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Author Topic: bustabit.com -- The Social Gambling Game  (Read 292448 times)
Cherylstar86
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March 05, 2017, 08:51:18 PM
 #3081

You mentioned that investors profits will be automatically divested each day, would you have to pay the dilution fee each time you reinvest those profits?

Yup  Grin But all in all it won't make much difference (you pay dilution fees when you re-invest, but collect them when other people re-invest..)

Yeah thats the nature of the game, so you better follow and participate with the practices of the required dilution fees and if you don't agree with it? Better stop playing with their games. I know profits is always there all you have to do is be patient all the time and don't over react.

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RGR991
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March 05, 2017, 10:37:20 PM
 #3082

So in the new version if the 0 is removed(no more bonus) and you get 1 valor per 100 bits wagered.

What stops someone from max betting at 1.00x(no chance of losing) to get risk free valor.
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March 05, 2017, 10:50:25 PM
 #3083

So in the new version if the 0 is removed(no more bonus) and you get 1 valor per 100 bits wagered.

What stops someone from max betting at 1.00x(no chance of losing) to get risk free valor.

Minimum multiplier in the dev build is a 1.01x multiplier, so people can't do that any more.


Henkkaa
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March 06, 2017, 10:36:46 AM
 #3084

Why are there dilution fees? I kinda want to invest in a trusted casino, but losing 10% of mu investment right away is bad, especially given that the average edge is only 0,38%. Would take ages to earn back that 10% and then some.

I would also like to know, what valors are? Are they some sort of upgrade to the 1% bonus rewarding system?
Is there a way to overcome house edge and make profit with a betting script, since there is that bonus system? What would be the minimum bet to get profit from the bonus?
libertynow
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March 06, 2017, 09:10:25 PM
 #3085

I'm now selling the code to "EDGE" bot. I closed the bot last week for a variety of reasons not related to it's success. You can the see forum history here: https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=13275.msg229488#msg229488 and the profit history here: https://www.bustabit.com/user/EDGE_NXTAE PM me with an offer/questions if you're interested

Liquid Tech, Asset #17750387231635486778, http://www.liquidtech.info
RHavar
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March 06, 2017, 09:13:16 PM
 #3086

Wow! thanksfinland turned 25 bits into 10 BTC with an amazing 400,000.00x cashout. Totally shattering the previous record from cowbay of a 50,001x cashout.
Dogedigital
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March 06, 2017, 09:25:27 PM
 #3087

Wow! thanksfinland turned 25 bits into 10 BTC with an amazing 400,000.00x cashout. Totally shattering the previous record from cowbay of a 50,001x cashout.



Dayummmmm.
Henkkaa
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March 06, 2017, 09:28:30 PM
 #3088

I'm now selling the code to "EDGE" bot. I closed the bot last week for a variety of reasons not related to it's success. You can the see forum history here: https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=13275.msg229488#msg229488 and the profit history here: https://www.bustabit.com/user/EDGE_NXTAE PM me with an offer/questions if you're interested
What kind of return does this actually provide? The amount it has won so far must be unsustainable over the long run. If it would make 2,000,000 bits in EV over 56 games, you wouldn't be selling it.

So what does the bot do? I assume it uses a strategy to overcome to house edge with the 1% bonus system. If I left it running 24/7, how much returns could I expect from a 0.1btc capital!
libertynow
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March 06, 2017, 11:57:37 PM
 #3089


My current plans  are to remove bonuses completely from the main game (and put that in a separate, much more pvp game with ~10% bonuses). I really hate to remove the bonuses and variable-house edge, but with the vast majority of bustabit players playing "bonus oblivious" I can't help but feel I'm doing them a disservice.


This is really disappointing.  The bonuses is what makes the game actually possible to beat long term.  Seems like a money grab decision.  It's really too bad because it's currently a unique game, now it'll just be another casino website.  whoopee, as if that's really needed....

How would the pvp game work? What would be the incentive for anyone to play at all?

Liquid Tech, Asset #17750387231635486778, http://www.liquidtech.info
statdude
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March 07, 2017, 12:28:26 AM
 #3090

Whoa, so the whole bonus hunting element is leaving the main game?

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RHavar
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March 07, 2017, 02:00:33 AM
 #3091

This is really disappointing.  The bonuses is what makes the game actually possible to beat long term.  Seems like a money grab decision.  It's really too bad because it's currently a unique game, now it'll just be another casino website.  whoopee, as if that's really needed....
Not really, the change isn't expected to make me any less or more money. The issue is this, I love the idea of pvp gambling and think it's really cool and indeed something that makes bustabit unique. However for players who play purely against the house,  the pvp aspect does them a disservice (they unknowingly get taken advantage of by players who are playing pvp).

Based on my unscientific polling and analysis, leads me to believe that playing bonus oblivious is by far the most common way to play bustabit. So for that reason, I think the most reasonable and fair thing to do, is split it into two games. One specifically for people who want to play against each other. And one for people who want to play against the house

 
Quote
How would the pvp game work? What would be the incentive for anyone to play at all?

I'm currently working with the idea that in the pvp version, the multiplier starts at 0.9x and increases from there. The bonuses would work just like they do currently on bustabit, except that they would be an average of 10% instead of 1%
LosDeXibalbaMC
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March 07, 2017, 02:11:16 AM
 #3092

quote from RHavar
Wow! thanksfinland turned 25 bits into 10 BTC with an amazing 400,000.00x cashout. Totally shattering the previous record from cowbay of a 50,001x cashout.

Good Shot Thanksfinland .

Congratulations the kitty hunter. , Now I challenge you to multiply your winnings of 9 million X 33.3 in order to win the first place of the BaB podium

I am the LosDeXibalbaMC player,,  https://www.bustabit.com/user/LosDeXibalbaMC

Good success to all Bustabit players and great thanks to the great boss of BaB Don Ryan, Go Master Ryan Sky dont have a Limit!!

torry28
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March 07, 2017, 02:48:57 AM
 #3093

Wow! thanksfinland turned 25 bits into 10 BTC with an amazing 400,000.00x cashout. Totally shattering the previous record from cowbay of a 50,001x cashout.
what a crazy luck, but when i checked his net profit https://www.bustabit.com/user/thanksfinland He's still in big negative profit (He betting a lot with 25 bits), thought his profit already in positive.

Congratulations the kitty hunter. , Now I challenge you to multiply your winnings of 9 million X 33.3 in order to win the first place of the BaB podium
It is not easy, and he could losing his 9 millions bits (around 10 BTC) when he does that.
Um, your net profit 252BTC...
kolloh
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March 07, 2017, 05:29:51 AM
 #3094

Wow! thanksfinland turned 25 bits into 10 BTC with an amazing 400,000.00x cashout. Totally shattering the previous record from cowbay of a 50,001x cashout.

Now that is indeed an impressive cashout and definitely way more that the last record. 25 bits to 10btc is such a big win. Congrats on that hit thanksfinland!
cowbay
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March 07, 2017, 01:29:31 PM
 #3095

Wow! thanksfinland turned 25 bits into 10 BTC with an amazing 400,000.00x cashout. Totally shattering the previous record from cowbay of a 50,001x cashout.


Actually it was 100,001x (https://www.bustabit.com/game/2318863) but it was shattered nonetheless. Never thought someone would be insane enough to try and break it. Congrats thanksfinland.
cramcram21
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March 07, 2017, 01:35:54 PM
 #3096

Really great site to play I really like this site so much,
It gives me thrill and excite me in a fun way but I always lose.
libertynow
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March 07, 2017, 05:01:28 PM
 #3097

This is really disappointing.  The bonuses is what makes the game actually possible to beat long term.  Seems like a money grab decision.  It's really too bad because it's currently a unique game, now it'll just be another casino website.  whoopee, as if that's really needed....
Not really, the change isn't expected to make me any less or more money. The issue is this, I love the idea of pvp gambling and think it's really cool and indeed something that makes bustabit unique. However for players who play purely against the house,  the pvp aspect does them a disservice (they unknowingly get taken advantage of by players who are playing pvp).

Based on my unscientific polling and analysis, leads me to believe that playing bonus oblivious is by far the most common way to play bustabit. So for that reason, I think the most reasonable and fair thing to do, is split it into two games. One specifically for people who want to play against each other. And one for people who want to play against the house

 
Quote
How would the pvp game work? What would be the incentive for anyone to play at all?

I'm currently working with the idea that in the pvp version, the multiplier starts at 0.9x and increases from there. The bonuses would work just like they do currently on bustabit, except that they would be an average of 10% instead of 1%

1) How long will the current site be available for/when will the new site be released?

2) I still don't understand how the pvp will work?  Don't you need "oblivious" players to keep playing or it's just negative ev if one guy is playing all by himself...?

Liquid Tech, Asset #17750387231635486778, http://www.liquidtech.info
statdude
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March 07, 2017, 05:37:25 PM
 #3098






I honestly think this is a huge risk factor for the site.

In a casino, you have two categories of players. Skill based (poker Players and Blackjack Players) vs Luck /casual Roulette/Slots players.

Roulette / slots players don't give two craps about their edge or anything and are generally casual players.

Blackjack Players and Poker players may or may not ACTUALLY have an edge. But, if they think they do, they will keep coming back, and will also mix with the non-skill players, and occasionally go "tilt" on the luck games.

It's having both under the same roof that "brings the action". The fact that 90% of players don't know about, understand, or care about their house edge does not mean you are doing them any disservice by keeping it as is. This is why  "slots only" casinos feel dead compared to one that has a Pit and Poker room, with lots of different types of players.

Also, the big winners (using "skill", usually) attract more "luck" players.

I think splitting the PVP players from the main game would be a huge negative for bustabit. Hopefully it doesnt happen.

Caveat, i would love to play the new PVP version, I just hope the original version isn't changed, as the rules are perfectly elegant as is - they are what have made Bustabit great.

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March 07, 2017, 06:44:37 PM
 #3099

Also, the big winners (using "skill", usually) attract more "luck" players.

That seems to be the crux of your argument, but I think it's flawed. "Skill" players have a pretty small edge and tend to make small gains. The biggest winners are "luck" players who got lucky. You don't make huge wins taking advantage of the 1% bonus...

From what RHavar has said, apparently the pool of "skill" players is pretty small. The "luck" players wouldn't notice if the "skill" players went away altogether. It wouldn't affect their experience at all, other than that they wouldn't be losing quite as fast.

Currently the "luck" player losses are being split between the house and the "skill" players. If the skill aspect is removed then the "luck" players lose more slowly, but 100% of their losses go to the house instead of being split. Eventually they will still tend to lose their whole deposit. It will take twice as long as before, but the house will end up with it all.

So it's win/win: the house makes more profit (because it isn't sharing the spoils with the skill players) and the luck players get to play twice as long per deposit. It's a losing proposition for the skill players, but there aren't many of those anyway.

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March 07, 2017, 06:58:49 PM
 #3100

1) How long will the current site be available for/when will the new site be released?
I'm expecting it'll be around for at least 2 or 3 more months. I'm in no rush to release the new version, and want to make sure everyone is totally happy with it, before I do any sort of switch over. You should be able to get an idea of the blockers by following this: https://github.com/bustabit/bustabit-client/milestone/1   (but keep in mind as time and testing progresses more issues will definitely be added)

Quote
2) I still don't understand how the pvp will work?  Don't you need "oblivious" players to keep playing or it's just negative ev if one guy is playing all by himself...?

You don't need to be playing against oblivious players, just be better than the other players currently playing. If everyone is the same level, they'll probably bleed money slowly (at a dynamic 0-1% house edge, like bustabit currently has).  It's very much like poker when you think about it. If you're a lot better than someone, you can overcome the rake and take advantage of them. But if they're playing nash or you're the same level, you'll just slowly bleed.

Also I agree with Dooglus about the lucky players attracting attention, not the skillful ones. For instance, I know you've put a lot of work in your bot (which seems to be doing a great job!), and it's up 2 BTC. However, that's nothing compared to the 3 players we have (gohard, LosDeXibalbaMC, dudaxmaimons) who are all >200 BTC in net profit from good luck (most of them have had an EV of ~-0.5 to ~-0.8%)!

I honestly think this is a huge risk factor for the site.

I agree. I'm thinking the biggest risk is that because bustabit is a game that *allows* skilled players to make a profit (unlike most other sites) it attracts gambles who trick themselves into believing they're playing skillfully, but actually just playing lucky. With a split, it'll be a lot me a lot more apparent.

Anyway, I have no plan of rushing through changes. And and maintaining a branch that puts the odds identical to how they are now (with bonuses).

I like to think I have a very open mind, and a bad intuition about these sort of things. So I'm more than happy to revert back to the original scheme/bonuses if that's what's best for my players
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