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Author Topic: [ANN][XCN] Cryptonite | 1st mini-blockchain coin | M7 PoW | No Premine  (Read 518256 times)
reorder
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August 02, 2014, 10:14:39 PM
 #861

I'm rather a fan of the PoW, seeing as how i wrote it and all. I think nobody has really sat down to think about how hard that "silly multiplication"

Have you actually profiled it? I have, and most of the time is currently being spent in the hash functions, not the multiply. Granted that is CPU not GPU, but I'm skeptical that multiply will be a major bottleneck. Someone may prove me wrong, we'll see.

AMD GCN, for instance, performs any VALU operation in 4 clocks. mul_hi and mul_lo are two disctinct operations though, so it takes 8 clock to multiply two 32-bit ints in all running threads. An addition or bitwise operations take 4. Multiplication is obviously not the bottleneck in this design.
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reorder
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August 02, 2014, 10:20:45 PM
 #862

Welcome to ...
★★★ CRYPTONITE 1GH POOL ★★★

--> xcn.1gh.com <--


Any nodes?
My wallet cant sync (
Seeding works pretty well, actually. Here are a few running now, just in case: 216.51.224.242, 210.64.51.11, 58.220.3.208, 71.8.128.127
Burninj
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August 02, 2014, 10:23:44 PM
 #863

Do we have an emission curve?
catia
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August 02, 2014, 10:26:31 PM
 #864

I'm rather a fan of the PoW, seeing as how i wrote it and all. I think nobody has really sat down to think about how hard that "silly multiplication"

Have you actually profiled it? I have, and most of the time is currently being spent in the hash functions, not the multiply. Granted that is CPU not GPU, but I'm skeptical that multiply will be a major bottleneck. Someone may prove me wrong, we'll see.


On CPU multiplication is highly optimized, for GPU even the oh so hard to do methods will have big time problems. I'm willing to believe that most of time is spent in hashes on CPU, but that can change if somebody optimizes the difficult hash functions, and is only true because the CPU is so efficient at multiplication.  Like I said I think doing the hashes on GPU and multiplying it on CPU will turn out to be the setup. How much that buys you I don't know. Maybe you triple performance of a 4770k by adding a 750ti? Whatever it is won't be any sempron with 1x pcie. Maybe a 750ti goes same speed as 4770k by itself. These are all possibilities that don't seem highly advantageous to me.  Still going to get mopped up by a dual xeon on EC2 without the capital costs.

Pretty sure nobody has it, although Wolf has been quiet for the past day. I'm working on it.

AMD GCN, for instance, performs any VALU operation in 4 clocks. mul_hi and mul_lo are two disctinct operations though, so it takes 8 clock to multiply two 32-bit ints in all running threads. An addition or bitwise operations take 4. Multiplication is obviously not the bottleneck in this design.

This is true but it depends on what you think of as threads. thing is a barrel processor and a "clock" really takes as many cycles as it takes to get through the barrel. Really you have to figure instruction issuance rates which is the SIMD width * number of cores * clock rate. The number of resident threads in the barrel does not increase issuance, only the probability and instruction is able to issue on every clock.

Also GCN has only 24bit multiplier and there are some extra instruction for combining even 32bit multiplies into 64. You need 4 mul + some adds. And then you have mul_hi mul_lo. So it's a whole mess of instructions. Not to mention amount of memory required. Probably to big for lmem so you have lots of load/store traffic going on.
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August 02, 2014, 10:32:59 PM
 #865

most of time is spent in hashes on CPU, but that can change if somebody optimizes the difficult hash functions, and is only true because the

The hash implementations looked reasonably decent to me. Perhaps that is not the case, I haven't looked carefully, but it is at least trying to be fast. See Tuning at http://www.saphir2.com/sphlib/

There might be some advantage on the 512 hashes to dump the upper bits of output since I think they are not used. I'm not sure how far back into the hash algorithm this is effective, but my guess is not that far.





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August 02, 2014, 10:35:59 PM
 #866

I'm still getting many rejects on http://xcn.1gh.com, accept rate is pending between 72-85% on 5 different boxes.

Any ideas, reorder? Anything miners can do?

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August 02, 2014, 10:39:22 PM
 #867

most of time is spent in hashes on CPU, but that can change if somebody optimizes the difficult hash functions, and is only true because the

The hash implementations looked reasonably decent to me. Perhaps that is not the case, I haven't looked carefully, but it is at least trying to be fast. See Tuning at http://www.saphir2.com/sphlib/

There might be some advantage on the 512 hashes to dump the upper bits of output since I think they are not used. I'm not sure how far back into the hash algorithm this is effective, but my guess is not that far.


Reorder is working on something with midstate on 1GH. Can be improved further I believe. Can also prepad the hashes. Bunch of things can be done. sph is not bad just doing things that don't need to be done repeatedly.

All bits of the hashes are used. The product is some nearly 3000 bit number which is hashed into sha256
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August 02, 2014, 10:51:34 PM
 #868

Cpuminer on xcn.1gh.com updated now, 40%+ speedup.
smooth
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August 02, 2014, 10:53:07 PM
 #869

most of time is spent in hashes on CPU, but that can change if somebody optimizes the difficult hash functions, and is only true because the

The hash implementations looked reasonably decent to me. Perhaps that is not the case, I haven't looked carefully, but it is at least trying to be fast. See Tuning at http://www.saphir2.com/sphlib/

There might be some advantage on the 512 hashes to dump the upper bits of output since I think they are not used. I'm not sure how far back into the hash algorithm this is effective, but my guess is not that far.


Reorder is working on something with midstate on 1GH. Can be improved further I believe. Can also prepad the hashes. Bunch of things can be done. sph is not bad just doing things that don't need to be done repeatedly.

All bits of the hashes are used. The product is some nearly 3000 bit number which is hashed into sha256

Okay I agree midstate will have some benefit here. I don't know how much. It is a long way to go before the multiply becomes a bottleneck.

Thank you for the correction on the multiply output being fully used. That does help.
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August 02, 2014, 11:01:06 PM
 #870

well, I decided to give this coin a shot, found out there's no pools, boo, so i set up a wallet to solo mine on 4 different i7 computers, been almost 24 hours now and one of them did find one block, so i guess that's good? hurray? can't really see how fast it's mining in the wallet, used to seeing my hashrate and accepts flying by on the GPUs i mine with. all i can say is that in task manager the wallet's cpu performance is at %90+ so it seems to be working.

my concern is the price, it seems incredibly inflated. there's over 300,000 new coins meing mined a day, so in 10 days this will have as much coins as cloakcoin for example (of which the price seems appropriately compared to) but after that it's just going to get diluded. in 20 days it will be worth half as much. to me this seems unsustainable.

i've never heard of a coin with 1.84 billion coins that's been worth 8000 satoshis. that on it's own is just very impressive, but I gotta say, as an investor, i'd be looking to short this right now, no way this is a sustainable price unless you want to valuate this being worth as much as 100x doge right out of the gate. 10x maybe i'd believe, but not 100. this is silly.

I agree, this coin isn't a speculator's coin. Not sure why he chose this structure.
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August 02, 2014, 11:20:06 PM
 #871

Cpuminer on xcn.1gh.com updated now, 40%+ speedup.

reorder i got a lot of "Stratum requested work restart". Some miners can't even send jobs after 10 min. Any fix? Thanks.
reorder
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August 02, 2014, 11:22:46 PM
 #872

Cpuminer on xcn.1gh.com updated now, 40%+ speedup.

reorder i got a lot of "Stratum requested work restart". Some miners can't even send jobs after 10 min. Any fix? Thanks.
If you run several workers, please try using different wallet addresses to get a lower share difficulty for each. Cryptonite has important block bits updated with every transaction appearing on the network so we have to update miners tasks frequently too.
earnabit
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August 02, 2014, 11:27:18 PM
 #873

New Mining Pool  1% Fees!

http://pool.minichain.info pays out once a day proportional to the number of shares (share difficulty = 512)
Also check out the blockexplorer at http://minichain.info It might be down sporadically over the next few days if I'm working on it more

If I get enough interest, I'll release the source code for both

JackCash.info | The first truly fair cryptcurrency
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August 02, 2014, 11:36:46 PM
 #874

I live for a day when developers will actualy launch a coin which is as promised in announcement. So far, the only non-instamined coin out there is also the first one - Bitcoin.
Any other coin was instamined and XCN is not exception. Developers who can implement killer features in their coin surely know what starting difficulty should they go with to
really prevent instamine but, as it can be seen again, that is actualy not in their interest. Nor it is in their interest to provide optimized CPU / GPU miners and 100% working wallet
at the very start of mining.

"The first couple of hours were bit of a bumpy ride, the first Windows binaries released were buggy and caused a bunch of mini-forks to break out, preventing Windows users
from participating in the network until we released a fix."

Pathetic scumbags.

are you joking ? How many people were running on bitcoin at start... It is certainly the coin which has been the most intamined

Listen retarded noob, you need to learn how to read blockchain explorer data first in order for you and me to have any meaningful debate on the matter. Until then just STFU.
Sorry old moron who can't take a joke, I don't listen to your kind in general but your comment is just pathetic

djm34 facebook page
BTC: 1NENYmxwZGHsKFmyjTc5WferTn5VTFb7Ze
Pledge for neoscrypt ccminer to that address: 16UoC4DmTz2pvhFvcfTQrzkPTrXkWijzXw
smooth
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August 02, 2014, 11:42:48 PM
 #875

are you joking ? How many people were running on bitcoin at start... It is certainly the coin which has been the most intamined

Instamined can mean a lot of things to a lot of people but I tend to view it as having an unusual rate total coins mined at the beginning (usually due to bad difficulty adjustment algorithms).

If that happened with bitcoin it would have been most severe in the first two weeks  (before the first adjustment). If we look at block 1, that is January 9, 2009. Block 2016 is January 27, which is 18 days later, or somewhat slower than the 14 day target. Block 4032 was February 12, which is right on target.

This is not instamined, it is just lack of interest to mine. Which is to say that nobody thought the damn thing would be worth anything (you can also see this if you view the generally negative reaction on the cryptography mailing list). They were wrong in hindsight, but they had every opportunity to mine if they wanted to.

There was no instamine or premine on bitcoin, just misjudgment by early miners (and more importantly potential miners) as to its value.


blaaaaacksuit
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August 02, 2014, 11:50:14 PM
 #876

The coin emission here is probably going to crush the coins value for quite a while, like XMR.
AizenSou
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August 02, 2014, 11:55:10 PM
 #877

New Mining Pool  1% Fees!

http://pool.minichain.info pays out once a day proportional to the number of shares (share difficulty = 512)
Also check out the blockexplorer at http://minichain.info It might be down sporadically over the next few days if I'm working on it more

If I get enough interest, I'll release the source code for both

That's nice. But could you change the payout to every hour or at least 3, 4hours. Once per day just taking too long for every miners.
smooth
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August 02, 2014, 11:59:34 PM
 #878

The coin emission here is probably going to crush the coins value for quite a while, like XMR.

It is a lot worse than XMR in that respect.

I think this coin is profoundly overvalued at current prices even if you fully ignore the launch/PoW issues and even if you fully believe in the unique value proposition, both of which I find questionable.
earnabit
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August 03, 2014, 12:13:41 AM
 #879

New Mining Pool  1% Fees!

http://pool.minichain.info pays out once a day proportional to the number of shares (share difficulty = 512)
Also check out the blockexplorer at http://minichain.info It might be down sporadically over the next few days if I'm working on it more

If I get enough interest, I'll release the source code for both

That's nice. But could you change the payout to every hour or at least 3, 4hours. Once per day just taking too long for every miners.

I'll change it to 4 hours

JackCash.info | The first truly fair cryptcurrency
smooth
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August 03, 2014, 12:15:19 AM
 #880

The coin emission here is probably going to crush the coins value for quite a while, like XMR.

It is a lot worse than XMR in that respect.

I think this coin is profoundly overvalued at current prices even if you fully ignore the launch/PoW issues and even if you fully believe in the unique value proposition, both of which I find questionable.

Cryptonite should not be compared with Monero since Bytecoin was the first ever cryptonote coin and Cryptonite is a whole different concept. Launch is over now, miners are mining, traders are trading. What can you do about it?

If you think the launch is bad enough and the developer refuses to relaunch it then you fork it. That is what happens in open source when the developer loses the confidence of the community. I don't know whether that is the case here but it was exactly the case for Bytecoin/Monero.

Quote
In the end, the market decides how much XCN should be worth.

Yup, I'm betting much lower before (possibly) much higher. And by which I mean I am literally betting that.

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