Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[CryptoGuy]

At this point I don't understand why the resellers aren't pursuing BA. They're about to go under because of all this BS and they somehow think they're more protected being based in the US. My only guess is they've been paid under the table by BA to keep quiet and they have to do everything they can to cover that up.

[SimonBeCoinin]

Look at this latest on these shitbags' forum, posted by that pool of anal seepage, Nemesidis, aka Alexey:

http://ecointalk.net/topic/1460-regarding-off-topic-posts-flaming-and-agitation/


"Regarding Off topic posts, Flaming and Agitation:
 Agitating other people will not help to resolve the issue in best way, not for customers not for us. People are already upset by the delay and there is no need to push it further. We are well aware of it and trying to provide best way possible to resolve this issue. Cross posting and Flaming are not acceptable on any of the forums that has simple rules, so if topic has been locked, or posts deleted, it's not because of it's contents, but simply because of not following simplest of the rules. Besides, if you already filed information and sent it to someone, there is no need to post it here. This forum not an agitation tool, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated on this forum, as well as any other, except the ones, that are especially made for this kind of agitation. From our side, we are still working on the best way and solutions to compensate our customers in better way than offered before, before making conclusions if you would like to see other options, you will have to wait until they are finished, unfortunately there is no exact time frame, also we offered various ways of compensation options, that our customers can accept or wait for other options.
 
Further unreasonable agitation will lead to forum access removal and restriction of access by IP.
PLEASE NOTE: asking people for personal information is strictly prohibited for security reasons, by providing such information you can as well provide sensitive information for accessing your accounts, email's, payment and bank details.
 
Regarding Fire issue, There has been 3 or 4 units total that had problem with damaged PCB's and that's not enough to start they all burn panic, 1 has been reported having fire. However, people that benefit from all round panic and want to use that panic for their own reasons usually dispensary after they get what they need. That generally considered as abusive and threatening behavior. They just put FIRE in caps to start flaming and encourage other people to follow. Usually it will gather amount of people that has no interest in reason or what the issue actually is. Not even 1% of X-3 units has had that issue, so please stop that unreasonable FIRE, FIRE stuff. We are aware of the issue severity and we have taken steps to prevent any further possible damage, before units are checked and have issues corrected.
 
Would be really thankful if cross posting and starting multiple threads with same content would stop. One is enough to discuss the issue. So please don't wonder if posts or whole threads will get deleted or locked, especially if it's starting same topics that is already in Discussion.
 
Regards!"




Not enough to start that "they all burn panic"

what kind of fucking morons are these people.  1 fire is too many, assholes.  It's a product people bought to run in their homes. 

If they hadn't been such a crappy company in the first place and had actually built all of these, who knows what would have happened.

Now they apparently don't want anyone discussing it any longer or it will deemed "abusive and threatening".  Give me a break. 

Even by BA's standards, that is some seriously thin logic.

Being concerned that your house will burn down is now abusive and threatening as far as they're concerned.  What kind of morons are these people....

[Dallas5]

They can say whatever they want, simple fact is Blackarrow and Minersource are breaking the law by not sending refunds that are requested for a months delayed product.

Minersource even told me I would get a refund months ago then suddenly they mailed "We are now shipping products and are unable to send refunds" WTF that doesn't even make sense  


BTW SimonBeCoinin they don't own ecointalk they just moderate a small subforum. Edit they do own it.

[SimonBeCoinin]

They can say whatever they want, simple fact is Blackarrow and Minersource is breaking the law by not sending refunds that are requested for a months delayed product.

Minersource even told me I would get a refund months ago then suddenly they mailed "We are now shipping products and are unable to send refunds" WTF that doesn't even make sense  


BTW SimonBeCoinin they don't own ecointalk they just moderate a small subforum.

Hi.  Actually I think they do own it.  I thought I'd remembered seeing a thread about it early on.  When they started deleting posts, people were asking.


http://ecointalk.net/topic/1002-who-owns-this-forum/

It wouldn't surprise me if they bought it.  Anything to control the information with these people. 

at this it seems to me they are trying to shut down discussion as much as possible.  labeling simple discussion as abusive or threatening so they can justify deletion.

It is similar to the false logic they used to censor people on this forum, by declaring them to be paid by competitors to post, without any evidence of that and then deleting those peoples' posts based on that logic. 

construct a framework to disallow something and them jam things through that framework when it suits.  it's an interesting methodology when you think about it. 

In this case they said abusive or threatening behavior would be censored/deleted on that forum.  Now let's label anything we don't want discussed any further, such as these fires, as abusive or threatening.  now it must be deleted.   and that's how you do the BA information control dance.

[Dallas5]

I see you're right all mods are BA's, so that forum is incredibly biased. Well there are other forums like Cryptocointalk and this one.

I'm really sick of not hearing anything from MS, gonna take a brake from this BS for a while. Hope to see my money back else I consider it to be stolen.

[Pentax]

I see you're right all mods are BA's, so that forum is incredibly biased. Well there are other forums like Cryptocointalk and this one.

I'm really sick of not hearing anything from MS, gonna take a brake from this BS for a while. Hope to see my money back else I consider it to be stolen.

I think you can file small claims in your state if nothing else.  Might want to see about that.  Even people that asked for a refund and had the miner jammed on them after the fact can still do so, I think.

I don't know how much you're out and I guess that would be the decider for me.

[notbatman]

Looks like what comes around goes around:

Look at the size of this operation of stolen bitcoins:

https://blockchain.info/address/1FsVcdeHbpvUVT3gjeuVR2ZSDnpcsJMsLL

Yesterday there were 175k. Today 182k.

I guess this is the reason why bitcoin falls in price these days.

What makes you say that these coins are stolen?

What makes you say that these coins are stolen?

We've chased our stolen coins here.

[ElGrandJefe]

The BlackArrow user deleted the following post from their thread:

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Posted by Truth_Seeker at ecointalk, thought it would also be good to have here in case BA deletes it (as they are wont to do):

   

Truth_Seeker, on 24 Sept 2014 - 7:20 PM, said:

    I suggest everyone makes a police report ASAP.

    Links:

    Hong Kong police cyber crime department because their corps are in Hong Kong

    https://secure1.info.gov.hk/police/eforms/report_cyber_crime_en.php

    UK Action Fraud because their banking is in the UK

    http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/

    The names you should mention are  Daniel Andronic -> Facebook page -> https://www.facebook.com/daniel.andronic.77

    The bank information of black arrow is as follows:

    Beneficiary company name: Destino LIMITED
    Beneficiary company address: Edwards Place, 240 Kings Road, Reading, RG1 4NY, United Kingdom
    Message to beneficiary: >>> fill in here your order number. For exampleOrder #3333 <<<
    Beneficiary bank name: Metro Bank
    Beneficiary bank address: 201 Broad Street Mall, Reading, RG 1 7QA, United Kingdom
    Beneficiary country: United Kingdom
    Swift code: MYMBGB2LXXX

    Please select your preferred currency on our website in order to obtain the total amount of your order and pay to one of these accounts:

    EUR Account Number: 13633018, Sort Code: 23-05-80, IBAN:GB31MYMB23058013633018
    USD Account number: 13633045, Sort Code: 23-05-80, IBAN:GB78MYMB23058013633045
    GBP Account Number: 13631317, Sort Code: 23-05-80, IBAN:GB77MYMB23058013631317

    I suggest everyone do this before they delete my post because this forum is owned by them!

I just sent my report to the HK Police - it took all of 5 minutes. I didn't report to UK Action Fraud because I'm an early customer and wired my money directly to a HK bank. As the BFL smackdown shows, if enough people complain, the authorities have to respond at some point.

If you're a BA victim, you don't have anything to lose anyway, because they are refusing refunds and only slowly ship now-worthless (or even exploding) mining equipment.

The Hong Kong police are definitely investigating this. If you are a BA victim, please use the above link to report the details of your transaction (order date, order content, payment date, bank account to which payment was made).

Thanks again to theymos for starting this thread with BA's mass-deleted posts.

[notbatman]

I believe that we have already informed our customers of this: We are currently waiting for CE to check the X3. Until completed, no shipment can be made.

We would like to ask forum users to stop flooding the thread with obscene messages.

Thank you for your patience.

[goozman96]

Still no news on BlackArrow being shut down? How much longer will it take? This has gone on for too long.

[Dallas5]

So did I. I then requested a refund in April, which they approved, but asked me to wait until shipping started.

In August, after shipping had started, they said there would be no refunds.

Yet somehow we customers are to blame for keeping them busy with our complaints and making their sensitive engineers cry with our criticism.

Please, please report your case to the Hong Kong police, using the above link. Then the police will have one more complaint on top of the pile of others. And they will act on them.

Do it soon, before BA deletes another 50 pages of posts from this thread again.

Minersource and Blackarrow promising refunds and then telling their customers, sorry whoops you're not getting a refund is not acceptable or allowed.

From usa.gov - Consumer Complaints and Protection

Know Your Rights

When you order something by mail, phone, fax or computer, the Federal Trade Commission requires the company to:

    Ship the merchandise within the time promised, or if no specific delivery time was stated, within 30 days of receiving your order.
    Notify you if the shipment cannot be made on time and give you the choice of waiting longer or getting a refund.
    Cancel your order and return your payment if the new shipping date cannot be met, unless you agree to another delay.

If you cancel, your money must be refunded within 7 days (or your account must be credited within one billing cycle if you charged the order). The company can't substitute a credit for other merchandise. If you applied for a charge account with the merchant at the same time that you placed your order, the company has an extra 20 days to ship the merchandise to allow time for processing your application.

This only applies to Minersource since they are located in the US.


copied from BA's moderated thread.

[ElGrandJefe]

I almost feel bad for Minersource. They hitched their buggy to these horses, only to find out they were dead. From what I've seen, they've been doing their best to make things right, but there's only so much you can do before the stench of BA's rotting carcass starts getting to you.

But on the other hand, the reseller customers were served ahead of BA's direct customers who ordered months beforehand, which is all kinds of shitty.

In the end, you have to cover your own ass and do what you think is right.

[Syke]

I almost feel bad for Minersource. They hitched their buggy to these horses, only to find out they were dead. From what I've seen, they've been doing their best to make things right, but there's only so much you can do before the stench of BA's rotting carcass starts getting to you.

I don't think MS cares. Only 11 people have even bothered to file a BBB report, which only takes a few seconds to do online. I doubt anyone has even filed a lawsuit against them. Maybe MS have delivered or refunded most of the BA orders they took?

[greenlion]

Looks like what comes around goes around:

Look at the size of this operation of stolen bitcoins:

https://blockchain.info/address/1FsVcdeHbpvUVT3gjeuVR2ZSDnpcsJMsLL

Yesterday there were 175k. Today 182k.

I guess this is the reason why bitcoin falls in price these days.

What makes you say that these coins are stolen?

What makes you say that these coins are stolen?

We've chased our stolen coins here.

The thread this comes from is one of the most insane things I've ever read.

Wire fraud confidence criminal Alexdru Ion Sovu is now giving his genius innovative advice to the core devs by starting a bitcointalk thread about something people have been talking about for years!

This guy really might be legitimately mentally ill.

[goozman96]

As I mentioned in Alex's thread, anyone who has sent bitcoins to BlackArrow, check to see if those coins are still in the original wallet you sent them to, or if they've been moved (stolen) as BA would like you to believe.

[nosferatujeff]

Mine (7 BTC for 2TH cloudmining) were finally removed from payment address on 26 Sep.

My only payment from cloudmining was 1 Oct.

[Pentax]

Mine (7 BTC for 2TH cloudmining) were finally removed from payment address on 26 Sep.

My only payment from cloudmining was 1 Oct.

I am wondering if these, and those of other customers that paid in BTC, are the BTC they are claiming were "stolen"


gosh, gee, golly, there's no way they can refund what's been stolen, probably don't have to pay taxes on it either, and how in the world do they fund the rent-a-minion or continue operations now that all the moniez haz been took by those low-down dirty thieves.

[btmtb]

Mine (7 BTC for 2TH cloudmining) were finally removed from payment address on 26 Sep.

My only payment from cloudmining was 1 Oct.

My payment to black arrow appears to have been laundered to here: https://blockchain.info/address/1AjkpTx4skYo7e65dKcpu2RUuwXq46Ln9p and here: https://blockchain.info/address/1FsVcdeHbpvUVT3gjeuVR2ZSDnpcsJMsLL  (these might be trading site wallets etc, I don't know, so don't jump to any conclusions yet, would be interested to know if anyone elses trails pass through these points)

I'm personally still not convinced that any traditional theft occurred from Black Arrow, I believe this type of deception has a very different name.

[GPK260]

FROM http://ecointalk.net  Angry
Posted Yesterday, 04:55 PM

They are not Chinese.  If it isn't apparent, Black Arrow appears to be one or more Romanians who live in the UK.  They pay Chinese companies to build their equipment for them.

 

I believe they ceased production at their previous factory because the company they contracted out was very slow, and probably because they ran out of money.

 

They found a new production company that can produce all the miners in three days, but I don't think they are producing anything, because they are out of money.  (It would be obvious if they were, because in three days, they'd be done.  Since that hasn't happened, you can figure out the rest.)

 

I believe that they are looking for some kind of third party investor who will provide the necessary cash to complete production.

 

In the meantime, they may be producing units themselves, slowly for lack of anything better to do.

 

I believe the company is broke.  They may be mining with some X3's to get enough cash to keep the lights on and pay people, and maybe finish a miner here or there by hand.  But at this stage, it sounds as though they are just broke and looking for new investors.

 

I would like to think differently, but when I ask about their financial situation and why they are unable to do certain things, their lack of answers indicates they are broke.  No denials.  No proof of any kid.

 

I think if anyone looks at this with a clear head, you have a company that hasn't made a sale in over half a year, trying to pay people to build these miners.  It's game over.

 

Sure, they MIGHT find an investor.  But this generation of miners are worthless unless Bitcoin goes to a thousand dollars a coin, but every difficulty increase that clicks by, no matter how small, shows us that the machines will be that much pointless to produce and ship out.

 

It's a terrible situation to be sure.  They took a lot of people's money, including mine, and gave them nothing in return.  Being broke, they have no way to fix it.  It'll come down to lawsuits and legal action before too long, because they won't be able to prove to any investigating body that they can make good on the contracts they agreed to.  They are screwed.  The only hope is some kind of angel investor, but I really don't see how one would step into this mess and waste money trying to fix it.  Not unless they got complete control of the "company" and all of its IP.

 

I wish Black Arrow luck in trying to sort this mess out.  But the whole thing is a wash as far as I see it.  Pretty soon I'll be able to get 2th for less than what it'll cost BA to ship me my units.

[GPK260]

My payment also go "moved" on the 26th September