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Author Topic: Diablo Mining Company  (Read 95476 times)
DiabloD3
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September 11, 2012, 08:12:35 PM
 #481

What was the rationale for that swap?  Clearly it was terrible for all existing shareholders - as it (and the other 10k or so newly issued shares) totally diluted what little value he'd still got left in the company.  Why did he need 50 BTC so badly as to totally screw over his existing shareholders?  And what blackhole did that 50 BTC vanish into?

No such swap happened. What I did swap was a 10:1 swap for ASICMINER he held because I believe ASICMINER is worth more than 0.1 in the long run, maybe over 10 BTC including dividends. I have since traded my Obsi.1mhs for 1:1 ABMO and ASICMINER for 2:1 ABMO to become owner of half of ABMO while retaining most of the future ASICMINER profit.

Quote
1.  Provide a proper asset list for DMC - including non-GLBSE assets.
2.  Account in broad-strokes where all the rest of the money has gone (lost X BTC buying 500 of share Y at 3 times what it was worth then traded it for 1k shares of Z which was even worse etc..).
3.  Explain what swaps/sales of brand new shares occured to quadruple outstanding shares and explain the raionale behind them.

I'm not optimistic of him being able/willing to answer any of those three points (as if he told the truth it would get him a scammer tag after everyone stopped laughing) - but would be nice to be pleasantly surprised.

As for GLBSE assets, I have already provided an up to date list. As for non-GLBSE assets, I have already announced the dedi/cloud deal.

About, oh, two months ago many of the fixed mhash bond issuers decided to issue more bonds selling into their bid walls knowing that they would make hundreds or maybe thousands of BTC.... in a pyramid schemey sort of way, they would continue paying dividends out of this new money and buy an ASIC rig to cover future dividends at a fraction of what they sold the bonds for. In the end, they still keep most of the BTC they scooped up out of the bid wall. They plunged fixed mhash bonds from the 0.30s down to the 0.10s.

Although I doubled the number of mhash that backed DMC shares during this time, I realized what they were doing and sold or traded my 1mh bonds away as fast as possible. Instead of a 3000 BTC loss (the majority of what we held was fixed mh bonds from many issuers), it was 1000 BTC loss.

The only person before this post who I have spoken with about this is usagi, and he thinks I am correct. I have not requested scammer tags for any fixed mhash bond issuer because I do not have sufficient proof of this to make it stick.

To make it clear, Obsi was not one of these crooked issuers. He purchased back Obsi.1mhs at IPO price then reissued it at a fraction of that to prevent bondholder losses.

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DiabloD3
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September 11, 2012, 08:15:44 PM
 #482

Diablo had no right to sell at (OP gives no right to sell shares other than at 1 BTC each).

I swapped shares based on current or future value. 1 BTC for 1 BTC.

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September 11, 2012, 08:23:48 PM
 #483

What was the rationale for that swap?  Clearly it was terrible for all existing shareholders - as it (and the other 10k or so newly issued shares) totally diluted what little value he'd still got left in the company.  Why did he need 50 BTC so badly as to totally screw over his existing shareholders?  And what blackhole did that 50 BTC vanish into?

No such swap happened. What I did swap was a 10:1 swap for ASICMINER he held because I believe ASICMINER is worth more than 0.1 in the long run, maybe over 10 BTC including dividends. I have since traded my Obsi.1mhs for 1:1 ABMO and ASICMINER for 2:1 ABMO to become owner of half of ABMO while retaining most of the future ASICMINER profit.


That makes a bit more sense except:

The nav/share of DMC at the time was over 0.05
You made a trade which valued them at under 0.015

there's ALWAYS been strong depth of ASICMINER available at .15 or lower (I've traded those myself) - so why would you issue new shares which were backed by a NAV of 0.5-1.0 (per 10) to trade for something which could be bought for .15 or lower?

Maybe you're right about ASICMINER being woth 10 BTC in the long-run - but that does NOT mean it's currently worth 3-7 times what ANYONE else using GLSBE is willing to pay for it now (and by 'now' I mean 'then' - currently they can be picked up in decent volume for .105).  Did it ever cross your mind that you (having already lsot 90% of your business' value) could just POSSIBLY be wrong and EVRYONE esle right in not paying more than 0.15 per ASICMINER share now?

That's all besides the point that you had no right to issue new shares other than at 1 BTC - let alone sell at a fraction of current nav/share because you 'thought' everyone else in the world had hugely undervalued ASICMINER.
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September 11, 2012, 08:24:42 PM
 #484

But in pursuit of the scammers tag ... why was he doing swaps at all when it is not part of the agreement?
Incompetent, maybe... Enrichment of ghost accounts and friends, looks like he may have tried

I find it very hard to believe someone able to write useful software and articulate English sentences could be so incompetent to lose 95% of shareholder value in 6 months doing honest best effort trading. Aside from PPTs. not a single GLSBE asset did remotely that bad. Given the circumstances, I would assume fraud until proven otherwise. There are many ways Diablo could have profited from these under the table dealings and no objective honest reason I can see why he would have done them.
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September 11, 2012, 08:32:18 PM
 #485

Diablo had no right to sell at (OP gives no right to sell shares other than at 1 BTC each).

I swapped shares based on current or future value. 1 BTC for 1 BTC.

Here's a free clue:

If you see something that's going to be worth a lot more in the future you:

DO: buy it at today's price and make a nice profit if you're right and not lose much if you're wrong.
DON'T: buy it at a massive multiple of  today's price guaranteeing a huge loss if you're wrong and not much profit if you're right.

Taking what I quoted a face value, you're saying that you honestly believe you bought ASICMINER shares at 10 BTC each (as you apparently accept you could only issue your own at 1 BTC) when they were available to buy at 0.15 or less on GLBSE?  And you did it because you 'believe' they 'might' actaully be worth 10 BTC at some point in the far future?  Sounds like a sure-fire recipe for success .... not.
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September 11, 2012, 08:32:33 PM
 #486

What was the rationale for that swap?  Clearly it was terrible for all existing shareholders - as it (and the other 10k or so newly issued shares) totally diluted what little value he'd still got left in the company.  Why did he need 50 BTC so badly as to totally screw over his existing shareholders?  And what blackhole did that 50 BTC vanish into?

No such swap happened. What I did swap was a 10:1 swap for ASICMINER he held because I believe ASICMINER is worth more than 0.1 in the long run, maybe over 10 BTC including dividends. I have since traded my Obsi.1mhs for 1:1 ABMO and ASICMINER for 2:1 ABMO to become owner of half of ABMO while retaining most of the future ASICMINER profit.


That makes a bit more sense except:

The nav/share of DMC at the time was over 0.05
You made a trade which valued them at under 0.015

there's ALWAYS been strong depth of ASICMINER available at .15 or lower (I've traded those myself) - so why would you issue new shares which were backed by a NAV of 0.5-1.0 (per 10) to trade for something which could be bought for .15 or lower?

DMC did not have the money to purchase them, and usagi wanted to swap them at the then current rate. If I am right about their true value, then by the time DMC could afford to buy that many they would have already gone up in value. In other words, instead of trading a few thousand shares of DMC for tens of thousands of BTCs worth of assets and dividends, we would have a tiny fraction of that and no dividends to show for it.

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September 11, 2012, 08:34:52 PM
 #487

But in pursuit of the scammers tag ... why was he doing swaps at all when it is not part of the agreement?
Incompetent, maybe... Enrichment of ghost accounts and friends, looks like he may have tried

I find it very hard to believe someone able to write useful software and articulate English sentences could be so incompetent to lose 95% of shareholder value in 6 months doing honest best effort trading. Aside from PPTs. not a single GLSBE asset did remotely that bad. Given the circumstances, I would assume fraud until proven otherwise. There are many ways Diablo could have profited from these under the table dealings and no objective honest reason I can see why he would have done them.

I have made zero profit from DMC. Even the dividends from my own shares, which I purchased with my own money, have only gone back into the company to buy more shares.

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September 11, 2012, 08:38:49 PM
 #488

Still havent heard what the other 10k new shares were swapped for - presumably fixed-share mining bonds (that can only drop in value) that he believed would go from 0.1 to 10.0 BTC in the future (in some parallel universe where difficuly decreases etc).  

Which isn't a dig at ASICMINER - they're a decent share which if everything went perfectly (their protype works, they get to market first, they mine a good chunk before selling any, competitors fail to deliver on time etc etc) COULD go to 10 BTC.  It could equally easily never go above its previosu peak of 0.16 (prototype doesn't work etc).  It's a speculative investment with potential for extremely good returns and a commensurate risk of never making anything significant back - and it's priced accordingly (by everyone other than Diablo).
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September 11, 2012, 08:41:12 PM
 #489

I have made zero profit from DMC. Even the dividends from my own shares, which I purchased with my own money, have only gone back into the company to buy more shares.

Then you have made a profit, and you have chosen to reinvest it.

But notice it went back into the company. It did not go into my pocket.

If nefario does decide to go ahead with the asset theft, I lose my money along with everyone else.

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September 11, 2012, 08:46:17 PM
 #490

But notice it went back into the company. It did not go into my pocket.

Where did those purchased shares go?
Did you destroy them to the benefit of all other shareholders? Or do they sit in your personal portfolio.
I am willing to bet they are in your personal portfolio adding no value to DMC.

I do not maintain a personal portfolio. The only shares of anything on GLBSE I own is DMC itself.

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September 11, 2012, 08:49:24 PM
 #491

What was the rationale for that swap?  Clearly it was terrible for all existing shareholders - as it (and the other 10k or so newly issued shares) totally diluted what little value he'd still got left in the company.  Why did he need 50 BTC so badly as to totally screw over his existing shareholders?  And what blackhole did that 50 BTC vanish into?

No such swap happened. What I did swap was a 10:1 swap for ASICMINER he held because I believe ASICMINER is worth more than 0.1 in the long run, maybe over 10 BTC including dividends. I have since traded my Obsi.1mhs for 1:1 ABMO and ASICMINER for 2:1 ABMO to become owner of half of ABMO while retaining most of the future ASICMINER profit.


That makes a bit more sense except:

The nav/share of DMC at the time was over 0.05
You made a trade which valued them at under 0.015

there's ALWAYS been strong depth of ASICMINER available at .15 or lower (I've traded those myself) - so why would you issue new shares which were backed by a NAV of 0.5-1.0 (per 10) to trade for something which could be bought for .15 or lower?

DMC did not have the money to purchase them, and usagi wanted to swap them at the then current rate. If I am right about their true value, then by the time DMC could afford to buy that many they would have already gone up in value. In other words, instead of trading a few thousand shares of DMC for tens of thousands of BTCs worth of assets and dividends, we would have a tiny fraction of that and no dividends to show for it.

What was the "then current rate"?  For ASICMINER and for DMC

You traded 10 10 DMC for 1 ASICMINER (you said so just now)
You could only issue at DMC at 1 BTC each (you said so just now)

Where do you get a "Then current rate" of 10 BTC for 1 ASICMINER from?
Or even a "Then current rate" of 1 BTC for ASICMINER from?

You DO realise everyone can just look at GLBSE and SEE what price ASICMINER has been trading at?  Other than a brief spike to 0.25 (just after its IPO - i.e. well before your swap) it's been pretty much in the 0.1-0.15 range (occasionally going up briefly to 0.16 on small volume outlier trades).

SO if you told the truth about only issuing at 1 BTC per DMC you paid 60-70 times the "then current rate" for ASICMINER.
If, on the other hand, you lied about that then you ONLY paid maybe 5-7 times the "Then current rate" - which assumes DMC shares only to be worth nav/share.

You'll note that your OP says DMC sahres will be issued at 1 BTC.  Not that they'll be issued in return for a promise of 1 BTC.  Not that they'll be issued in return for a hope of 1 BTC.  To issue new shares in return for anything other than 1 BTC currency would require you to put a motion to your shareholders - as it would constitute a change in your contract.
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September 11, 2012, 09:09:48 PM
 #492



POSTSCRIPT:

Nefario has advised me that I may need to give back some shares of DMC. I don't mind doing that. However everyone needs to be aware of the situation. When Diablo did the ASICMINER trade I was a 60% shareholder and there were 2500 shares of DMC out. I traded for 4500 shares of DMC or maybe 5000 or so. That means he traded around 14,500 shares with other people, presumably for the same amount. I don't mind returning shares as long as it is done fairly and equallty among those who did trades with diablo. Secondly, since I have the 4,500 shares of DMC essentially still sitting in NYAN.B, I would want my 500+ shares of ASICMINER back. See, this is the problem; the trade was done with too many people and too long ago. Reversing the trades now is probably not feasable fairly. I have already returned the value of these trades to NYAN.B shareholders as well; my personal profit from the deal was zero since I take no management fees from NYAN.B. (really. I take a small management fee of 5% of profits from NYAN only, not the component funds).

So WRT returning ASICMINER shares, I will respect and follow Nefario's final decision without complaint. I only ask that it be done fairly and equally among everyone who traded, and that we recieve back what we traded for. If that's impossible then we just deserve an equal right to the assets of DMC like every other shareholder. Me especially, being 50% majority holder or more from day one. But that's not really relevant I guess, every shareholder is equal. So, I will leave that decision to Nefario.

P.P.S.
I have exact records for every trade done in NYAN, BMF, and CPA. I can provide and explain these records upon demand, as anyone else who did the trades would be expected to do. For one, everyone has the .CSV files available from GLBSE. So there will be no issue with fairness and accountability, on either side of this.


Snipped the rest.

If you have to return the shares I totally agree you should get back ASICMINER shares in same ratio as you traded for the DMC.  i.e. if you return 90% of the DMC you traded for then you should get back 90% of the ASICMINER shares you traded for them.  Like you, I suspect unwinding all the trades (that should never happened) won't be easy and maybe won't even be possible.
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September 11, 2012, 09:22:51 PM
 #493

The transaction that most smells of scam is this:

His current listed nav/share as of his last report was about 0.05/share.
Prior to that he issued a large chunk of shares to CPA/nyan at under 0.02 per share.

Obviously prior to that there were a lot less DMC shares - so nav/share would have been higher than the 0.05 it was after that new issue.

No, this was a trade done based on the future mHash value reported by ASICMINER. I was not the only one to do the trade. I traded for 4500 shares. Diablo traded a further 14,500 shares in the same way with other people.

Two things, Deprived; All of this is explained in my post just now, and I reported and explained this trade weeks ago in a NYAN letter to shareholders. So there is no issue, this was not a scam trade.

Second, I have responded to you numerous times on this particular issue on other threads; I will be honest, you are new here and there is nothing wrong with that but you don't know what happened, please go read the CPA letter to shareholders, and the the NYAN letter to shareholders, and do not spread rumor or innuendo about me on DMC's thread. I have posted what I felt I needed to say and I have talked extensively with Nefario on this. I will do whatever he thinks is fair. I think that should be the end of discussion about me, I am not really involved in this in any major way, Diablo traded WAY more shares with other people. I was just the only one to disclose it fairly and publicly like I would have been expected to.

I don't know who he traded the other 14,500 shares with or how he lost the rest of the company's money. I am not involved in DMC's operations.

p.s. this will (probably) be my final post on this matter. I will allow Nefario to make his decision as he sees fit. I will of course be providing full accounting to nefario upon demand, which is of course available in everyone's .CSV file. Everything will be done fairly and will full accountability on both sides. For example I don't mind returning my 4,500 shares -- they're sitting in NYAN.B right now -- as long as everyone else does. And, do I get my 500 ASICMINER back? Who knows? I just want to be treated fairly like every other person. And remember. I was a 50 or 60% majority shareholder before the ASIC trade. So I know more than anyone who lost the most money here.

"We have also obtained 4,200 shares of DMC for only 50 bitcoins in a special one-time "insider" trade with Diablo-D3."

This is a quote from YOU in your letter to Nyancat investors.

Sorry that I obviously misread it as meaning you bought 4200 shares for 50 BTC as opposed to trading ASICMINER shares for them based on projected future mining power.  No doubt that's because I'm "new" - and once my post count is up a bit I'd properly understand it.  I hope you can also understand how a noob like myself could easily misinterpret "special one-time insider deal" other than in accordance with "I was not the only one to do the trade.".
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September 11, 2012, 09:47:33 PM
 #494

Quote
(19:31:02) nefario: Diablo, are you actually doing any mining yourself? Or do you have any physical assets that belong to DMC?
(19:31:36) Diablo-D3: yes, and you cant touch them.

Since when?
Can you point me to monthly statement that lists those assets?

Anyone?

Nefario, one more thing. Can we somehow get the trade report as the full account history from GLBSE so I or anyone else can run it trough parser script for google spreadsheets written by znort987 (if I am not mistaken)
Diablo told me some bs how "Get your full account history as a CSV" in GLBSE is not working or is incomplete blaa blaa blaa.

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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September 11, 2012, 09:55:33 PM
 #495

Why is Nefario involved in this???

He's the police, the SEC, the judge, the jury, and the exchange operater??

IMO Nefario should stick to operating the exchange, the market will sort out the scammers..

Diablo definatly hasn't done the best job, but people were investing in him, and it was very apparent that he was erroding initial shareholder value to "grow" the amount of capitol that he directed, but how is that something that Nefario as the exchange operater needs to police, judge, and control???

Many peeps sold their DMC as it was obvious what Diablo was doing and got out, thats how markets are supposed to work.

Let the market work......

When a company makes a series of bad moves and their share price drops, does the NYSE step in and go over the companies books, reverse trades, investigate what happened, make a judgement to put in a new CEO of the company??  
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September 11, 2012, 10:09:53 PM
 #496

Why is Nefario involved in this???

He's the police, the SEC, the judge, the jury, and the exchange operater??

He is giving the last word to the shareholders, which makes complete sense. I for one, appreciate what he is doing and I would rather trade on a market thats "policed" to some extend. If you dont like how nefario runs the exchange, start your own. Thats how free markets work.
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September 11, 2012, 11:02:07 PM
 #497

Why is Nefario involved in this???
Because DMC shareholders, for weeks have been demanding I take action

He's the police, the SEC, the judge, the jury, and the exchange operater??

IMO Nefario should stick to operating the exchange, the market will sort out the scammers..
This is me running the exchange, this isn't a free for all, there are rules you know. Also I'm not judging anyone, DMC shareholders (as per my post) will be the ones to decide, not me.

Many peeps sold their DMC as it was obvious what Diablo was doing and got out, thats how markets are supposed to work.

Let the market work......

The company belongs to the shareholders (depending on the contract), GLBSE is not only an exchange it's also where asset contracts are listed, it's integrated, it's not a simply a market and shareholders, as outlined in the contract (which Diablo has broken on numerous occasions) have rights.

When a company makes a series of bad moves and their share price drops, does the NYSE step in and go over the companies books, reverse trades, investigate what happened, make a judgement to put in a new CEO of the company??  

When a director of a company runs it into the ground, the shareholders (to whom the company belongs) have the power to remove and replace them, the market is the method used to value a company and help it acquire capital but it doesn't run or own the company.

At the end of the day, certainly in this case the shareholders are both the judge and jury and will decide the fate of DMC.

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September 12, 2012, 12:13:36 AM
 #498

Why is Nefario involved in this???
Because DMC shareholders, for weeks have been demanding I take action

He's the police, the SEC, the judge, the jury, and the exchange operater??

IMO Nefario should stick to operating the exchange, the market will sort out the scammers..
This is me running the exchange, this isn't a free for all, there are rules you know. Also I'm not judging anyone, DMC shareholders (as per my post) will be the ones to decide, not me.

Many peeps sold their DMC as it was obvious what Diablo was doing and got out, thats how markets are supposed to work.

Let the market work......

The company belongs to the shareholders (depending on the contract), GLBSE is not only an exchange it's also where asset contracts are listed, it's integrated, it's not a simply a market and shareholders, as outlined in the contract (which Diablo has broken on numerous occasions) have rights.

When a company makes a series of bad moves and their share price drops, does the NYSE step in and go over the companies books, reverse trades, investigate what happened, make a judgement to put in a new CEO of the company??  

When a director of a company runs it into the ground, the shareholders (to whom the company belongs) have the power to remove and replace them, the market is the method used to value a company and help it acquire capital but it doesn't run or own the company.

At the end of the day, certainly in this case the shareholders are both the judge and jury and will decide the fate of DMC.


Thx for the reply. Wink

I don't agree with what your doing here, but its all new territory I guess, we will see how it plays out, lol.  People bet on Diablo, they bet wrong, end of story..  
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September 12, 2012, 01:39:12 PM
 #499

When a company makes a series of bad moves and their share price drops, does the NYSE step in and go over the companies books, reverse trades, investigate what happened, make a judgement to put in a new CEO of the company??  

What I want to see is how nefario is going to steal other assets that belong to DMC. Is he going to call up companies we do business with and demand that they play along with this farce and hand stuff over? GLBSE is not a law enforcement agency and has no authority to do this.

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September 12, 2012, 02:39:54 PM
 #500

I think, i have some words to share about Nefario.
Nefario's most high priority wish is to run an exchange in Bitcoins only, which will be equal to the fiat currency exchanges.
Running an exchange or business in Internet only, is not like a exchange or business in real.
Some times, you can't compare even apples to apples, if you got it from different country.

Everything here, in Internet & Bitcoin world, it is very easy to start & close, which cannot be possible in real world.

As my above post pointed, he has the right to control, when something bad happens.

When i failed & cant able to run DISHWARA, as a friend, he helped me to close successfully.
I thinks DISHWARA was the first to close with out any problems.

For Bitcoins sake, he has some special needs & powers to control & take decisions.
Actually he went to behind, when his wish was started gaining & showing positive results.
Some secret have to be kept secret forever, to protect the most valuable things.

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