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Author Topic: Diablo Mining Company  (Read 87312 times)
Deprived
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September 11, 2012, 08:49:24 PM
 #501

What was the rationale for that swap?  Clearly it was terrible for all existing shareholders - as it (and the other 10k or so newly issued shares) totally diluted what little value he'd still got left in the company.  Why did he need 50 BTC so badly as to totally screw over his existing shareholders?  And what blackhole did that 50 BTC vanish into?

No such swap happened. What I did swap was a 10:1 swap for ASICMINER he held because I believe ASICMINER is worth more than 0.1 in the long run, maybe over 10 BTC including dividends. I have since traded my Obsi.1mhs for 1:1 ABMO and ASICMINER for 2:1 ABMO to become owner of half of ABMO while retaining most of the future ASICMINER profit.


That makes a bit more sense except:

The nav/share of DMC at the time was over 0.05
You made a trade which valued them at under 0.015

there's ALWAYS been strong depth of ASICMINER available at .15 or lower (I've traded those myself) - so why would you issue new shares which were backed by a NAV of 0.5-1.0 (per 10) to trade for something which could be bought for .15 or lower?

DMC did not have the money to purchase them, and usagi wanted to swap them at the then current rate. If I am right about their true value, then by the time DMC could afford to buy that many they would have already gone up in value. In other words, instead of trading a few thousand shares of DMC for tens of thousands of BTCs worth of assets and dividends, we would have a tiny fraction of that and no dividends to show for it.

What was the "then current rate"?  For ASICMINER and for DMC

You traded 10 10 DMC for 1 ASICMINER (you said so just now)
You could only issue at DMC at 1 BTC each (you said so just now)

Where do you get a "Then current rate" of 10 BTC for 1 ASICMINER from?
Or even a "Then current rate" of 1 BTC for ASICMINER from?

You DO realise everyone can just look at GLBSE and SEE what price ASICMINER has been trading at?  Other than a brief spike to 0.25 (just after its IPO - i.e. well before your swap) it's been pretty much in the 0.1-0.15 range (occasionally going up briefly to 0.16 on small volume outlier trades).

SO if you told the truth about only issuing at 1 BTC per DMC you paid 60-70 times the "then current rate" for ASICMINER.
If, on the other hand, you lied about that then you ONLY paid maybe 5-7 times the "Then current rate" - which assumes DMC shares only to be worth nav/share.

You'll note that your OP says DMC sahres will be issued at 1 BTC.  Not that they'll be issued in return for a promise of 1 BTC.  Not that they'll be issued in return for a hope of 1 BTC.  To issue new shares in return for anything other than 1 BTC currency would require you to put a motion to your shareholders - as it would constitute a change in your contract.
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September 11, 2012, 08:59:34 PM
 #502

Ok so I will cut this short now.. but first let me say this. I believe in Diablo's vision. I believe that he can do this. But I also believe he cannot do it alone, and must be held responsible for breaking his contract. Diablo should have bought mining hardware by now. He has 1600 BTC in assets. He could easily buy 20 singles. But he won't. That's my primary complaint as a (former) majority shareholder. All the talk about solar panels, or building dedicated web hosting with customer's money, broke the contract. Many times Diablo said he was going to take the money and build a solar farm or a webhosting company. And I am very depressed, please believe me, I am horribly depressed to have to say this. But if Diablo has taken money from DMC as he seems to have said above, and started a web hosting company --- if he has assets gathered from DMC shareholders which he does not intend to return as a direct consequence of NEFARIO'S DECISION -- I believe he should recieve a scammer tag.

Diablo please listen to me. Let me help you. First, Apologize. Second, I believe if you share your vision.. if you just tell people what you are trying to do.. I believe, I really believe they will support you. Just tell people why you do things the way you do. Just tell people what's in your heart. I am seriously friggen depressed at this situation and not because I am a big shareholder in DMC. But because I am emotionally involved. I wanted DMC to succeed so bad and I feel like crying now that it has come to this.

Thank you for your input usagi.
I think DiabloD3 has to many visions. That's one thing that makes him unable to succed in any.

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September 11, 2012, 09:07:07 PM
 #503

p.s. this will (probably) be my final post on this matter. I will allow Nefario to make his decision as he sees fit. I will of course be providing full accounting to nefario upon demand, which is of course available in everyone's .CSV file. Everything will be done fairly and will full accountability on both sides. For example I don't mind returning my 4,500 shares -- they're sitting in NYAN.B right now -- as long as everyone else does. And, do I get my 500 ASICMINER back? Who knows? I just want to be treated fairly like every other person. And remember. I was a 50 or 60% majority shareholder before the ASIC trade. So I know more than anyone who lost the most money here.

Diablo-D3 as a major shareholder, has requested an opportunity to trade 9,290 OBSI.ABMO shares for the 5,000 ASICMINER shares we currently hold. As a reminder, we just finished trading 2 OBSI.ABMO shares for 1 ASICMINER share. Should we allow this trade to happen?


I personally do not see any reason to take a loss in trading out ASICMINER shares.
I will be voting no (with my personal shares) on this motion unless Diablo-D3 can provide some reasoning & evidence that allowing this trade is in the best interest of OBSI.ABMO shareholders.

Currently no ASICMINER shares are available and are unlikely to be.
If we go into liquidation i think we could manage to get these 500 shares to reverse the transaction.
I'd be happy to assist.

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September 11, 2012, 09:09:48 PM
 #504



POSTSCRIPT:

Nefario has advised me that I may need to give back some shares of DMC. I don't mind doing that. However everyone needs to be aware of the situation. When Diablo did the ASICMINER trade I was a 60% shareholder and there were 2500 shares of DMC out. I traded for 4500 shares of DMC or maybe 5000 or so. That means he traded around 14,500 shares with other people, presumably for the same amount. I don't mind returning shares as long as it is done fairly and equallty among those who did trades with diablo. Secondly, since I have the 4,500 shares of DMC essentially still sitting in NYAN.B, I would want my 500+ shares of ASICMINER back. See, this is the problem; the trade was done with too many people and too long ago. Reversing the trades now is probably not feasable fairly. I have already returned the value of these trades to NYAN.B shareholders as well; my personal profit from the deal was zero since I take no management fees from NYAN.B. (really. I take a small management fee of 5% of profits from NYAN only, not the component funds).

So WRT returning ASICMINER shares, I will respect and follow Nefario's final decision without complaint. I only ask that it be done fairly and equally among everyone who traded, and that we recieve back what we traded for. If that's impossible then we just deserve an equal right to the assets of DMC like every other shareholder. Me especially, being 50% majority holder or more from day one. But that's not really relevant I guess, every shareholder is equal. So, I will leave that decision to Nefario.

P.P.S.
I have exact records for every trade done in NYAN, BMF, and CPA. I can provide and explain these records upon demand, as anyone else who did the trades would be expected to do. For one, everyone has the .CSV files available from GLBSE. So there will be no issue with fairness and accountability, on either side of this.


Snipped the rest.

If you have to return the shares I totally agree you should get back ASICMINER shares in same ratio as you traded for the DMC.  i.e. if you return 90% of the DMC you traded for then you should get back 90% of the ASICMINER shares you traded for them.  Like you, I suspect unwinding all the trades (that should never happened) won't be easy and maybe won't even be possible.
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September 11, 2012, 09:22:51 PM
 #505

The transaction that most smells of scam is this:

His current listed nav/share as of his last report was about 0.05/share.
Prior to that he issued a large chunk of shares to CPA/nyan at under 0.02 per share.

Obviously prior to that there were a lot less DMC shares - so nav/share would have been higher than the 0.05 it was after that new issue.

No, this was a trade done based on the future mHash value reported by ASICMINER. I was not the only one to do the trade. I traded for 4500 shares. Diablo traded a further 14,500 shares in the same way with other people.

Two things, Deprived; All of this is explained in my post just now, and I reported and explained this trade weeks ago in a NYAN letter to shareholders. So there is no issue, this was not a scam trade.

Second, I have responded to you numerous times on this particular issue on other threads; I will be honest, you are new here and there is nothing wrong with that but you don't know what happened, please go read the CPA letter to shareholders, and the the NYAN letter to shareholders, and do not spread rumor or innuendo about me on DMC's thread. I have posted what I felt I needed to say and I have talked extensively with Nefario on this. I will do whatever he thinks is fair. I think that should be the end of discussion about me, I am not really involved in this in any major way, Diablo traded WAY more shares with other people. I was just the only one to disclose it fairly and publicly like I would have been expected to.

I don't know who he traded the other 14,500 shares with or how he lost the rest of the company's money. I am not involved in DMC's operations.

p.s. this will (probably) be my final post on this matter. I will allow Nefario to make his decision as he sees fit. I will of course be providing full accounting to nefario upon demand, which is of course available in everyone's .CSV file. Everything will be done fairly and will full accountability on both sides. For example I don't mind returning my 4,500 shares -- they're sitting in NYAN.B right now -- as long as everyone else does. And, do I get my 500 ASICMINER back? Who knows? I just want to be treated fairly like every other person. And remember. I was a 50 or 60% majority shareholder before the ASIC trade. So I know more than anyone who lost the most money here.

"We have also obtained 4,200 shares of DMC for only 50 bitcoins in a special one-time "insider" trade with Diablo-D3."

This is a quote from YOU in your letter to Nyancat investors.

Sorry that I obviously misread it as meaning you bought 4200 shares for 50 BTC as opposed to trading ASICMINER shares for them based on projected future mining power.  No doubt that's because I'm "new" - and once my post count is up a bit I'd properly understand it.  I hope you can also understand how a noob like myself could easily misinterpret "special one-time insider deal" other than in accordance with "I was not the only one to do the trade.".
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September 11, 2012, 09:47:33 PM
 #506

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(19:31:02) nefario: Diablo, are you actually doing any mining yourself? Or do you have any physical assets that belong to DMC?
(19:31:36) Diablo-D3: yes, and you cant touch them.

Since when?
Can you point me to monthly statement that lists those assets?

Anyone?

Nefario, one more thing. Can we somehow get the trade report as the full account history from GLBSE so I or anyone else can run it trough parser script for google spreadsheets written by znort987 (if I am not mistaken)
Diablo told me some bs how "Get your full account history as a CSV" in GLBSE is not working or is incomplete blaa blaa blaa.

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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September 11, 2012, 09:48:04 PM
 #507

To understand all swaps and trades IMHO its necessary,
that DiabloD3 agrees to publish his GLBSE account history
and Nefario validates its authenticy.
 Shocked
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September 11, 2012, 09:55:33 PM
 #508

Why is Nefario involved in this???

He's the police, the SEC, the judge, the jury, and the exchange operater??

IMO Nefario should stick to operating the exchange, the market will sort out the scammers..

Diablo definatly hasn't done the best job, but people were investing in him, and it was very apparent that he was erroding initial shareholder value to "grow" the amount of capitol that he directed, but how is that something that Nefario as the exchange operater needs to police, judge, and control???

Many peeps sold their DMC as it was obvious what Diablo was doing and got out, thats how markets are supposed to work.

Let the market work......

When a company makes a series of bad moves and their share price drops, does the NYSE step in and go over the companies books, reverse trades, investigate what happened, make a judgement to put in a new CEO of the company??  
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September 11, 2012, 10:06:44 PM
 #509

Why is Nefario involved in this???

He's the police, the SEC, the judge, the jury, and the exchange operater??

IMO Nefario should stick to operating the exchange, the market will sort out the scammers..

Diablo definatly hasn't done the best job, but people were investing in him, and it was very apparent that he was erroding initial shareholder value to "grow" the amount of capitol that he directed, but how is that something that Nefario as the exchange operater needs to police, judge, and control???

Many peeps sold their DMC as it was obvious what Diablo was doing and got out, thats how markets are supposed to work.

Let the market work......

When a company makes a series of bad moves and their share price drops, does the NYSE step in and go over the companies books, reverse trades, investigate what happened, make a judgement to put in a new CEO of the company??  


It's in his best interest.
We don't have a board of directors where we have a direct influence on trades.
So IMHO its the right action to at least cease DMCs trading.
Nefario is part of the market as he takes the a commision from trades.

A company at NYSE would have never been allowed to commit such swaps.
The responsible persons would have been sued for sure.
Furthermore such stocks would never have been listed at NYSE.
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September 11, 2012, 10:09:53 PM
 #510

Why is Nefario involved in this???

He's the police, the SEC, the judge, the jury, and the exchange operater??

He is giving the last word to the shareholders, which makes complete sense. I for one, appreciate what he is doing and I would rather trade on a market thats "policed" to some extend. If you dont like how nefario runs the exchange, start your own. Thats how free markets work.
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September 11, 2012, 11:02:07 PM
 #511

Why is Nefario involved in this???
Because DMC shareholders, for weeks have been demanding I take action

He's the police, the SEC, the judge, the jury, and the exchange operater??

IMO Nefario should stick to operating the exchange, the market will sort out the scammers..
This is me running the exchange, this isn't a free for all, there are rules you know. Also I'm not judging anyone, DMC shareholders (as per my post) will be the ones to decide, not me.

Many peeps sold their DMC as it was obvious what Diablo was doing and got out, thats how markets are supposed to work.

Let the market work......

The company belongs to the shareholders (depending on the contract), GLBSE is not only an exchange it's also where asset contracts are listed, it's integrated, it's not a simply a market and shareholders, as outlined in the contract (which Diablo has broken on numerous occasions) have rights.

When a company makes a series of bad moves and their share price drops, does the NYSE step in and go over the companies books, reverse trades, investigate what happened, make a judgement to put in a new CEO of the company??  

When a director of a company runs it into the ground, the shareholders (to whom the company belongs) have the power to remove and replace them, the market is the method used to value a company and help it acquire capital but it doesn't run or own the company.

At the end of the day, certainly in this case the shareholders are both the judge and jury and will decide the fate of DMC.

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September 12, 2012, 12:13:36 AM
 #512

Why is Nefario involved in this???
Because DMC shareholders, for weeks have been demanding I take action

He's the police, the SEC, the judge, the jury, and the exchange operater??

IMO Nefario should stick to operating the exchange, the market will sort out the scammers..
This is me running the exchange, this isn't a free for all, there are rules you know. Also I'm not judging anyone, DMC shareholders (as per my post) will be the ones to decide, not me.

Many peeps sold their DMC as it was obvious what Diablo was doing and got out, thats how markets are supposed to work.

Let the market work......

The company belongs to the shareholders (depending on the contract), GLBSE is not only an exchange it's also where asset contracts are listed, it's integrated, it's not a simply a market and shareholders, as outlined in the contract (which Diablo has broken on numerous occasions) have rights.

When a company makes a series of bad moves and their share price drops, does the NYSE step in and go over the companies books, reverse trades, investigate what happened, make a judgement to put in a new CEO of the company??  

When a director of a company runs it into the ground, the shareholders (to whom the company belongs) have the power to remove and replace them, the market is the method used to value a company and help it acquire capital but it doesn't run or own the company.

At the end of the day, certainly in this case the shareholders are both the judge and jury and will decide the fate of DMC.


Thx for the reply. Wink

I don't agree with what your doing here, but its all new territory I guess, we will see how it plays out, lol.  People bet on Diablo, they bet wrong, end of story..  
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September 12, 2012, 01:39:12 PM
 #513

When a company makes a series of bad moves and their share price drops, does the NYSE step in and go over the companies books, reverse trades, investigate what happened, make a judgement to put in a new CEO of the company??  

What I want to see is how nefario is going to steal other assets that belong to DMC. Is he going to call up companies we do business with and demand that they play along with this farce and hand stuff over? GLBSE is not a law enforcement agency and has no authority to do this.

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September 12, 2012, 02:06:49 PM
 #514

What I want to see is how nefario is going to steal other assets that belong to DMC. Is he going to call up companies we do business with and demand that they play along with this farce and hand stuff over? GLBSE is not a law enforcement agency and has no authority to do this.
From your point of view, i can understand this, but



https://glbse.com/info/terms

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9. The Exchange reserves the right to suspend trading of any asset, or suspend access to an asset creator's account, for failure of an asset creator to provide requested information, or in the event of suspected fraud.
He has the right to.
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September 12, 2012, 02:39:54 PM
 #515

I think, i have some words to share about Nefario.
Nefario's most high priority wish is to run an exchange in Bitcoins only, which will be equal to the fiat currency exchanges.
Running an exchange or business in Internet only, is not like a exchange or business in real.
Some times, you can't compare even apples to apples, if you got it from different country.

Everything here, in Internet & Bitcoin world, it is very easy to start & close, which cannot be possible in real world.

As my above post pointed, he has the right to control, when something bad happens.

When i failed & cant able to run DISHWARA, as a friend, he helped me to close successfully.
I thinks DISHWARA was the first to close with out any problems.

For Bitcoins sake, he has some special needs & powers to control & take decisions.
Actually he went to behind, when his wish was started gaining & showing positive results.
Some secret have to be kept secret forever, to protect the most valuable things.
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September 12, 2012, 03:11:43 PM
 #516

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9. The Exchange reserves the right to suspend trading of any asset, or suspend access to an asset creator's account, for failure of an asset creator to provide requested information, or in the event of suspected fraud.
He has the right to.

He has not suspended trading. People are free to buy and sell DMC. What he has done is locked my GLBSE account, thus preventing me from managing DMC assets and paying dividends.

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September 12, 2012, 03:13:54 PM
 #517

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suspend access to an asset creator's account,

Thats what he did.

He has not suspended trading. People are free to buy and sell DMC. What he has done is locked my GLBSE account, thus preventing me from managing DMC assets and paying dividends.

You werent going to pay dividends for 3 months. As for being unable to trade. GOOD.
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September 12, 2012, 03:14:54 PM
 #518

When a company makes a series of bad moves and their share price drops, does the NYSE step in and go over the companies books, reverse trades, investigate what happened, make a judgement to put in a new CEO of the company??  

What I want to see is how nefario is going to steal other assets that belong to DMC. Is he going to call up companies we do business with and demand that they play along with this farce and hand stuff over? GLBSE is not a law enforcement agency and has no authority to do this.

Where in your contract does it say you can swap shares for other companies for below 1btc per share value ?

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September 12, 2012, 03:19:45 PM
 #519

When a company makes a series of bad moves and their share price drops, does the NYSE step in and go over the companies books, reverse trades, investigate what happened, make a judgement to put in a new CEO of the company??  

What I want to see is how nefario is going to steal other assets that belong to DMC. Is he going to call up companies we do business with and demand that they play along with this farce and hand stuff over? GLBSE is not a law enforcement agency and has no authority to do this.

WTF are you blabbering about? Where are "the other assets" and when did you acquired those?
Not only you have skipped including earned dividends in your reports, you have excluded BTC transfers and any assets acquired outside of GLBSE.

DiabloD3, you have to understand, that this is not YOUR BTC, it's OUR coin - all the investors including you and ONLY!, if you own any shares in DMC. You can not just transfer coins out and prance to the fkn sunset with it. This is theft! As simple as that.

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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September 12, 2012, 03:22:44 PM
 #520

When a company makes a series of bad moves and their share price drops, does the NYSE step in and go over the companies books, reverse trades, investigate what happened, make a judgement to put in a new CEO of the company??  

What I want to see is how nefario is going to steal other assets that belong to DMC. Is he going to call up companies we do business with and demand that they play along with this farce and hand stuff over? GLBSE is not a law enforcement agency and has no authority to do this.

Where in your contract does it say you can swap shares for other companies for below 1btc per share value ?

I swapped shares for other companies on a ~1BTC to 1BTC basis. Do not confuse this with when I sold fixed mhash bonds at a loss to prevent bond issuers from further destroying DMC's asset value by turning fixed mhash bonds into their own personal ponzi schemes.

nefario continues to refuse to investigate bond issuers.

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