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Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

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Author Topic: Diablo Mining Company  (Read 87277 times)
pyrkne
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September 27, 2012, 07:55:14 AM
 #761

nefario emailed me and said my account is now unlocked and also the one guy that he found that would do the audit backed out.

So, after an almost month long trip, we're exactly back to where we originally were.

Also, ABMO has shut down and has paid out a final dividend of 0.1 per share. Its sad to see Obsi go, but nefario's actions chased him off.

Current DMC holdings:
54 BTC-MINING
951 BTCMC
949.53 BTC.




GLBSE isnt entirely at fault and you know it.
Obsi was an anonymous person running  what seemed like a ponzi scheme and when called out on it he turned tail and ran. The best defence we have against someone running scams in future is for them to be known. If you havent noticed most of the remaining ponzi schemes have fled to cryptostocks most likely because the issuers are too chicken shit to have any personal responsibility to shareholders.



"When called out on it he turned tail and ran."

We only had to call him out what... five hundred times?
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EskimoBob
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September 27, 2012, 08:48:00 AM
 #762

Do any of you have older shares outstanding data (this is not the same as issued)?
GLBSE shows that DMC has 12773 shares outstanding
 Diabolo announced today:
Code:
iablo-D3 | I dunno, I bought almost 10k dmc shares back

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
DiabloD3
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September 27, 2012, 09:21:29 AM
 #763

Do any of you have older shares outstanding data (this is not the same as issued)?
GLBSE shows that DMC has 12773 shares outstanding
 Diabolo announced today:
Code:
iablo-D3 | I dunno, I bought almost 10k dmc shares back

20909 before the buyout, 12773 after. There is still a standing order for the last ~2000.

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September 27, 2012, 09:51:39 AM
 #764

Current DMC holdings:
106 BTC-MINING
1000 BTCMC
1000 ASICMINER
86.97 BTC

Total valuation: 835.50 BTC

12773 shares outstanding


Puppet
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September 27, 2012, 10:08:33 AM
 #765

Wait,  yesterday you had 949.53 BTC in "cash" on top of your BTMC shares,
and today you only have 835.50 BTC worth of assets?

Oh right, you have been repurchasing shares. An act of mercy for those who had outstanding asks, since you bought them up to 0.12 while your assets are wortrh only 835/12773 =  0.065/share.

Good job, keep it up!

BTW, right on track:
No sane investor is going to pump new money in to this and In 3 months you wont be arguing over 2000BTC anymore, but 500.
EskimoBob
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September 27, 2012, 10:21:53 AM
 #766

D3, can you please start using some type of accounting/portfolio management software so you can generate reports with proper content in the future?
Someone has to be the fist to show the way Smiley


While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
DiabloD3
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September 27, 2012, 10:27:47 AM
 #767

D3, can you please start using some type of accounting/portfolio management software so you can generate reports with proper content in the future?
Someone has to be the fist to show the way Smiley



Actually, smickles wants to have DMC as his first customer of his accounting firm. Problem is, he won't have shop setup until after the first, so we might have to suffer through my horrible monthly reports one last time.

DiabloD3
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September 27, 2012, 10:46:47 AM
 #768

you bought them up to 0.12

0.10. Some other guy is buying them past that, dunno who.

Puppet
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September 27, 2012, 11:07:06 AM
 #769

Pray tell what on earth makes you think its a good idea to buy your own shares at 50% over NAV, when you could just as well have bought more of the exact same shares DMC holds  50% cheaper?
DiabloD3
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September 27, 2012, 11:14:24 AM
 #770

Pray tell what on earth makes you think its a good idea to buy your own shares at 50% over NAV, when you could just as well have bought more of the exact same shares DMC holds  50% cheaper?

Most of them were purchased at below 0.07.

deeplink
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September 27, 2012, 12:27:11 PM
 #771

This is what I get when I use the highest bid.

Current DMC holdings:
106 BTC-MINING         @    .836     =     88.6
1000 BTCMC          @        .4         =      400
1000 ASICMINER             .103        =       103
86.97 BTC

Total valuation: 678.6 BTC

12773 shares outstanding

Nav would be about .05


However that is misleading. If you were for example going to sell your 1000 BTCMC shares at market you would only get 5.3 BTC for it.

IMO I would say this is only worth a bit more than 200 BTC or has a true nav at around .015BTC Personally I would not buy above that price assuming I wanted to buy into this.

Exactly the right conclusion.

That is why I took this chance to get out.
MoinCoin
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September 27, 2012, 12:41:26 PM
 #772

This is what I get when I use the highest bid.

Current DMC holdings:
106 BTC-MINING         @    .836     =     88.6
1000 BTCMC          @        .4         =      400
1000 ASICMINER             .103        =       103
86.97 BTC

Total valuation: 678.6 BTC

12773 shares outstanding

Nav would be about .05


However that is misleading. If you were for example going to sell your 1000 BTCMC shares at market you would only get 5.3 BTC for it.

IMO I would say this is only worth a bit more than 200 BTC or has a true nav at around .015BTC Personally I would not buy above that price assuming I wanted to buy into this.

Exactly the right conclusion.

That is why I took this chance to get out.


Sorry guys, that seems unfair:
If you think DiabloD3 overestimated value, it is not very helpful to underestimate them either:
BTC-MINING has a NAV close to 1 BTC / share
BTCMC has been traded for 0.4 to 0.6 /share in the last days and has a NAV of at least 0.3 /share

I think all known facts should be posted, so everybody can figure out how much value DMC shares have:

Asset                          market depth,           NAV,                lowest ask              My pessimistic estimate           Your estimate
106 BTC-MINING           35.77                       105                  101.76                  101.76                                  Smiley
1000 BTCMC                4.4                          300                  540                       300                                      Smiley
1000 ASICMINER           60.08                       0/unknown        114                       100                                      Smiley
86.97 BTC                   86.97                        86.97               86.97                    86.97                                   Smiley
                                                                                      0.066/share           0.046/share

Disclaimer: Quick and dirty approximated  Wink
Puppet
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September 27, 2012, 01:13:48 PM
 #773


Sorry guys, that seems unfair:
BTC-MINING has a NAV close to 1 BTC / share

Where do you get its NAV from?
All I can tell from what I read on that thread is that BTC-Mining is essentially a passthrough to amazingrando. Now I dont distrust amazingrando, but he just sells a fixed MH mining bond that IMO is grossly overvalued (~.17 BTC per MH with no upgrade path to asics).

BTC-Mining itself is this:



Before and after IPO, lol I love that picture.

Quote
BTCMC has been traded for 0.4 to 0.6 /share in the last days and has a NAV of at least 0.3 /share

Agreed. And those are shares, not bonds, as far as mining investments go, this is not a bad investment (which is why Im surprised Diablo hasnt traded it for something toxic yet).
MoinCoin
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September 27, 2012, 01:19:35 PM
 #774

BTC-MINING currently has 2369 shares on GLBSE
Namworld has loaned out 2354 BTC to Amazingrando.
If you don't trust Amazingrando you should probably value it with 0 BTC,
but then you should have sold out of DMC months ago, as this has been DMCs main asset way back since May 2012!

Bonds are not bad, only almost no one here sells bonds, mostly turds/perps ("perpetual bonds" are no "classic-bonds")
Most laughable is, that most perps on GLBSE are callable for less then their issue price.
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September 27, 2012, 02:50:10 PM
 #775

cross post from usagi thread

Im calling shenanigans.

What really happened here? First, Diablo inexplicably and indefensibly sold 4000+ DMC shares to Usagi and an even bigger amount to someone else (obsi?) at less than 10% of their market value, robbing and infuriating DMC's actual shareholders who got  wiped out and got nothing in return.

Then, when DMC got  suspended for suspected fraud, after berating Diablo for being the bloody idiot he is, Usagi inexplicably change his tune 180 degrees and began backing up Diablo as if he is the greatest CEO of all times, including presenting a "plan" that is beyond indefensible, even allowing Diablo to steal all of his shareholders coins.

Diablo predictably wins the motion against him with the help of his 2 new majority shareholders who got their shares for nothing, leaving his investors, who were the only ones to really cough up coins, completely empty handed.

So DMC gets unblocked, Obsi pays out Diablo, his majority shareholder, for one of his bonds. The same day, again inexplicably and indefensibly, Diablo spends almost every coin repurchasing his own bonds all the way up 2x his own published  NAV, even though DMC is simply a holding company holding like 3 shares. Why on earth did he overpay for his own shares like that, instead of buying more of the assets he owns?

Well, now we know. Usagi got repaid for his services;
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97178.msg1225147#msg1225147

Good job robbing DMCs shareholders blind, I hope you are all proud.

Im gonna call on Nefario to investigate this, too many things here dont make the slightest sense, unless you look at the outcome: good for Usagi, good for Diablo, probably good for Obsi, HORRIBLE for DMC investors.
nebulus
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September 27, 2012, 03:08:17 PM
 #776

Well, now we know. Usagi got repaid for his services;
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97178.msg1225147#msg1225147

You know what they say? You gotta pay your debts first, puppet...

MoinCoin
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September 27, 2012, 03:29:58 PM
 #777

20909 shares before buyback
11909 shares now

9000 shares bought back for ~ 680 or 770 BTC
0.0767 or .0856 BTC / share

DiabloD3s approximated NAV for a DMC share (my guess)
0.0726 before buyback       (54 + 951 * 0.54 + 949.53)
0.0629 or 0.0702 after buyback  (748.5 / 11909)

Edit:
Not sure about the numbers ( whats with the 86.97 BTC) Bold is more plausible
Disclaimer: Numbers have rounding and approximation errors
SebastianJu
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September 27, 2012, 04:23:11 PM
 #778

*facepalm* What a shark tanke... It really looks like glbse needs some stricter rules to protect shareholders. For example the force that ipo-price cant be changed once its set or the first share is sold. Or that an ipo cant go on forever. Maybe a month only or so.

Unfortunately a hardcoded price wouldnt be a help when simply moving shares to another account. This had to be disabled then to give more protection. But i doubt that can be done.

But when a solution could be found this could give at least some protection. The rest, regarding the investmentabilities of the securityowner, is a risk that cant be taken down.

When enforcing such a rule one cant buy himself voters anymore for cheap. So when someone is claiming to run this business one way and is doing another thing afterwards a motion would ensure that every share that can vote has the same value.

GLBSE is young... so ok... its not as secure as it could be. On the other hand it looks like its really hard to really secure it. So when someone wants to be sure he should really really only buy shares from old established projects where he knows what the past showed. But on the other hand this would be the dead to all new projects.

 

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MrTeal
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September 28, 2012, 04:39:30 PM
 #779

This thread makes me cry on the inside. Up until this last little deal with Usagi, it really looks like Diablo was trying. For those saying it doesn't matter if Diablo is an investment genius as long as he would be a good DC operator, it does when the entire DMC mining operation is an investment portfolio. This portfolio was managed with such monumental incompetence that it would have been better if the coins were kept liquid and each week 20% were sent to 1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE.
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September 28, 2012, 05:28:12 PM
 #780

I'm crossquoting this from the TYGRR delisting thread

This is starting to remind me of bitcoinica and intersango behaviour. The users dont deserve to get screwed over because the owner of a site has a hissy fit.

I hope it works out amicably and soon.

Nefario used to work for Intersango but got fired when he froze my account the first time.

I don't know if there is much more I can do until Nefario deals with this and explains his actions.

I have also been looking into some of the legal stuff and I don't know if I can accept "codes" or assets from people who I know are Americans. I might even have to check IDs and address. I let GLBSE act as the broker and the exchange before so now that they want me to make more actions than I agreed to I will have to check and see if it is in fact legal and what is the legal way to do it.

This has become a mess and I agree it is the asset holders who will be hurt most.   

Anyway if anyone know more about Americans dealing with securities directly with other Americans please let me know. Thanks.

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