Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[DebitMe]

Bobsag, can you comment as to whether your X-1 arrived and is working properly? Some more pictures and video would be appreciated.

[1715265215]

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[DebitMe]

Bobsag, can you comment as to whether your X-1 arrived and is working properly? Some more pictures and video would be appreciated.

Has not arrived yet, given the holiday in China im not expecting it till tomorrow/wednesday.

Do you have a tracking number?

[notbatman]

With nothing but lies and empty promises coming from Black Arrow does anybody still believe this isn't a scam?

[notbatman]

Order no. 3# reporting in.

From: http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/terms-and-conditions-en.html#purchase

15.4 Miscellaneous
You agree and we agree to waive, to the maximum extent permitted by law, any right to a jury trial with respect to any dispute and all disputes will be resolved through binding arbitration. Because this waiver may not be effective in some jurisdictions, this waiver may not apply to you. You acknowledge that you have read this agreement, that you understand it, that you agree to be bound by its terms, and that this is the complete and exclusive statement of the agreement between you and us regarding the Hardware and Software.

Also worth a look is:
Force Majeure
13.1 We are exempted from fulfilling its obligations under this Sales Agreement and is entitled to cancel the Purchaser’s confirmed orders without any liability, in the event of force majeure such as strikes, floods and fires, wars, riots, interruptions in transport, shortage of material or energy sources affecting Our or Our sub-suppliers, accidents or other occurrences which affects sub-suppliers’ production, bankruptcy or compulsory liquidation of a sub-supplier, accidents of any kind, governmental decisions which affects manufacturing or use of the Products and, in general, such events that were unforeseen at the time of the order which prevents or hinder manufacturing, transportation or delivery of the Products to the Purchaser.

Not stirring, just informing those who hadn't bothered to read the T's and C's.

I'm getting a but tired of the continual 'next week' updates. But all we can do is wait

The February 24th shipping date was a lie and you can't base a contract on a lie; the TOS are null and void.

[notbatman]

Order no. 3# reporting in.

*edited due to length*

Not stirring, just informing those who hadn't bothered to read the T's and C's.

I'm getting a but tired of the continual 'next week' updates. But all we can do is wait

The February 24th shipping date was a lie and you can't base a contract on a lie; the TOS are null and void.

See:http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/terms-and-conditions-en.html#purchase

Delivery Terms
9.1 The Products are delivered to the delivery address specified by the Purchaser, unless otherwise agreed. The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on Us. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.
9.2 Where delivery is delayed due to any of the circumstances constituting force majeure in accordance with "Force Majeure" below or due to any act or omission by the Purchaser, the delivery period shall be extended by such a period as is reasonable in light of the circumstances. The delivery period shall also be extended where the cause of the delay arises after the expiry of the originally agreed delivery period.

It may not be binding but if it's a lie then the TOS are null and void.

[notbatman]

Nobody agrees to get scammed.

[notbatman]

Nobody agrees to get scammed.

Do delays = scam?

Because if you agreed to preorder then you agreed to delays. And thus have agreed to get "scammed".

Delays don't equal a scam but lies do.

[notbatman]

It may well be a lie, but good luck convincing a court that without hard evidence. At the very best we have circumstantial evidence that somethong could be going on.

Courts, especially initial hearings don't weigh circumstance very heavily compared to hard evidence.

BA has all the time in the world, we've all signed away our right legal right to do anything, until someone can prove (with actual evidence) BA has done something wrong or has knowingly misconstrued its terms to customers, there is nothi g that can be done.

VeriSilicon, GlobalFoundries and the chip packaging company will all be able to give time estimates on their services. The evidence that Black Arrow lied about their February 24th shipping date looks solid to me.

[Pentax]

It may well be a lie, but good luck convincing a court that without hard evidence. At the very best we have circumstantial evidence that somethong could be going on.

Courts, especially initial hearings don't weigh circumstance very heavily compared to hard evidence.

BA has all the time in the world, we've all signed away our right legal right to do anything, until someone can prove (with actual evidence) BA has done something wrong or has knowingly misconstrued its terms to customers, there is nothi g that can be done.

that may be and that may not be.  they cannot set terms which conflict with existing law.  that is a basic tenet of contract law.

it is probably time to start looking into the laws that apply in the countries it does business in.

and that is only if a company does not have to follow the laws of a country in which it sells it's products, which is something I am unclear on, but a lawyer could answer in about 30 seconds.  I have a tendency to think it probably does, but am not certain.  in the US this soft delivery date is in conflict with consumer law, so it's meaningless.  how that works in the UK, Hong-Kong, China I do not know.

this silly shit that people have somehow agreed to this and have no options is utter bullshit.  people only have no options if they decide to do nothing.  After this amount of time, people have been patient and have every right to start pursuing legal action.  

[notbatman]

"Annulment is a legal procedure for declaring a marriage null and void. Unlike divorce, it is usually retroactive, meaning that an annulled marriage is considered to be invalid from the beginning almost as if it had never taken place (though some jurisdictions provide that the marriage is only void from the date of the annulment). For example, this is the case in section 12 of the Matrimonial Causes Act 1973 in England and Wales."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annulment

[DebitMe]

Well for those wondering where the "lie" comes in, there is hard evidence that could easily implicate BA if it came to that.  I am getting ready for work, so I am sure someone else can look up the dates/posts and what not or it could be done later if you don't believe me, but, there are posts from BA's account saying that everything is on track for the February delivery date, and some even saying they were slightly ahead of schedule.  This happened up to under a month before the expected first delivery date.  This was an outright lie, and ploy to attract more sales, as they full well knew that the chip hadn't even taped out yet.  Any novel in computer can tell you that you need at least 2 months for the tape out process, then add in another month or so for ironing out problems and getting production underway (Although BA has passed the 1 month mark of that).

So, there is your outright lie, just to drum up more sales from customers who were expecting delivery in under a month.  They knew they hadn't taped out, and as such, there was no possible way they could meet the February deadline, although they repeatedly reported that they were on time and/or ahead of schedule.

[DebitMe]

Bobsag, have you received your unit now?

[DebitMe]

What I dont understand here is, if I ordered from Minersource - then aren't they responsible for my refund ? I have been trying to get a refund from them for months now to no avail.

Even offered to get a store credit instead and buy different kit from them but nothing but lies lies lies from those guys and finger pointing. We are feeling very ripped off by Minersource, who cares about BlackArrow they didnt sell me a lie...

People should boycott them until they do right by their customers.

Well, as per your rights since they are a US company, you are entitled to a refund no matter what if the product is not shipping.  I do not see any indication that anything has shipped, perhaps try bringing this up again while quoting some government agencies and even Micro Center as a CC in your emails and see if you get a reply?

[Pentax]

What I dont understand here is, if I ordered from Minersource - then aren't they responsible for my refund ? I have been trying to get a refund from them for months now to no avail.

Even offered to get a store credit instead and buy different kit from them but nothing but lies lies lies from those guys and finger pointing. We are feeling very ripped off by Minersource, who cares about BlackArrow they didnt sell me a lie...

People should boycott them until they do right by their customers.

it's possible minersource sent the money along to BA.  if they're out of money, which it seems they are, as they're not issuing refunds at all unless you paid in BTC and will take that deflated amount back, MS may be having problems getting that cash.

whether or not you give a shit about the circumstances is another matter, I guess.

[DebitMe]

Do not get me wrong, I like Minersource, I have ordered from them and will do so again in the future.  But you do have rights since they are an American company.  They have refunded me in the past, and if I do not get my X-1 in the next week they will be refunding me again.  But, I would like to see whatever they are doing to get BA to refund/ship.  I see this thread cluttered with questions, and technically I formed a contract with Minersource, not BA, so I would like to see what Minersource is doing about my product.  Also, a lack of updates about where that first X-1 is at is a bit concerning.

[DebitMe]

Do not get me wrong, I like Minersource, I have ordered from them and will do so again in the future.  But you do have rights since they are an American company.  They have refunded me in the past, and if I do not get my X-1 in the next week they will be refunding me again.  But, I would like to see whatever they are doing to get BA to refund/ship.  I see this thread cluttered with questions, and technically I formed a contract with Minersource, not BA, so I would like to see what Minersource is doing about my product.  Also, a lack of updates about where that first X-1 is at is a bit concerning.

I just asked for a refund from them and they said No. Since the shipping date is so soon. I believe their post indicated shipping the beginning of this week June 2, 2014.

I refer to my prior post

Well, as per your rights since they are a US company, you are entitled to a refund no matter what if the product is not shipping.  I do not see any indication that anything has shipped, perhaps try bringing this up again while quoting some government agencies and even Micro Center as a CC in your emails and see if you get a reply?

[DebitMe]

so they are shipping to minersource and we dont even know the specs.

Or details about compensation.  I am a little skeptical, I would think there would be more of an announcement, either from BA or Bobsag, than just someone saying they heard this from MinerSource.

[notbatman]

The delay train is headed for 12 billion difficulty in less than 12 hours...

I really doubt Black Arrow is missing out on massive daily profits for a minor serial communications issue. How much money could their cloud hashing facility bring in, in a 24 hour period? Is this a KnC size farm on our dime?

[Pentax]

Really hard to decide whether I wish to be fucked by cancelling my order or fucked by waiting for my order to be fulfilled.

I gave up and asked for a refund...two months ago. A month ago I received an email asking for all my info and account number stating I should receive the refund within 5 days which made me a bit more optimistic. Then after a few days I got another mail stating blackarrow wasn't releasing any money and I had to wait until.. I really don't know.

Still waiting for my $. Either way it's a lose/lose situation.

Overall a bad experience. 

Ordered 2 units in november last year.
[/quote

ditto.  I'm ready for lawye

[notbatman]

12 / 3 * 2 = 8