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[cmoltisanti]

Wow twitchy and the other trolls have to be some of the biggest dumbest trolls on the internet. Xaio provides a service and provides it very well. He can't do anything about what you are complaining about. He has also shown himself to be of high character with regsrd to the players over and over. I guarantee I've paid more rake to betcoin than anyone here and I don't feel slighted at all. They offer the best rb and xaio is a credit to the players. Continuing to nag him about this is pointless and just makes this thread unbearable.

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[TwitchySeal]

Do you think a gas station owner selling lottery tickets should be held accountable for the actions of the lottery?

That's all he is doing. I don't think you understand how affiliates work. He's not a site representative.

If the lottery is run unethically, and the owner is aware of this, then he should either not sell tickets to that lottery or inform his customers the reality of the situation.  If he chooses to ignore or defend the unethical actions of the lottery to protect his personal income, he should be held accountable for doing so.  Ethics 101 really.

Wow twitchy and the other trolls have to be some of the biggest dumbest trolls on the internet.

I suppose we each have different definition of "troll"  

I think you are behaving like one.

He can't do anything about what you are complaining about.

Yes he can.

You could too, if you wanted.

I think you should.

I guarantee I've paid more rake to betcoin than anyone here and I don't feel slighted at all. They offer the best rb and xaio is a credit to the players. Continuing to nag him about this is pointless and just makes this thread unbearable.

By guarantee do you mean you will prove it?

How much have you paid?  

What does "here" mean?

Who are you?

Most high volume regs I've spoken to agree with most of my opinions.

However because Betcoin can be a profitable option for grinders of certain stakes, they don't want to speak up and risk being treated the way I have.  I don't blame them.

[DarkDays]

Wow twitchy and the other trolls have to be some of the biggest dumbest trolls on the internet. Xaio provides a service and provides it very well. He can't do anything about what you are complaining about. He has also shown himself to be of high character with regsrd to the players over and over. I guarantee I've paid more rake to betcoin than anyone here and I don't feel slighted at all. They offer the best rb and xaio is a credit to the players. Continuing to nag him about this is pointless and just makes this thread unbearable.

So when you were raked 6mb on a pot that only should have had 2mb taken out of it you didn't feel slighted?  Then you are a sucker and your opinion is worthless.

[TwitchySeal]

Wow twitchy and the other trolls have to be some of the biggest dumbest trolls on the internet. Xaio provides a service and provides it very well. He can't do anything about what you are complaining about. He has also shown himself to be of high character with regsrd to the players over and over. I guarantee I've paid more rake to betcoin than anyone here and I don't feel slighted at all. They offer the best rb and xaio is a credit to the players. Continuing to nag him about this is pointless and just makes this thread unbearable.

So when you were raked 6mb on a pot that only should have had 2mb taken out of it you didn't feel slighted?  Then you are a sucker and your opinion is worthless.

Or he doesn't track his play.

Or he does track his play but doesn't pay attention to the rake.

Or he's just making shit up like ftwbtc.

[cryptosmoker]

Do you think a gas station owner selling lottery tickets should be held accountable for the actions of the lottery?

That's all he is doing. I don't think you understand how affiliates work. He's not a site representative.

Yes of course the owner of any business should be held accountable for what they sell!

[TwitchySeal]

Twitchy, I'm not ignoring you.  It's just that I gave a more than sufficient response and explanation to the issues you've brought up but you continue to blow things out of proportion to the point where it seems your intent has now become malicious and ego-driven.  

Betcoin made a mistake where no one was hurt, and they were afraid to admit it at first, but on their behalf I will admit they did make a mistake, but it has been corrected/rectified long ago.  What more do you want?  That the company crumbles to ashes and the tens of thousands of players that rely on the site are left hanging?

It seems like you're ignoring me Xiaoxiao.

[wilfra]

Do you think a gas station owner selling lottery tickets should be held accountable for the actions of the lottery?

That's all he is doing. I don't think you understand how affiliates work. He's not a site representative.

Yes of course the owner of any business should be held accountable for what they sell!

Ok, so go to Amazon.com, Google and Facebook and complain to them about all the shady companies selling things on their platform. You won't, though. You'll just harass this affiliate. He's far from the only one promoting Betcoin. But you don't care, because he's right here and has no choice but to listen to your complaints. You want to extract a pound of flesh from someone, anyone.

[TwitchySeal]

• You guys need to lay off, he is just an affiliate.
• It's not his fault and there is nothing he can do about it even if he wanted to.
• He can't do anything about what you are complaining about.
• He's far from the only one promoting Betcoin.
• I don't think you understand how affiliates work. He's not a site representative.[/i]

I dont think you guys underestand Betcoins Business model. I think it's safe to assume that Xiao receives a MAJORITY of revenue generated by those he can convince to sign up through him.

It's his decision how he chooses to convince players to sign up.  This is why regulated markets often do not allow affiliate models, and those that do regulate the affiliates as well as the players and brands/networks.

Just because he was able to work out a deal with Betcoin where he receives more poker revenue than any other affiliate, doesn't mean he is more trustworthy.  In fact, he's proven over the last few pages of this thread that he should not be trusted by making decisions that would violate any Business' code of ethics.

Failure to be completely transparent to the players who sign up under you, and also the bran/network is unethical.

Making deceptive comments like:

The rake did go higher briefly but was corrected.

the current rake structure is still the industry's finest and the rewards are unbeatable!

Is unethical (and really fucked up imo)

Dismissing the evidence I have presented simply by saying "I disagree with you" is unacceptable and (you guessed it!) UNETHICAL.

Dodging or denying issues involving Betcoin keeping funds they shouldn't or outright ignoring them, unethical.

Ok, so go to Amazon.com, Google and Facebook and complain to them about all the shady companies selling things on their platform. You won't, though. You'll just harass this affiliate. He's far from the only one promoting Betcoin. But you don't care, because he's right here and has no choice but to listen to your complaints. You want to extract a pound of flesh from someone, anyone.

Not sure what makes you so confident about what Im willing to do, care about or want?  What do you think posting on Amazon or Facebook would accomplish?  Online poker is a small niche, online poker for Bitcoins is a fraction of that I don't know where to post that it wouldn't fall on mostly users who had no interest in Bitcoins or Online poker.  If you know of any facebook groups or places within amazon that you'd suggest let me know please.

If you think I'm glad Xiao is behaving like this, I'm not.  He's enabling Betcoin to behave the way they do.  

There's far more to this story than just the over rake, and trust me - I haven't just posted in this thread.

I've gone to pokerfraudalert.com and started THIS THREAD

Which resulted in the owner, Todd Wittelles, doing a segment on the weekly Poker Fraud Alert Podcast.  You can listen to it HERE (it gets around 1,000 downloads a week)

12/2/15 - Colluding, customer service coverups alleged at bitcoin poker room "Betcoin".

Here are some reactions from the pokerfraudalert.com forum (in case you dont want to click the link yourself)

The owner of ProfessionalRakeback.com, an affiliate site:






Todd Witelles, the owner of PokerFraudAlert.com:



To show his credibility, here's a snip from his wiki:

Witteles was a victim of the Absolute Poker/Ultimatebet "Superuser" cheating scandal. He and several other online players took part in uncovering and proving the cheating. This attracted enough media attention to where it became the subject of a story on the TV news program "60 Minutes", where Witteles was featured. The episode aired on November 30, 2008.[6] Witteles appeared on the front page of The Washington Post about the same matter.[7] On December 16, 2009, he appeared on CNBC to discuss the cheating. In the CNBC special, Witteles claimed that legalization and regulation of online poker was necessary in order to prevent future cheating scandals. He also appeared on a Blu-ray Extra attached to the movie Runner Runner, entitled House Of Cards: The Inside Story of Online Poker.[8]

In March 2008, Witteles was selected among eight other top online poker players to participate in ESPN's "Online Poker Think Tank."[9] In 2009, he was a guest broadcaster on ESPN360 for the final table of a World Series of Poker event.

Dooglus (Highest Default Trust Level on this site - not sure exactly how that works but seems worth mentioning)    explaining what I'm trying to do better than my own explanation:






I have alo gone to twoplustwo (the poker version of bitcointalk) you can read check out that thread HERE

Some responses from random poker players:

Anyone who claims to be DDOSing another player, whether true or not, should be perma-banned from ever playing online poker again. And anyone who works for a poker site that thinks that apologizing is enough for threatening a DDOS attack, should be perma-banned from ever working on an online poker site again.

Ive dealt with andrew before and was pretty rude really quickly when I didn't figure out or he wasn't understanding the problem I was having. Started saying I wasn't paying attention to what he was saying and therefore couldn't help me if wasn't willing to listen.

the collusion thing was amazing. they simply confiscated money, unbanned cheaters after a week or two ( so they could play in the "ANTI-Collusion-Freeroll lol) , didnt refund any1 and kept the funds. just ignored the according thread and the players, that were asking for updates

Code:

I stopped playing on there when one if their support guys treated me like garbage. It was laughable how unprofessional they were.

So they let blatant colluders/cheaters carry on playing and even returned some money to them? I hope this site dies a slow painful death and the owners lose lots of money... anyone who plays there is an idiot.

Is there anywhere decent to play bitcoin poker?

[DarkDays]

Do you think a gas station owner selling lottery tickets should be held accountable for the actions of the lottery?

That's all he is doing. I don't think you understand how affiliates work. He's not a site representative.

Yes of course the owner of any business should be held accountable for what they sell!

Ok, so go to Amazon.com, Google and Facebook and complain to them about all the shady companies selling things on their platform. You won't, though. You'll just harass this affiliate. He's far from the only one promoting Betcoin. But you don't care, because he's right here and has no choice but to listen to your complaints. You want to extract a pound of flesh from someone, anyone.

How many other people are "promoting Betcoin" who have a special relationship with Betcoin where they get >50% of their refereed player's rakeback?  And thus have the ear of Betcoin and can have a dialogue with them to support/protect the players who have gotten money robbed from them?  I'll gladly voice my concerns to them as well, perhaps one of them will have the ethics to protect the players and not just ignore them.

[NooBtc]

I just signed up at Betcoin and then saw this thread.  After reading through it and the attacks to the poster.  Are you an employee of Betcoin?  How do I get reassigned to you? 

[cmoltisanti]

Twitchy and the minions need to start their own thread rather than continuing to tard up this one.   No he does not work for Betcoin to answer your question.

[cmoltisanti]

Also dooglus pulled one of the biggest scams in btc history with the justdice fiasco.  So LOL at being a "top trusted member"

[cmoltisanti]

Also I just read that 2+2 thread and you get repeatedly called a nutjob, which is an accurate representation of what your are doing here, in that thread and elsewhere.

[TwitchySeal]

Also dooglus pulled one of the biggest scams in btc history with the justdice fiasco.  So LOL at being a "top trusted member"

I was stating a fact, not an opinion.

Current depth 1 default trust

Depth 1
theymos (1)
HostFat (1)
dooglus (1)
Maged (1)
dserrano5 (1)
OgNasty (1)
Tomatocage (1)
SaltySpitoon (1)
DeaDTerra (1)
BadBear (1)
philipma1957 (1)
escrow.ms (1)
OldScammerTag (1)


Are there any other specific issues you don't understand or disagree with? 

[cmoltisanti]

Yes, why you don't start your own thread instead of filling this thread with garbage.  You clearly have mental problems as many people have stated.  Start your own thread and say whatever you want.

[TwitchySeal]

Yes, why you don't start your own thread instead of filling this thread with garbage.  You clearly have mental problems as many people have stated.  Start your own thread and say whatever you want.

I've started a thread on twoplustwo, pokerfraudalert, and also here.

 DO NOT POST SESC LINKS

[ftwbtc1]

I just signed up at Betcoin and then saw this thread.  After reading through it and the attacks to the poster.  Are you an employee of Betcoin?  How do I get reassigned to you? 

I don't believe you can change your affiliate once you have one or get reassigned.  There is a lot of trolling going on in here so who knows when Xiaoxiao will be back. 

[Xiaoxiao]

I just signed up at Betcoin and then saw this thread.  After reading through it and the attacks to the poster.  Are you an employee of Betcoin?  How do I get reassigned to you?  

I don't believe one can get reassigned to another affiliate.  However, since you've signed up recently, you may try and speak to an administrator (via live chat) during normal working hours, and they may be able to help you.  

By the way, please do not attempt to create a new account, because the system will freeze both accounts (this is a testament to Betcoin's efforts to rid the site of multi-accounting).

Also for everyone else; please note that I can't send rakeback to any account that is banned or frozen.  Please get it resolved first and notify me and then I can initiate the transfer again.

[NooBtc]

I just signed up at Betcoin and then saw this thread.  After reading through it and the attacks to the poster.  Are you an employee of Betcoin?  How do I get reassigned to you?  

I don't believe one can get reassigned to another affiliate.  However, since you've signed up recently, you may try and speak to an administrator (via live chat) during normal working hours, and they may be able to help you.  

By the way, please do not attempt to create a new account, because the system will freeze both accounts (this is a testament to Betcoin's efforts to rid the site of multi-accounting).

Also for everyone else; please note that I can't send rakeback to any account that is banned or frozen.  Please get it resolved first and notify me and then I can initiate the transfer again.

Thank you for the update.  I won't make any new accounts. 

[TwitchySeal]

Although you've ignored so many of my questions/comments, I'll respond to each of yours.  I'd really appreciate you did the same.  (If i missed anything it wasn't intentional, just let me know)

I'm not even an employee or staff member and you just continue to attack me.  

Whether or not you are employed by betcoin is irrelevant.  When you help Betcoin generate revenue, you're partners.  

I'm sure you know this, but Betcoins business model relys heavily on affiliate marketing to drive new traffic.  They also reward affiliates very well.  (you seem to receive more rewards than even the top teir offers)

Your income is directly affected by the revenue your players generate.

The more your signups generate, the more you make, thats because you and Betcoin have a partnership.  Period.

THe fact that youre seriously trying to claim "its not my fault Betcoin is doing unethical things even though  I have income that is coming directly from them and I'm trying to convince as many people as possible to sign up and deposit on their site" is really pathetic.

In any affiliate model, there is no excuse for choosing to be anything but 100% transparent with their signups, even if it's at the cost of their own personal income.  

This conflict of interest is the very reason many regulatory bodies either ban the affiliate model all together or regulate the affiliates.  If they didn't do this, affiliates would be able to gain from unethical behavior.  For example: if an online poker site is stealing from its players, an affiliate could choose to be unethical and state that they are not stealing, or they are stealing only a couple pennies.  This would be very unethical, but it would result in the affilites  short term profit.

I realize Betcoin isn't regulated.  I realize there are tons of scummy affiliates.  Thats no excuse for you to be anything but honest.  

Also if you dislike/distrust me, why did you sign up under me (I found out about this when Betcoin Jessica made a post of your accounts)?  I just provide a good service to poker players.

It's obvious this is more of a thinly veiled attempt at discrediting me than a question.  

I did not sign up under you.  I assume you are refering to me being nickles987 or btcjbtc, I am not.  I didn't know about your thread until a week or so after I had signed up under grindabit.  I wish I had though, because you are able to return more rakeback than any other affiliate even gets paid, I would have made several bitcoins more in rakeback than I had from Chazlys lame rakerace.  

Betcoin Jessica has accused me of many things that are not true, mostly something to do with me playing on their site every day - "she" is lying.  I'm not sure if they are dumb enough to think that accusing me of this would somehow disprove all the evidence I've presented, or if they were simply behaving like children.  If they could, they would be trying to prove that what I said was untrue, not that I'm a cheater.  I could be one of the biggest cheaters of all time, and it still wouldn't change the facts about betcoin.

If I were to sign up a new account to play poker on, I would be a fool not to use your link.  That doesn't give you the right to tell everyone else lies.

I also don't know what deceptive thing I said about the BBJ.

I suggest going through all your posts to make a list of all the deceptive things you've said.  Then you can post them all, along with the truth and players who may not know they were deceived will no longer believe something that isn't true.

But it's great you signed up under me, you'll be getting one of the highest rewards in the industry obviously, and I'll benefit from that just a little bit as well.

This is the type of childish passive aggressive comment that Betcoin makes which really doesn't accomplish anything.  I'd really appreciate it if you spent more time responding the the serious issues I've brought up.




Please, return the courtesy of responding.

I'd prefer you respond to my questions from this post : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=683727.msg13749228#msg13749228

But if you want to make things simpilar, Ill ask just one question at a time.

Between 10/31/15 and 12/10/15 What percentage of hands were won by a player that was currently receiving 100% rakeback on Betcoin at both non Heads Up tables and at only Heads Up tables.  Please explain how confident you are in this number and why.  

(So two numbers, one for Headsup and one for the rest)