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Author Topic: [Investment fund] Gamma Bitcoin Fund [Closed]  (Read 77872 times)
Newar
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March 05, 2013, 03:36:00 AM
 #761

Whilst I would not like to see them sold now, with the currrent hype (and glancing at the auctions forum and btct.co) we should be able to get more than 0.7.

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March 05, 2013, 03:55:25 AM
 #762

If you put them all up at 0.7, will they get 100% of any future dividends while they are waiting to be sold? And these dividends will, of course come back to GBF.

If that's the case, then I think it's a good idea to put them up for sale. I think it could be a while until they sell at that price.

But can you explain more clearly the "Supplemental dividend plan". What you have written on the Bitfunder profile isn't very clear.

What concerns me is that it seems like you will be getting an ASICMINER board seat and hence an ASIC mining unit, if I understand correctly, through selling off our GBF shares. Or am I wrong? Will this benefit GBF, or just you, or just holders of the G.ASICMINER-PT shares?

If you were to distribute our shares amongst GBF shareholders as G.ASICMINER-PT shares, wouldn't we then get any future ASICMINER dividends, plus the "Supplemental dividend", plus of course any profit if we wished to sell our own shares.

Wouldn't this be a much better deal for GBF shareholders?

+1 agreed.

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March 05, 2013, 07:24:10 AM
 #763

Here's another thought: With the Gigamining shares in recovery, I presume you will take the free Teramining upgrade path once BFL delivers. Teramining will be running for nine months. As Giga- and Teramining can not be sold or transferred, why don't we keep everything we got now and get the various dividends from each and dismantle when Teramining is closing. That'd be the least hassle for you as well.

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March 05, 2013, 06:18:25 PM
 #764

I would prefer not to hold anything for nine months, especially when its value is so high. With the recent uptick in BTC price, I would be for their sale if that is agreed upon.
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March 05, 2013, 07:20:54 PM
 #765

I have got some more information on ASICMINER and I have decided that the best option for now is to keep the shares and wait.
Cashing in dividends mean while.
As for gigamining, you can't sell the shares so there's no selling option there.
//DeaDTerra
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March 05, 2013, 09:18:20 PM
 #766

Thanks for the update Terra!

I just realized GBF is only 400 shares away from having a board seat and getting a trial ASICMINER mining board!!!!1!   Shocked

What can we do to make that happen?

Buy shares of G.ASICMINER-PT and transfer them, or what?

I'm in favor of reinvesting dividends until we get to 5,000 shares, and using cash too if needed. 

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
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The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

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DeaDTerra
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March 05, 2013, 09:21:24 PM
 #767

Thanks for the update Terra!

I just realized GBF is only 400 shares away from having a board seat and getting a trial ASICMINER mining board!!!!1!   Shocked

What can we do to make that happen?

Buy shares of G.ASICMINER-PT and transfer them, or what?

I'm in favor of reinvesting dividends until we get to 5,000 shares, and using cash too if needed. 
Yea Smiley,
I would be happy to host the board for the fund, and pay out any profit it makes until the fund has been paid back and finally closed.
What do you guys think of the idea of buying the 400 shares?
It would currently cost us about 280 BTC, we currently have 120 BTC from the ASICMINER dividend.
//DeaDTerra
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March 05, 2013, 09:47:50 PM
 #768

What kind of device it gonna be? Is it guaranteed to receive it after buying 5k shares? What's the hashrate?
We need to determine is it worth it or not.
You guys we're saying about selling ASICMINER. And look - we already cashed out 120 BTC dividends. Keep it going Smiley
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March 05, 2013, 10:07:12 PM
 #769

Thanks for the update Terra!

I just realized GBF is only 400 shares away from having a board seat and getting a trial ASICMINER mining board!!!!1!   Shocked

What can we do to make that happen?

Buy shares of G.ASICMINER-PT and transfer them, or what?

I'm in favor of reinvesting dividends until we get to 5,000 shares, and using cash too if needed. 
Yea Smiley,
I would be happy to host the board for the fund, and pay out any profit it makes until the fund has been paid back and finally closed.
What do you guys think of the idea of buying the 400 shares?
It would currently cost us about 280 BTC, we currently have 120 BTC from the ASICMINER dividend.
//DeaDTerra

Great plan. Let's buy those extra 400 shares.

How do we raise the extra needed BTC?

And as lenny asks, we should be sure that this ASIC unit is going to be worthwhile, and what we do with it once the fund is paid out and closed.

It is futile to speak of liberty as long as economic slavery exists.

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March 06, 2013, 01:34:06 AM
 #770

How do we raise the extra needed BTC?

That is an interesting question, how can it be done fairly for all holders. I think it might be impossible to ask for all share holders to pay in X btc equally.
Also unfair that others might be forced to contribute more to get it done, and not get fair compensation.

Can't really sell additional shares of the fund because then those shares would get unfair access to the other debts and decrease current shareholders value.

The only possible method I see, is if someone lent the fund the remaining 160ish needed btc to buy shares, and the fund agreed to pay them back with a set interest rate.

This would wipe out the 120btc currently in hand and create a debt of 160btc(+interest) for 400 more shares of AM and to be "given" a test board that has a hashrate of (??)mh at some later time not yet disclosed.

I think it would be hard to get people to agree to that though, at least in a high majority fashion. By doing this, it is actually almost like continuing the fund and less closure.

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GoWest
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March 06, 2013, 01:51:44 AM
 #771

The more this is discussed, the more I would prefer to just liquidate the assets (0.7 BTC/share or higher) and forget about mining. Let's take what we can get and move on.

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March 06, 2013, 02:02:53 AM
 #772

I would prefer not to purchase any more shares
keystroke
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March 06, 2013, 04:11:30 AM
 #773

The more this is discussed, the more I would prefer to just liquidate the assets (0.7 BTC/share or higher) and forget about mining. Let's take what we can get and move on.

Yea I would like to see this one closed up as soon as possible. It has been closing for too long. If we start mining that is a whole new set of risks and a huge management issue which we should not bear at this time. Let's keep it simple.

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March 06, 2013, 06:11:46 AM
 #774

As a side note, I think we should take advantage of the opportunity to liquidate at a high USD price while it presents itself later this month after ASIC shares pay out. By my math, we'll have around 1200BTC a month gained from these shares (at the current difficulty), and then selling them at 1BTC a share (I'd imagine they'll rise to this amount after they start paying out their dividends) would basically net us the remaining funds owed, and then anything else we recover can be used to be paid as "profit" to the shareholders.

Optionally, I think it would be reasonable to allow people to deduct what the fund owes them in exchange for shares being transferred. In that manner, both sides get what they want Smiley

It may be silly to be looking at this from USD standards, but I think it is fully realistic to take the possibility that the price could crash into account with the current market depth: http://bitcoin-analytics.com/

It's not Ludvig's job to worry about that, but, personally, I'd be happy with getting the money out Smiley If the depth increases, I won't worry about it.
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March 06, 2013, 06:52:12 AM
 #775

Buy the shares and reap what rewards we can.  We're not made whole, let's try for it.  The only place to go is up from here anyway...
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March 06, 2013, 07:08:45 AM
 #776

Okay raising more investment is probably not a good idea and it goes against the idea of closing the fund.
How about we take the shares to BF,
We can then get the dividends from the shares and the trial board?
Without having to invest more capital.

While some off you want to sell, I honestly think we can get more BTC (usd depends on the exchange rate), if we hold these shares for a bit longer.
According to friedcat,8 Thash will be up by the end of this week and hopefully the whole 10 Thash by next week.
Then by the end of march/early April the 50 Thash will start being connected.

BFL don't ship until mid March and this will only be 5000 chips.
Avalon don't ship until April.
Hence we will be able to fill that gap which could be very profitable.
//DeaDTerra
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March 06, 2013, 10:25:15 AM
 #777

Okay raising more investment is probably not a good idea and it goes against the idea of closing the fund.
How about we take the shares to BF,
We can then get the dividends from the shares and the trial board?
Without having to invest more capital.

While some off you want to sell, I honestly think we can get more BTC (usd depends on the exchange rate), if we hold these shares for a bit longer.
According to friedcat,8 Thash will be up by the end of this week and hopefully the whole 10 Thash by next week.
Then by the end of march/early April the 50 Thash will start being connected.

BFL don't ship until mid March and this will only be 5000 chips.
Avalon don't ship until April.
Hence we will be able to fill that gap which could be very profitable.
//DeaDTerra


I think this is the best suggestion so far. I suggest putting them up on Bitfunder at minimum 1 BTC each. Then we will get these probably very good dividends, or a nice profit if they sell.

But then there is still the question of who owns the trial ASIC unit when/if the fund is paid out.

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March 06, 2013, 11:50:19 AM
 #778

put the trial asic on bitmit.   Hash until it's sold.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
DeaDTerra
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March 06, 2013, 02:34:31 PM
 #779

Okay,
I have taken the decision to transfer them to the PT,
As there's no fee we get the full dividend, we also get the extra dividend from the trial board.
If there's a good opportunity I will sell them but for now I will keep them.
//DeaDTerra
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March 06, 2013, 02:43:32 PM
 #780

the trial asic? where can i get more info on this and why do you guys get one?
It was discussed with Friedcat, since the start of ASICMINER. Where we agreed that sending out a small trial board to the board members would be a nice thing to do and a way to show transparency so that they can prove the tech really exists etc.
I am not sure if there's any public records of this, but I have talked to Friedcat and he has confirmed it.
Anyone on the board will get one, or at least that's what I Friedcat said last time I talked to him.
//DeaDTerra
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