Scientific proof that God exists?

[the joint]

It's the empirical evidence that get's me.. you have evidence of whatever, or you dont. The rest, as earlier stated, is nothing more than empirically unfalsifiable assumptions, assumptions being wild guess's without evidence at best.

There are different kinds of falsifiability.  Empirical falsifiability is only one of them.  Logical falsifiability is another.

It is impossible to empirically falsify the non-empirical assumption of a Positivistic Universe wielded by science.

However, it is possible to logically falsify the non-empirical assumption of a Positivistic Universe by proving its inverse to be logically true (i.e. we do not live in a Positivistic Universe).

Similarly, claims that intelligent design is not empirically falsifiable are true, but insignificant.  Intelligent design can be proven true by proving its inverse false, or could be falsified if its inverse were proven logically true.

[1714154677]

1714154677

[the joint]

BY intelligent design, do you mean the design is intelligent, or it was designed by an intelligent designer? Because The only consistancy in nature is the randomness of everything, as nothing appears twice in the same form.

Edit: Now that takes intelligence.. or at least a record of what went before, so as not to repeat..

The product of intelligent design is a mental construct.

If reality is demonstrated to be a mental construct, i.e. made from/by mind, then it follows intelligent design is true.

[(oYo)]

Most posts in this thread can be joked about.  But I've yet to hear a valid response to this:

In the same way that the scope of science is insufficient to comment upon its own non-empirical assumptions, it is also insufficient to comment upon the non-empirical aspects of God (again, assuming God exists; whether He actually does or does not exist is irrelevant to this consideration).

Anyone against the idea of intelligent design based upon science (or, specifically, the lack of physical evidence for an intelligent designer) faces the challenge of reconciling that belief with the contradictory notion that it is perfectly permissible to accept the empirically unfalsifiable assumptions wielded by science.

I think the quote by Christopher Hitchens best addresses unfalsifiable assumptions.
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
http://www.dallasdancemusic.com/photos/data/500/0308-ScienceVsFaith.png

[Decksperiment]

BY intelligent design, do you mean the design is intelligent, or it was designed by an intelligent designer? Because The only consistancy in nature is the randomness of everything, as nothing appears twice in the same form.

Edit: Now that takes intelligence.. or at least a record of what went before, so as not to repeat..

The product of intelligent design is a mental construct.

If reality is demonstrated to be a mental construct, i.e. made from/by mind, then it follows intelligent design is true.

And for at least 500 years, advanced freemasons have known that the universe is mental. Thanks in part to the emerald tablets of Thoth

[Decksperiment]

Lets pretend for a moment that the sky above reflects that which is below, in this case, show me earth above, without pointing to the ball you stand on..

[the joint]

Most posts in this thread can be joked about.  But I've yet to hear a valid response to this:

In the same way that the scope of science is insufficient to comment upon its own non-empirical assumptions, it is also insufficient to comment upon the non-empirical aspects of God (again, assuming God exists; whether He actually does or does not exist is irrelevant to this consideration).

Anyone against the idea of intelligent design based upon science (or, specifically, the lack of physical evidence for an intelligent designer) faces the challenge of reconciling that belief with the contradictory notion that it is perfectly permissible to accept the empirically unfalsifiable assumptions wielded by science.

I think the quote by Christopher Hitchens best addresses unfalsifiable assumptions.
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
http://www.dallasdancemusic.com/photos/data/500/0308-ScienceVsFaith.png

Christopher Hitchens comes up short on this issue for he fails to consider logical falsification.

Hitchens was wrong, and if he were still alive I'd love for him to provide physical evidence for support of his statement (rather than the logical basis he would undoubtedly defer to).

Edit:  By the way, I'm a huge fan of Hitchens with respect to his political commentary and his anti-dogmatic stance about religion.

Edit 2: Yet, based upon the quote, do you think Hitchens would dismiss, then, the non-empirical assumptions of science?  Science (well, at least classical physics) depends upon the assumption of a Positivistic Universe, an assumption for which there is not, nor could there ever be, any physical evidence.  Empirical falsification of this assumption would require empirical data collected via observation in a Universe totally void of observers, leading to an irreconcilable contradiction. Logical falsification of a Postivistic Universe is amazingly simple.

[Decksperiment]

I think what I'm trying to tell you, is that without all the gobbledegook words you use, quite simply, the universe is a mental process, hence how people can control the elements.. does this mean I get my degree in bullshit now lol?

Just out of curiosity, how does one falsify an assumption?

Assumption being the mother of all fuck ups

[the joint]

I think what I'm trying to tell you, is that without all the gobbledegook words you use, quite simply, the universe is a mental process, hence how people can control the elements.. does this mean I get my degree in bullshit now lol?

I use the words that I do because they serve a specific purpose(s), namely consistency and poignancy.

[the joint]

I think what I'm trying to tell you, is that without all the gobbledegook words you use, quite simply, the universe is a mental process, hence how people can control the elements.. does this mean I get my degree in bullshit now lol?

Just out of curiosity, how does one falsify an assumption?

Assumption being the mother of all fuck ups

By proving its inverse true.

[Decksperiment]

Shame we're clearly not dealing with the scientific proof of god, which according to your question may suggest that WE are the creator, as guided by the ALL-SOUL - (GOD) shown in my remix of the emerald tablets, that part where it state's "Formless was He within his Temple (galaxy/universe?), yet was He formed in the image of men." <-note the last wod is not MAN

edit: is it possible that the temple is the head?

You now know the fact..

[bl4kjaguar]

God is love. In my opinion, The love energy "purple plate" is physical evidence of God.

Science has proven that by projecting love or positive energy to a plant, the plant will flourish. The plate energy will also do the same thing to plants. Burns, cuts, aches and pains involve a sudden change to the normal vibration rate of tissue. The theory is that the energy around the plates helps to accelerate the healing and thus return the injured area to its normal rate of vibration.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/esp_ciencia_universalenergy09.htm

[the joint]

Shame we're clearly not dealing with the scientific proof of god, which according to your question may suggest that WE are the creator, as guided by the ALL-SOUL - (GOD) shown in my remix of the emerald tablets, that part where it state's "Formless was He within his Temple (galaxy/universe?), yet was He formed in the image of men." <-note the last wod is not MAN

edit: is it possible that the temple is the head?

You now know the fact..

Stop with "scientific proof of God" garbage.  It is simply a logical impossibility for there to be any.  Empirical methods of exploration like the Scientific Method have a scope of exploration which is simply insufficient to comment about the matter whatsoever.  Period.  The end.

Anybody who concludes one way or another about God's existence based upon empirical evidence (or a lack thereof) is wasting air, and has no idea what he is talking about.

[Decksperiment]

Shame we're clearly not dealing with the scientific proof of god, which according to your question may suggest that WE are the creator, as guided by the ALL-SOUL - (GOD) shown in my remix of the emerald tablets, that part where it state's "Formless was He within his Temple (galaxy/universe?), yet was He formed in the image of men." <-note the last wod is not MAN

edit: is it possible that the temple is the head?

You now know the fact..

Stop with "scientific proof of God" garbage.  It is simply a logical impossibility for there to be any.  Empirical methods of exploration like the Scientific Method have a scope of exploration which is simply insufficient to comment about the matter whatsoever.  Period.  The end.

Anybody who concludes one way or another about God's existence based upon empirical evidence (or a lack thereof) is wasting air, and has no idea what he is talking about.

Wowsers.. you are the only one here wasting air with your irelevant nonsensical crap that means nothing to anyone else, I have been posting evidence taken from a plethora of books, (instead of one) including the oldest manuscript on earth.. why try to answer if you know you cant? Take it up with the OP who asked for Scientific proof that God exists. Since the oldest manuscript on earth deals with not only scientific proof, but shows the way to discovering so called masonic secret's, which in turn show not only proof of, but where to find it, I would ask you again, take it up with the OP. When he closes this thread, then that'll be that, but some people want the evidence I have posted, since no-one else is capable due to having masonic brethren as family. Or believe in that christian nonsense that sends you to THEIR house.

[the joint]

Shame we're clearly not dealing with the scientific proof of god, which according to your question may suggest that WE are the creator, as guided by the ALL-SOUL - (GOD) shown in my remix of the emerald tablets, that part where it state's "Formless was He within his Temple (galaxy/universe?), yet was He formed in the image of men." <-note the last wod is not MAN

edit: is it possible that the temple is the head?

You now know the fact..

Stop with "scientific proof of God" garbage.  It is simply a logical impossibility for there to be any.  Empirical methods of exploration like the Scientific Method have a scope of exploration which is simply insufficient to comment about the matter whatsoever.  Period.  The end.

Anybody who concludes one way or another about God's existence based upon empirical evidence (or a lack thereof) is wasting air, and has no idea what he is talking about.

Wowsers.. you are the only one here wasting air with your irelevant nonsensical crap that means nothing to anyone else, I have been posting evidence taken from a plethora of books, (instead of one) including the oldest manuscript on earth.. why try to answer if you know you cant? Take it up with the OP who asked for Scientific proof that God exists. Since the oldest manuscript on earth deals with not only scientific proof, but shows the way to discovering so called masonic secret's, which in turn show not only proof of, but where to find it, I would ask you again, take it up with the OP. When he closes this thread, then that'll be that, but some people want the evidence I have posted, since no-one else is capable due to having masonic brethren as family. Or believe in that christian nonsense that sends you to THEIR house.

Uh, no dude.  The Scientific Process is an inductive method of reasoning.  Inductive methods of reasoning have limitations which prohibit it from commenting upon the universal (and therefore stands no chance at commenting upon the cause of the unversal).

http://www.stat.ucdavis.edu/~beran/inference.html

Hume's scepticism rests entirely upon his rejection of the principle of induction. The principle of induction, as applied to causality, says that, if A has been found very often accompanied or followed by B, and no instance is known of A not being accompanied or followed by B, then it is probable that on the next occasion on which A is observed it will be accompanied or followed by B. If the principle is to be adequate, a sufficient number of instances must make the probability not far short of certainty. If the principle, or any other from which it can be deduced, is true, then the causal inferences which Hume rejects are valid, not indeed as giving certainty, but as giving a sufficient probability for practical purposes. If this principle is not true, every attempt to arrive at general scientific laws from particular observations is fallacious, and Hume's scepticism is inescapable for an empiricist.

The principle itself cannot, of course, without circularity, be inferred from observed uniformities, since it is required to justify any such inference. It must therefore be, or be deduced from, an independent principle not based on experience. To this extent, Hume has proved that pure empiricism is not a sufficient basis for science. But if this one principle is admitted, everything else can proceed in accordance with the theory that all our knowledge is based on experience. It must be granted that this is a serious departure from pure empiricism, and that those who are not empiricists may ask why, if one departure is allowed, others are to be forbidden.

You were saying?

The only reason the scientific method works is by first relying upon assumptions or premises which are independent of experience, i.e. non-empirical.  It is axiomatic via the scientific method that, by definition, it cannot explore the non-empirical, but only the empirical...which is exactly what I've been saying.

Edit:  Furthermore, the last sentence quoted is particularly relevant.  If a departure from "pure empiricism" must be made to account for the non-empirical assumptions of science, then why cannot a departure be made for other non-empirical things (i.e. the non-empirical characteristics that would necessarily exist, again by definition, of an intelligent designer)?

[Decksperiment]

Hmm.. What to say next?

I bought a present for my then 10 year old daughter, a crystal ball. She said, what's this for daddy? I said, "It is nothing more than a point of focus for that which you already know, but without it, you will never see as clear as you will if you learn to use it"

The next year, I bought her a pack of Tarot card's.. again she ask's, why these dad? I said, "Well, now that you know what the crystal ball is for, you should be able to see the same thing in the card's, but the cards can help focus more than the crystal ball" - "how's that dad?" - "The card's have intentional combinations of colour and curves designed to evoke your subconciousnous, allowing you to enter Samadhi, which is the actual purpose of freemasonry. Freemason's practice this all their life, attempting to create that which is nothing more than a state of trance. This state of trance is required in order to "move to the goal" - read the origional emerald tablet's, for this goal.. This is why it is a requirement of many secret societies, that the aspiring member must learn the emerald tablet of by heart, note, I say tablet, not tablet's.. do not be confused. There are however people born with the ability to instantly induce this state of mind, and this is, if anything, that which they wish to keep from the world. I can only leave it to you to realise why. Maybe your ball or cards will help, but I doubt it, you either can or cant do it, but in time, you will.."

So we're looking for Scientific proof of god are we? Let's attempt to cut to the chase, and assume that there is indeed two other worlds, excluding the one we stand on. We live in this one, would you call this fact? Do you have scientific proof that you have dreamt at ANY time in your life? NO.

Do you have any proof that there are remnant's of your what you'd call 'soul' after death? NO. You cant prove you have one while your alive. Can you prove that the soul is the spirit? NO. And herein is a key.

They say god is everything, he is our light, our life, and when he withdraws his breath from your body, you die. What? You die? By believing this (scientific) fact, you kill any chance you have of being reborn, if this is your desire. Again, herein is a key.

The emerald tablets of Thoth have a most perfect description of an entity that lives in ALL of us, Known as the "dweller" - the all seeing eye. Why do you think this has been used by freemasonry for over 64.000 years? Notice when I ask a question, no-one answer's, unless they are capable of doing so? They cant, or WONT, not because they are correct or incorrect, they WONT, because they know not to. What I mean by this, is this:

I found a pool of water that, when drank, gives you eternal life. But there is only so much of this gold, so to whom should I share my new found wealth with?

If we all knew we could CHOOSE to be reborn, or move on to higher forms of existance by shedding the body as a snake shed's it's skin.. would you? EVERYONE would.

So let's start at the beginning.. The oldest manuscript on earth is the emerald tablet's, not THE emerald tablet, which simply teaches micro/macrocosmus man. In earlier post's I mentioned that in earlier days of my life, i had dreams.. no, visions, of being inside a larger living entity, and most folks probably laughed. Try lookin up, and make me believe you are outside this universe? You cant, for I am right. Yet I was describing a vision of this micro/macrocosmus image. The emerald Tablets, the bible, both mention spirit.. or spirit's. From the 17th century, there was an explosion of books classed as 'magic' books, be that magic, good or evil, is not the point here, the fact is these books exist, and the potential reader is warned not to take these books lightly, for they do indeed give access to potent FORCES, that MAY be described as spirit's. I need go no further re: spirit's for now, but I will say this: People have been practicing these 'act's' for want of a better word, for at least 64.000 years, some civilisations call these spirit's god's, other's, demon's. But it is true, that they are also governed by higher scource's. They have to follow the laws as we do, only human law, as mentioned in the emerald tablet's, runs counter to those COSMIC laws. Quite simply, for now, it is nothing more than magic, the applicant KNOWS the cause and effect, of drawing a stupid picture, looking into a glass ball, or carrying out (masonic/religious) RITUAL's. Magic cannot be called good OR evil, for it is a coin with two side's, one good, one evil. It is the USER who decide's the cause and effect.
This was portrayed in the matrix, where the frenchman seduced the lass with chocolate, and described what I just did. So it's ok to say I'm wrong, but freemasonry, or the church, whatever church, or religion, is correct?

Again, earlier I mentioned the hands of a clock. The large hand is the Moon. The small hand is the Sun. The second hand, is Mercury. And you think you know time? Try naming these hands with the respective god's of your country. All you know is a scientific measurement created by man that does NOT exist anywhere else in nature. But the Sun, the Moon, and Mercury are the elder brothers, and their orbit's are the 'cycles', as are the repetitive event's of life, like the four seasons. That part I believe in, and can be best described as a loop.

BADecker seems to think moses was created before god. I actually know he blundered here, and accept that, but had to jump on him for being such an idiot as to not know the scource of HIS book. You see, The bible is only just over 2000 years old. The folks that believe in this have been conned. They believe the only start of existance is written in the bible, and even go as far as to say that people used to live for thousands of years.. just to make up for the rest of the missing human history of the planet. But there is a scientific fact which allows me to prove that they are wrong. It has been posted throughout this thread, and not one single person chimed in to say, well, what about this?

The masonic god is known as Ja-Baal-On - how many movies adapt this to zeboulon?

Are you ready?

Yahweh, the christian name of god, existed before christianity. Before Moses. Before Jesus. 62.000 years ago in FACT. Created by (jewish)  freemasonry. Christianity is 2000 years old, not the rest of the planet's history. Ja of Ja-Baal-On is short for Yaweh. or yod hay, vau hay, proving Yaweh is jewish, Baal is cananite, (not jewish) and is viewed in the egyptian papyrus of the weighing of the soul by Anubis, (opener of the way) who weighs the soul while THOTH sit's ontop of the scales. See that half bull/crocodile? This is the devourer of souls, who required child sacrifice. The greeks have an almost identical image of the weighing of the heart. Of course, the names of the depicted character's in the greek version will be the greek gods. The point of 'On' - Osirius, is to remove the O. You now have Sirius. The short map I gave in earlier posts is nothing compared to the truth I know of. I Asked a question last night: Lets pretend for a moment that the sky above reflects that which is below, in this case, show me Earth above, without pointing to the ball you stand on..

A decent scientist may not be able to find proof of a particular thing, so then may ask those who have had similar problems, but overcome them. Those he asked, wrote their evidence in a book, then died before the decent scientist. The decent scientist reference's the deceased's writing's, considering them as proof. Well, for at least since they started 'praying' well before the pyramids were ever designed, they have acted out certain ritual's, with scientifically proven result's. Over and over again. So I say, if you want proof of god, start practising some of these magic 'spell's' for want of a better word, see if you get any results.. I personnaly prefer reading agrippa, due to the books being older than say john dee, but would never dream of practising - the art of magic.

Of couse God exists, only keep in mind, Jaweh is only ONE god, There are other's, like BAAL, the real question is, is who is subordinate to who?

They are ALL subordinate to the one no-one has or can ever name, for, as previously mentioned, THEN he has a life span. And hence can die.

[the joint]

Hmm.. What to say next?

I bought a present for my then 10 year old daughter, a crystal ball. She said, what's this for daddy? I said, "It is nothing more than a point of focus for that which you already know, but without it, you will never see as clear as you will if you learn to use it"

The next year, I bought her a pack of Tarot card's.. again she ask's, why these dad? I said, "Well, now that you know what the crystal ball is for, you should be able to see the same thing in the card's, but the cards can help focus more than the crystal ball" - "how's that dad?" - "The card's have intentional combinations of colour and curves designed to evoke your subconciousnous, allowing you to enter Samadhi, which is the actual purpose of freemasonry. Freemason's practice this all their life, attempting to create that which is nothing more than a state of trance. This state of trance is required in order to "move to the goal" - read the origional emerald tablet's, for this goal.. This is why it is a requirement of many secret societies, that the aspiring member must learn the emerald tablet of by heart, note, I say tablet, not tablet's.. do not be confused. There are however people born with the ability to instantly induce this state of mind, and this is, if anything, that which they wish to keep from the world. I can only leave it to you to realise why. Maybe your ball or cards will help, but I doubt it, you either can or cant do it, but in time, you will.."

So we're looking for Scientific proof of god are we? Let's attempt to cut to the chase, and assume that there is indeed two other worlds, excluding the one we stand on. We live in this one, would you call this fact? Do you have scientific proof that you have dreamt at ANY time in your life? NO.

Do you have any proof that there are remnant's of your what you'd call 'soul' after death? NO. You cant prove you have one while your alive. Can you prove that the soul is the spirit? NO. And herein is a key.

They say god is everything, he is our light, our life, and when he withdraws his breath from your body, you die. What? You die? By believing this (scientific) fact, you kill any chance you have of being reborn, if this is your desire. Again, herein is a key.

The emerald tablets of Thoth have a most perfect description of an entity that lives in ALL of us, Known as the "dweller" - the all seeing eye. Why do you think this has been used by freemasonry for over 64.000 years? Notice when I ask a question, no-one answer's, unless they are capable of doing so? They cant, or WONT, not because they are correct or incorrect, they WONT, because they know not to. What I mean by this, is this:

I found a pool of water that, when drank, gives you eternal life. But there is only so much of this gold, so to whom should I share my new found wealth with?

If we all knew we could CHOOSE to be reborn, or move on to higher forms of existance by shedding the body as a snake shed's it's skin.. would you? EVERYONE would.

So let's start at the beginning.. The oldest manuscript on earth is the emerald tablet's, not THE emerald tablet, which simply teaches micro/macrocosmus man. In earlier post's I mentioned that in earlier days of my life, i had dreams.. no, visions, of being inside a larger living entity, and most folks probably laughed. Try lookin up, and make me believe you are outside this universe? You cant, for I am right. Yet I was describing a vision of this micro/macrocosmus image. The emerald Tablets, the bible, both mention spirit.. or spirit's. From the 17th century, there was an explosion of books classed as 'magic' books, be that magic, good or evil, is not the point here, the fact is these books exist, and the potential reader is warned not to take these books lightly, for they do indeed give access to potent FORCES, that MAY be described as spirit's. I need go no further re: spirit's for now, but I will say this: People have been practicing these 'act's' for want of a better word, for at least 64.000 years, some civilisations call these spirit's god's, other's, demon's. But it is true, that they are also governed by higher scource's. They have to follow the laws as we do, only human law, as mentioned in the emerald tablet's, runs counter to those COSMIC laws. Quite simply, for now, it is nothing more than magic, the applicant KNOWS the cause and effect, of drawing a stupid picture, looking into a glass ball, or carrying out (masonic/religious) RITUAL's. Magic cannot be called good OR evil, for it is a coin with two side's, one good, one evil. It is the USER who decide's the cause and effect.
This was portrayed in the matrix, where the frenchman seduced the lass with chocolate, and described what I just did. So it's ok to say I'm wrong, but freemasonry, or the church, whatever church, or religion, is correct?

Again, earlier I mentioned the hands of a clock. The large hand is the Moon. The small hand is the Sun. The second hand, is Mercury. And you think you know time? Try naming these hands with the respective god's of your country. All you know is a scientific measurement created by man that does NOT exist anywhere else in nature. But the Sun, the Moon, and Mercury are the elder brothers, and their orbit's are the 'cycles', as are the repetitive event's of life, like the four seasons. That part I believe in, and can be best described as a loop.

BADecker seems to think moses was created before god. I actually know he blundered here, and accept that, but had to jump on him for being such an idiot as to not know the scource of HIS book. You see, The bible is only just over 2000 years old. The folks that believe in this have been conned. They believe the only start of existance is written in the bible, and even go as far as to say that people used to live for thousands of years.. just to make up for the rest of the missing human history of the planet. But there is a scientific fact which allows me to prove that they are wrong. It has been posted throughout this thread, and not one single person chimed in to say, well, what about this?

The masonic god is known as Ja-Baal-On - how many movies adapt this to zeboulon?

Are you ready?

Yahweh, the christian name of god, existed before christianity. Before Moses. Before Jesus. 62.000 years ago in FACT. Created by (jewish)  freemasonry. Christianity is 2000 years old, not the rest of the planet's history. Ja of Ja-Baal-On is short for Yaweh. or yod hay, vau hay, proving Yaweh is jewish, Baal is cananite, (not jewish) and is viewed in the egyptian papyrus of the weighing of the soul by Anubis, (opener of the way) who weighs the soul while THOTH sit's ontop of the scales. See that half bull/crocodile? This is the devourer of souls, who required child sacrifice. The greeks have an almost identical image of the weighing of the heart. Of course, the names of the depicted character's in the greek version will be the greek gods. The point of 'On' - Osirius, is to remove the O. You now have Sirius. The short map I gave in earlier posts is nothing compared to the truth I know of. I Asked a question last night: Lets pretend for a moment that the sky above reflects that which is below, in this case, show me Earth above, without pointing to the ball you stand on..

A decent scientist may not be able to find proof of a particular thing, so then may ask those who have had similar problems, but overcome them. Those he asked, wrote their evidence in a book, then died before the decent scientist. The decent scientist reference's the deceased's writing's, considering them as proof. Well, for at least since they started 'praying' well before the pyramids were ever designed, they have acted out certain ritual's, with scientifically proven result's. Over and over again. So I say, if you want proof of god, start practising some of these magic 'spell's' for want of a better word, see if you get any results.. I personnaly prefer reading agrippa, due to the books being older than say john dee, but would never dream of practising - the art of magic.

Of couse God exists, only keep in mind, Jaweh is only ONE god, There are other's, like BAAL, the real question is, is who is subordinate to who?

They are ALL subordinate to the one no-one has or can ever name, for, as previously mentioned, THEN he has a life span. And hence can die.

Basically the only relevant consideration I have to offer after reading all of this is a follow-up to the beginning of this statement that you make:

So we're looking for Scientific proof of god are we? Let's attempt to cut to the chase...

Yes, let's cut to the chase.  I am *not* looking for scientific proof of god because it is *logically impossible* for there to be any based upon the incontrovertible statements I made in my previous post.

Beyond that, I have no words.  Sorry.

[BADecker]

The only reason the scientific method works is by first relying upon assumptions or premises which are independent of experience, i.e. non-empirical.  It is axiomatic via the scientific method that, by definition, it cannot explore the non-empirical, but only the empirical...which is exactly what I've been saying.

Actually, the very foundational reason that the scientific method can work is that God has stabilized the universe in such a way that things that work have understandable reason, pattern and repetition-of-process to them. If it weren't for this, the scientific method would be totally useless except when being used to prove itself to be totally useless.

Before sin entered the world, the earth and the universe was charged with an almost unlimited abundance of the Energy of God. For a couple thousand years after sin entered, the Energy was still greatly present, even though God was pulling it out. In those times, there was so little stability in things that could be examined by the scientific method, that the scientific method could not work except in the most limited ways. Things didn't need to have scientifically measurable measurability to them, because the Energy of God held them in place. This is part of the reason why people, before the Great Flood and slightly thereafter, couldn't be scientific in the ways we know science.

However, those people DID use the Energy of God to form a worldwide trading organization (before the Flood), using the Energy along with the small amount of science they could grab hold of. Their trade organization was advanced beyond what ours is yet today. But, we are catching up.

Back before the Flood, the people decided to turn their backs on the understanding of God, just like multitudes are doing today. God held out His hands to them, with all the gifts of this world, and life that He gave them, but they still attempted to ignore Him, and downplay the exact Thing that was giving them life and holding their existence in place. We are doing similarly regarding how we are turning away from God.

Finally, God lost His patience, became angry, destroyed them all in the Flood, but saved Noah and his family because the Noah family were the only ones who continued to follow God. God started to withdraw His Energy from the earth (and maybe of the universe), so that people couldn't use His Energy to perpetrate evil any longer. To maintain a working world so that Noah and his descendants could live, God started to settle things in place with more understandable reason, pattern and repetition-of-process to them. Things were placed on automatic, so to speak, so they would work without the Energy of God in them, so mankind could live and progress.

This didn't last for long, however. Mankind went about pushing God out of their lives as much as they could. And they have been doing so more and more as time moves ahead. The understandable reason, pattern and repetition-of-process even have greater ability to be used by a shrewd and clever people, to push the knowledge of God out of their lives, than the energy of God did, because God Himself was in the Energy. And that is exactly what much of mankind has been attempting to use the scientific process for.

God won't take much more of this. In fact, He has His eyes on a time when man's evil progression will push Him beyond His limits. Then He will return in the form of His Son, Jesus, destroy the things that make science what it is, raise the dead, and judge everybody for all the good and evil they have done. Those who are/were on God's side will be given eternal life in the New Heavens and New Earth God is preparing.

God is efficient. Those who are/were against God will be "smelted" back into their original components, in the lake of fire, so that God gets even the "dregs" of His Energy back. Because of the greatness of God, and the greatness of the things He has made, both the salvation and the damnation will take an eternity.

God, Himself, exists outside of and within eternity at the same time.

[Decksperiment]

Hmm.. What to say next?

I bought a present for my then 10 year old daughter, a crystal ball. She said, what's this for daddy? I said, "It is nothing more than a point of focus for that which you already know, but without it, you will never see as clear as you will if you learn to use it"

The next year, I bought her a pack of Tarot card's.. again she ask's, why these dad? I said, "Well, now that you know what the crystal ball is for, you should be able to see the same thing in the card's, but the cards can help focus more than the crystal ball" - "how's that dad?" - "The card's have intentional combinations of colour and curves designed to evoke your subconciousnous, allowing you to enter Samadhi, which is the actual purpose of freemasonry. Freemason's practice this all their life, attempting to create that which is nothing more than a state of trance. This state of trance is required in order to "move to the goal" - read the origional emerald tablet's, for this goal.. This is why it is a requirement of many secret societies, that the aspiring member must learn the emerald tablet of by heart, note, I say tablet, not tablet's.. do not be confused. There are however people born with the ability to instantly induce this state of mind, and this is, if anything, that which they wish to keep from the world. I can only leave it to you to realise why. Maybe your ball or cards will help, but I doubt it, you either can or cant do it, but in time, you will.."

So we're looking for Scientific proof of god are we? Let's attempt to cut to the chase, and assume that there is indeed two other worlds, excluding the one we stand on. We live in this one, would you call this fact? Do you have scientific proof that you have dreamt at ANY time in your life? NO.

Do you have any proof that there are remnant's of your what you'd call 'soul' after death? NO. You cant prove you have one while your alive. Can you prove that the soul is the spirit? NO. And herein is a key.

They say god is everything, he is our light, our life, and when he withdraws his breath from your body, you die. What? You die? By believing this (scientific) fact, you kill any chance you have of being reborn, if this is your desire. Again, herein is a key.

The emerald tablets of Thoth have a most perfect description of an entity that lives in ALL of us, Known as the "dweller" - the all seeing eye. Why do you think this has been used by freemasonry for over 64.000 years? Notice when I ask a question, no-one answer's, unless they are capable of doing so? They cant, or WONT, not because they are correct or incorrect, they WONT, because they know not to. What I mean by this, is this:

I found a pool of water that, when drank, gives you eternal life. But there is only so much of this gold, so to whom should I share my new found wealth with?

If we all knew we could CHOOSE to be reborn, or move on to higher forms of existance by shedding the body as a snake shed's it's skin.. would you? EVERYONE would.

So let's start at the beginning.. The oldest manuscript on earth is the emerald tablet's, not THE emerald tablet, which simply teaches micro/macrocosmus man. In earlier post's I mentioned that in earlier days of my life, i had dreams.. no, visions, of being inside a larger living entity, and most folks probably laughed. Try lookin up, and make me believe you are outside this universe? You cant, for I am right. Yet I was describing a vision of this micro/macrocosmus image. The emerald Tablets, the bible, both mention spirit.. or spirit's. From the 17th century, there was an explosion of books classed as 'magic' books, be that magic, good or evil, is not the point here, the fact is these books exist, and the potential reader is warned not to take these books lightly, for they do indeed give access to potent FORCES, that MAY be described as spirit's. I need go no further re: spirit's for now, but I will say this: People have been practicing these 'act's' for want of a better word, for at least 64.000 years, some civilisations call these spirit's god's, other's, demon's. But it is true, that they are also governed by higher scource's. They have to follow the laws as we do, only human law, as mentioned in the emerald tablet's, runs counter to those COSMIC laws. Quite simply, for now, it is nothing more than magic, the applicant KNOWS the cause and effect, of drawing a stupid picture, looking into a glass ball, or carrying out (masonic/religious) RITUAL's. Magic cannot be called good OR evil, for it is a coin with two side's, one good, one evil. It is the USER who decide's the cause and effect.
This was portrayed in the matrix, where the frenchman seduced the lass with chocolate, and described what I just did. So it's ok to say I'm wrong, but freemasonry, or the church, whatever church, or religion, is correct?

Again, earlier I mentioned the hands of a clock. The large hand is the Moon. The small hand is the Sun. The second hand, is Mercury. And you think you know time? Try naming these hands with the respective god's of your country. All you know is a scientific measurement created by man that does NOT exist anywhere else in nature. But the Sun, the Moon, and Mercury are the elder brothers, and their orbit's are the 'cycles', as are the repetitive event's of life, like the four seasons. That part I believe in, and can be best described as a loop.

BADecker seems to think moses was created before god. I actually know he blundered here, and accept that, but had to jump on him for being such an idiot as to not know the scource of HIS book. You see, The bible is only just over 2000 years old. The folks that believe in this have been conned. They believe the only start of existance is written in the bible, and even go as far as to say that people used to live for thousands of years.. just to make up for the rest of the missing human history of the planet. But there is a scientific fact which allows me to prove that they are wrong. It has been posted throughout this thread, and not one single person chimed in to say, well, what about this?

The masonic god is known as Ja-Baal-On - how many movies adapt this to zeboulon?

Are you ready?

Yahweh, the christian name of god, existed before christianity. Before Moses. Before Jesus. 62.000 years ago in FACT. Created by (jewish)  freemasonry. Christianity is 2000 years old, not the rest of the planet's history. Ja of Ja-Baal-On is short for Yaweh. or yod hay, vau hay, proving Yaweh is jewish, Baal is cananite, (not jewish) and is viewed in the egyptian papyrus of the weighing of the soul by Anubis, (opener of the way) who weighs the soul while THOTH sit's ontop of the scales. See that half bull/crocodile? This is the devourer of souls, who required child sacrifice. The greeks have an almost identical image of the weighing of the heart. Of course, the names of the depicted character's in the greek version will be the greek gods. The point of 'On' - Osirius, is to remove the O. You now have Sirius. The short map I gave in earlier posts is nothing compared to the truth I know of. I Asked a question last night: Lets pretend for a moment that the sky above reflects that which is below, in this case, show me Earth above, without pointing to the ball you stand on..

A decent scientist may not be able to find proof of a particular thing, so then may ask those who have had similar problems, but overcome them. Those he asked, wrote their evidence in a book, then died before the decent scientist. The decent scientist reference's the deceased's writing's, considering them as proof. Well, for at least since they started 'praying' well before the pyramids were ever designed, they have acted out certain ritual's, with scientifically proven result's. Over and over again. So I say, if you want proof of god, start practising some of these magic 'spell's' for want of a better word, see if you get any results.. I personnaly prefer reading agrippa, due to the books being older than say john dee, but would never dream of practising - the art of magic.

Of couse God exists, only keep in mind, Jaweh is only ONE god, There are other's, like BAAL, the real question is, is who is subordinate to who?

They are ALL subordinate to the one no-one has or can ever name, for, as previously mentioned, THEN he has a life span. And hence can die.

Basically the only relevant consideration I have to offer after reading all of this is a follow-up to the beginning of this statement that you make:

So we're looking for Scientific proof of god are we? Let's attempt to cut to the chase...

Yes, let's cut to the chase.  I am *not* looking for scientific proof of god because it is *logically impossible* for there to be any based upon the incontrovertible statements I made in my previous post.

Beyond that, I have no words.  Sorry.

Then kindly remove yourself to the respective thread dealing with your empirical assumptions (bullshit), since this thread is clearly not for you or your questions, sorry..

[the joint]

The only reason the scientific method works is by first relying upon assumptions or premises which are independent of experience, i.e. non-empirical.  It is axiomatic via the scientific method that, by definition, it cannot explore the non-empirical, but only the empirical...which is exactly what I've been saying.

Actually, the very foundational reason that the scientific method can work is that God has stabilized the universe in such a way that things that work have understandable reason, pattern and repetition-of-process to them. If it weren't for this, the scientific method would be totally useless except when being used to prove itself to be totally useless.

...

Hmm.

"...understandable reason, pattern and repitition-of-process..." is what we call logic and that which is logical.  You're saying the same thing as I am, but you're just effectively saying that logic = God which is just completely unnecessary.

[Decksperiment]

The proof of god is the all seeing eye, now go get scientific proof of this all seeing diety..

Edit: Allow me, pmsl:

18th degree freemasonry, or Rosicrucian to be precise.

Cabalistically, 37 is equal to ESOTERIC wisdom, ie, that which we KNOW but CANNOT prove.

as 27 is equal to TRUTH REVEALED, being that which we can (scientifically) prove.

I rest my case.