Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[goozman96]

I would say that we can not hold anything against BA as of yet.  They are in no way obligated to make any posts regarding where they are at on the timeline of completion of their product.  We are not shareholders or owners of the company in anyway.

That being said, I understand your and everyone else's sentiments about wanting to hear production updates, as I have put a lot of money out there myself on their pre orders and would like updates and will continue to ask for them.  But if they do not give them to me, I do not think it is fair to hodl it against them.  When I entered into a contract with them for the units that I ordered, it did not say anywhere that they had to provide me with any kind of information, only the finished product by a certain date, and you, as well as me, agreed to this.  If we miss that date, then by all means jump on them and bring about anything necessary to be fairly compensated, but until that happens they have no more obligation to you as they do to any US regulatory body.

In recap - They, nor any other company, has to provide production updates or really any updates for that matter, as long as they receive their product as specified.  Of course it is completely your option to purchase from them in the future, but if they meet their deadline I for one will jump in again with an even larger order, regardless of updates given.  So to say you will never purchase from them again I believe is pretty premature, as I would be willing to bet that you would given the opportunity and they come through.

Trust me, I am all for being given updates and would love to hear how the production process is coming along, but we are a community of immature whiners, who cannot wait for deadlines to pass judgement and make flaming remarks, even though, as far as we know, the company could be on track or ahead of schedule as has been remarked several times.

Yeah, they're not obligated to do so. Just the same, I'm not obligated to be a repeat customer if this is how they conduct business. It's the free market and I see others doing a better job in keeping their customers informed.
The lack of updates, to me, only points towards bad things (ie. behind schedule), considering they were more than happy to offer updates when they were "ahead of schedule". Even BA-Matt hasn't been able to get us an update for over 5 days now.
Like I said, the only way I'd consider buying from them again is if 1. they ship on time and 2. offer incentives for previous customers. Otherwise, I see more value in Cointerra, for example, and appreciate their transparency.
Another reason why I'm miffed is because my minersource order has been marked as "cancelled" even though I've paid. The excuse I'm given is "it's in the old database and it may be inaccurate" and to "wait until it's transferred to the new platform". Well I've been waiting and it's not fair to ask someone to just stick around in limbo while their order is marked as cancelled. It still doesn't explain why it's marked as cancelled.

[DebitMe]

I am not attacking anyone or pushing for someone to later throw something in my face.  The fact of the matter is that I do not know either, but attacking each other helps nothing.  No one says you have to be a repeat customer, your absolutely right, and you can make that choice when the time comes, but for now all we can really do is sit tight.

I am sorry to hear about your order troubles, I would pester Bobsag about that one as it is his site and this isn't really his thread, although he comes to help out now and again.

I hope that they do ship on time and agree with everyone that an update would be nice, but writing angry messages on these boards does not seem to be working as it hasn't hastened any kind of update so far.

Syke, all that post tells me is you would rather hate on the other people here instead of going after the company that has screwed you by that time.  I personally do not think that is healthy, but no skin off my back.   Unless your just trying to warn newbies and help them make a more informed decision, in which case I apologize and say good job.

[goozman96]

I am not attacking anyone or pushing for someone to later throw something in my face.  The fact of the matter is that I do not know either, but attacking each other helps nothing.  No one says you have to be a repeat customer, your absolutely right, and you can make that choice when the time comes, but for now all we can really do is sit tight.

I am sorry to hear about your order troubles, I would pester Bobsag about that one as it is his site and this isn't really his thread, although he comes to help out now and again.

I hope that they do ship on time and agree with everyone that an update would be nice, but writing angry messages on these boards does not seem to be working as it hasn't hastened any kind of update so far.

Syke, all that post tells me is you would rather hate on the other people here instead of going after the company that has screwed you by that time.  I personally do not think that is healthy, but no skin off my back.   Unless your just trying to warn newbies and help them make a more informed decision, in which case I apologize and say good job.

I hope you didn't perceive me as attacking you or anyone else. Not my intention whatsoever. Bobsag3 is well aware of my situation and I've had many emails back and forth with him. All I can do is wait until the database is transferred to the new platform, which was supposed to be done "soon" 5 days ago. -_-

[goozman96]

Ha, you all should see Alpha Technology updates. They would put Cointerra releases to shame.

I do.. I'm subscribed to their emails. *sigh*

[goozman96]

On a possible fun note... The site is offline right now. Hopefully for an update? Regardless I have to agree with the statements that they are not obligated to provide detailed updates. Still it would be nice to know if they still anticipate Feb 24 as "the date." However nothing has happened to make me think otherwise. All this worry from people is self manufactured stress at this point in time. People are throwing in Cointerra as proof of this or that but in all reality Cointerra's production time frames really have no indication as to what we should expect from Black Arrow. I will just hang in and pass final judgement on Black Arrow on their ability to deliver the product they are building. 

Well when we get absolutely nothing from Blackarrow, then we're left to clutch at any straws we see to try to help paint a picture. For me, at least.

[DebitMe]

Hurrah, Wyoming Time!

[goozman96]

Where is this coming from? I don't see anything posted on their forums or their website. Not that I don't believe you - I'm not the least bit surprised - but what's the source?

[goozman96]

So that means they lied to us when they said that they had their final specs on Jan 3.
Also.. why wouldn't they at least provide the option of shipping on-time but with the 1.5W/GH? Some people have free electricity and don't give a fuck!

[goozman96]

Also, if they've just now taped out, shouldn't it take 49 days (considering Cointerra) to make it to production? It should be done by late March..This makes no sense..

[goozman96]

And WHY did they wait until NOW to tell us that they will be late when they knew that they would be late early January?

[goozman96]

Everyone, post any questions you have here:
http://ecointalk.net/topic/463-we-want-answers/?p=1955

[DebitMe]

I think a demand for a refund is not out of the question, seeing as these will be absolutely worthless 2 months late, terms I would deem acceptable...

F your 25% increase for 4 months or whatever it was, that will not make up for 2 months of lost mining revenue and you know it!  At the very least give us the units so that we can sell them instead of taking back control, what a pu$$y way out.

I will either accept a full refund or
I will accept an increase in hash power that is proportional to the total network hashrate difference between the end of feb and whenever the units actually ship, and not hosted units, but actual units that get sent to me.

Feel free to decide, I will be pursuing legal avenues, if for any reason these terms cannot be agreed upon.

[DebitMe]

There's something seriously wrong when blackarrow is online and checking the forums, but hasn't provided any updates in nearly two months.

Last post: December 09, 2013
Last active: Today

I'll remind everyone of this post on Feb 25 (or sooner if they announce their delays) when BA is officially late.

Wow, I didn't think I'd be so right, so soon.

You are more than welcome to post this now Syke, sorry for giving you trouble earlier.

[goozman96]

Or they could host bitfurries for everyone starting March 1 until we get the Prospero
Do they have enough to host to compensate everyone for the amount of THs each person ordered?

[goozman96]

Or they could host bitfurries for everyone starting March 1 until we get the Prospero
Do they have enough to host to compensate everyone for the amount of THs each person ordered?

If they host the bitfuries there will be no money for prosperos.

How so?

[goozman96]

Also, LOL and to think they were considering switching to 20nm. Had they done that, I don't think the miners would even ship in 2014.

[Pentax]

I'm not surprised.  I got that e-mail that others received and certainly wasn't thrilled.  Was pretty pissed, just like most were, I imagine.

I did expect a delay, however, so I can't say I'm shocked.

I haven't bothered to do the math on their 25% offer.  seeing as power cost is zero, this should help people at least recoup some of their cost.  not sure how much, I'll sit and calculate tomorrow.  Hopefully they can get that set up and rolling and folks can defray some of this.  It won't make up for 60 days lost by a long shot, of course, but it's better than sitting with my thumb in my ass for 90 days earning nothing.

I guess I've done my share of bitching on this thread.  I also promised to STFU when they gave an update.  Well now we have it.  Hopefully BA will meet this new date or deliver early and expand options for those that might want to bail.  I'll see what they have to say and hopefully they'll be better about keeping us in the loop going forward.

Thanks for the update, BA.

[achimsmile]

Do we get a refund if we cancel orders at minersource?

I think I want to cancel my paid order, or sell it to someone interested for cheaper.

[achimsmile]

I'm selling my Prospero X-3 order from minersource

Batch 1. Order Date: 30th Nov 2013. Paid in full. My price is 6.5BTC.

I will prefer the user BitCoins06 if he wants to take it, as he was the first who PM'd me.

Only problem: I don't know how to change the shipping address in the old minersource shop... bobsag3 can you help with this?

[DebitMe]

OK, so what is going on BA.  You send that email out, apparently to half of your actual customers, nothing to anyone who ordered through one of your resellers, and your only on your forums to correct angry people who state some absurd difficulty increase?  Why dont you get on here and work something out?  I think that the 25% that you offered us has not been received too kindly, and personally its more of an insult, and I hope others feel that way.  You basically spat in our faces after telling us you were either on track or slightly ahead of schedule.  So why don't you go ahead and show us how you came about thinking that 25% would be fair/make people happy?  Certainly someone had the idea and had some numbers behind it?  I would also have to imagine that a few of you knew it would do nothing but anger us about such little compensation is being given?  Why don't you rethink this number and give it to us sooner rather than later huh?  It won't make up for lost mining, but it is a start.