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Author Topic: [Investment fund] Gamma Bitcoin Fund [Closed]  (Read 77806 times)
vokain
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October 02, 2012, 09:14:47 PM
 #501

hundreds of bitcoins "lost" later.....

I hope you all know that basically DeadTerra used you guys to fund his gambles with you guys taking all the risk and paying for it during the down weeks while he skimmed off the positive weeks. Cheers DeadTerra, congratulations.

...مكتوب
Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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October 02, 2012, 09:34:56 PM
 #502

hundreds of bitcoins "lost" later.....
Actually, he got screwed on a couple of investments. He put a lot of time and effort in, and things were actually going very well before all investments as a whole went bad. When that happened, he voluntarily forewent his share of the profits for a number of weeks. He's one of the few investors I know that actually operated the fund in a transparent and clear way, trying to do what was right for the investors.

Of course, you could have also invested in a less transparent venture, like pirate, or hashking, or whatever other investment that went total bankrupt…

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October 02, 2012, 09:54:02 PM
 #503

Gamma said he would process withdraws in the order they were received.  He should commit to this since I withdrew well before the closing of the fund.

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Bitcoin Oz
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October 02, 2012, 11:08:56 PM
 #504

hundreds of bitcoins "lost" later.....

I hope you all know that basically DeadTerra used you guys to fund his gambles with you guys taking all the risk and paying for it during the down weeks while he skimmed off the positive weeks. Cheers DeadTerra, congratulations.

Thats hardly fair. The entire deposit and securities market has collapsed and glbse is facing an SEC investigation. There is further loss of confidence because of other things going on with glbse as well. If you are only invested in mining people face losing 50% of their return with the block halving also so its better to buy in after that event, if at all.





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October 03, 2012, 01:08:13 AM
 #505

hundreds of bitcoins "lost" later.....

I hope you all know that basically DeadTerra used you guys to fund his gambles with you guys taking all the risk and paying for it during the down weeks while he skimmed off the positive weeks. Cheers DeadTerra, congratulations.

This way of fund management, regarding to transparency and communication, is way ahead of recent events. I loved to invest in GBF until some greedy, so called individuals teared a deep black hole into btc. Thanks for that, bitches.
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October 03, 2012, 03:39:23 AM
 #506

hundreds of bitcoins "lost" later.....

I hope you all know that basically DeadTerra used you guys to fund his gambles with you guys taking all the risk and paying for it during the down weeks while he skimmed off the positive weeks. Cheers DeadTerra, congratulations.

This way of fund management, regarding to transparency and communication, is way ahead of recent events. I loved to invest in GBF until some greedy, so called individuals teared a deep black hole into btc. Thanks for that, bitches.

DeadTerra went and invested in mybitcointrade even after I warned him that it was a complete scam. Even a small amount of due diligence would lead you to the assumption that it was either a ponzi or a stock generation type scam. This isnt fund management it is gambling with OPM.

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October 03, 2012, 04:48:24 AM
 #507

Gamma said he would process withdraws in the order they were received.  He should commit to this since I withdrew well before the closing of the fund.

Yes, I agree.

"The difference between a castle and a prison is only a question of who holds the keys."
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October 03, 2012, 06:10:04 AM
 #508

hundreds of bitcoins "lost" later.....

I hope you all know that basically DeadTerra used you guys to fund his gambles with you guys taking all the risk and paying for it during the down weeks while he skimmed off the positive weeks. Cheers DeadTerra, congratulations.
That's the down side of investing Bitcoins, it's hard to evaluate risks as you don't actually know the person behind the project or his/her intentions. Which makes it hard to do a profit/risk analysis and sometimes, things go wrong. I am sorry for this but to blame the massive default and security market crash on me seems a bit steep don't you think?
Gamma said he would process withdraws in the order they were received.  He should commit to this since I withdrew well before the closing of the fund.

Yes, I agree.
I am sorry but I can not honor that as the circumstances has changed. It would simply not be fair to the rest of I let a couple of individuals withdraw and let the rest of the investors sit stuck in the boat while we liquidate, you must see why that would not be fair?
Hence I would argue for that liquidation and proportionate payouts is the best and fairest way to solve this.

hundreds of bitcoins "lost" later.....

I hope you all know that basically DeadTerra used you guys to fund his gambles with you guys taking all the risk and paying for it during the down weeks while he skimmed off the positive weeks. Cheers DeadTerra, congratulations.

This way of fund management, regarding to transparency and communication, is way ahead of recent events. I loved to invest in GBF until some greedy, so called individuals teared a deep black hole into btc. Thanks for that, bitches.

DeadTerra went and invested in mybitcointrade even after I warned him that it was a complete scam. Even a small amount of due diligence would lead you to the assumption that it was either a ponzi or a stock generation type scam. This isnt fund management it is gambling with OPM.

I had a passport and I had private information, as well as some details of the operation. At that time (before all these defaults) it seemed like a reasonable investment, not low risk but reasonable. Though now I realize that it was naive to think like that and it was my mistake.
Part of why I have a transparent and open fund is for the investors to chip in and give me their opinions, it's easy to see scams in hindsight but not always so easy to identify them early on.

//DeaDTerra
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October 03, 2012, 06:16:00 AM
 #509

All private messages and emails will be answered properly tonight.
//DeaDTerra
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October 03, 2012, 07:13:46 AM
 #510

I had a passport and I had private information, as well as some details of the operation. At that time (before all these defaults) it seemed like a reasonable investment, not low risk but reasonable. Though now I realize that it was naive to think like that and it was my mistake.
Part of why I have a transparent and open fund is for the investors to chip in and give me their opinions, it's easy to see scams in hindsight but not always so easy to identify them early on.

//DeaDTerra
Mybitcointrade was one of the most obvious scams on the forums, and reading any intelligent poster's comments on it could have told you that.  You are lucky you got 600 of your coins out when you did.

Look at the assets DeadTerra has issued/run:
REBATE - Scam
ZIP.A - Scam
GIPPT - Insurers invested money to insure a scam in the same scam they were insuring, and are having trouble paying back the insurance
Gamma Bitcoin Fund - Invested in obvious scams

GSDPT is probably your first decent issue as it is backed by a reputable business.  Hopefully it will break the trend of scam pass throughs you have run.

Cryptocoin Mining Info | OTC | PGP | Twitter | freenode: dust-otc | BTC: 1F6fV4U2xnpAuKtmQD6BWpK3EuRosKzF8U
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October 03, 2012, 07:19:05 AM
 #511

I had a passport and I had private information, as well as some details of the operation. At that time (before all these defaults) it seemed like a reasonable investment, not low risk but reasonable. Though now I realize that it was naive to think like that and it was my mistake.
Part of why I have a transparent and open fund is for the investors to chip in and give me their opinions, it's easy to see scams in hindsight but not always so easy to identify them early on.

//DeaDTerra
Mybitcointrade was one of the most obvious scams on the forums, and and reading any intelligent poster's comments on it could have told you that.  You are lucky you got 600 of your coins out when you did.

Look at the assets DeadTerra has issued/run:
REBATE - Scam
ZIP.A - Scam
GIPPT - Insurers invested money to insure a scam in the same scam they were insuring, and are having trouble paying back the insurance
Gamma Bitcoin Fund - Invested in obvious scams

GSDPT is probably your first decent issue as it is backed by a reputable business.  Hopefully it will break the trend of scam pass throughs you have run.


I have a real issue with scammers using more respected members to sell their securities. Look how many people vouched for JRO and Pirate. Alberto Armandi being vouched for by Meni Rosenfeld. BFL hiring Inaba Huh

Its similar to buying an existing bitcoin service and then proceeding to steal all the coins.

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October 03, 2012, 08:39:34 AM
 #512

Quote
Gamma said he would process withdraws in the order they were received.  He should commit to this since I withdrew well before the closing of the fund.
Yes, I agree.
I am sorry but I can not honor that as the circumstances has changed. It would simply not be fair to the rest of I let a couple of individuals withdraw and let the rest of the investors sit stuck in the boat while we liquidate, you must see why that would not be fair?
Hence I would argue for that liquidation and proportionate payouts is the best and fairest way to solve this.

I would argue that how reasonable this is depends on the volume of withdrawals requested compared to the size of the fund. Are you able to provide these figures? Clearly if everyone withdrew, then proportional is the only way to go, whereas if withdrawals were a single bitcoin, that seems very unreasonable from the perspective of the withdrawer.

Full disclosure: I requested a withdrawal on the 24th of September.



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DeaDTerra
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October 03, 2012, 01:28:16 PM
 #513

I had a passport and I had private information, as well as some details of the operation. At that time (before all these defaults) it seemed like a reasonable investment, not low risk but reasonable. Though now I realize that it was naive to think like that and it was my mistake.
Part of why I have a transparent and open fund is for the investors to chip in and give me their opinions, it's easy to see scams in hindsight but not always so easy to identify them early on.

//DeaDTerra
Mybitcointrade was one of the most obvious scams on the forums, and reading any intelligent poster's comments on it could have told you that.  You are lucky you got 600 of your coins out when you did.

Look at the assets DeadTerra has issued/run:
REBATE - Scam
ZIP.A - Scam
GIPPT - Insurers invested money to insure a scam in the same scam they were insuring, and are having trouble paying back the insurance
Gamma Bitcoin Fund - Invested in obvious scams

GSDPT is probably your first decent issue as it is backed by a reputable business.  Hopefully it will break the trend of scam pass throughs you have run.
Please note that Rebate nor ZIP.A was issued or run by me. I was simply a link between the investors and the development crew/JRO, I stood for the PR and I was not responsible for the fuck ups behind the scene. Nor was I responsible for the bad decisions and the hacking that lead to the closing of ZIP.A or Rebate. I think it's unreasonable to put the blame of these projects on me.

As for GIPPT, I offered a service where I connected a insurer and investors that wanted that insurance. I never said pirate was legit nor did I say he was a scam. The deposits are being paid back but due to lies and cover ups from HK and a massive liquidation squeeze, the payouts are slow. Yet again this has nothing to do with me or me breaking a contract. I have never broken a contract which I have agreed to, I paid my part of GIPPT and the insurance was transparent and clear from the start.

I have seen you post and complain on every single asset on this forum, You seem to think you know so much yet you have not done anything to improve the situation. Please fuck off or do something constructive instead Smiley
//DeaDTerra
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October 03, 2012, 01:30:24 PM
 #514

Quote
Gamma said he would process withdraws in the order they were received.  He should commit to this since I withdrew well before the closing of the fund.
Yes, I agree.
I am sorry but I can not honor that as the circumstances has changed. It would simply not be fair to the rest of I let a couple of individuals withdraw and let the rest of the investors sit stuck in the boat while we liquidate, you must see why that would not be fair?
Hence I would argue for that liquidation and proportionate payouts is the best and fairest way to solve this.

I would argue that how reasonable this is depends on the volume of withdrawals requested compared to the size of the fund. Are you able to provide these figures? Clearly if everyone withdrew, then proportional is the only way to go, whereas if withdrawals were a single bitcoin, that seems very unreasonable from the perspective of the withdrawer.

Full disclosure: I requested a withdrawal on the 24th of September.



Of course right now the withdraw queue is a bit more then 1000 BTC which represent more then 1/7 of the fund.
Considering the size of these withdraws, it would be unfair to pay them out while denning the same right to the rest of the investors.
In my mind proportional payouts is what's most fair at this moment.
//DeaDTerra
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October 03, 2012, 11:07:13 PM
 #515

DeadTerra,

I have not put in a request for withdrawal, but it is not fair to those who have to strip them of their higher priority.

Months ago, I asked you to focus on the GBF instead of getting distracted by various IPOs.

You agreed (and thus I invested) back then, yet you then proceeded to waste your time and our bitcoins on various unrelated scammy/gimmicky nonsense projects.

You never updated the OP to reflect the recent negative returns.  You don't even update the google docs weekly. 

We now have no idea how many of our bitcoins you've lost!

Your constant excuses of "I'm too tired, I'm too busy, I'm too sick" are childish and unacceptable.

You have plenty of time for the latest shiny things that catch your attention, but not for your investment fund?  Again, not acceptable.

And now, despite owing your long-suffering investors 1000s of bitcoins, you are buying overpriced silver bullion from a Jr Member in another thread!

Am I the only one that finds such behavior galling?

I don't want to be payed back in drips and dribbles.  And I don't want to hear about how wonderful your intentions were.

Your actions are those of a con artist, especially the latest excuse of "circumstances have changed, so withdrawal requests are retroactively being dishonored."

The GBF should have been your highest, if not only, priority.  Instead you have been treating it (and us investors) as an afterthought, not worthy of FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY.

You seem to be completely unfamiliar with the concept, so here is an excellent, concise definition:

Quote
http://www.efmoody.com/arbitration/fiduciary.html

In the handling of money and when one acts as a corporate or individual trustee, there is a fiduciary responsibility owed to the principal party.

It is defined as a relationship imposed by law where someone has voluntarily agreed to act in the capacity of a "caretaker" of another's rights, assets and/or well being.

The fiduciary owes an obligation to carry out the responsibilities with the utmost degree of "good faith, honesty, integrity, loyalty and undivided service of the beneficiaries interest."

The good faith has been interpreted to impose an obligation to act reasonably in order to avoid negligent handling of the beneficiary's interests as well the duty not to favor ANYONE ELSE'S INTEREST (INCLUDING THE TRUSTEES OWN INTEREST) over that of the beneficiary.

Further, if the agent should find him/herself in a position of conflicting interests, the agent must disclose the dual agency (acting for two parties at the same time) or risk being accused of constructive fraud in regards to both or either principals. 

Good day, sir!

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

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October 04, 2012, 12:00:43 AM
 #516

DeadTerra

I agree with all of Icebreaker's points above.

I think you owe it to us, your trusting investors, who have stuck with you through the past weeks of continuous losses, to be more clear about what the actual situation is.

You should update and clean up the Fund assets and holdings spreadsheet so it accurately and clearly shows the position of the fund right now. And make a clear announcement that this is done and is the honest value of the fund right now.

I no longer trust you not to use, or lose, our GBF investments in your many other projects.

And I think you owe us a much clearer repayment plan. I think our patience and trust in you deserves much a better response than "I'm very sorry, I might pay you back something at some vague time in the future".

It is futile to speak of liberty as long as economic slavery exists.

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October 04, 2012, 02:40:04 AM
 #517

DeadTerra,

I have not put in a request for withdrawal, but it is not fair to those who have to strip them of their higher priority.

Thank you for your support iCEBREAKER.

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October 04, 2012, 02:54:51 AM
 #518


We now have no idea how many of our bitcoins you've lost!

That's actually in the log book. You just have to move the tab to the current week.
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October 04, 2012, 04:09:04 AM
 #519


We now have no idea how many of our bitcoins you've lost!

That's actually in the log book. You just have to move the tab to the current week.

The current week is actually not in the log book.  Last entry is for 9/28, actually.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
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October 04, 2012, 04:54:36 AM
 #520


We now have no idea how many of our bitcoins you've lost!

That's actually in the log book. You just have to move the tab to the current week.

The current week is actually not in the log book.  Last entry is for 9/28, actually.


Right, but you can tell how many Bitcoins roughly remain for the value based on the four day old information from the week that ended on the 30th.
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