Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[goozman96]

In addition, I did the "forgot password" command as a test to see if my email is in the database. This is what I got:
No account found with that email.

[1715454562]

1715454562

[DebitMe]

Update of my refund:

I received a check yesterday from Minersource in the agreed upon amount and brought it to the bank today.  The teller cashed the check and gave me some cash and put the rest into my account, so I do not think their was any problem with the check.

I appreciate the refund guys, keep up the good work.  For those of you still waiting on refunds I wish you the best.  I will be one of you again if the price keeps going up and I need to unload my bunch of X-1's.

Thanks,

DebitMe

Well that's good to hear, but I've had no luck. After 2 weeks of emails, PMs and phone calls, I finally got a reply from Matt yesterday after I set an appointment to meet him at their offices on Wednesday. (I live about 20 minutes away.) It turns out the location listed on Minersource.net is a mail drop. Matt didn't offer the physical address, but gave a curt reply that due to the size of my refund (4 X-3s) he had to get it OKd by BA.

It's BS that it took me stating that I was coming to the office for him to finally reply, and it's also bs to push responsibility off on BA. I purchased the miners from Minersource.net, not from BA. Minersource owes me the refund. I've been trying to keep this civil and out of the public forums, but all I get in return is silence and then that bullshit. It is hard not to think I'm being ignored with the hope that the machines will ship and they won't have to pay out.

I had even offered to help migrate their old database, to which he replied in this forum that he had PMd me, but he never did. I even reached out to him via email to help on that, but never heard back.

DebitMe, would you mind sharing how many machines your refund was for?

My refund was for a single X-3, and my heart goes out to you, please know that as this is a very unfortunate circumstance.  I know that is a lot of money that you put out for those, and to have to go through all of that, when more than 20K was on the table is troublesome to say the least.  I wish their was more that I could do, unfortunately I am just a bystander in this, same as you, who apparently got lucky.

Please know I will be praying for you, as well as anyone else who is looking for a way out of this mess.  It pains me to see others get screwed as much as they have.  I am not even blaming MinerSource, as I do not believe this is their fault.  I have ordered with them before and will order with them again.  I have nothing but pleasant experiences working with them, but unfortunately, I think they are getting screwed just as much as everyone else by dealing with BA.  I truly do not believe that BA has malicious intent at heart.  But as we are talking a ton of money, and I assume they had to pay BA to get your order in, we must assume it is BA that is holding this whole thing up.  Not to mention that not a single person who ordered straight from BA has gotten a refund.

So please, I know it is tough not to blame MinerSource, especially with so much money tied into it.  And yes, the laws in the United States protect people from this very thing and you could easily take this to the justice system for resolution, but remember who has really screwed you over here!  MinerSource did not lie about where the production status was back in January, MinerSource has not kept an interest free loan, and gambled on the price of bitcoin with your money, and MinerSource did not use your money to fund development of other projects (scrypt chip).  I agree it was not professional making you wait that long without an explanation, and I assume they take responsibility for doing that, but I think they are under a lot of pressure right now from BA as well.

I will take this opportunity again to explain my feelings about refunds.  GET THEM NOW!  In another day or two when we find out that the devices will take anywhere from a few more days to a few more weeks because something is wrong with the chips, or they cannot manufacture that many devices so quickly, there will be a flood of refund requests, and you will more than likely not get served.  I highly doubt they will be the first company in bitcoinland to provide a chip out of fab that exactly meets their specifications.  In the event that they do end up shipping on time and get orders out, you will still be happy you received a refund, as they will immediately drop the price of their machines and you can buy back again, as they are still selling miners that will presumably ship on the same date as everyone else's orders.  The price drop will far outway the measly 25% compensation package they are currently providing, putting you in a better position.  1 TH/s machines are approaching the $2500 mark (I think I saw someone selling for $2800 ish I think) which is under their current price point.  GET A REFUND NOW OR LOSE OUT, that is my piece of advice.

[DebitMe]

...

...

My refund was for a single X-3, and my heart goes out to you, please know that as this is a very unfortunate circumstance.  I know that is a lot of money that you put out for those, and to have to go through all of that, when more than 20K was on the table is troublesome to say the least.  I wish their was more that I could do, unfortunately I am just a bystander in this, same as you, who apparently got lucky.

Please know I will be praying for you, as well as anyone else who is looking for a way out of this mess.  It pains me to see others get screwed as much as they have.  I am not even blaming MinerSource, as I do not believe this is their fault.  I have ordered with them before and will order with them again.  I have nothing but pleasant experiences working with them, but unfortunately, I think they are getting screwed just as much as everyone else by dealing with BA.  I truly do not believe that BA has malicious intent at heart.  But as we are talking a ton of money, and I assume they had to pay BA to get your order in, we must assume it is BA that is holding this whole thing up.  Not to mention that not a single person who ordered straight from BA has gotten a refund.

So please, I know it is tough not to blame MinerSource, especially with so much money tied into it.  And yes, the laws in the United States protect people from this very thing and you could easily take this to the justice system for resolution, but remember who has really screwed you over here!  MinerSource did not lie about where the production status was back in January, MinerSource has not kept an interest free loan, and gambled on the price of bitcoin with your money, and MinerSource did not use your money to fund development of other projects (scrypt chip).  I agree it was not professional making you wait that long without an explanation, and I assume they take responsibility for doing that, but I think they are under a lot of pressure right now from BA as well.

I will take this opportunity again to explain my feelings about refunds.  GET THEM NOW!  In another day or two when we find out that the devices will take anywhere from a few more days to a few more weeks because something is wrong with the chips, or they cannot manufacture that many devices so quickly, there will be a flood of refund requests, and you will more than likely not get served.  I highly doubt they will be the first company in bitcoinland to provide a chip out of fab that exactly meets their specifications.  In the event that they do end up shipping on time and get orders out, you will still be happy you received a refund, as they will immediately drop the price of their machines and you can buy back again, as they are still selling miners that will presumably ship on the same date as everyone else's orders.  The price drop will far outway the measly 25% compensation package they are currently providing, putting you in a better position.  1 TH/s machines are approaching the $2500 mark (I think I saw someone selling for $2800 ish I think) which is under their current price point.  GET A REFUND NOW OR LOSE OUT, that is my piece of advice.

Thanks for the info and your well wishes. Since I posted I've been in touch with Matt through several emails and I think we will work out something this week. I do agree that he's on the up-and-up and doing the best he can. My real concern was the silence, and now we seem to be making progress.

I also think BA is for real, if you compare this thread to AMT's it's like night and day. I almost ordered from them, but switched and am glad on a daily basis. AMT finally started shipping some miners, but they are horribly broken. I think once the BA machines do deliver they will be quality machines at least. Maybe I'm the eternal optimist though.

I agree that BA seems to be legit if we are talking about working to make a chip and release something.  What I am horribly pissed and let down about is that not only did they completely miss their first shipping date, but they completely and flat out lied about being on track to hit it until a month before, and we still have not even heard so much as an apology for...
1) Missing the shipping date
2) Lying about being on schedule (and they can tell you all they want that they did not know, but less than a month from shipping with no tape out tells a completely different story which if they truly believe that they should be on the same level as Mark Karpelas in terms of stupidity)
3) Giving us some shit compensation package that still will not make us break even, much less turn a positive ROI, on these things, meanwhile telling us that it is none of their concern on whether their customers break even.
I truly do not believe there is any hope of them hitting this new deadline.  Chips should be out of fab in the next couple of days per my calculations and the only chance they have is that everything is perfect (like literally perfect where they do not even have to test the chip, but basically start dropping them into boards and sending them out the door).  I just do not see that happening, but I could be wrong.  Even if I am wrong though, I will just buy another X-3 when they start shipping that should be delivered at the same time as everyone elses...ehh I am just ranting again, trying to get people to see how much they have been screwed.

I think a more likely scenario is, we will see another couple week delay, at which time they will deliver a very well made device that is practically worthless in the world of bitcoin.

[Pentax]

...

...

My refund was for a single X-3, and my heart goes out to you, please know that as this is a very unfortunate circumstance.  I know that is a lot of money that you put out for those, and to have to go through all of that, when more than 20K was on the table is troublesome to say the least.  I wish their was more that I could do, unfortunately I am just a bystander in this, same as you, who apparently got lucky.

Please know I will be praying for you, as well as anyone else who is looking for a way out of this mess.  It pains me to see others get screwed as much as they have.  I am not even blaming MinerSource, as I do not believe this is their fault.  I have ordered with them before and will order with them again.  I have nothing but pleasant experiences working with them, but unfortunately, I think they are getting screwed just as much as everyone else by dealing with BA.  I truly do not believe that BA has malicious intent at heart.  But as we are talking a ton of money, and I assume they had to pay BA to get your order in, we must assume it is BA that is holding this whole thing up.  Not to mention that not a single person who ordered straight from BA has gotten a refund.

So please, I know it is tough not to blame MinerSource, especially with so much money tied into it.  And yes, the laws in the United States protect people from this very thing and you could easily take this to the justice system for resolution, but remember who has really screwed you over here!  MinerSource did not lie about where the production status was back in January, MinerSource has not kept an interest free loan, and gambled on the price of bitcoin with your money, and MinerSource did not use your money to fund development of other projects (scrypt chip).  I agree it was not professional making you wait that long without an explanation, and I assume they take responsibility for doing that, but I think they are under a lot of pressure right now from BA as well.

I will take this opportunity again to explain my feelings about refunds.  GET THEM NOW!  In another day or two when we find out that the devices will take anywhere from a few more days to a few more weeks because something is wrong with the chips, or they cannot manufacture that many devices so quickly, there will be a flood of refund requests, and you will more than likely not get served.  I highly doubt they will be the first company in bitcoinland to provide a chip out of fab that exactly meets their specifications.  In the event that they do end up shipping on time and get orders out, you will still be happy you received a refund, as they will immediately drop the price of their machines and you can buy back again, as they are still selling miners that will presumably ship on the same date as everyone else's orders.  The price drop will far outway the measly 25% compensation package they are currently providing, putting you in a better position.  1 TH/s machines are approaching the $2500 mark (I think I saw someone selling for $2800 ish I think) which is under their current price point.  GET A REFUND NOW OR LOSE OUT, that is my piece of advice.

Thanks for the info and your well wishes. Since I posted I've been in touch with Matt through several emails and I think we will work out something this week. I do agree that he's on the up-and-up and doing the best he can. My real concern was the silence, and now we seem to be making progress.

I also think BA is for real, if you compare this thread to AMT's it's like night and day. I almost ordered from them, but switched and am glad on a daily basis. AMT finally started shipping some miners, but they are horribly broken. I think once the BA machines do deliver they will be quality machines at least. Maybe I'm the eternal optimist though.

I agree that BA seems to be legit if we are talking about working to make a chip and release something.  What I am horribly pissed and let down about is that not only did they completely miss their first shipping date, but they completely and flat out lied about being on track to hit it until a month before, and we still have not even heard so much as an apology for...
1) Missing the shipping date
2) Lying about being on schedule (and they can tell you all they want that they did not know, but less than a month from shipping with no tape out tells a completely different story which if they truly believe that they should be on the same level as Mark Karpelas in terms of stupidity)
3) Giving us some shit compensation package that still will not make us break even, much less turn a positive ROI, on these things, meanwhile telling us that it is none of their concern on whether their customers break even.
I truly do not believe there is any hope of them hitting this new deadline.  Chips should be out of fab in the next couple of days per my calculations and the only chance they have is that everything is perfect (like literally perfect where they do not even have to test the chip, but basically start dropping them into boards and sending them out the door).  I just do not see that happening, but I could be wrong.  Even if I am wrong though, I will just buy another X-3 when they start shipping that should be delivered at the same time as everyone elses...ehh I am just ranting again, trying to get people to see how much they have been screwed.

I think a more likely scenario is, we will see another couple week delay, at which time they will deliver a very well made device that is practically worthless in the world of bitcoin.

pretty much sums it up.  these things are useless before they even ship.  I have no idea when that will be, although I'm pretty sure I know when it won't be.  May 1 looks totally impossible to have these delivered in quantity.

read the early posts in this thread and BA is scoffing at the Feb date as if they've got it in hand with room to spare and assuring people it is a conservative date.  here it is mid-april and not even a prototype. 

Had they shipped even close to on time, these would have ROI'd and everyone would be happy and lining up for the scrypt miner.  Customers would've been happy, distributors happy, BA happy.  Instead, they've totally managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in spectacular fashion.  Instead of happy everyone is totally fucked.

This has been the a total flop, difficulty ratcheted up insanely during this delay period and their customers are dead meat.  I'm not counting on that 6 mos of hashing as I don't think they'll make it that long.  I've joined the ranks of refund requesters and can't wait to see how they try to screw me over on that.

I don't know who is running this, but whoever it is should be fired.  What a total shit-show.

[goozman96]

Imported orders should now show, but we are not 100% done yet, so please be patient if something is missing/ wrong.

Some international orders may not appear due to invalid country codes and will be added manually.

Orders may appear as fulfilled even though they have not shipped.

http://minersource.net/blogs/news/13686173-imported-orders

Are we supposed to receive an email? Your login page doesn't even have https whereas the previous two stores did. Is this supposed to be an upgrade? I'm not logging in over http.

My email still isn't showing up in the database.

[DebitMe]

A delay is imminent. if they wanted to ship the beginning of may the should start assemble next week.
as we can see they still need to get parts at the end of next week.

Let the flood of refunds commence, BA care to jump on here and share your thoughts on the delivery schedule and what we are looking at?  Hopefully provide a little more than, "we are on schedule"?

[Pentax]

It sounds like the X3 Hashboard Sample IS the prototype you guys are asking about.  Otherwise, how would they be testing for performance?  Performance of what with no chips?  It's the prototype.

I think they will be late, but we're not looking at five weeks.  Probably an extra week or two.  Which, time is money and they should come clean and tell us what the real prediction is on shipping, but I'm not canceling an order over it.  Waiting to hear what the compensation changes are going to be when they ship.

I dunno.  It also says the chips are out for packaging and they are still testing the backplane.

when I think prototype it's a complete, functional, unit.  if they had an actual working prototype it likely would've made the list.

This type of tech is not my field, although it's similar in a lot of ways, and we have all sorts of methodologies for testing things without having all components.  It is typical for us, for instance, to use resistors to simulate load, eg, use a 'dummy load' to test components, subsystems, etc.  I think it's likely that there are similar devices/methodologies for testing of these sorts of components as well, although I could be totally wrong.

[Pentax]

Why should they comment on schedule?

Because we have paid for the kit and been promised a delivery date twice....? I presume it is coming but What if it's not till June or July  or x

If they promise a delivery date twice and they dont or cant deliver should we at least be told with fair warning ?and then compensated for our trust and patience?

So, you want them to give you another date that they can miss? I'll tell you what, expect delivery about 4 weeks from today +- 1 week. That is about as real as you are going to get and since i said it, not them, there is no one to get mad at or complain about.

No not at all in fact "almost" the opposite - if there is a delay  I want them to hold their hands up and say "look we are not going to hit the deadline, we are sorry  we know we promised it you twice  this is what wer are doing  this is what we will give you for  putting up with the delays"

or in fact  "yes we are on schedule for shipping 1st of May"
 On the 6th of April we the staff on their forum quoted:

"I am very confident that the deadline will be made and shipping will start on time. I will personally vouch for this."  

I just want to know one way or the other now

In other words you want a report when and any time anyone touches any equipment, goes to lunch, takes a screwdriver in their hand at BA?
You think they should also provide you with weather and traffic report? G-d forbid their engineer is not there for 5min.
Just think of the delays that might cause.

http://www.deadline.com/2014/04/video-snl-cnn-breaking-news-pregnancy-test/

give me a fucking break.   you've posted some pretty stupid shit since you've taken on this new role, but this takes the cake.  If your sockpuppet comments are not funny enough, your MO is typically to belittle people after supposedly coming onboard to facilitate communications. 

You wrote:

"What I am going to try is offer constructive criticism, improve customer relations and will try to provide you with some answers."

You're doing a stellar fucking job, if your job description is being a snide asshole to customers of the company.

people want simple answers as to whether or not they are still on schedule for this May 1 date.  if you don't have them shut the fuck up and stop acting like a little bitch because your golden goose is shitting all over it's customers.

[sorehammer]

Why should they comment on schedule?

Because we have paid for the kit and been promised a delivery date twice....? I presume it is coming but What if it's not till June or July  or x

If they promise a delivery date twice and they dont or cant deliver should we at least be told with fair warning ?and then compensated for our trust and patience?

So, you want them to give you another date that they can miss? I'll tell you what, expect delivery about 4 weeks from today +- 1 week. That is about as real as you are going to get and since i said it, not them, there is no one to get mad at or complain about.

No not at all in fact "almost" the opposite - if there is a delay  I want them to hold their hands up and say "look we are not going to hit the deadline, we are sorry  we know we promised it you twice  this is what wer are doing  this is what we will give you for  putting up with the delays"

or in fact  "yes we are on schedule for shipping 1st of May"
 On the 6th of April we the staff on their forum quoted:

"I am very confident that the deadline will be made and shipping will start on time. I will personally vouch for this."  

I just want to know one way or the other now

In other words you want a report when and any time anyone touches any equipment, goes to lunch, takes a screwdriver in their hand at BA?
You think they should also provide you with weather and traffic report? G-d forbid their engineer is not there for 5min.
Just think of the delays that might cause.

http://www.deadline.com/2014/04/video-snl-cnn-breaking-news-pregnancy-test/

give me a fucking break.   you've posted some pretty stupid shit since you've taken on this new role, but this takes the cake.  If your sockpuppet comments are not funny enough, your MO is typically to belittle people after supposedly coming onboard to facilitate communications. 

You wrote:

"What I am going to try is offer constructive criticism, improve customer relations and will try to provide you with some answers."

You're doing a stellar fucking job, if your job description is being a snide asshole to customers of the company.

people want simple answers as to whether or not they are still on schedule for this May 1 date.  if you don't have them shut the fuck up and stop acting like a little bitch because your golden goose is shitting all over it's customers.

Well put 

[tempestb]

So Zurg do You work for them? 

If so Then As a paying customer Please tell me, rather than insulting me, are we on schedule for the second deadline?

Dont go touch any equipment or lift a screwdriver or even look out the window to see what the traffic is like... just answer the question?

He said 4 weeks from today +/- a week.

[OleOle]

if they have everything ready by next Friday and works hard 24h including the weekend maybe they can make it

They won't, lets all roll on the Angry train, don't worry i have a first class ticket! 

All aboard! 





But seriously, watching BA break their promise of February delivery when they swore blind that everything was on schedule was like watching a train wreck in slow motion. We all knew it was going to happen, it was just a question of when the point of impact would be.

There's been some reassuring noises made about the delivery scheduled for May and hopefully they do manage to deliver but it's hard to see it not being another absolute failure.

 

[DebitMe]

If zurg didn't act like a douce bag no one would have picked on him. He maybe a great guy but giving sarcastic replys to people when he doesn't even work for ba doesn't help people who are frustrated and worried about money they are now owed.

Even worse is the Nemesidis guy on Black Arrow's own forums. Although it appears he's representing some kind of official capacity. The approach on their own forums seems to fairly consistently be to mock and patronize customers.

Regardless, since the new deadline has been made, no official BA remark has been made about whether or not the current deadline is within ascertaining. Many have asked, but BA cannot take the literally 2 seconds to state they believe it is still possible to hit this deadline.  Personally, if it were my company and many people were starting to spread rumors about if I would hit my targets, I would quickly issue a statement deconfirming their myths, and yet, they allow us to spread FUD based on our calculations, when we have no real knowledge of the process.  It just does not make sense to me, especially since they are continuing to sell products, I just believe it would be much easier to jump on quick and say, "we can definitely meet this deadline" instead of allowing people to continue to tarnish the delivery date and probably skew sales.

[OleOle]

As I have said before, I am confident that the deadline will be made and shipping will start on time.

Apologies if I've overlooked some of your previous ten posts, but do you work for BA and base your confidence on material information or perhaps you don't work for BA and base your confidence purely on optimism?

If it's the former it's about time you spoke up and provided more details and if it's the latter it's about time you kept quiet.

We've heard many confident people as well as some ardent supporters of BA who based their confidence on optimism only who believed BA's ability to deliver hardware promised in February and now, three months on, people are no nearer to receiving their miners which in many cases were purchased last year.

You'll forgive me if my scepticism overrides my optimism.

 

[goozman96]

As I have said before, I am confident that the deadline will be made and shipping will start on time.

And I asked you:

What makes you say this? Did they recently tell you that they are still on schedule? Or do you just think they are? What happens if there is another delay?

...And you ignored it and probably will ignore this post as well.
http://ecointalk.net/topic/392-black-arrow-weekly-production-update/?p=3490

[slicko]

that s what they shared via fbook:


BA 4/17 Update
1. Minion
· The wafers have been shipped as confirmed by Global Foundries
· The packaging supplier business partner received the wafers.
2. Control board – final design
· We received the LCD samples however testing proved unsatisfactory. New bespoke sample will be delivered to us in the next few days.
3. Heatsink
· First batch shipment received.
4. X3 hashboard
· The X3 hashboard sample has been tested and approved. Our engineers were happy to report that testing scored very highly on performance. Agreed delivery schedule with our manufacturing partner
5. X3 backplane
· Final testing under way. We expect to complete the testing results by Monday.
6. X3 Fan
· First batch delivery expected at the end of next week
7. X3 Power Supply
Under production
8. X3 case
·Final design has been completed, waiting for the sample.
·Plastic mold is being manufactured
9. X1 hashboard
· PCB has been assembled.
10. X1 backplane
· A placement problem for the Ethernet connector has been found , we need to remake the board.
12. X1- Fan
· First batch delivery expected at the end of next week
14. X1 case
· Final design approved and sent to the factory which is going to start manufacturing the mold..

[goozman96]

Goozman sorry for not answering this question before.

I base this on the information given to me.

And what is this information given to you that we, the unwashed masses, aren't privy to?

[goozman96]

Apparently there is some information that david knows but isn't allowed to share.. which makes no sense to me because if there is information that will stop people from thinking there will be a second delay, shouldn't it be shared? But whatever.

Also, BOBSAG3, my email still isn't showing up in your database. And for God's sake, implement https for the login page

[notbatman]

Thousands of dollars in capital gone, thousands in revenue gone. Were did it go? Into developing a Scrypt ASIC to ensure that any customer who's still able to make buck mining with a GPU gets fucked.

You've tarnished the reputation of all Romainian's Alex, may history continue to shit on your backwards country.

[DebitMe]

To clear things up. The development of the LTC chip has not been funded by the money of the pre-orders of the prospero miners. It is a project by the engineers which earn a salary.

So where did the money go that was being used for the SHA chip?  In the first post, it says that you did not have to open up for pre-orders because the chip was already 70% funded and you can get the rest of the money easily.  But that you would open up pre-orders anyway (in retrospect this should have been a huge tip off, but that's neither here nor there).  Now, nearly all of the money taken in from pre-orders is being used to fund production costs of the chip (hence why no refunds are being distributed), care to comment on where all the money is?

Edit:  Since our preorders (likely estimated in the millions of dollars) is only being used for 30% of development, we are looking at one hell of an expensive chip if we are too believe that first post.

[scrib]

Posted on Blackarrowsoftware.com

Bitcoin Miners progress update – 17 April 2014

1. Minion

    · The wafers have been shipped as confirmed by Global Foundries

    · The packaging supplier business partner received the wafers.

2. Control board – final design

    · We received the LCD samples however testing proved unsatisfactory. New bespoke sample will be delivered to us in the next few days.

3. Heatsink

· First batch shipment received.

4. X3 hashboard

· The X3 hashboard sample has been tested and approved. Our engineers were happy to report that testing scored very highly on performance. Agreed delivery schedule with our manufacturing partner

5. X3 backplane

· Final testing under way. We expect to complete the testing results by Monday.

6. X3 Fan

· First batch delivery expected at the end of next week

7. X3 Power Supply

Under production

8. X3 case

    ·Final design has been completed, waiting for the sample.

    ·Plastic mold is being manufactured

9. X1 hashboard

· PCB has been assembled.

10. X1 backplane

· A placement problem for the Ethernet connector has been found , we need to remake the board.

12. X1- Fan

· First batch delivery expected at the end of next week

14. X1 case

· Final design approved and sent to the factory which is going to start manufacturing the mold..

This update sounds pretty positive imo.