30 pages about it.

[nsimmons]

Can you pull a week without sleep, care for a family, develop unique systems in crypto.... and produce a perfect chart just to silence idiots like you who simply waste the air we breathe? I say the effort was bloody good and can be touched up later

Think about this, do you lose a skill when tired or stressed out. Consider, for example, a welder. His work may be slower, and might not be as precise, but it would not look as if he had never welded in his life.

Even a stressed out, overtired, person experienced in process design would not suddenly forget such basics as diamonds for decisions.

Do you forget how to drive when you are tired?

[pookielax31]

This was just posted on another forum original at http://pastebin.com/TvJkKiCJ

Dude, that's fake.

FIRST off who cares thats about CLOAKSEND1.0  http://pastebin.com/TvJkKiCJ

posted in IRC long time ago... END OF FUD

[TheDagger]

This was just posted on another forum original at http://pastebin.com/TvJkKiCJ

Dude, that's fake.

The only thing they would be able to see is Cloaksend 1.0 on public github.

Rest assured it has nothing to do with PoSA.

[nsimmons]

I give you a hint.... its Joe

No what is shows is that who ever drew it has never taken a single course in algorithm design, or even process management. To the university grads here, did you ever see something like this in CompSci 101?

thats like moaning against somebody about his bad english.... even if you did understand everything. Yep you are right this can be done better.... but point is i do understand what the chart wants to tell so its not a bad chart.

You make a great point, "Yep you are right this can be done better....", but we are lead to believe

PoSA is entirely trustless and solves the Byzantine Generals problem.

From people who cant design a proper flow chart?

Sorry I really thought you were serious about discussing cloak. You look at the chart and have no idea whats going on, have you tried analyzing it at least? Ask questions to things you didn't understand? No you didn't, your one of the guys I like to call a smart troll. Trolling without the use of scam, shit...etc

Don't worry that diagram is being redrawn in a coloring book with crayons for you to understand.

If you read my earlier post, I said I did understand the chart. You again with the insults, we were doing so well.

Think about how much sense this makes. We are lead to believe there is a revolutionary solution from people who show they haven't grasped fundamentals.

[drizzle2405]

Trying to answer nsimmons is like this:

Nuclear fusion happens in the sun everyday.  As of this moment in time we can't replicate nuclear fusion.  He wants you to prove that it happens.  You could throw him 1,000 diagrams explaining how it happens and show what you call evidence, but because you can't replicate it, it really doesn't happen.

Pointless convo...  Onto the next.

Nice try, there's these things call neutrons, you know, the by product of hydrogen fusion..

Yes, but are they really, really proof of hydrogen fusion? How do you know? Have you ever been able to replicate that process?

However, with POSA, the proof is the delivery of the coins without the possibility to trace where they came from...

Xamda it's pointless, he's basically looking for replication of source code.  It's not happening anytime soon, as far as source code release.  Like I said, pointless convo.

[heartastack]

Can you pull a week without sleep, care for a family, develop unique systems in crypto.... and produce a perfect chart just to silence idiots like you who simply waste the air we breathe? I say the effort was bloody good and can be touched up later

Think about this, do you lose a skill when tired or stressed out. Consider, for example, a welder. His work may be slower, and might not be as precise, but it would not look as if he had never welded in his life.

Even a stressed out, overtired, person experienced in process design would not suddenly forget such basics as diamonds for decisions.

Do you forget how to drive when you are tired?

No but I did fall asleep at the wheel and nearly kill myself

[Coolstoryteller]

PoSA is entirely trustless and solves the Byzantine Generals problem.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Would that diagram suffice as evidence? Appreciate your input.

Thanks

No. Here is an analogy.

Here is a description of a warp drive, using the known laws relativity. This does not constitute evidence of faster than light travel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive#Mathematics_of_the_Alcubierre_drive

What would you consider valid evidence then?

Well that was my original question, which I do not have an answer for.

Full open source audit by industry experts would be pretty fool-proof for me, but by that time most of the price rise would have happened in anticipation.

Auditors of that caliber are booked up 3-4 months in advance and also costs upwards of 50k. It's easy for you to come in here and criticize Cloak's efforts. Yet, you don't provide your own answer. Hmm I guess a public beta with a diagram mapping out the processes just isn't enough for you. I haven't seen 1 altcoin invest the money into a high level independent audit - open source or not. We've reached out to top level cryptographers outside of this forum to complete a full audit on Cloak/PoSA. This is a potential billion dollar product, so I have no problems supporting an independent validation. You have all the right to question the validity of the claims; Although, your lack of faith will end up costing you more in the long run.

Also, I fail to see how your warp drive analogy is relevant. PoSA is out in the wild, with a public beta producing evidence on the blockchain. Last time I checked the progress of warp drives it was still in the very early stages. I haven't seen the guys over at Skunkworks invite the public over for viewing.

The main problem with trolls and skeptics is no matter how much information you provide, they will still come back with another argument. By the time they figure it out the ship has already set sail.