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Author Topic: [ANN] Syscoin- FINAL 2.0 LAUNCHED! *ENCRYPTION, MARKETPLACE, BTC INTEGRATION*  (Read 582127 times)
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neurorit
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September 02, 2014, 03:28:45 PM
 #561

Well I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed no one, especially one of the devs here, took any time to look at an innovative solution to the current imbalance of merge mining that I attempted to share with this community.

I've studied these markets as well as their participants enough to notice obvious cognitive biases, and that's exactly what I'm witnessing in this thread. We have a number of users here claiming merge mining won't bring the price down. Well, where's the evidence of that? Every coin that has implemented auxPoW suffers from the same dilemma of having greater network hashrate at the cost of downward sell pressure.

Now whether this is a result of people mining Sys as a byproduct, spending no extra energy or effort on their part, then cashing in on that "free lunch" or if it's actually a matter of perception, is debatable. In the end it doesn't really matter why since the simple fact remains that history has shown that auxPoW coins constantly get dumped on the market, and it's lacking foresight on behalf of the developers to ignore this fact.

Moreover, the notion that auxPoW is about securing the network for future usage and spreading the hash around is misguided. auxPoW in itself doesn't ensure decentralization. In fact, if only a small number of large pools are merge mining an auxPoW coin it still leaves the network open to attack vectors such as selfish mining or even 51% attacks.

Personally, as I've already mentioned, I am impressed with Syscoin's functionality. Nevertheless, I feel the manner in which the blockchain is presently being secured leaves a lot to be desired. Multi vPoW addresses all of the issues that comes with an auxPoW blockchain. It actually provides a framework to create a productive balance with merge mining as well as creating a more decentralized and robust network while securing the network for future usage so that the coin can survive longterm.

While I am impressed with many aspects of what Syscoin is aiming to accomplish, I won't be conducting any business on this blockchain with how it is presently being secured.

I implore you to take 5 minutes and actually read this write up, then tell me multi vPoW doesn't make perfect sense for Syscoin.

Quote
Merged-mining’s Current Imbalance

With “mono-proof-of-work” (mono-PoW) coins like Litecoin and Dogecoin that utilize one algorithm (Scrypt) to solve blocks, there is no obvious way to balance blockchain security (i.e. Litecoin’s larger network hashrate) with the inevitable selling pressure that is to follow (i.e. Litecoin miners dumping their “free” dogecoins for BTC/LTC). Even the perceived imbalance is enough to damage the child coin’s value; if Litecoin miners do not sell their dogecoins at the rate that the market anticipates, the market will still react as if the dumping is occurring at that higher rate. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy where one coin is placed a metaphorical pedestal above the other. Luckily, with the emergence of Myriadcoin’s “multi-proof-of-work” system (multi-PoW), a healthy partnership can be constructed between the two coins.

Multi-vPoW: A Symbiotic Solution

Here, I will propose a solution to the imbalance (and the subsequent low popularity) of merged-mining: multi-varying proof-of-work block rewards (multi-vPoW). [Note: There may be a better way to name this.]
Myriadcoin’s upcoming PolyMYR project, a merge-mining and auto-exchanging pool, will double as a cryptocurrency laboratory where the multi-vPoW solution can be rigorously researched and tested. To understand the solution best it requires a brief recap of how a multi-PoW system like Myriadcoin works. Myriadcoin has 5 algorithms (SHA256d, Scrypt, Skein, Qubit, and Myriad-Groestl) that can independently solve blocks. They have independent difficulties that are adjusted using the same formula. Any algorithm can solve the next block even if it is the same algorithm. Each algorithm targets the same block time and the block rewards are the same no matter which algorithm solves the block.

The multi-vPoW solution involves adjusting block rewards based on which algorithm finds the block. With Myriad as a parent multi-PoW, the child coin can become a multi-PoW (if it isn’t already) that selects a few algorithms that are merged-mined by parent Myriad algorithms and an algorithm(s) that is not merge-mined (creating a degree of overlap). The merge-mined algorithms would be programmed to have lower block rewards than the non merge-mined algorithm(s). This immediately creates many variables (number of merge-mine algorithms, number of non-merge-mine algorithms, block rewards, etc.) that can be tinkered with to create a proper balance of give and take.

For example, a developer wants to start a new X11 coin but is worried that a competitive and saturated altcoin mining arena may leave the coin prone to 51% attacks for lengthy periods of time early on. The developer wants guaranteed network security from the moment it launches so they decide to launch it as a multi-PoW with 5 algorithms: SHA256d, Scrypt, Skein, Myriad-Groestl, and X11. Merge-mining is enabled on the 4 algorithms it shares in common with Myriad (SHA256d, Scrypt, Skein, and Myriad-Groestl) while the X11 algorithm is devoid of the auxPoW merge-mining code. The 4 merge-mine algorithms could then be designed with block rewards of say, 25, while the block reward for X11 is 200. This would create a 25-to-200 ratio for the block rewards. Or maybe the ratio would be set to 40/200 or 10/200. Whatever the ratio may be, the bottom line is that Myriadcoin miners are paid for their contributions to the network security of the new coin in a manner that is not detrimental to the long-term value of the coin. So long as there is a fairly-balanced block reward design, Myriad miners should not have reason to complain about lesser block rewards because the child coins are ultimately “free lunch”. At the same time, the developer should not deprive merge-mined algorithms of block rewards altogether or else the merge-mining symbiosis becomes parasitic against the parent coin and the child coin would be dealt with naturally by the free market. It’s a matter of mutual respect that eliminates any real or perceived damage to either coin in the merge-mining partnership.





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September 02, 2014, 03:34:44 PM
 #562

@neurorit Interesting, nice post. Thing to think about...

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neurorit
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September 02, 2014, 03:36:51 PM
 #563

Interesting, nice post. Thing to think about...

Implementing multi-vPoW could be as simple as keeping the scrypt merge mined but lowering the block rewards for that algorithm, then adding one or two more obscure algorithms, such as neoscrypt or x11 it doesn't really matter what type of PoW, and having those algorithms have normal block rewards.
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September 02, 2014, 03:42:35 PM
 #564

i agree. the devs are removing constructive critism and pretend it never exist. but it does even if they delete.
WE NEED twiter promoters.. IMO! and dev need stop delete posts. they delete this post from me:
"delete fud wont make go away.... better to try and do better is the only way to silence them... u spend to much time here to litle on code or hire ppl f or code and arketing.."
AND I SAY NOTHING WRONG! i only mean we need marketing and hire people with monies, instead of stay in thread and delete all post. make smtj good instead fud. u are only agravate me now, you listen commenuty?

We have said multiple times that we will delete crap to keep the thread clean. From the OP "Please note: this is a moderated post. Any replies that resort to name calling, unnecessary use of large fonts/color or posting of misinformation will be deleted. Repeat violators will be reported to forum admins."
That includes quoting crap which it was. There is nothing constructive about replying with "bla bla bla" . So no I wont stop moderating FUD and crap posts.
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September 02, 2014, 03:44:17 PM
 #565

I've seen that article before (the one you previously referenced) and it bases itself on opinion of the author as well as assumptions the author has made, which are not substantiated within the article or anywhere else that I can find.

Due to the above, I decided to withhold my reflex-reply out of courtesy to you and your point of view.

I am very familiar with Myriad (I like it very much), and read as many articles related to Myriad as I can find. I have also done my own due diligence in regard to merge mining.

The issue of merge mining in relation to the trend of coin prices can not be proven. Yet, one can observe that the price of most coins decreases during the months of July and especially August (use charts such as bitcoinwisdom and change the scaling to show a longer time-frame). It has been speculated that this is due to people cashing in to buy school supplies for their kids and pay tuitions for the college bound (among other things).

Also, since your pitch looks like you are spamming to promote a coin that has no relation to Sys, you shouldn't be surprised that you were overlooked.

Well I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed no one, especially one of the devs here, took any time to look at an innovative solution to the current imbalance of merge mining that I attempted to share with this community.

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
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September 02, 2014, 03:50:49 PM
 #566

I've held loyally for a long time and helped where possible, but I just sold... I'm not seeing anything that makes me think positively at all about the team. The tech's great, but the professionalism is purely nonexistent. Sorry guys, too much Sad
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September 02, 2014, 03:54:13 PM
 #567

I've seen that article before (the one you previously referenced) and it bases itself on opinion of the author as well as assumptions the author has made, which are not substantiated within the article or anywhere else that I can find.

Due to the above, I decided to withhold my reflex-reply out of courtesy to you and your point of view.

I am very familiar with Myriad (I like it very much), and read as many articles related to Myriad as I can find. I have also done my own due diligence in regard to merge mining.

The issue of merge mining in relation to the trend of coin prices can not be proven. Yet, one can observe that the price of most coins decreases during the months of July and especially August (use charts such as bitcoinwisdom and change the scaling to show a longer time-frame). It has been speculated that this is due to people cashing in to buy school supplies for their kids and pay tuitions for the college bound (among other things).

Also, since your pitch looks like you are spamming to promote a coin that has no relation to Sys, you shouldn't be surprised that you were overlooked.

Well I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed no one, especially one of the devs here, took any time to look at an innovative solution to the current imbalance of merge mining that I attempted to share with this community.

Well a Myriad dev came up with the idea, but that doesn't mean you have to use Myriad's platform to implement it. Especially if you have scrypt as the merge mined algorithm. That would allow any scrpyt coin to add hash to the Sys network.

While it is true that a correlation between price decrease and auxPoW can't be proven, it is true that that is the general perceptions which is just as important in terms of price. Price is largely based on perception.

Even if we remove the downward selling pressure argument from this discussion, multi-vPoW seems to me to be superior in terms of security and decentralization when compared to a mono AuxPoW blockchain. That alone seems to add value to Syscoin.

Anyway, I apologize for coming off as spammy. That was not my intent. I'm only trying to help.
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September 02, 2014, 03:56:00 PM
 #568

You honestly cant win.. One portion wants a clean thread (Got tons of PM's about this). And then you have people who just wants to fill up the thread with random noise.
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September 02, 2014, 03:57:49 PM
 #569

I've seen that article before (the one you previously referenced) and it bases itself on opinion of the author as well as assumptions the author has made, which are not substantiated within the article or anywhere else that I can find.

Due to the above, I decided to withhold my reflex-reply out of courtesy to you and your point of view.

I am very familiar with Myriad (I like it very much), and read as many articles related to Myriad as I can find. I have also done my own due diligence in regard to merge mining.

The issue of merge mining in relation to the trend of coin prices can not be proven. Yet, one can observe that the price of most coins decreases during the months of July and especially August (use charts such as bitcoinwisdom and change the scaling to show a longer time-frame). It has been speculated that this is due to people cashing in to buy school supplies for their kids and pay tuitions for the college bound (among other things).

Also, since your pitch looks like you are spamming to promote a coin that has no relation to Sys, you shouldn't be surprised that you were overlooked.

Well I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed no one, especially one of the devs here, took any time to look at an innovative solution to the current imbalance of merge mining that I attempted to share with this community.

Well a Myriad dev came up with the idea, but that doesn't mean you have to use Myriad's platform to implement it. Especially if you have scrypt as the merge mined algorithm. That would allow any scrpyt coin to add hash to the Sys network.

While it is true that a correlation between price decrease and auxPoW can't be proven, it is true that that is the general perceptions which is just as important in terms of price. Price is largely based on perception.

Even if we remove the downward selling pressure argument from this discussion, multi-vPoW seems to me to be superior in terms of security and decentralization when compared to a mono AuxPoW blockchain. That alone seems to add value to Syscoin.

Anyway, I apologize for coming off as spammy. That was not my intent. I'm only trying to help.

It is a valid enough point and I would not consider it spammy. We are open to any suggestions/ideas and it is something we will have a chat about.
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September 02, 2014, 03:58:46 PM
 #570

I've held loyally for a long time and helped where possible, but I just sold... I'm not seeing anything that makes me think positively at all about the team. The tech's great, but the professionalism is purely nonexistent. Sorry guys, too much Sad

Yep and marketing that tech takes time and planning as we've stated multiple times is happening. No other coin has these problems because no other coins have real features to market like this. We are deleting posts that just continue to say the same thing over and over to which we're replied (over and over). People looking for real information have asked us to keep this thread clean and focused on what is going on and that is what we're doing. Your repeatedly posting the same thing about PR doesn't accomplish anything nor provide any more info to people looking for it- actually it does the opposite- burying my reply stating what we are doing in a litany of duplicate posts.

We have already clarified several times there are plans for focused PR and development campaigns around each service. We realize some people don't care about network instability but as a product team we do. Now that the network is stable, we can focus on the forward moving PR items. Please note I have said we are ramping up PR several times now and there will be more news on this tonight.

Syscoin: Business on the Blockchain. - Buy and sell goods and services, send encrypted messages and more all secured by the blockchain.
Syscoin Website | Syscoin Whitepaper | Syscoin Team Price Peg
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September 02, 2014, 04:00:08 PM
Last edit: September 02, 2014, 04:11:40 PM by danosphere
 #571

I've seen that article before (the one you previously referenced) and it bases itself on opinion of the author as well as assumptions the author has made, which are not substantiated within the article or anywhere else that I can find.

Due to the above, I decided to withhold my reflex-reply out of courtesy to you and your point of view.

I am very familiar with Myriad (I like it very much), and read as many articles related to Myriad as I can find. I have also done my own due diligence in regard to merge mining.

The issue of merge mining in relation to the trend of coin prices can not be proven. Yet, one can observe that the price of most coins decreases during the months of July and especially August (use charts such as bitcoinwisdom and change the scaling to show a longer time-frame). It has been speculated that this is due to people cashing in to buy school supplies for their kids and pay tuitions for the college bound (among other things).

Also, since your pitch looks like you are spamming to promote a coin that has no relation to Sys, you shouldn't be surprised that you were overlooked.

Well I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed no one, especially one of the devs here, took any time to look at an innovative solution to the current imbalance of merge mining that I attempted to share with this community.

Well a Myriad dev came up with the idea, but that doesn't mean you have to use Myriad's platform to implement it. Especially if you have scrypt as the merge mined algorithm. That would allow any scrpyt coin to add hash to the Sys network.

While it is true that a correlation between price decrease and auxPoW can't be proven, it is true that that is the general perceptions which is just as important in terms of price. Price is largely based on perception.

Even if we remove the downward selling pressure argument from this discussion, multi-vPoW seems to me to be superior in terms of security and decentralization when compared to a mono AuxPoW blockchain. That alone seems to add value to Syscoin.

Anyway, I apologize for coming off as spammy. That was not my intent. I'm only trying to help.

It is a valid enough point and I would not consider it spammy. We are open to any suggestions/ideas and it is something we will have a chat about.

Def not spam and a valid point. Will be reviewing this and thanks for some useful input.

Syscoin: Business on the Blockchain. - Buy and sell goods and services, send encrypted messages and more all secured by the blockchain.
Syscoin Website | Syscoin Whitepaper | Syscoin Team Price Peg
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September 02, 2014, 04:03:22 PM
 #572

You repeatedly posting the same thing about PR

I haven't. I've been supporting you for a long time. Listen to your investors more. Done with you.
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September 02, 2014, 04:12:33 PM
 #573

I'm not sure I am reading you correctly - if you are trying to say Myriad came up with the idea of merged mining, you are mistaken. Merged mining has been going on since before Myriad existed.

Well a Myriad dev came up with the idea, but that doesn't mean you have to use Myriad's platform to implement it.


Well, I do see this as a positive thing.

Quote
Especially if you have scrypt as the merge mined algorithm. That would allow any scrpyt coin to add hash to the Sys network.


Consider that Sys hasn't been around long enough for anyone to have a sufficient data sample for establishing any possible price connection with merged mining. I could say the same for most of the other coins that are merge mined. Just not a large enough sample for establishing any trend analysis.

Quote
While it is true that a correlation between price decrease and auxPoW can't be proven,


That pretty much applies to the weak minded, weak handed, and those with short attention span. It does not apply to people who invest for the mid to long term with appreciable amounts of capital. Day traders are not the same thing as investors. Day traders are subject to FUD campaigns and basing their buys and sells on Twitter influenced perception. The big money pretty much knows to ignore all of that.

Quote
... it is true that that is the general perceptions which is just as important in terms of price. Price is largely based on perception.


Perhaps I wasn't careful enough with my choice of wording. I don't accuse you of spamming. If I came across that way, I owe you an apology for being careless with my verbiage.

What I meant to convey is that there are many here who think 5 words is TL:DR and only skim the very most recent post instead of reading the earlier submissions in the thread or bothering to read the entire contents of ANY post. Those people would see that your format and the length fit a good comparison to the formatting of spam posts and would therefore make an incorrect assumption about your post - without actually reading it to see what it even contained. As you said earlier, perception matters.

Consider it constructive criticism, not a put-down. Preview your longer posts before submitting. If it looks like spam, change the format.

Quote
Anyway, I apologize for coming off as spammy. That was not my intent. I'm only trying to help.

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
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September 02, 2014, 04:17:02 PM
 #574

You repeatedly posting the same thing about PR

I haven't. I've been supporting you for a long time. Listen to your investors more. Done with you.

Syscoin is not some clone with a roadmap. Its a coin with completed features that yes- require proper marketing. This takes planning before barreling into and the community is well aware of the initial launch issues which we HAD to resolved before starting a real marketing effort. Why would we start a serious marketing effort when everything wasn't working correctly?

Now that things are all working 100% marketing will kick on very hard- but in a planned way. We can't just market this like other coins where we talk a lot about the features we are GOING to make- we need to do this entirely differently where we market and DEMO the features we already have. This takes planning and a different approach than other clone coins with vaporware roadmaps. Some presale buyers aren't comfortable waiting for this to be done right or feel that is the wrong way to go about things. We do listen to the majority voice of the community and this strategy is in line with their requests.

If people feel we are deleting posts that should remain we welcome you to start a new thread (or add to that other one that was started...) where your posts can be free from our deletions and won't bury actual news. You can even leave a link here and we won't remove it, but we won't continue to let this thread turn into a new version of the old thread. This is about features and plans- questions we have NOT already answered and we have answered the PR/Marketing questions several times.

Syscoin: Business on the Blockchain. - Buy and sell goods and services, send encrypted messages and more all secured by the blockchain.
Syscoin Website | Syscoin Whitepaper | Syscoin Team Price Peg
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September 02, 2014, 04:21:06 PM
 #575

I need to add
# is there a full-time dev working on this project? for 1500 btc there should be at least one, because it still looks like some hobby coin full of
ambition but lack of improvement

yes but we need marketing around feature specific advantages. Not more dev (at the moment).

# i tried all wallet versions already but none of them worked on win8, and also my wallet got corrupted with nice bunch of coins, i'm still patient and try to not push and can wait for stable wallet version but this is already getting funny...no working wallet

Please contact us. No one else has reported such issues on the 0.1.4c wallet. Please PM or reach out to us on IRC, we're always around.

what date have you started to code the wallet? few months ago?

Well over 6months ago. Wallet and QT UI are 2 very different things, I think you're referring to QT here?

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September 02, 2014, 04:22:05 PM
 #576

I'm not sure I am reading you correctly - if you are trying to say Myriad came up with the idea of merged mining, you are mistaken. Merged mining has been going on since before Myriad existed.

Well a Myriad dev came up with the idea, but that doesn't mean you have to use Myriad's platform to implement it.

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I meant that neuroMode from Myriad came up with the idea of block tipping (mutli-vPoW is the temporary name) not merge mining itself.


Anyway, I get what you're saying about too long to read. I tend to do that when expressing myself on these forums. Either way, I'm glad I got your guys' attention about this as I feel this concept would compliment what you guys' have already accomplished in terms of functionality. Decentralization is really important and any way that it can be increased/ensured is a win in my book.
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September 02, 2014, 04:22:11 PM
 #577

This looks like a nice coin maybe ill try mining it.



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.BITVEST DICE.
HAS BEEN RELEASED!


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Rainbot
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neurorit
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September 02, 2014, 04:27:31 PM
 #578

This looks like a nice coin maybe ill try mining it.

If you want to mine it I recommend mining on one of Myriad's p2pool's. The scypt p2pools are presently merge mining Sys along with 4 other  auxPoW coins, so you get a lot more bang for your hash rate. I'm presently getting about 25-40% more revenue a day w/ my scrypt rigs than other scrypt pools. 

http://myriad.p2pool.geek.nz/merge
Momimaus
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September 02, 2014, 04:34:42 PM
Last edit: September 02, 2014, 07:54:13 PM by Momimaus
 #579


Hey users. If you want talk without getting deleted come here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=767188.0

CoinTracking.info - Your personal Profit / Loss Portfolio Monitor and Tax Tool for all Digital Coins
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danosphere
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September 02, 2014, 04:39:32 PM
 #580

Hey users. If you want talk without getting deleted come here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=757255.new#new

No problem at all with that.. Check the link though, its just linking here.

Syscoin: Business on the Blockchain. - Buy and sell goods and services, send encrypted messages and more all secured by the blockchain.
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