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Author Topic: Diablo Mining Company  (Read 95473 times)
DiabloD3
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February 05, 2013, 12:03:14 AM
 #821

Better news for DMC is that BTCMC have paid (or claimed to pay) the old dividend they owed - so at least it seems likely that isn't a total scam.  I still expect yochdog to claim his expenses ate up nearly all the mined coins for the last few months though.

He paid out 15 BTC, or about one month's worth. Its too late to pay it as a dividend for Jan (Feb 1st), so Feb (March 1st) should see a 7.5 BTC dividend.

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February 15, 2013, 07:09:44 PM
 #822

Update bid to 200 @ 0.36

DiabloD3, I noticed you leaving bids on some of the ASICMINER auction threads.  Seems like you've got some spare coins jingling around, is it right to assume you are bidding for your own personal investment?

What I don't understand is the following: if you are willing to bid 0.36 BTC for a share of ASICMINER, shouldn't you be willing to pay at least 0.36 * 1000 / 11,579 = 0.031 BTC/share to buy back DMC from your long beleaguered shareholders?  In fact, given the black hole that DMC has been for investors since the IPO, the dilution death spiral, the freezing of your account, suspension of DMC "operations", the closure of GBLSE, and the 3-4 month transfer limbo to BitFunder, if you are buyer of ASICMINER and have the spare change couldn't you afford to be even a little more generous with your soon-to-be-ex-shareholders, or is that you holding out for 0.02?

Even if you assume the other two DMC holdings are worthless, shouldn't DMC be worth at least that much to you in ASICMINER shares alone, unless I'm missing something?

Of course I can absolutely understand why SOMEONE ELSE wouldn't be buying up the remaining DMC shares, as there's ongoing risk of exposure to you and your willingness to do the right thing and pass along the ASICMINER shares, but I can't figure out why YOU yourself wouldn't do this?

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February 15, 2013, 07:49:49 PM
 #823

Update bid to 200 @ 0.36

DiabloD3, I noticed you leaving bids on some of the ASICMINER auction threads.  Seems like you've got some spare coins jingling around, is it right to assume you are bidding for your own personal investment?

What I don't understand is the following: if you are willing to bid 0.36 BTC for a share of ASICMINER, shouldn't you be willing to pay at least 0.36 * 1000 / 11,579 = 0.031 BTC/share to buy back DMC from your long beleaguered shareholders?  In fact, given the black hole that DMC has been for investors since the IPO, the dilution death spiral, the freezing of your account, suspension of DMC "operations", the closure of GBLSE, and the 3-4 month transfer limbo to BitFunder, if you are buyer of ASICMINER and have the spare change couldn't you afford to be even a little more generous with your soon-to-be-ex-shareholders, or is that you holding out for 0.02?

Even if you assume the other two DMC holdings are worthless, shouldn't DMC be worth at least that much to you in ASICMINER shares alone, unless I'm missing something?

Of course I can absolutely understand why SOMEONE ELSE wouldn't be buying up the remaining DMC shares, as there's ongoing risk of exposure to you and your willingness to do the right thing and pass along the ASICMINER shares, but I can't figure out why YOU yourself wouldn't do this?

Diablo believes (and I agree) that ASICMINER shares are worth significantly more than 0.36 - which is why he's buying them up.

I recently BOUGHT a bunch of DMC because of the ASICMINER it holds.  I'd definitely be very pissed off if he sold those to himself at 0.36.  As far as I knw his plan is to sell them at what he believes a fair price once proper trading on them is possible.

What I don't understand is why he's only paying half of dividends out and intending to use rest to buy back shares.  I thought DMC was in liquidation - where all proceeds should jsut be dividended out (and assets sold off) until there's no assets left.  That's only way to ensure all shareholders get the same (other than the ones than already got bought out at 0.1 leaving little for everyone else of course).

Note as well that I've offered to trade in my DMC shares for JUST the asicminer shares they own - which means I'd actually take less than the value of my shares and leave more for the others (the BTCMC have some value - there's 15 BTC from them received already).

I honestly don't know what Diablo's doing - he seems to want to shut down the company but in a non-transparent way where noone can work out who is going to get what.  I'm just hoping he doesn't do any more dumb trades and give away 95% of the 2-5% of value still left.  I took a calculated risk buying in (the assets are worth more than I paid but Diablo could do something dumb at any time) - just hope I did my math right.
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February 15, 2013, 08:25:08 PM
 #824

Update bid to 200 @ 0.36

DiabloD3, I noticed you leaving bids on some of the ASICMINER auction threads.  Seems like you've got some spare coins jingling around, is it right to assume you are bidding for your own personal investment?

What I don't understand is the following: if you are willing to bid 0.36 BTC for a share of ASICMINER, shouldn't you be willing to pay at least 0.36 * 1000 / 11,579 = 0.031 BTC/share to buy back DMC from your long beleaguered shareholders?  In fact, given the black hole that DMC has been for investors since the IPO, the dilution death spiral, the freezing of your account, suspension of DMC "operations", the closure of GBLSE, and the 3-4 month transfer limbo to BitFunder, if you are buyer of ASICMINER and have the spare change couldn't you afford to be even a little more generous with your soon-to-be-ex-shareholders, or is that you holding out for 0.02?

Even if you assume the other two DMC holdings are worthless, shouldn't DMC be worth at least that much to you in ASICMINER shares alone, unless I'm missing something?

Of course I can absolutely understand why SOMEONE ELSE wouldn't be buying up the remaining DMC shares, as there's ongoing risk of exposure to you and your willingness to do the right thing and pass along the ASICMINER shares, but I can't figure out why YOU yourself wouldn't do this?

Wow, quite the hostile tone there.

Yes, its my own personal money I am using to buy ASICMINER shares.

No, simply handing the BTC over to shareholders would not really fix the problem nefario made. Most shareholders are not willing to sell at that low of a bid and I would need to be able to buy ALL outstanding shares at that price to make it worthwhile. I also think that this is unfair to shareholders to even go down this route.

DMC is not, nor has ever, been in a death spiral. The DMC IPO never finished, and thanks to nefario's antics, it won't be in its current form. The only reason I'm buying back shares is because I want to issue corporate bonds who's contracts are backed by a real registered with the government company that pays taxes and everything. I want DMC to continue in a completely legal way, and not let nefario's bullshit undermine the company.

You call them soon-to-be-ex-shareholders, yet many of them have shown interest in continuing DMC and buying into those corporate bonds. Your claim that there is "ongoing risk of exposure to me and my willingness to do the right thing" is a strange claim. I always have been doing the right thing, even when everyone else isn't.

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February 15, 2013, 09:18:38 PM
 #825

Diablo believes (and I agree) that ASICMINER shares are worth significantly more than 0.36 - which is why he's buying them up.

I recently BOUGHT a bunch of DMC because of the ASICMINER it holds.  I'd definitely be very pissed off if he sold those to himself at 0.36.  As far as I knw his plan is to sell them at what he believes a fair price once proper trading on them is possible.

What I do with my own money is my own business. If I want to buy ASICMINER for my own ownership separate from DMC's ownership, I can.

Quote
What I don't understand is why he's only paying half of dividends out and intending to use rest to buy back shares.  I thought DMC was in liquidation - where all proceeds should jsut be dividended out (and assets sold off) until there's no assets left.  That's only way to ensure all shareholders get the same (other than the ones than already got bought out at 0.1 leaving little for everyone else of course).

Because that is the contract DMC agreed to with the shareholders.

Quote
Note as well that I've offered to trade in my DMC shares for JUST the asicminer shares they own - which means I'd actually take less than the value of my shares and leave more for the others (the BTCMC have some value - there's 15 BTC from them received already).

I've reconsidered your request for the trade. I'll trade 11 DMC for 1 ASICMINER, and I'll offer this to any shareholder. Priority will be number of shares traded. Trade will happen when the ASICMINER exchange comes online, so everyone has until then to figure out what they're going to do. Requests for trade must be made in public.

Quote
I honestly don't know what Diablo's doing - he seems to want to shut down the company but in a non-transparent way where noone can work out who is going to get what.  I'm just hoping he doesn't do any more dumb trades and give away 95% of the 2-5% of value still left.  I took a calculated risk buying in (the assets are worth more than I paid but Diablo could do something dumb at any time) - just hope I did my math right.

I had wanted to shut down the company, but the outpouring of support from he community after it came to light what nefario did to not only DMC but all Bitcoin investors changed my mind. I really do want DMC to succeed, but the only way to do this is to clean up the mess and start over, doing everything by the book. The first step to this is buying back all the shares.

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February 15, 2013, 09:40:53 PM
 #826

Diablo believes (and I agree) that ASICMINER shares are worth significantly more than 0.36 - which is why he's buying them up.

I recently BOUGHT a bunch of DMC because of the ASICMINER it holds.  I'd definitely be very pissed off if he sold those to himself at 0.36.  As far as I knw his plan is to sell them at what he believes a fair price once proper trading on them is possible.

What I do with my own money is my own business. If I want to buy ASICMINER for my own ownership separate from DMC's ownership, I can.


Think you misunderstood me there - I wasn't criticising you.

Rather I was pointing out to the previous poster than you (and I) believe ASICMINER is worth more than .36 - hence you buying more yourself and also you not selling the DMC ones that cheaply.
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February 15, 2013, 10:00:08 PM
 #827

Just admit it, you're a loser. Your company failed because of you.

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February 15, 2013, 10:05:02 PM
 #828

I've reconsidered your request for the trade. I'll trade 11 DMC for 1 ASICMINER, and I'll offer this to any shareholder. Priority will be number of shares traded. Trade will happen when the ASICMINER exchange comes online, so everyone has until then to figure out what they're going to do. Requests for trade must be made in public.

Confirming that I'll be doing this trade with whatever DMC shares I hold (for my fund) when ASICMINER becomes tradable.  It seems a fair trade - I take slightly less value than the DMC shares are worth (including giving up my portion of the 15 BTC received already from BTCMC) in return for the higher liquidity of ASICMINER shares.

Can't say for sure how many DMC shares I'll have then - but would expect it to be in the 300-500 range unless someone buys a LONG way up the DMC Ask list.
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February 15, 2013, 11:17:45 PM
 #829

I'll trade 11 DMC for 1 ASICMINER, and I'll offer this to any shareholder. Priority will be number of shares traded. Trade will happen when the ASICMINER exchange comes online, so everyone has until then to figure out what they're going to do. Requests for trade must be made in public.

Hi Diablo,

I own 110 shares of DMC and wish to trade them for 10 shares of ASICMINER, as soon as possible.

Thanks,

-iB


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February 15, 2013, 11:37:35 PM
 #830

I honestly don't know what Diablo's doing - he seems to want to shut down the company but in a non-transparent way where noone can work out who is going to get what.  I'm just hoping he doesn't do any more dumb trades and give away 95% of the 2-5% of value still left.  I took a calculated risk buying in (the assets are worth more than I paid but Diablo could do something dumb at any time) - just hope I did my math right.

Are you surprised? I actually read this entire thread... Diablo is clearly not capable of running a business, and has committed fraud at least two times in this situation. The entire time, his posts seem as if he is in a fantasy world, not acknowledging the realities of his situation at all. He got extremely lucky when GLBSE failed, and now he blames everything that happened on Nefario... when in fact he screwed over his shareholders and made his asset worthless before there was any problem with GLBSE.

He flat out stole thousands of BTC from shareholders, don't be surprised that he still has a lot of them to buy ASICMINER shares for himself. Expecting him to act rationally in any way, and/or honor any contracts he enters in to, is a very bad idea.
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February 16, 2013, 01:28:10 AM
 #831

I've reconsidered your request for the trade. I'll trade 11 DMC for 1 ASICMINER

Would you do 8 ASICMINER shares for 83 DMC shares?



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DiabloD3
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February 16, 2013, 10:04:15 AM
 #832

I've reconsidered your request for the trade. I'll trade 11 DMC for 1 ASICMINER

Would you do 8 ASICMINER shares for 83 DMC shares?

No, but I'll do it for 88. The shares are cheap on Bitfunder, get them while you still can.

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February 16, 2013, 10:25:45 AM
 #833

I honestly don't know what Diablo's doing - he seems to want to shut down the company but in a non-transparent way where noone can work out who is going to get what.  I'm just hoping he doesn't do any more dumb trades and give away 95% of the 2-5% of value still left.  I took a calculated risk buying in (the assets are worth more than I paid but Diablo could do something dumb at any time) - just hope I did my math right.

Are you surprised? I actually read this entire thread... Diablo is clearly not capable of running a business, and has committed fraud at least two times in this situation. The entire time, his posts seem as if he is in a fantasy world, not acknowledging the realities of his situation at all. He got extremely lucky when GLBSE failed, and now he blames everything that happened on Nefario... when in fact he screwed over his shareholders and made his asset worthless before there was any problem with GLBSE.

He flat out stole thousands of BTC from shareholders, don't be surprised that he still has a lot of them to buy ASICMINER shares for himself. Expecting him to act rationally in any way, and/or honor any contracts he enters in to, is a very bad idea.

Trolls like you keep trying to push that agenda, why bother? nefario in the end admitted what he did and closed GLBSE before the UK equivalent of the SEC could catch him and before anyone could sue him or press charges. I have never screwed my shareholders. You claim I've lost thousands of BTC? Somewhere between 1500-2000 BTC was originally invested into DMC, I've paid back around 750-1000 BTC, and I haven't stopped yet. Most investors have made a profit, not a loss.

Those ASICMINER shares may be worth as much as 750 BTC, so even if the other two assets are a complete loss (thanks Bitcoinica, BFL, and amazingrando), DMC ends up at least breaking even. This is why I'm willing to trade in 11 DMC for 1 ASICMINER, it pays back whos left.

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February 17, 2013, 05:09:27 AM
 #834

I've reconsidered your request for the trade. I'll trade 11 DMC for 1 ASICMINER

Would you do 8 ASICMINER shares for 83 DMC shares?

No, but I'll do it for 88. The shares are cheap on Bitfunder, get them while you still can.

77 for 7 then. Let me know how I should proceed.



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DiabloD3
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February 17, 2013, 02:58:18 PM
 #835

I've reconsidered your request for the trade. I'll trade 11 DMC for 1 ASICMINER

Would you do 8 ASICMINER shares for 83 DMC shares?

No, but I'll do it for 88. The shares are cheap on Bitfunder, get them while you still can.

77 for 7 then. Let me know how I should proceed.

I'm going to keep a list of trade offers. ASICMINER prices could peak above 1 BTC, so this is a great deal.

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February 17, 2013, 04:31:54 PM
 #836

Since nefario refused to ever release the purchase or trade logs or make them available to me, and I never kept fully detailed records, I'm going to try to reconstruct how much was put into DMC, and how much was already paid back. Without exact records, I can only approximate this the best I can.

What was sold
About 50 shares were sold at the full 1 BTC price. At the suggestions of the community and existing shareholders, and with permission with the shareholders, I started trading bonds for shares at a discount.

The first discount was 1/3rd off, slowly moving down to 2/3rds as bond prices decreased faster than I decreased the discount relative to mhash/bond valuation. Although we tripled our dividend income, the value of DMC shares dropped to around 0.50 due to the bond market collapsing under the care of nefario.

The next approximately 3000 shares where part of the original discount program, the first 250 sharers were sold around between 0.50 each, the next 1000 were traded in from between 0.40 and 0.50, the last 1750 were traded in from between 0.30 and 0.40. This totals between 1050 BTC and 1325 BTC.

(Side note: During the nefario incident, DMC held about 1543 BTC in assets (detailed in the open letter to nefario ordering him to unlock DMC's account), and had already paid out 80 BTC dividends. This means I increased the original investment 18% to 48%).

The final 17.9k were all trade-ins from ASICMINER, which were traded in at approximately 0.033 each, all traded in at the time ASICMINER was still IPOing at 0.10 before it took off to 0.15+ before GLBSE collapsed. This accounts to 591 BTC.

Approximately between 1691 and 1966 BTC were invested into DMC.

What has been paid back
At peak, we had sold 20,909 shares (out of 1,000,000). IPO was 2% finished before GLBSE collapsed. We currently have 11,579 shares still active, 9,330 shares have been purchased back.

After nefario unlocked DMC's GLBSE account, the money from Obsi closing OBSI.ABMO (having bought back the 9290 shares of that back at 0.10 each, and paid about 12 BTC in dividends per week for about 6 weeks while the account was locked) totaled about 1001 BTC.

BTCMC paid about 11 BTC per month, so about 11 BTC, during that time, and BTC-MINING paid about 0.5 per week, so about 3 BTC. About 1015 BTC was paid out to buy back 9,330 shares.

Given about 1691 to 1966 BTC were paid into DMC and about 1015 BTC have been paid back plus 90 BTC in dividends, between 586 and 861 BTC are still owed.

What DMC currently holds
Given current BTC prices of $26 USD, and BTCMC's asset value at between 1027 (BFL and Bitcoinica fully lost) and 2083 (BFL and Bitcoinica fully recovered), and BTCMC having 10,000 shares outstanding

1000 ASICMINER, valued at between 0.40 and 1.00, is worth between 400 and 1000 BTC.
106 BTC-MINING, valued at 0.04, is worth 4 BTC.
1000 BTCMC, valued at between 0.1027 and 0.2083, is worth between 103 and 208 BTC.

DMC has approximately between 507 and 1212 BTC in assets.

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February 17, 2013, 04:38:56 PM
 #837

So bottomline is that people who bought DMC shares with cash at IPO have lost the bulk of their investment, but those who got them from trading with you have broken even or made a profit?

IF the people who bought at 1.0 BTC agreed for you sell/trade more at far lower prices then they only have themselves to blame for having the value of their shares diluted down by over 90%.  Agreeing to that was sheer lunacy on their part(if they did - I wasn't watching at the time so never checked for votes on GLBSE).
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February 17, 2013, 04:45:20 PM
 #838

So bottomline is that people who bought DMC shares with cash at IPO have lost the bulk of their investment, but those who got them from trading with you have broken even or made a profit?

IF the people who bought at 1.0 BTC agreed for you sell/trade more at far lower prices then they only have themselves to blame for having the value of their shares diluted down by over 90%.  Agreeing to that was sheer lunacy on their part(if they did - I wasn't watching at the time so never checked for votes on GLBSE).

The people who bought at full price fit into two categories. 1) They believe the original plan is sound and want to invest in DMC 2.0, 2) They didn't agree with the discount plan and sold out early in the 0.90s.

GLBSE motions didn't work right yet at that time, so this was an informal motion. Almost all the original shareholders I personally knew on IRC, so it was easy to get done.

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February 17, 2013, 08:28:32 PM
 #839

So bottomline is that people who bought DMC shares with cash at IPO have lost the bulk of their investment, but those who got them from trading with you have broken even or made a profit?

IF the people who bought at 1.0 BTC agreed for you sell/trade more at far lower prices then they only have themselves to blame for having the value of their shares diluted down by over 90%.  Agreeing to that was sheer lunacy on their part(if they did - I wasn't watching at the time so never checked for votes on GLBSE).

The people who bought at full price fit into two categories. 1) They believe the original plan is sound and want to invest in DMC 2.0, 2) They didn't agree with the discount plan and sold out early in the 0.90s.

GLBSE motions didn't work right yet at that time, so this was an informal motion. Almost all the original shareholders I personally knew on IRC, so it was easy to get done.

Ones who sold out at  0.9 are the smart lucky ones. Rest of them got fucked and lost over 98% share price.  
BTW, if I recall, DMC lost more of its value than defaulted scammer Trendon Shavers pass through crap (before GLBSE closed).
Why don't you buy that crap back from me at price you sold it to me?
 

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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February 17, 2013, 09:23:41 PM
 #840

So bottomline is that people who bought DMC shares with cash at IPO have lost the bulk of their investment, but those who got them from trading with you have broken even or made a profit?

IF the people who bought at 1.0 BTC agreed for you sell/trade more at far lower prices then they only have themselves to blame for having the value of their shares diluted down by over 90%.  Agreeing to that was sheer lunacy on their part(if they did - I wasn't watching at the time so never checked for votes on GLBSE).

The people who bought at full price fit into two categories. 1) They believe the original plan is sound and want to invest in DMC 2.0, 2) They didn't agree with the discount plan and sold out early in the 0.90s.

GLBSE motions didn't work right yet at that time, so this was an informal motion. Almost all the original shareholders I personally knew on IRC, so it was easy to get done.

Ones who sold out at  0.9 are the smart lucky ones. Rest of them got fucked and lost over 98% share price.  
BTW, if I recall, DMC lost more of its value than defaulted scammer Trendon Shavers pass through crap (before GLBSE closed).
Why don't you buy that crap back from me at price you sold it to me?
 

You've refused to list a sell order on the exchange for that price, and you also have demanded to get ahead in line. Shares will be bought back according to what price they are being sold at. You threw a hissy fit on IRC because you think you should get preferential treatment over other shareholders.

You have tried to claim that 1.00 (the IPO price) to 0.03 (the floor during the nefario incident) means I lost 97% of the money put into DMC. Since virtually all shares were never even sold at full IPO price due to trading, this claim is false. The mid-mortem I wrote up above details approximately how much was put in, how much was paid out, and approximately how much the assets are valued.

When DMC finally buys back all the shares, we will most likely break even. If the minimum of 1691 BTC went in, 1105 + 90 BTC have been paid out, and our assets are at least worth 496 BTC, we break even. If the maximum of 1966 BTC went in, 1105 + 90 BTC have been paid out, and our assets are worth at least 771 BTC, we break even.

I want to make sure the remaining shareholders get as much out of these assets as possible. Neither ASICMINER nor BTCMC can be sold yet, and Namworld is still fighting amazingrando on BTC-MINING so that might not be a complete loss.

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