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Author Topic: Diablo Mining Company  (Read 87161 times)
jav
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May 26, 2012, 10:39:23 AM
 #161

No, not "completely played off". This isn't a bank loan. I own the panels in full on day one.

It's not a loan, but the shareholders who gave you that money want something in return.

And yes, by my logic, if cost of electricity is your largest problem... then lower the cost of electricity until its no longer a problem.

But solar isn't a way to lower your cost of electricity! Solar is a way to have a very predictable cost of electricity for the next 10-15 years. So again, I'm not disagreeing with you that solar might be a good idea. It is a good idea if electricity cost is going up and that seems likely. I would just like to see the cost of solar be correctly compared to other options. (And also not claim that it is an insurance against high difficulty - it's not, unless shareholders don't care that their initial investment is managed less than optimal by having solar equipment run on an inefficient process, instead of having it sell to the grid.)

But it seems we are unable to find a common understanding. :-/ I guess we will have to agree to disagree. In any case: Good luck with the project!

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May 26, 2012, 11:17:17 AM
 #162

What if you can earn more renting out the DC for purposes other than bitcoin mining ? You might get more return for the electricity generated just by selling back to the grid...

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May 26, 2012, 02:10:01 PM
 #163

You need $10 million minimum to do ASIC right and still have to sell them with a high markup.

$10M might be the ballpark if you go for a leading edge process like 32nm, but if you settle for an older process you are between one and two orders of magnitude wrong. Let me put it this way: write me a check for $1M and Ill provide you with 5TH worth of bitcoin asics within the next 12 months.

Was thinking more like 45nm. Either way, I'm not interested in it. If someone comes up with a cost effective ASIC solution in time then I'll buy them as first gen hardware, but I don't want to run that kind of company myself.

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May 26, 2012, 02:40:24 PM
 #164

No, not "completely played off". This isn't a bank loan. I own the panels in full on day one.

It's not a loan, but the shareholders who gave you that money want something in return.

The shareholders entrusted me the money to follow the plan. This IS the plan that we all agreed to at the start of this venture.

Quote
And yes, by my logic, if cost of electricity is your largest problem... then lower the cost of electricity until its no longer a problem.

But solar isn't a way to lower your cost of electricity! Solar is a way to have a very predictable cost of electricity for the next 10-15 years. So again, I'm not disagreeing with you that solar might be a good idea. It is a good idea if electricity cost is going up and that seems likely. I would just like to see the cost of solar be correctly compared to other options. (And also not claim that it is an insurance against high difficulty - it's not, unless shareholders don't care that their initial investment is managed less than optimal by having solar equipment run on an inefficient process, instead of having it sell to the grid.)

But it seems we are unable to find a common understanding. :-/ I guess we will have to agree to disagree. In any case: Good luck with the project!

I think we're both saying the same thing but with different contexts thus different words.

The plan was designed to deal with pretty much every threat to the continued operation of the company. As I said, I am not an oracle, I cannot tell what the future is, but I can tell you with certainty that there will be situations that will be very difficult for miners. I do not know when they will happen, I do not know what they entail, but I do know what variables I can control to minimize their impact.

One of the variables that I can control is that I can pay a large sum of money now to make sure that even in the worst conditions the mining hardware is never shut off. Operational efficiency is a measurement of how many dollars per time unit I get per dollars spent on operating costs: not mh per time unit, and not BTC per time unit, and not either of those per dollar spent (that is a different efficiency calculation used for evaluating TCO and not minimum operational viability, for that you look at mh/$ and damn everything else) and this is not a fixed number.

If operational efficiency drops to a point that operating costs exceeds dollars produced, the hardware is shut off. This can happen no matter if I buy 28nm hardware and no matter if 28nm hardware is still the best hardware available. If I have to shut the hardware off because its too expensive to mine, then I am losing money because the hardware is off and cannot do anything to stop it.

Yes, that means I am spending more money up front and spending more money on infrastructure that is not mining hardware. However, anything I can do that buys me more time to not have to shut the hardware off during adverse conditions MUST be done. If I have a chance to turn known unknowns and unknown unknowns into known knowns, then I would be a fool if I do not do it. If you want to view this whole thing as prepaying electricity to get guaranteed cheaper rates, then fine, thats what it is.

Even if solar takes 10-15 years to pay off, panels are typically guaranteed for at least 20 years, and its most likely going to be 30 or more years before they start failing to the point I need to replace the entire installation. And that is just for current generation hardware: several companies are developing technology to reduce panel size (which is really the largest cost of panel manufacturing) and using manufacturing processes that are less complex and rely on fewer expensive ingredients (such as rare earth metals); next generation hardware may end up taking in the 5-10 range of payoff instead of 10-15 and use a much smaller physical space.

I really want to know why we're not seeing eye to eye on this. Am I explaining this with less clarity than I intended?

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May 26, 2012, 02:43:58 PM
 #165

What if you can earn more renting out the DC for purposes other than bitcoin mining ? You might get more return for the electricity generated just by selling back to the grid...

Actually, I've considered that. Such a thing isn't off the table. However, I would probably rent it out to other mining operations. High bandwidth things like webservers and such would be inappropriate for this facility.

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May 26, 2012, 02:56:44 PM
 #166

If you have excess land you could run alpacas on it, they are pretty much self sufficient lol.

Alpacas are naaaaasty animals. They bite and spit and smell and produce entire metric tons of shit. I mean, the shit I probably can sell to a local farmer, but the rest of that? Nothx, do not want.

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May 27, 2012, 06:46:36 AM
 #167

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=76351.0  this looks interesting and would require even less solar/wind to generate.

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May 27, 2012, 07:02:05 AM
 #168

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=76351.0  this looks interesting and would require even less solar/wind to generate.

Yeah I already saw that. I'm going to see it when I believe it. There has been several attempts at ASICs, all of them failed except for ArtForz's, and he wasn't too happy with his attempt.

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May 28, 2012, 01:26:45 PM
 #169

I've added 007 to the swap list.

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May 29, 2012, 05:51:45 AM
 #170



Don't do it man. Can't you see that this is a scam? The highest bid for DMC is 0.00000001! Great way to get nothing for something.
[/quote]

Pff.

Diablo might be a nerdy twat but he's definitely not a scammer.
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May 29, 2012, 04:52:02 PM
 #171

I've moved the bond swap table to its own dedicated Perl script: http://caspar.adterrasperaspera.com/dmc/trade/

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May 30, 2012, 05:45:27 AM
 #172

I've updated the bond swap table script. It now reacts in real time over bid/ask to adjust what I'm offering.

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May 30, 2012, 06:17:59 AM
 #173

Hey guys, I was just looking at the other mining companies on GLBSE.

DMC, at 3.5gh, is bigger than 007 (0.80gh), ABM (0.83gh), JAH (2.5gh), FPGA.CONTRACT (2.8gh), and JLP-BMD (3.36gh), and we're closing in on YABMC (5gh) and TYGRR.BOND-A (5gh).

Fuck yeah.

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May 30, 2012, 12:44:35 PM
 #174

will be fun times when you decide to cash out of these swaps ))
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May 30, 2012, 12:47:56 PM
 #175

will be fun times when you decide to cash out of these swaps ))

I won't be doing that overnight, obviously, and it may be quite some time before I decide to do that.

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June 01, 2012, 06:29:38 AM
 #176

Happy Dividend Day!
Today marks the first half a month of Diablo Mining Company's existence.

Shares sold to date: 1804
Dividends paid out today: 10.132855645 BTC
Dividends per share paid out today: 0.00561688228658537 BTC
Dividends that would have been paid out today if it was a full month: 0.0112337645731707 BTC

Dividends paid out all time: 10.132855645 BTC
Money uninvested: 0.79785902 BTC

Shares held:
97 TYGRR-TECH (7.6 mhash) = 203.70 BTC (737 mhash)
661 BMMO (1 mhash) = 231.35 BTC (661 mhash)
715 BTC-MINING (3.63 mhash) = 715.00 BTC (2595 mhash)
9 007 (1 mhash) = 2.61 BTC (9 mhash)

Total investments: 1152.66 BTC
Total hashing power: 4002 mhash (equivalent to 0.45 mhash/$)

Announcements:
Starting today, I am changing the "bonds for DMC" deal. Before I was trading 2 mhash in bonds for 1 share of DMC, now it will be 2.25 mhash per 1 share of DMC. Next month I will be changing it to 2.5 mhash per 1 share of DMC.

The bond trading chart is available at http://caspar.adterrasperaspera.com/dmc/trade/

mollison
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June 01, 2012, 06:48:07 AM
 #177

Congrats, Diablo!
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June 02, 2012, 10:43:01 AM
 #178

Starting today, I am changing the "bonds for DMC" deal. Before I was trading 2 mhash in bonds for 1 share of DMC, now it will be 2.25 mhash per 1 share of DMC. Next month I will be changing it to 2.5 mhash per 1 share of DMC.

doesn't that cause dilution to your earlier investors?
DiabloD3
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June 02, 2012, 10:49:19 AM
 #179

Starting today, I am changing the "bonds for DMC" deal. Before I was trading 2 mhash in bonds for 1 share of DMC, now it will be 2.25 mhash per 1 share of DMC. Next month I will be changing it to 2.5 mhash per 1 share of DMC.

doesn't that cause dilution to your earlier investors?

No, opposite. I require people to trade in more bonds to get the same number of DMC than before. So, if you had 2 bonds of 1mh each, I would trade 1 DMC to you. You now need 2 and a quarter bonds to get the same 1 DMC, and next month you will need 2 and a half bonds to get the same 1 DMC.

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June 02, 2012, 05:57:23 PM
 #180

Hey guys, I was just looking at the other mining companies on GLBSE.

DMC, at 3.5gh, is bigger than 007 (0.80gh), ABM (0.83gh), JAH (2.5gh), FPGA.CONTRACT (2.8gh), and JLP-BMD (3.36gh), and we're closing in on YABMC (5gh) and TYGRR.BOND-A (5gh).

Fuck yeah.

Ive added the sizes of the companies to the trade script.

Using those numbers, we're bigger than 007, ABM, JAH, and FPGA.CONTRACT, but not JLP-BMD.

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