Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[OleOle]

Read on, Lloydie, you're not even at the end of the conversation. You missed the post where the mod neatly negates the person you're ostensibly supporting then your champion flounders by trying to cherry-pick parts of my comments.

Did I forget to mention you're an asshat?

Run along now, let's hear something that resembles a paragraph of original thought when you next post. I have to say that my post about you and the dead philosophers still makes me smile, especially as it only seems to have now dawned on you that you are the about-to-be-scammed, the scammed and the scammee.

You didn't know you were more than just an asshat, did you?

 

[1715238779]

1715238779

[1715238779]

1715238779

[1715238779]

1715238779

[OleOle]

Read on, Lloydie, you're not even at the end of the conversation. You missed the post where the mod neatly negates the person you're ostensibly supporting then your champion flounders by trying to cherry-pick parts of my comments.

Did I forget to mention you're an asshat?

Run along now, let's hear something that resembles a paragraph of original thought when you next post. I have to say that my post about you and the dead philosophers still makes me smile, especially as it only seems to have now dawned on you that you are the about-to-be-scammed, the scammed and the scammee.

You didn't know you were more than just an asshat, did you?

 

I know there is a good chance I've been scammed. The sick part are wankers like you and PG doing the I told you so's, asking for 10 Btc for info, producing "satire", and you "philosophy". Thanks but seriously get a fucking life. Be witty with your meaningless bullshit somewhere else. We do not thank you. We say Fuck Off to you with a middle finger. Make that one arm over the other with a raised fist.

As I said above, I won't be going anywhere, I explained my reasons why the broader community needs to know about the underhanded business practices of hardware manufacturers and I sure as hell am not the first person to say that on this forum. I don't repeat myself to asshats so I won't tell you why your gullibility and stupidity allows others to get rich from your money while screwing you into the ground.

You're a fool and the worst sort of fool is the fool who doesn't know he's a fool.

Your accolades are growing by the hour, about-to-be-scammed, scammed, scammee, asshat and fool.

How about you actually address what people are saying rather than venting your frustration with meaningless teen-angst-ridden insults?

If you're wounded and people commenting on the lack of business ethics by BA and others pours salt in your wounds and makes you mad, I understand, you're not liking the pain and you're not able to lash out at BA as... wait for it... they haven't even made an official comment on their own official thread. You, their loyal customer and patsy, are being ripped so you'd prefer that people were quiet than quite rightly inform other members of the community that BA are struggling to meet any customer commitments at all.

Wounded and hurt, maybe we add those to your list? Or are you all cool again and fine with being ripped?

-----

Heh... I love this thread.

Haha, yeah, it's a blast


I particularly like this post highlighting the differences between a manufacturer who can and manufacturers who can't. It also highlights the difference between what happens when customers spend money wisely and those who get torn a new asshole:

Everybody always leaves out Bitmain.  Selling and shipping only what they have in stock, those lads deserve some credit.

IMO They deserve a lot of credit.  I don't know why they're so heavily overlooked.  Maybe it is likely because they didn't rah-rah a bunch of idiots into pre-orders only to leave them hanging.  I'm buying as many S1's as my plans allow, and I'd hazard a guess that almost every single person who is buying into Bitmain units is far, far better off than anyone involved in any of the pre-order screw-ups. 

"...every single person... far better off..."

Indeed.

[OleOle]

Yeah, go the refund if you can.

I can say it's a good feeling getting a refund and then spending the money on hardware that actually exists and has been road-tested by the community. Better to pay a little bit more and have the product 'in hand' as they say rather than wait for, in one well known case, up to and over a year for units to arrive.

I'm far from unsympathetic to the cause of customers duped by manufacturers promises, I was one previously and was fortunate to take action to get a refund and tried to layout a path for others to also get refunded. You can see that my comments on page 12 of this thread were elevated to the OP in an endeavour to assist others:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=295187.0

What has become clear is that after the fiasco involving a number of manufacturers with credit card chargebacks, paypal refunds and similar is that some hardware manufacturers became smarter at defrauding more deliberate in only accepting payment methods which were far more difficult to get refunded.

We all make mistakes and even though I read that I should stay well clear of BFL as they took many, many months to deliver, I was still optimistic enough to believe their repeated claims that 'all products would be shipped by the end of September', when as we know now, this was just another deliberate lie mis-representation of their capabilities.

So far from just chipping in on this thread for the hell of it, I am rather hoping that some new members of this forum (and there are loads of those) actually take the time to think before they spend their money and get the miners they pay for in the time frames they expect to receive them.

This just aint happening here, is it?

 

[OleOle]

On a not unrelated note, the complete lack of confidence in the transparency, accountability and ability to deliver has resulted in the spamming up of Ebay with Black Arrow pre-order sales. Talk about desperation as people hope to retrieve their money any way they can. Six months ago it was a mountain of Jalapenos, now it's a mountain of Prosperos.

At least there were real pictures of Jalapenos, people knew what they were supposedly going to get, the only thing consistent about the Prospero is... wait for it... the slogan, "This machine is designed to generate a steady revenue of Bitcoins for the owner."

Yeah right... hopefully they actually do appear and do generate some meaningful return for the people kind enough to take BA at their word and fund the Minion ASIC development by parting with their cash.

It's time for senior management to step up, take their foot out of their mouth and address their customers.

[DebitMe]

Just landed in the UK, someone at BA is coming to give me a ride back to reading, I will probably update my posts later.

Please try to update with all of our options, these include what will happen if we decide to keep our orders and how we can go about with refund requests for those who have purchased through your site.

Thanks

[Pentax]

To stay in the market, Black Arrow would have to match what Cointerra and KNC are offering.

Free rigs and free hosting vs. 25% more hashing power just seems paltry by comparison.

yep.  Cointerra and KnC obviously recognize the fact that they can't cost their customers a ton of money and expect to survive.

Either route will work, in terms of adding hash power permanently or supplying equivalent hash power until the units are delivered.   It's math, so figure out what is the actual equivalent of the loss to customers.

On a side note, KnC's assertion that they are setting up a massive mine is bad news for the rest of us, as they're going to knock the difficulty up.

These people aren't doing these things out of a sense of decency.  It's business.  You screw your customers and you're out of business.  End of story.  Contrary to assertions that I've seen that these machines were not meant to generate fiat, that's malarkey, this is about money.  Blowing smoke to try to make it as if it is not is simply BS.

As a consumer, I'd like to see all three ASIC manufacturers survive, as this will help drive innovation and bring costs down.  If BA continues with nothing but this additional 25% for 4 months or whatever it was, they're done.  The market won't forget it.  

I won't order another BA product, period, if this is the way they treat their customers.  Even if they promise the greatest, most efficient, powerful unit in the history of the planet, their assertions, claims, promises don't mean a thing if their reputation is that they stood by and let their customers take a bath, while the other manufacturers stepped up and made it right.  

[DebitMe]

People keep saying request a refund, which is what I am trying to do, but to my knowledge,minersource does not have a way to do this. So lets explore that channel and figure out a way to get me my money. If anyone wants to buy my x-3 and 8 x-1's please let me know.  People will continue to request a refund until a channel is opened by which this can happen.  If this launch will be as successful as it is still made out to be, then not many people will be requesting refunds and it shouldn't be a problem or break the bank.

And for those saying that BA can't swing anymore than 25%, that should matter very little. If you make customers happy with your product launch, you will be very well off on the future and make a ton of money, and if that means taking a loss now, well who cares. Make your customers happy and they will come back, but make your customers mad, and we won't be purchasing again in the future, and you will go broke.

[OleOle]

@OleOle ... Mountains of Prosperos on Ebay  

Well... As far as I know, there are just 2 offers !

Once again... Why some people want to destroy BA with lies, wrong information, trying to scare every potentiel buyer ... When will know why these people are acting this way, then will know the hidden reasons of their behaviour !

By the way, I dont quit BA ... I do trust them being able to provide us what we funded !

Michel.

I'm not sure that thanks are in order for bringing me back into the conversation Michel, I had hoped just to sit this out today and watch events unfold before commenting further but it seems you need to have your horizons expanded a little, not surprising really after the gripping and informative three lines of nothing that your 'trusted entity' didn't say while on tour when he should have been looking after his customers.

There's no doubt that artistic licence is rather wasted on most of the crowd of BA-believers here who take things too literally. You're quite correct though, I was lax with the expression "mountains of Prosperos spamming ebay" as we all know there's not mountains of anything on ebay and so far I haven't see anyone sell a mountain there yet although I did hear of the Chinese buying a copper mountain in Chile a while back but that's another story.

You need to be congizant that it's not just Americans who have ebay, although I did check the American ebay site and was surprised to see that a roaring trade must be happening in unwanted Prospero preorders as it was rightly pointed out there's only two left remaining for sale there. Maybe Australians are a bit more wary as they haven't managed to soak up all the supply with six still on the books on the Australian ebay site.

I haven't found any 'sales volume' feature on ebay but the rapidity in which the Prosperos started appearing on the Australian site over the last few day suggests that all confidence has been shattered and when BA senior management think they're the mole in "Whack-A-Mole" it's hard to resist the conclusion that they have something to hide.

I am glad that people are buying them on ebay as it gives many people here another avenue to reclaim their money if the option of choice, a full refund, is denied. Although selling on ebay may just be the equivalent of passing the scam onto other people, so maybe there is no way to avoid the taint that is paid-for-but-undelivered pre-orders.

Of course there's so little information that people are drowning in the secondary speculation and commentary, that's why I was hoping to sit this out and leave the way clear for Corporal Black Adder and his merry men to provide a proper State of the Union address to those eagerly gathered wondering if they've been scammed further or not.

I say scammed further as it's pretty obvious that with people being unhappy with the '25% solution' that people feel that it's more like a '75% scam'.

Anyway, I'm glad that I didn't order anything but as a potential customer and an interested community member I do hope that BA get their act together and stops taking their customers for granted.


------



Exec Summary:

Whack-A-Mole
75% scam
Get their act together

[goozman96]

Here is a proposed offer for Batch 1 customers - 50% off an equal order for batch 2 equipment and forget about the 25% bonus!

No, cuz I don't think very many people are eager to spend more money right now. Any new offers BA decides to give us should not be related to us having to spend more money than we already have. Sure, that could be a good offer for the future if someone wants to be a repeat customer. But not a good offer for compensation for this debacle.

[OleOle]

Black Arrow isn't going to break down and go buy machines from other suppliers in order to keep their customers happy. (although it would be nice)

BA doesn't have to buy machines from others, they can get AM chips like they did with the bitfuries. The AM chips are going to be two months earlier and will kill BA's chips on current performance specs.  

0.35 versus 0.75 w/ghs TT
0.2 versus 0.5(?) w/ghs SS

I'm keen to salvage something out of this.  The BA back end team has failed.  That should be acknowledged. Let's move forward.

How will they be 2 months earlier when BA and AM are both going to tapeout around feb 15?

Do you even have an order with BA or are you just here to create fud?

Given the situation is mostly unknown with regards to where customers actually stand, the real issue is not other people allegedly creating fud - fear, uncertainty, doubt - it's why are you so determined to engender the opposite? - hope, certainty, belief - when you yourself are just as much up shit creek without a paddle as every other customer.

It's time you took you took the paddle out of your arse and stopped accusing any non-fanboi commentators of spreading fud when the vast majority of posters are customers seeking further information and getting no suitable answers.

[OleOle]

Black Arrow isn't going to break down and go buy machines from other suppliers in order to keep their customers happy. (although it would be nice)

BA doesn't have to buy machines from others, they can get AM chips like they did with the bitfuries. The AM chips are going to be two months earlier and will kill BA's chips on current performance specs.  

0.35 versus 0.75 w/ghs TT
0.2 versus 0.5(?) w/ghs SS

I'm keen to salvage something out of this.  The BA back end team has failed.  That should be acknowledged. Let's move forward.

How will they be 2 months earlier when BA and AM are both going to tapeout around feb 15?

Do you even have an order with BA or are you just here to create fud?

Given the situation is mostly unknown with regards to where customers actually stand, the real issue is not other people allegedly creating fud - fear, uncertainty, doubt - it's why are you so determined to engender the opposite? - hope, certainty, belief - when you yourself are just as much up shit creek without a paddle as every other customer.

It's time you took you took the paddle out of your arse and stopped accusing any non-fanboi commentators of spreading fud when the vast majority of posters are customers seeking further information and getting no suitable answers.

What alternate reality are you living in? I don't see "mountains of prosperos selling on ebay" and the "majority of customers posting" are actually only about 3 fudsters who don't know how preorders work.

Seriously don't you have anything better to do? Like riding dinosaurs in your alternate reality?

I understand you're too lazy to read what I wrote above about ebay having more than just their American site. I also appreciate that you're probably trying to forget that you're likely to have been 75% scammed but it's pretty weak denying that most commentators here are customers seeking information/clarification/refunds or even just some official comment on BA's insufficient email to customers.

It should also be clear that I prefer Whack-A-Mole to riding dinosaurs. What is unclear is how that paddle that has remained up your arse and has somehow obscured your vision at the same time, but if you stopped pretending that fairies, unicorns and rainbows will restore lost customer funds and hashing time, you might be just see that the two other people you quoted above were customers who... wait for it... were seeking further information.

Stop huffin' the glue, it's doing you no favours at all.

[goozman96]

So.. Blackarrow and bobsag3 are related (brothers/cousins)? Guess it makes sense since he was the first reseller

[goozman96]

So.. Blackarrow and bobsag3 are related (brothers/cousins)? Guess it makes sense since he was the first reseller

LOL
LOL
LOL

Not even bloody close.
Now im going to go back to bed, its 351AM here in the UK, im jet lagged, and have another meeting tomorrow with all of them, including the reseller for the Netherlands and the UK reseller (flappy stocks).

So it's just a coincidence that y'all have the same last name? >_>

[goozman96]

So.. Blackarrow and bobsag3 are related (brothers/cousins)? Guess it makes sense since he was the first reseller

LOL
LOL
LOL

Not even bloody close.
Now im going to go back to bed, its 351AM here in the UK, im jet lagged, and have another meeting tomorrow with all of them, including the reseller for the Netherlands and the UK reseller (flappy stocks).

So it's just a coincidence that y'all have the same last name? >_>

In Denver CO, where I live, there are at last 4 other familys with the last name Carson. Theres thousands of people with my last name.

Yeah, but the chances of business partners of having the same last name and not being related is kinda slim. Granted that Carson is not a unique last name, but okay.. whatever you say. Looking forward to whatever update you can provide tomorrow.

[goozman96]

So you're saying that the person who operates the blackarrow account does not have the name "Willie Carson"?

[goozman96]

So this post is all lies?:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294197.msg4943991#msg4943991
Even though he has links to back it up.

[goozman96]

Back on topic: can you share with us what y'all have discussed so far? bobsag3 has been in the UK for a whole day now. What progress has been made?

[goozman96]

Where are you? I assume you're somewhere in Europe.

[goozman96]

Back on topic: can you share with us what y'all have discussed so far? bobsag3 has been in the UK for a whole day now. What progress has been made?

First day was just talks with me , tomorrow everyone else joins us and we make decisions.
Im also Jet lagged as all hell, it 451am here and I cant sleep.

Not that I don't believe you, but if you live in Denver, why does your local time indicate that you're on the east coast?
Same thing goes for blackarrow - his local time indicated that he's in Europe, not China.
The more transparency we get, the better people feel.

[goozman96]

Okay then. Please consider KNC and Cointerra's compensations versus your own and find a better solution.
Thanks.