[XMR] Monero Speculation

[Big Naturals]

...
That said, I believe deepening the relationship between XMR and LTC would be super positive.  And for LTC to be able to claim to have performed both the first ever atomic swap AND the first ever atomic swap with a non BTC codebase crypto would be killer.  And I think the liquidity a LTC/XMR atomic connection would provide mixed with it's novelty would benefit both communities.

The first ever 'atomic cross-chain transaction' was between Burst and Qora on May 17, 2015. Extremely efficient implementation was used, based on this AT Turing complete smart contracts implementation (2014, before Ethereum):

Automated Transactions (AT) is a technology created by CIYAM Developers which provides "Turing complete smart contracts" for any blockchain that implements it (http://ciyam.org/at).

Recently the AT developers produced a Crowdfund application that only requires 25 machine code steps (which is ridiculously small) and that is running on a blockchain now (the Burst blockchain). This is the most efficient Crowdfund application in existence - not only is it incredibly efficient but it is also 100% decentralised!

Although we are having troubles with getting any attention (hopefully some smart marketing people will notice this project and consider contacting us) we have already achieved "two world firsts" which we intend to follow up with more ground breaking ATs (which are under development now).

#1 - The world's first completely decentralised Lottery (i.e. no website and no central control) was launched in January 2015.

#2 - The world's first completely decentralised Crowdfunding application (i.e. no website and no central control) was launched in February 2015.

A couple of great tools for those keen to develop their own ATs can be found here (thanks to @burstcoin):

https://github.com/BurstProject/ATAssembler
https://github.com/BurstProject/ATDebugger

The undisputed king of atomic swaps is jl777 (he did them in 2014) his BarterDEX has done well over 20K swaps now, most using spv tech so you don't even have to download any blockchains, and if users are prepared to time-lock a KMD deposit they can be 0-conf too. BarterDEX has already done test 'etomic' swaps between KMD and ETH even.

It's absolute BS that Charlie Lee claims any credit for doing a few manual swaps with LTC, eventually the word will get out about BarterDEX, and people will naturally ask "why did Charlie ignore BarterDEX for so long?"

Holders of assets like DEX have already been paid 2mil USD from fees so far, just from the test alpha stage.

[cAPSLOCK]

...
That said, I believe deepening the relationship between XMR and LTC would be super positive.  And for LTC to be able to claim to have performed both the first ever atomic swap AND the first ever atomic swap with a non BTC codebase crypto would be killer.  And I think the liquidity a LTC/XMR atomic connection would provide mixed with it's novelty would benefit both communities.

The first ever 'atomic cross-chain transaction' was between Burst and Qora on May 17, 2015. Extremely efficient implementation was used, based on this AT Turing complete smart contracts implementation (2014, before Ethereum):

Automated Transactions (AT) is a technology created by CIYAM Developers which provides "Turing complete smart contracts" for any blockchain that implements it (http://ciyam.org/at).

Recently the AT developers produced a Crowdfund application that only requires 25 machine code steps (which is ridiculously small) and that is running on a blockchain now (the Burst blockchain). This is the most efficient Crowdfund application in existence - not only is it incredibly efficient but it is also 100% decentralised!

Although we are having troubles with getting any attention (hopefully some smart marketing people will notice this project and consider contacting us) we have already achieved "two world firsts" which we intend to follow up with more ground breaking ATs (which are under development now).

#1 - The world's first completely decentralised Lottery (i.e. no website and no central control) was launched in January 2015.

#2 - The world's first completely decentralised Crowdfunding application (i.e. no website and no central control) was launched in February 2015.

A couple of great tools for those keen to develop their own ATs can be found here (thanks to @burstcoin):

https://github.com/BurstProject/ATAssembler
https://github.com/BurstProject/ATDebugger

The undisputed king of atomic swaps is jl777 (he did them in 2014) his BarterDEX has done well over 20K swaps now, most using spv tech so you don't even have to download any blockchains, and if users are prepared to time-lock a KMD deposit they can be 0-conf too. BarterDEX has already done test 'etomic' swaps between KMD and ETH even.

It's absolute BS that Charlie Lee claims any credit for doing a few manual swaps with LTC, eventually the word will get out about BarterDEX, and people will naturally ask "why did Charlie ignore BarterDEX for so long?"

Holders of assets like DEX have already been paid 2mil USD from fees so far, just from the test alpha stage.

Hmm, well I stand corrected one way or the other.  But the bigger take away from this conversation, in my opinion, is the fact that bitcoin maximalism is a thing. In fact it just about proves it. There's few who really care what all the little alt experiment chains are doing in the end. Bitcoin is going to devour everything but maybe a few others.  I happen to think monero may be one of those, but who knows? Maybe not even Monero...

Thoughts?

[Big Naturals]

But the bigger take away from this conversation, in my opinion, is the fact that bitcoin maximalism is a thing. In fact it just about proves it. There's few who really care what all the little alt experiment chains are doing in the end. Bitcoin is going to devour everything but maybe a few others.  I happen to think monero may be one of those, but who knows? Maybe not even Monero...

Thoughts?

I agree bitcoin maximalism is a powerful force, and probably only a few crypto will survive, but LTC probably wont be one of them imo, and while Charlie Lee was one of the early birds who 'got the worm' in crypto, he's not one of the top thinkers in 2018. I did respect him before, but lately he looks dodgy, and his refusal to engage with BarterDEX devs who approached him in good faith shows his true colors. He has a profile, and uses it to pump and dump his LTC bags. He's not interested in advancing tech.

The thing about jl777 is he doesn't care which crypto succeeds long-term, he's going to make BarterDEX compatible with every tech, even cryptonote like XMR. He doesn't care which ones get popular - he's the guy selling shovels and levi jeans to the miners. afaik adding XMR swap capabilities is on the agenda too.

Centralised exchanges are dangerous, decentralised exchanges like BarterDEX are 100% safe, so even if there's only 3 coins in 5 years (BTC, ETH, XMR), BarterDEX will have users.

[explorer]

The undisputed king of atomic swaps is jl777 (he did them in 2014) his BarterDEX has done well over 20K swaps now, most using spv tech so you don't even have to download any blockchains, and if users are prepared to time-lock a KMD deposit they can be 0-conf too. BarterDEX has already done test 'etomic' swaps between KMD and ETH even.

It's absolute BS that Charlie Lee claims any credit for doing a few manual swaps with LTC, eventually the word will get out about BarterDEX, and people will naturally ask "why did Charlie ignore BarterDEX for so long?"

Holders of assets like DEX have already been paid 2mil USD from fees so far, just from the test alpha stage.

That would be ~$100 in fees per swap.  What am I missing?

[Big Naturals]

The undisputed king of atomic swaps is jl777 (he did them in 2014) his BarterDEX has done well over 20K swaps now, most using spv tech so you don't even have to download any blockchains, and if users are prepared to time-lock a KMD deposit they can be 0-conf too. BarterDEX has already done test 'etomic' swaps between KMD and ETH even.

It's absolute BS that Charlie Lee claims any credit for doing a few manual swaps with LTC, eventually the word will get out about BarterDEX, and people will naturally ask "why did Charlie ignore BarterDEX for so long?"

Holders of assets like DEX have already been paid 2mil USD from fees so far, just from the test alpha stage.

That would be ~$100 in fees per swap.  What am I missing?

You probably need to look into the Komodo eco-system yourself to understand it fully (it's quite expansive, so complicated), and I don't want to derail this thread, plus I only know the basics myself.

BUT, in a nutshell there are three fees being collected (notary fees, BarterDEX fees, Jumblr fees), so far the largest is notary fees for 'delayed proof of work' (dPoW), which notarizes the KMD blockchain onto the BTC chain with periodic bitcoin transactions, which therefore, gives any assetchains created on komodo platform bitcoin level security themselves by extension (btc->KMD->assetchain).

The 2 mil USD paid last month was from notary fees collected since KMD started 12 months ago.

That's what the majority of bitcoins raised in the SuperNET ICO a few years back is being used for (i.e. paying notarising fees which are btc transactions). My understanding is when a Komodo notary makes a notary tx to bitcoin they also pay a fee in KMD that is accumulated and paid to various supernet asset holders, and in Dec 2017 those 'notary fees' amounted to 2 mil USD. There are 64 KMD notaries who were elected by KMD holders, elections every year.

The BarterDEX fees are accumulating, but still small, and jl777 says he will distribute when fees total 1mil USD from now on.

Then there are fees also for Jumbling service, which adds privacy to funds coming out of BarterDEX afaik

Honestly, you need to research SuperNET/BarterDEX/KMD yourself, it's complicated so takes time to get your head around it, but I'm convinced jl777 has a great product with BarterDEX and KMD. The vision is simple  - allow risk free trading of any crypto with 100% privacy, and eventually that'll include XMR.

[explorer]

The undisputed king of atomic swaps is jl777 (he did them in 2014) his BarterDEX has done well over 20K swaps now, most using spv tech so you don't even have to download any blockchains, and if users are prepared to time-lock a KMD deposit they can be 0-conf too. BarterDEX has already done test 'etomic' swaps between KMD and ETH even.

It's absolute BS that Charlie Lee claims any credit for doing a few manual swaps with LTC, eventually the word will get out about BarterDEX, and people will naturally ask "why did Charlie ignore BarterDEX for so long?"

Holders of assets like DEX have already been paid 2mil USD from fees so far, just from the test alpha stage.

That would be ~$100 in fees per swap.  What am I missing?

You probably need to look into the Komodo eco-system yourself to understand it fully (it's quite expansive, so complicated), and I don't want to derail this thread, plus I only know the basics myself.

BUT, in a nutshell there are three fees being collected (notary fees, BarterDEX fees, Jumblr fees), so far the largest is notary fees for 'delayed proof of work' (dPoW), which notarizes the KMD blockchain onto the BTC chain with periodic bitcoin transactions, which therefore, gives any assetchains created on komodo platform bitcoin level security themselves by extension (btc->KMD->assetchain).

The 2 mil USD paid last month was from notary fees collected since KMD started 12 months ago.

That's what the majority of bitcoins raised in the SuperNET ICO a few years back is being used for (i.e. paying notarising fees which are btc transactions). My understanding is when a Komodo notary makes a notary tx to bitcoin they also pay a fee in KMD that is accumulated and paid to various supernet asset holders, and in Dec 2017 those 'notary fees' amounted to 2 mil USD. There are 64 KMD notaries who were elected by KMD holders, elections every year.

The BarterDEX fees are accumulating, but still small, and jl777 says he will distribute when fees total 1mil USD from now on.

Then there are fees also for Jumbling service, which adds privacy to funds coming out of BarterDEX afaik

Honestly, you need to research SuperNET/BarterDEX/KMD yourself, it's complicated so takes time to get your head around it, but I'm convinced jl777 has a great product with BarterDEX and KMD. The vision is simple  - allow risk free trading of any crypto with 100% privacy, and eventually that'll include XMR.

Not interesting enough (to me) for me to put time into at this point, but thanks for the summary.

[acdc]

Honestly, you need to research SuperNET/BarterDEX/KMD yourself, it's complicated so takes time to get your head around it, but I'm convinced jl777 has a great product with BarterDEX and KMD. The vision is simple  - allow risk free trading of any crypto with 100% privacy, and eventually that'll include XMR.

Atomic swaps are fantastic, but BarterDEX isn't for regular users yet, it works on utxo level, and it's confusing to learn after years of using a centralised order books.

They're targeting the top 1% of high end users who want maximum privacy (no kyc), with no arbitrary limits, and 100% security.

If you're happy to do KYC selfies on regulated exchanges like polo & bittrex you wont ever use BarterDEX, it's a niche service.

[Millionero]

Pixel XL with CopperheadOS with microG is interesting now, Librem5 later.  Keep one phone as a crypto/wallet/banking/trading/2fa ghetto, with signal for comms, and a separate one for running various other apps, making calls and taking photos, whatever.  Different colors at least can help keep them straight.  It's a nice hot accessory for your cooler hardware wallet.  I find gps spoofers and orbot essential.  Mostly you need to develop habits which insure compartmentalization and protect against  exogenous linking metadata and endogenous info leakage between compartments .

Interesting.  I have a Nexus 5x and a Pixel XL, both of which are supported by copperhead os.   I might download copperhead and flash it on one of my phones one of these days.

[Big Naturals]

Atomic swaps are fantastic, but BarterDEX isn't for regular users yet, it works on utxo level, and it's confusing to learn after years of using a centralised order books.

They're targeting the top 1% of high end users who want maximum privacy (no kyc), with no arbitrary limits, and 100% security.

If you're happy to do KYC selfies on regulated exchanges like polo & bittrex you wont ever use BarterDEX, it's a niche service.

I would agree 100%, BarterDEX offers a niche product that's not easy to use yet, but for XMR hodlers who are privacy conscious it makes sense to use a privacy based exchange, if/when BarterDEX adds xmr support. Not much point using private xmr if the fiat exit/entry points are stockpiling user information, might as well use secure private exchanges too, especially if you're a whale. Until it's possible to use xmr for majority of day-to-day transactions, people need to use fiat, and noobies need to buy xmr in the first place, and with centralised exchanges needing to be kyc compliant, the safe option is using privacy oriented exchanges.

[Hueristic]

...
That said, I believe deepening the relationship between XMR and LTC would be super positive.  And for LTC to be able to claim to have performed both the first ever atomic swap AND the first ever atomic swap with a non BTC codebase crypto would be killer.  And I think the liquidity a LTC/XMR atomic connection would provide mixed with it's novelty would benefit both communities.

The first ever 'atomic cross-chain transaction' was between Burst and Qora on May 17, 2015. Extremely efficient implementation was used, based on this AT Turing complete smart contracts implementation (2014, before Ethereum):

Automated Transactions (AT) is a technology created by CIYAM Developers which provides "Turing complete smart contracts" for any blockchain that implements it (http://ciyam.org/at).

Recently the AT developers produced a Crowdfund application that only requires 25 machine code steps (which is ridiculously small) and that is running on a blockchain now (the Burst blockchain). This is the most efficient Crowdfund application in existence - not only is it incredibly efficient but it is also 100% decentralised!

Although we are having troubles with getting any attention (hopefully some smart marketing people will notice this project and consider contacting us) we have already achieved "two world firsts" which we intend to follow up with more ground breaking ATs (which are under development now).

#1 - The world's first completely decentralised Lottery (i.e. no website and no central control) was launched in January 2015.

#2 - The world's first completely decentralised Crowdfunding application (i.e. no website and no central control) was launched in February 2015.

A couple of great tools for those keen to develop their own ATs can be found here (thanks to @burstcoin):

https://github.com/BurstProject/ATAssembler
https://github.com/BurstProject/ATDebugger

W0w, that is impressive if true! But I find it very hard to believe knowing a little assembler myself which is a second level programming language while machine code is binary so getting anything done within 25 steps is a major feat in itself. For example just to swap 2 words take 3 clks and requires 3 registers for each bit of the word size. Albeit I haven't coded assembler since 1990 so my memory may be bad here and I think maybe your "machine code steps" and mine may have different definitions.

I do think I remember reading about this project back then and thought what a waste to be creating a lottery.

The undisputed king of atomic swaps is jl777 (he did them in 2014) his BarterDEX has done well over 20K swaps now, most using spv tech so you don't even have to download any blockchains, and if users are prepared to time-lock a KMD deposit they can be 0-conf too. BarterDEX has already done test 'etomic' swaps between KMD and ETH even.

It's absolute BS that Charlie Lee claims any credit for doing a few manual swaps with LTC, eventually the word will get out about BarterDEX, and people will naturally ask "why did Charlie ignore BarterDEX for so long?"

Holders of assets like DEX have already been paid 2mil USD from fees so far, just from the test alpha stage.

Isn't he the guy who put a bug in his zcoin and created coins and dumped them? Once again my memory may be off so correct me if wrong. I need to just add a memory disclaimer to my sig. :)P

Honestly, you need to research SuperNET/BarterDEX/KMD yourself, it's complicated so takes time to get your head around it, but I'm convinced jl777 has a great product with BarterDEX and KMD. The vision is simple  - allow risk free trading of any crypto with 100% privacy, and eventually that'll include XMR.

Atomic swaps are fantastic, but BarterDEX isn't for regular users yet, it works on utxo level, and it's confusing to learn after years of using a centralised order books.

They're targeting the top 1% of high end users who want maximum privacy (no kyc), with no arbitrary limits, and 100% security.

If you're happy to do KYC selfies on regulated exchanges like polo & bittrex you wont ever use BarterDEX, it's a niche service.

Well it's gonna be pretty tough to use Monero's utxo set! LMAO

But with that being said if this BarterDEX does manage to support Monero then let us know!

[acdc]

Isn't he the guy who put a bug in his zcoin and created coins and dumped them? Once again my memory may be off so correct me if wrong. I need to just add a memory disclaimer to my sig. :)P

jl777 has no connection with zcoin, KMD is based on Z-cash though (without the tax), so maybe that's what you remembered.

Well it's gonna be pretty tough to use Monero's utxo set! LMAO

But with that being said if this BarterDEX does manage to support Monero then let us know!

only bitcoin based coins use utxo method, other coins/tokens like ETH, ERC20 use different tech for swaps, developed by other members of komodo team now.

jl777 will get XMR swaps working if it's possible, if XMR community is serious about looking into atomic swaps then Charlie Lee is not the guy to work with.

Eventually BarterDEX will likely have atomic swaps working between all bitcoin based coins, ETH, ERC20, and XMR maybe too, Charlie Lee has done a handful of manual swaps (i.e. typing commands in manually), and isn't on the cutting edge, nowhere near it.

[Bitcoinaire]

So the thoughts of 2014 are over! 2018 is gonna be yyyuuuuge.

[Hueristic]

Isn't he the guy who put a bug in his zcoin and created coins and dumped them? Once again my memory may be off so correct me if wrong. I need to just add a memory disclaimer to my sig. :)P

jl777 has no connection with zcoin, KMD is based on Z-cash though (without the tax), so maybe that's what you remembered.

thats possible.

Well it's gonna be pretty tough to use Monero's utxo set! LMAO

But with that being said if this BarterDEX does manage to support Monero then let us know!

only bitcoin based coins use utxo method, other coins/tokens like ETH, ERC20 use different tech for swaps, developed by other members of komodo team now.

jl777 will get XMR swaps working if it's possible, if XMR community is serious about looking into atomic swaps then Charlie Lee is not the guy to work with.

Eventually BarterDEX will likely have atomic swaps working between all bitcoin based coins, ETH, ERC20, and XMR maybe too, Charlie Lee has done a handful of manual swaps (i.e. typing commands in manually), and isn't on the cutting edge, nowhere near it.

Yeah, thats why I was laughing.

[Febo]

So the thoughts of 2014 is over! 2018 is gonna be yyyuuuuge.

I dont think the possibility of 2018 to be new 2014 is over. I personally would love for Bitcoin to hang around $10k and Monero around $300 for next half year. Just so all those newcomers that joined crypto to make fast profit sell. and All other newcomers that joined crypto to learn something have time to actually learn something. And that they have some time to accumulate something before next leg up.

But this are just my hopes, nothing to do with reality.

[dvabit]

Monero transactional efficiency and privacy will give it a great value push in the long run. In fact, it is not hard to imagine Monero at $1000 as more people get to learn about its technological superiority over Bitcoin!

[Kinoman]

Monero transactional efficiency and privacy will give it a great value push in the long run. In fact, it is not hard to imagine Monero at $1000 as more people get to learn about its technological superiority over Bitcoin!

I am confident that Monero will reach the price of $ 1000 very soon. As soon as bitcoin goes up, then all alto coins will also start to grow. Now is a great time to buy this coin.

[canonsburg]

So the thoughts of 2014 is over! 2018 is gonna be yyyuuuuge.

I dont think the possibility of 2018 to be new 2014 is over. I personally would love for Bitcoin to hang around $10k and Monero around $300 for next half year. Just so all those newcomers that joined crypto to make fast profit sell. and All other newcomers that joined crypto to learn something have time to actually learn something. And that they have some time to accumulate something before next leg up.

But this are just my hopes, nothing to do with reality.

Seems like a good time to accumulate. How many others are accumulating?
I'm accumulating too but don't have that much to spend unfortunately.

[Hueristic]

So the thoughts of 2014 is over! 2018 is gonna be yyyuuuuge.

I dont think the possibility of 2018 to be new 2014 is over. I personally would love for Bitcoin to hang around $10k and Monero around $300 for next half year. Just so all those newcomers that joined crypto to make fast profit sell. and All other newcomers that joined crypto to learn something have time to actually learn something. And that they have some time to accumulate something before next leg up.

But this are just my hopes, nothing to do with reality.

damn image not showing.

http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/5a21d1d6f914c347018b774d-1190-625/what-dilly-dilly-means--and-how-bud-light-came-up-with-its-viral-campaign.jpg

[Anon136]

So the thoughts of 2014 is over! 2018 is gonna be yyyuuuuge.

I dont think the possibility of 2018 to be new 2014 is over. I personally would love for Bitcoin to hang around $10k and Monero around $300 for next half year. Just so all those newcomers that joined crypto to make fast profit sell. and All other newcomers that joined crypto to learn something have time to actually learn something. And that they have some time to accumulate something before next leg up.

But this are just my hopes, nothing to do with reality.

Seems like a good time to accumulate. How many others are accumulating?
I'm accumulating too but don't have that much to spend unfortunately.

Yep I'm back in the market and it feels good. Taking some profits from another successful venture and plowing them into monero.

[KiXiNiT]

Doesn't sound like Bullet Proofs are coming in the next hardfork, having to wait until what.. September? Basically a life time in crypto.

With how much transaction sizes and fees being the hot topic in crypto currencys this is pretty big blow to Monero in what was looking to be a pretty positive Q1-Q2 for it.